Are you for or against socialism for the USA?

[Gdjjr]

then just saying republic usually is sufficient.

but, you didn't- words mean things or they don't.

 

[Rigby5]

All democratic republic governments are all inherently socialist by definition, meaning they are collaborative and cooperative.
Public schools, roads, police, fire departments, etc. are all inherently socialist.
If you think socialist means central instead of local, you do not know anything about socialism.
Socialism can only work if local.

The romans had most of this.......so you must think that they too were socialists?

The Romans were far more socialist than we are now.
They gave out free food to citizens.
They just stole that food from other nations.
So actually that makes them more capitalist than socialist over all.
They just pretended to be socialist locally, to fool the peasants.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Socialism is where everyone is equal, except the more equal- I think the US has been operating that ways since long before any of us were around-

Equality is not really part of socialism at all.
All socialism does is pool some resources for some joint ventures.
And all that requires is equal access.
If one does not use that equal access, that is your own fault.
For example, even if you do not drive, the roads are useful to you because you get your food from trucks using them.

But, to get to that point, there must be loss of ownership.

That's the problem with socialism. It is legal theft. That is not the purpose of society.

 

[Indeependent]

Wow. It didn't take any time for the Bolshevik Bros to jump in with "...but the US is already a socialist country..."

They were on this thread like dogs on a pork chop.

That is because if one understands what socialism is, then one realizes it is inherent to the human DNA instincts.
Do parents charge their children for food and rent in order to make a profit from them?

Wait....let me hear you say it again....

"It's not Socialism. It's Democratic Socialism...."

There is not way to have undemocratic socialism.
When it is not democratic, then it is for profit, so is capitalist fascism.
Socialism has to be cooperative and collaborative.
So has to be inherently democratic.

And each and every American is, in the end, controlled by those who provide us with the information that drives our passions.

 

[Gdjjr]

Oh, so you are for eradicating all of the free market

I don't see that in what he asked- can you point it out specifically? BTW, I RARELY, if ever agree with him- in fact I think this is the first time.

 

[Flash]

These greedy stupid uneducated Moon Bats love Socialism more than life itself because then they can get free stuff that other people have to pay for. They like other people having to work to pay their bills, being the assholes they are.

They think Socialism would work in the US even though it has failed every place else. They don't know any more about Economics than they know about History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics or the Constitution.

 

[Gdjjr]

It is legal theft.

as are taxes- which BOTH sides subscribe to

 

[anynameyouwish]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

just like conseratives i want a socialist police and fire department

i also want a tax funded education system so all children learn the same basics as citizens

like conservatives i have no problem with socialist roads

like conservatives i want a strong socialist funded military

i never realized just what socialists right wingers are

 

[Rigby5]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Since people here have different definitions of the word social ism maybe you should define your terms.

Are you using the actual definition in the dictionary ?

so•cial•ism sō′shə-lĭz″əm

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Incorrect definition of socialism.
The difference may seem subtle, but it is not really.
Here is a more real definition.

{...
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
...}

The idea of regulation being to prevent monopolies, apply anti trust laws, protective unions, laws against child labor, laws against slavery, etc.
Anyone who is against socialism is for slavery, feudalism, fascism, etc.

Take it up with the editors of the American Heritage Dictionary

Dictionaries often just list the common misconception instead of bothering to get it right with the longer explanaion.
If you want an example, look up anti-Semitism. It likely will say someone against Judaism.
But if you look up the root word, Semitic, it will say "of an Arab language group".
So clearly anyone can see that anti-Semitic does not really mean being against Judaism, but that is just the popular misconception.

 

[Gdjjr]

The Romans were far more socialist than we are now.

They also debased their money- sound familiar?

 

[Gdjjr]

i also want a tax funded education system so all children learn the same basics as citizens

That's already in play- you see where that got you-

 

[Mac1958]

We're either the Wild West or Cuba.

look art my avatar picture-

Okay, I sure did!

 

[JGalt]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Since people here have different definitions of the word social ism maybe you should define your terms.

Are you using the actual definition in the dictionary ?

so•cial•ism sō′shə-lĭz″əm

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Incorrect definition of socialism.
The difference may seem subtle, but it is not really.
Here is a more real definition.

{...
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
...}

The idea of regulation being to prevent monopolies, apply anti trust laws, protective unions, laws against child labor, laws against slavery, etc.
Anyone who is against socialism is for slavery, feudalism, fascism, etc.

The Oxford dictionary's definition you quoted is so full of holes, it might as well be Swiss cheese. What does it mean “community as a whole”?

Who specifically owns that corner pizzeria? Workers who work there? Customers? The entire neighborhood? The entire city? The entire country?

If I am a member of this “community as a whole” but I don't work there, I don't ever buy their pizza, or say for instance that I don't even like pizza, am still a part owner? How do I exercise my ownership? How can I possibly execute my ownership over every pizza, coffee shop and restaurant that are located in my city or even in the neighborhood?

To own by “community as a whole” isn't workable proposition. The only thing that can make it work is for a government to own everything, supposedly on behalf of that mysterious "community."

And that government by necessity will have to be dictatorial, otherwise everything will fall apart before the day is over.

 

[Rigby5]

We already have socialism in a blend with capitalism in our economic model. It's here in a form..by default.
Probably better you ask the question, are you for or against increasing or expanding programs that people would consider socialistic in nature. And what would those changes be.
Or creating programs like public option or a high risk pool for healthcare?

I don't hear anyone left or right proposing that the government or the state own and control the means of production.

Oh, so you are for eradicating all of the free market, which means marxism, which means the elimination of the propertied class, which means the eradication of the middle class home owners.

Got it.

You did not at all read what he wrote.
He wrote, "I don't hear anyone left or right proposing that the government or the state own and control the means of production."
So then it is pointless for you to claim he wrote the exact opposite.

And "control" does mean to own, but simply to regulate.
Do you want people to be able to sell defective or dangerous fraudulent snake oil type products or not?
And if you do believe in laws preventing the sale of dangerous frauds, then you are a socialist,

 

[Theowl32]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

You really need to learn what Socialism really is. You obviously have no idea.

I don't think they understand that this lies along a continuum. It's either/or for them. We're either the Wild West or Cuba.

And really Cuba is not socialism, but Stalinism, which is actually capitalist.
When you do not have a democratic republic that is for all, then it is for an elite subgroup of wealthy, which means capitalist.

Michael moore and bernie sanders praised how wonderful it is over there for them. You don't know your party platform and voters want pure marxism? Commie Kaepernick wore a fidel castro shirt loudly and proudly as he gets paid millions of dollars to portray a victim of evil white capitalism. That doesn't bother your types either. He even looks like Che!!!! Yeeaaah!!!!

Boy, those cubans sure are fortunate to have no free market over there.

 

[Juicey Omelette]

I think a lot of the socialist programs we already have in the USA are pretty good.

I am more against a lot of the looney expansive, and new full blown socialist programs the DSA support and propose.

 

[Gdjjr]

The only thing that can make it work is for a government to own everything, supposedly on behalf of that mysterious "community."

Therefore, Fascist, since the gov't imposes/enFORCEs its ownership with the threat or action of FORCE-

 

[Rigby5]

then just saying republic usually is sufficient.

but, you didn't- words mean things or they don't.

There are lots of fascist 3rd world countries that tack the word "Republic" on their name, so using "democratic republic" rules them out and is better. I agree that one can do even better, like representative democratic, constitutional, republic", but that really is endless, as someone can always say there are even better descriptions.

 

[danielpalos]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Government is socialism. We need Pareto Optimal socialism.

 

[Rigby5]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Since people here have different definitions of the word social ism maybe you should define your terms.

Are you using the actual definition in the dictionary ?

so•cial•ism sō′shə-lĭz″əm

Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Incorrect definition of socialism.
The difference may seem subtle, but it is not really.
Here is a more real definition.

{...
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
...}

The idea of regulation being to prevent monopolies, apply anti trust laws, protective unions, laws against child labor, laws against slavery, etc.
Anyone who is against socialism is for slavery, feudalism, fascism, etc.

The Oxford dictionary's definition you quoted is so full of holes, it might as well be Swiss cheese. What does it mean “community as a whole”?

Who specifically owns that corner pizzeria? Workers who work there? Customers? The entire neighborhood? The entire city? The entire country?

If I am a member of this “community as a whole” but I don't work there, I don't ever buy their pizza, or say for instance that I don't even like pizza, am still a part owner? How do I exercise my ownership? How can I possibly execute my ownership over every pizza, coffee shop and restaurant that are located in my city or even in the neighborhood?

To own by “community as a whole” isn't workable proposition. The only thing that can make it work is for a government to own everything, supposedly on behalf of that mysterious "community."

And that government by necessity will have to be dictatorial, otherwise everything will fall apart before the day is over.

The definition of socialism is that anyone can start their own corner pizzeria, but you have to follow community regulations for things like health, and pay your fair share of taxes for things like streets, fire departments, etc. Socialism also means the people can start a public pizzeria with lower prices if they want, but they do not have to, and normally would not unless there was a strong need for some reason.
Capitalism has some advantages in innovation since it has a smaller decision making process.