Are you for or against socialism for the USA?

[Hum Dinger]

As usual, Trumpbots try to propose simplistic binary possibilities.

We do not have to choose between absolute capitalism and absolute socialism. We can have both - they compliment each other more than conflict. And they completely leave out Liberalism - capitalism with regulation, government social programs and very limited socialism.

 

[Rigby5]

The only thing that can make it work is for a government to own everything, supposedly on behalf of that mysterious "community."

Therefore, Fascist, since the gov't imposes/enFORCEs its ownership with the threat or action of FORCE-

No, since government is just the collective will of the people, it does not have to own anything the people do not want their money invested in, and the use of force is restricted by the Constitution.
Government can not take from private individuals, what is legally theirs.

 

[Rigby5]

I think a lot of the socialist programs we already have in the USA are pretty good.

I am more against a lot of the looney expansive, and new full blown socialist programs the DSA support and propose.

Like what?
The only programs I know of that DSA push that we do not already have is health care and college tuition, which I think the DSA is right about.

 

[Gdjjr]

Government can not take from private individuals, what is legally theirs.

Taxes- and go from there- property (try not paying taxes) is rented on long term leases- try not paying peoperty tax- some states include certain items in your home-

 

[Rigby5]

As usual, Trumpbots try to propose simplistic binary possibilities.

We do not have to choose between absolute capitalism and absolute socialism. We can have both - they compliment each other more than conflict. And they completely leave out Liberalism - capitalism with regulation, government social programs and very limited socialism.

But likely we should no more socialism.
For example, why sell oil under shared federal land for pennies on the dollar, so that private oil companies can get rich sell the gasoline back to us?
Why not a state owned gasoline companies that can conserve and price fix.

 

[Gdjjr]

The only "property' US citizens can claim as their own is "intellectual"- the US gov't does not recognize sovereignty, at home or abroad- the US gov't ignores the constitution unless it serves *a* purpose for a sound bite or a campaign speech-

 

[Rigby5]

Government can not take from private individuals, what is legally theirs.

Taxes- and go from there- property (try not paying taxes) is rented on long term leases- try not paying peoperty tax- some states include certain items in your home-

Taxes are just paying your fair share for things like roads, defense, fire fighting, etc.
Do you get these benefits or not?
And if you get them, why should you not pay your fair share?

 

[Gdjjr]

Why not a state owned gasoline companies that can conserve and price fix.

The US, is, a State- it is a Nation- it has become what anti-federalist founders feared- despot and tyrannical from a centralized orifice, the District of Criminals- I use that with purpose.

 

[Rigby5]

The only "property' US citizens can claim as their own is "intellectual"- the US gov't does not recognize sovereignty, at home or abroad- the US gov't ignores the constitution unless it serves *a* purpose for a sound bite or a campaign speech-

Well I do agree with you the federal government is the most distant, and therefore the least under our control and the most suspect or dangerous.
The federal government is way in violation of the Constitution.
Like there should be no BATF or DEA, and things like FDA should be advisory only.

 

[Gdjjr]

Taxes are just paying your fair share for things like roads, defense, fire fighting, etc.
Do you get these benefits or not?
And if you get them, why should you not pay your fair share?

That's immaterial to what you stated- go back and read what you said and come back.
Taxes are FORCED payment, backed with the threat of FORCE, incarceration, or seizing of property by gov't., albeit legal, but when one takes what doesn't belong to him with the previous mentioned then it is theft. Period. What its used for is immaterial to how it's acquired. SMH

 

[Rigby5]

Why not a state owned gasoline companies that can conserve and price fix.

The US, is, a State- it is a Nation- it has become what anti-federalist founders feared- despot and tyrannical from a centralized orifice, the District of Criminals- I use that with purpose.

The 2 things that ruined the restraints on federal abuse was the creation of a standing mercenary military and the creation of the federal income tax. Both happened around the turn of the century.
Both need to be reverted.
Troops should come from state militias.
States should give money to the federal government, not the other way around.

 

[Rigby5]

Taxes are just paying your fair share for things like roads, defense, fire fighting, etc.
Do you get these benefits or not?
And if you get them, why should you not pay your fair share?

That's immaterial to what you stated- go back and read what you said and come back.
Taxes are FORCED payment, backed with the threat of FORCE, incarceration, or seizing of property by gov't., albeit legal, but when one takes what doesn't belong to him with the previous mentioned then it is theft. Period. What its used for is immaterial to how it's acquired. SMH

There is nothing wrong with using force.
If you go to a restaurant and eat, but then refuse to pay, then the restaurant owner is justified in using force to make you pay.

What matters is if the charges are fair and you had input or not?

 

[Gdjjr]

"Gangs", i.e., the Mafia et al, collect taxes for "protection", but that isn't legal because?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Since people here have different definitions of the word social ism maybe you should define your terms.

Are you using the actual definition in the dictionary ?

so•cial•ism sō′shə-lĭz″əm
►

• n.
  Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Thank you!
So many misinformed people.

No wonder "Socialism" is considered "ok" by so many, they have absolutely no idea what it is.
Before the post above it was hopeless.

 

[Juicey Omelette]

I think a lot of the socialist programs we already have in the USA are pretty good.

I am more against a lot of the looney expansive, and new full blown socialist programs the DSA support and propose.

Like what?
The only programs I know of that DSA push that we do not already have is health care and college tuition, which I think the DSA is right about.

It's more than just that. Their policies are bad.. your first clue as to how bad should be that Bernie, and AOC support them..

*Edit* Yeah, I read "non citizens included" under their Medicare for all plan..and that's all I need to know about how bad their policies are.

Get Involved - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Joining DSA means making a commitment to cooperation and solidarity. Not only do you help further democratic socialist ideas in the United States, you also become part of a community that shares your values.

www.dsausa.org

 

[Gdjjr]

There is nothing wrong with using force.

In self defense.

If you go to a restaurant and eat, but then refuse to pay, then the restaurant owner is justified in using force to make you pay.

You're trying to rob him- he is defending what is his-

The initiation of force is immoral. There are no ifs ands or buts-

 

[JGalt]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

just like conseratives i want a socialist police and fire department

i also want a tax funded education system so all children learn the same basics as citizens

like conservatives i have no problem with socialist roads

like conservatives i want a strong socialist funded military

i never realized just what socialists right wingers are

Where do you think all that money comes from, that pays for the roads and schools? People who have jobs, brought to us by, wait for it......

capitalism.

 

[Theowl32]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Government is socialism. We need Pareto Optimal socialism.

What?

So now we see what is being spoon fed to these devils now.

It isn't socialism, its....."pareto optimal socialism."

Pa·re·to-op·ti·mal

adjective
ECONOMICS

1. relating to or denoting a distribution of wealth such that any redistribution or other change beneficial to one individual is detrimental to one or more others.
   
   
   

 

[danielpalos]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

just like conseratives i want a socialist police and fire department

i also want a tax funded education system so all children learn the same basics as citizens

like conservatives i have no problem with socialist roads

like conservatives i want a strong socialist funded military

i never realized just what socialists right wingers are

Where do you think all that money comes from, that pays for the roads and schools? People who have jobs, brought to us by, wait for it......

capitalism.

Government created money.

 

[JGalt]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Since people here have different definitions of the word social ism maybe you should define your terms.

Are you using the actual definition in the dictionary ?

so•cial•ism sō′shə-lĭz″əm

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Incorrect definition of socialism.
The difference may seem subtle, but it is not really.
Here is a more real definition.

{...
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
...}

The idea of regulation being to prevent monopolies, apply anti trust laws, protective unions, laws against child labor, laws against slavery, etc.
Anyone who is against socialism is for slavery, feudalism, fascism, etc.

The Oxford dictionary's definition you quoted is so full of holes, it might as well be Swiss cheese. What does it mean “community as a whole”?

Who specifically owns that corner pizzeria? Workers who work there? Customers? The entire neighborhood? The entire city? The entire country?

If I am a member of this “community as a whole” but I don't work there, I don't ever buy their pizza, or say for instance that I don't even like pizza, am still a part owner? How do I exercise my ownership? How can I possibly execute my ownership over every pizza, coffee shop and restaurant that are located in my city or even in the neighborhood?

To own by “community as a whole” isn't workable proposition. The only thing that can make it work is for a government to own everything, supposedly on behalf of that mysterious "community."

And that government by necessity will have to be dictatorial, otherwise everything will fall apart before the day is over.

The definition of socialism is that anyone can start their own corner pizzeria, but you have to follow community regulations for things like health, and pay your fair share of taxes for things like streets, fire departments, etc. Socialism also means the people can start a public pizzeria with lower prices if they want, but they do not have to, and normally would not unless there was a strong need for some reason.
Capitalism has some advantages in innovation since it has a smaller decision making process.

And yet under socialism, you would have absolutely no say in the running or operation of those businesses. You get what the socialist government deems those businesses are appropriate, depending on the availability of materials and labor.

Hope you like cold, soggy pizza with ersatz cheese and no toppings because well, everyone deserves the same. And if you don't like it, well tough shit. The pizzeria down the street is serving the exact same thing.