Atheists are hoping aliens from outer space will contact us...

[Boss]

I said you should make your own thread about the idea, if you want feedback. It does not pertain to this one, so you're wasting your time. I'll be willing to contribute because it sounds interesting. Just post a link here, so we can find you.

Because otherwise, you're just trolling.

Sorry, not gonna let you boss me around that way. Go fuck yourself.

My idea does pertain to this thread. I don't care if I get feedback or not. I post to inform, not because I need something. You've already contributed and I know it's interesting.

It's even more interesting to me that we both agree on alien visitors, you believe they've somehow traveled an impossible distance only to observe then mysteriously disappear without a trace... and I believe they are always present in another dimension, we just can't always see them. The reason you have to tear down my theory is because it might explain God and you don't believe in God.

Whoa, I'm not gonna boss around the Boss... That's too skeery.... Just suggesting that if you have a good idea, make a thread about it. Otherwise, it will be lost in 2 pages. I have not seen you flesh out your idea besides a general reference to other dimensions, yet.

Aliens visiting Earth may be from another planet, from our future, from another dimension, or may not exist at all.

I don't believe in aliens. I do, however, argue for the possibility, because it does make sense given ancient texts and witnesses throughout history. I also argue that if they are real, they are the basis of most of the major religions on Earth. I don't believe in "God", though I am open to a meaning of life beyond the obvious.

Like I said before, it's highly more likely that aliens are our "Gods", than some supernatural explanation for God, if God exists.

Now, I've always considered that they can eventually develop the technology to travel long distances and visit us, since I think we will eventually figure it out too, and our growth has been stunted by stupidity over and over again. However, crossing dimensions takes at least an equal amount of technology than faster-than-light travel in our dimension. Maybe it is a mixture of the two. Going into another dimension and coming back to our dimension in a different place of space-time. Breaking the light-speed barrier. A wormhole. I don't know...

There could be 11 (or less or more) different dimensions based on string theory. Question is whether those other dimensions are suitable for life, or just for quantum particles.

There's a lot to talk about here. And it has nothing to do with this thread.

So if you just want to sound like a smart-ass on a one-off post, then do it. But if you want to discuss, start a thread, I'd be into it...

Sorry, I like discussing my idea in this thread. I think it fits nicely. And now that I know that it ruffles your feathers, I'm enjoying it even more.

I have not seen you flesh out your idea besides a general reference to other dimensions, yet.

Well, there's really nothing to flesh out, it's simply a thought to consider. What we are perceiving or assuming are visitors from another planet could be aberrations from other dimensions.

Aliens visiting Earth may be from another planet, from our future, from another dimension, or may not exist at all.

Agreed!

Like I said before, it's highly more likely that aliens are our "Gods", than some supernatural explanation for God, if God exists.

Are other dimensions "supernatural" or just not fully understandable through physical sciences? I have always had a problem with the word "supernatural" because I think it often serves as a catch-all for that which we don't understand. My dimension-crossing idea offers a simple explanation for aliens, UFOs, god, spiritualism, ghosts, black magic, etc. But if you want to reject what quantum physics predicts and believe aliens are defying known physics, that's up to you.

Now, I've always considered that they can eventually develop the technology to travel long distances and visit us, since I think we will eventually figure it out too, and our growth has been stunted by stupidity over and over again. However, crossing dimensions takes at least an equal amount of technology than faster-than-light travel in our dimension. Maybe it is a mixture of the two. Going into another dimension and coming back to our dimension in a different place of space-time. Breaking the light-speed barrier. A wormhole. I don't know...

Your last three words was all you needed to say. You don't know, and neither do I. We're simply speculating based on our opinions here. I think you want to try to shoot down my idea because it could rationally explain God and that frightens you.

 

[RWS]

But you stated no tangible idea. You threw out the word "dimension" and are sitting back and waiting. You have not fleshed it out. You're merely here to argue.

 

[RWS]

I fleshed it out more for you, way more than you ever did...

 

[RWS]

We're not stupid. We have already thought about that a long time ago. You're not as smart as you think you are.

Which is probably why you avoid creating your own thread. You don't want to be the center of attention. You just want to shoot arrows at other people's ideas.

That's called a "troll", or a "hater". And that's ok, you're probably young and angry, and how you roll online. But that's not the way to roll in real life...

 

[RWS]

jus sayin

 

[Boss]

I really do wish you'd get over whatever your problem is with me. I'm not here to argue or shoot arrows at your ideas. I'm merely interjecting my opinions and observations as they relate to the OP topic. I appreciate you advising me to start a new thread but I've told you I don't want to and you need to respect that. This isn't your thread, it's not your message board and you're not even a moderator.

You don't seem to have much of an argument against what I presented and you apparently acknowledged it's at least possible. That's good enough for me. I don't have any further point to make.

But you stated no tangible idea. You threw out the word "dimension" and are sitting back and waiting.

And anyone can read my posts and see that's not what I did. So the question becomes, why do you want to lie about something so easy to prove? I very clearly outlined how quantum physics (math) predicts many dimensions we can't interact with in our 4-dimensional physical universe. Then, I introduced the possibility these "aliens" as well as other strange phenomenon, might be explained by something passing in and out from another dimension.

We're not stupid. We have already thought about that a long time ago. You're not as smart as you think you are.

I never said my idea was new or original.

I fleshed it out more for you, way more than you ever did...

Well, no... actually, you didn't. Rather than explain how "aliens" traveled here from many light years away, only to briefly visit then disappear without a trace... you simply insist that just because we can't explain it with physics doesn't mean they couldn't have figured it out. That's fine but you can make the exact same argument for God. That is to say, you just have faith. And hey... nothing wrong with faith. It's the cornerstone of human spirituality.

 

[hobelim]

Agreed.

Even so, what I have found is that those plagiarized stories conceal esoteric teaching derived from hard learned lessons of their dark and distant past that are buried and hidden through a deliberate use of figurative language designed to divert the superstitious and preserve these ancient treasures of the Jewish nation, knowledge of the mind and nature of man that surpasses even our own, in a secret and safe place out of reach and above the grasp of all those who do not think very deeply.

It is no mistake that much of what Jesus said according to NT authors would have been misunderstood as a validation of Mithraic beliefs and any number of pagan practices that insured the preservation of his teachings and revelation from God by the enemy.....

For as long as Roman subjugation of the nations persists through the church, the the hidden treasures of the kingdom of heaven, its undoing, has been quietly waiting to be rediscovered.


"The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again."


So he drove the man out and to the east of Eden he placed the cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life."

It's funny because I was trying to reply and your post was changing. So you messed me up multiple times. It's cool. I'm glad you got the "Jewish" part out of there.
They should not be blamed for anything.

Sorry about that...


Who said anything about blaming anyone? I suppose everyone has a right to keep a secret....however...

If someone discovered that the true subject of Kosher law and the intent and will of God was for people to distinguish between what teaching was clean or unclean and not about what to make for dinner but still taught their children to mess around with food then they would be guilty of perpetuating deception in the name of God which amounts to murder, infanticide, in the sight of God.

No one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel, right?

Sorry, I was kidding. Judaism is equal to the problems of other OT-based religions. Same thing, different name, and original texts changed to suit their benefit of power and greed. Kill, dominate, enslave, and grab all the wealth for the rulers.

We need to let go of that, and learn to live peacefully with everyone, regardless of their faiths.

I believe thats what the 666 mark of the beast warning in the NT is all about, 666 talents of gold, 25 tons, that Solomon took from the temple treasury every year, not to mention tolls taxes and tributes stolen from the people under the guise of a benevolent theocracy... ..........


I'm afraid everyone living peacefully together regardless of their faiths is impossible for as long as those different faiths of many nations each teach their adherents that they will one day rule the world....even atheist nations.


Fundamentalism in any such faith or belief system is bound to arise which prohibits compromise and makes it seem inevitable that there's going to be a showdown...


People on all sides who have maintained irrational beliefs and degrading practices for decades if not their entire lives are not likely to suddenly become reasonable even if when faced with complete destruction.

Exactly how I feel...

Which means it probably takes an intervention if we're not going to destroy the planet. And that's why I hope aliens are true, or even God for that matter. Something to make people stop, and listen, and then work towards mutual benefit and survival.

I don't see our future being very good, until we can get over these fundamentalist ideas.

I think a good start would be for rational people to stop promoting the bullshit that all beliefs however ridiculous are equally valid as if all truth was unknown.

I don't think any superior intelligence would intervene if we can't even do that much for ourselves.


Does a doctor try to heal a body that has no detectable signs of life?

Does anybody bother to water a dead tree?

 

[RWS]

It's funny because I was trying to reply and your post was changing. So you messed me up multiple times. It's cool. I'm glad you got the "Jewish" part out of there.
They should not be blamed for anything.

Sorry about that...


Who said anything about blaming anyone? I suppose everyone has a right to keep a secret....however...

If someone discovered that the true subject of Kosher law and the intent and will of God was for people to distinguish between what teaching was clean or unclean and not about what to make for dinner but still taught their children to mess around with food then they would be guilty of perpetuating deception in the name of God which amounts to murder, infanticide, in the sight of God.

No one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel, right?

Sorry, I was kidding. Judaism is equal to the problems of other OT-based religions. Same thing, different name, and original texts changed to suit their benefit of power and greed. Kill, dominate, enslave, and grab all the wealth for the rulers.

We need to let go of that, and learn to live peacefully with everyone, regardless of their faiths.

I believe thats what the 666 mark of the beast warning in the NT is all about, 666 talents of gold, 25 tons, that Solomon took from the temple treasury every year, not to mention tolls taxes and tributes stolen from the people under the guise of a benevolent theocracy... ..........


I'm afraid everyone living peacefully together regardless of their faiths is impossible for as long as those different faiths of many nations each teach their adherents that they will one day rule the world....even atheist nations.


Fundamentalism in any such faith or belief system is bound to arise which prohibits compromise and makes it seem inevitable that there's going to be a showdown...


People on all sides who have maintained irrational beliefs and degrading practices for decades if not their entire lives are not likely to suddenly become reasonable even if when faced with complete destruction.

Exactly how I feel...

Which means it probably takes an intervention if we're not going to destroy the planet. And that's why I hope aliens are true, or even God for that matter. Something to make people stop, and listen, and then work towards mutual benefit and survival.

I don't see our future being very good, until we can get over these fundamentalist ideas.

I think a good start would be for rational people to stop promoting the bullshit that all beliefs however ridiculous are equally valid as if all truth was unknown.

I don't think any superior intelligence would intervene if we can't even do that much for ourselves.


Does a doctor try to heal a body that has no detectable signs of life?

Does anybody bother to water a dead tree?

You're may be right. They may get so frustrated that they just say "fuck it, let 'em die".

 

[RWS]

...

But shoot arrows in this thread and others, is what you have done. You stated your purpose was to argue the point. Whether true or not. Whether you believe it or not. You want to pick the opposite side and "debate" it. Pick it apart and choose which sentences you want to argue, remove the others, just for the sole purpose of argument. That's how you have rolled. And then you change the topic when it's getting too tough for you. So you better believe I'm gonna have a problem with you when you pull those tactics.

The idea of other dimensions has been around for a long time. I've always thought of the "energy field" of the universe being in a separate dimension. That's where the big bang came from (as quantum particles), and where other quantum particles continue to pop in and out of existence from. Energy would be the other dimensions.

But only quantum particles can pop in and out of this dimension and into the (possibly various) energy dimensions. An entire spaceship, cannot go back and forth at will. Each time it is dissolved into energy, and would need to be reconstructed to its original form, from the quantum structure up. Like "Beam me up Scotty" stuff. And though it may be possible, the technology required to do so, probably surpasses other ways to travel the vastness of space.

So what you offered, is a different method of space-travel, based on Star Trek teleportation. And if true, then what is the need for spacecraft flying around (ie ETUFO's)? They can just teleport anywhere they want without need for a flying vehicle.

Regardless, either way, we need those beings to give us an intervention. Because religion is only going to lead us to self-destruction. And that's where we're headed...

All these ideas and hopes we have for future technology are worthless, once religions erase it all, again.

 

[Boss]

...

But shoot arrows in this thread and others, is what you have done. You stated your purpose was to argue the point. Whether true or not. Whether you believe it or not. You want to pick the opposite side and "debate" it. Pick it apart and choose which sentences you want to argue, remove the others, just for the sole purpose of argument. That's how you have rolled. And then you change the topic when it's getting too tough for you. So you better believe I'm gonna have a problem with you when you pull those tactics.

I have NEVER stated any such purpose and you will need to provide a link to a direct quote from me if you want to continue lobbing this accusation. I think you may have grossly misinterpreted me. I do often parse out a sentence or paragraph in a post to comment on but that is for clarity sake. It's specifically what I'm addressing. I don't change topics when things get too tough for me because things don't get too tough for me.

You have a bee in your bonnet when it comes to me personally. I don't know why, maybe I embarrassed you or hurt your feelings at some point? Maybe my resilience and persistence intimidates you? I don't really care, i just wish you could get over it and move on because it makes you look childish to character attack me and lie about things I've said.

The idea of other dimensions has been around for a long time. I've always thought of the "energy field" of the universe being in a separate dimension. That's where the big bang came from (as quantum particles), and where other quantum particles continue to pop in and out of existence from. Energy would be the other dimensions.

But only quantum particles can pop in and out of this dimension and into the (possibly various) energy dimensions. An entire spaceship, cannot go back and forth at will. Each time it is dissolved into energy, and would need to be reconstructed to its original form, from the quantum structure up. Like "Beam me up Scotty" stuff. And though it may be possible, the technology required to do so, probably surpasses other ways to travel the vastness of space.

Well, the theory has been around since about 1968 but wasn't really taken very seriously until the 1990s. Yes, the "science" support is evidenced in quantum particles and energy, that's the evidence for the prediction. You don't know what can pop into and out of our dimensions. You don't know that what you're seeing as a "spaceship" is actually a spaceship. And yes, it would appear obvious this would be technology more advanced than we understand. However, it doesn't defy quantum physics.

So what you offered, is a different method of space-travel, based on Star Trek teleportation. And if true, then what is the need for spacecraft flying around (ie ETUFO's)? They can just teleport anywhere they want without need for a flying vehicle.

Regardless, either way, we need those beings to give us an intervention. Because religion is only going to lead us to self-destruction. And that's where we're headed...

All these ideas and hopes we have for future technology are worthless, once religions erase it all, again.

Well I hate to point this out but didn't Star Trek have a spaceship? And again, how do you know that's a spaceship and not merely an extradimensional transport pod? You're making a lot of assumptions for someone who doesn't know all the answers.

Finally, I want to challenge your opinion on religion. I believe you're wrong because religion has been around a long time and technology is still advancing. Obviously, it didn't erase it. As much as you may not like religion, history shows civilizations do far worse without it. In fact, there's never been one to survive very long without it. Some of the greatest and most powerful empires fell because they lost their religious foundation. Last but not least, the father of science, the man who is thought to be the greatest scientific mind of all time, Sir Isaac Newton, was the product of a religious background, upbringing and education. He is personally responsible for writing much of the modern protestant doctrine.

The very nature of science itself, stems from an inspired human spirit in search of meaning and answers.

 

[hobelim]

Does a doctor try to heal a body that has no detectable signs of life?

Does anybody bother to water a dead tree?

You're may be right. They may get so frustrated that they just say "fuck it, let 'em die".

In one month I got rid of the three shepherds,for I had lost patience with them and they had come to abhor me. Then I said to the flock I will not fatten you anymore. Any that are to die,let them die; any that are to stray, let them stray; and the rest can devour one another.....

Then the Lord said to me, Equip yourself again as a shepherd. a worthless one; for I am about to install a shepherd in the land who will neither miss any that are lost, nor search for those who have gone astray nor heal the injured nor nurse the sickly, but will eat the flesh of fat beasts and throw away their broken bones...


zechariah 11:10-16


First I will send for many fishermen says the Lord and they will fish for them; after that I will send for many hunters and they shall hunt them out from every mountain and hill and from the crevices in the rocks, for my eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from my sight, nor is their wrongdoing concealed from me.... Jeremiah 16:16

 

[RWS]

Well I hate to point this out but didn't Star Trek have a spaceship? And again, how do you know that's a spaceship and not merely an extradimensional transport pod? You're making a lot of assumptions for someone who doesn't know all the answers.

How did the aliens make the extradimensional transport pod in our area, without travelling here first? They would need double the technology to do that. Travel here to make the pod, and then materialize here.


You don't know what can pop into and out of our dimensions. You don't know that what you're seeing as a "spaceship" is actually a spaceship. And yes, it would appear obvious this would be technology more advanced than we understand. However, it doesn't defy quantum physics.

Transporting a quantum particle such as a photon, is possible. We've done it. But to somehow "print out" a complex object on the "pod" based on quantum particles, and have it perfectly reproduce the original when printed out, is kinda hard. But still, it is an option, though not likely as an explanation of "gods" and "ufo's". Since they had to come here first to build the printing pod.


Finally, I want to challenge your opinion on religion. I believe you're wrong because religion has been around a long time and technology is still advancing.

Last but not least, the father of science, the man who is thought to be the greatest scientific mind of all time, Sir Isaac Newton, was the product of a religious background, upbringing and education. He is personally responsible for writing much of the modern protestant doctrine.

But many other great scientific minds got severely punished because they didn't adhere to the the religious doctrines of the time. Maybe he got smart. What one says, and what one believes, can often be two different things.


But you don't believe in religion anyway. You're just arguing for it. Here are some quotes by you:


This is when you first took up the fight for religion, even though you don't believe in it, just to be smart and try to make me look foolish for my diction.

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"


That's a lot of religious defending for somebody who does not believe in religion. Just to argue, because you didn't like my oxymoron reference for its failure in English, which I acknowledged.

 

[RWS]

I have no problem with people arguing ideas. But when you go the route you did, you're gonna have a lot of problems with me.

A lot of people make mistakes in diction, grammar, or punctuation. I never comment on it, or put them down.

But you chose to do that, try to make fun of the thread topic, just to be a smart-ass. You were not contributing a thing, except your own need for superiority. But you did it against the wrong person. And when I called you out on it, you just decided to take the side of religion to save face and argue that side. And you have been making these nonsensical arguments promoting religion ever since. You can't seem to let go of it. Even though you don't believe in religion.

I know you don't like to lose. And that's why I have been trying to steer you away, rather than you destroying the threads with your insecurities.

I know you want to be great, and all-powerful. But you're not, at least not yet. Not even close. You're a weakling, flexing your internet muscles and google brains.

You can stand some time to learn about things. And don't even think about comparing how many posts we have on this board...

 

[Boss]

How did theat has happened aliens make the extradimensional transport pod in our area, without travelling here first? They would need double the technology to do that. Travel here to make the pod, and then materialize here.

Transporting a quantum particle such as a photon, is possible. We've done it. But to somehow "print out" a complex object on the "pod" based on quantum particles, and have it perfectly reproduce the original when printed out, is kinda hard. But still, it is an option, though not likely as an explanation of "gods" and "ufo's". Since they had to come here first to build the printing pod.

You're not making any sense... why would they need to travel here to create something first?

Again. I'm not saying this is what has happened, I have no idea. I'm merely offering a suggestion based on our current understanding using quantum mechanics. To me, this makes at least as much (if not more) rational sense than aliens traveling an impossible amount of light years through space, undetected by any of our thousands of probes and space telescopes. It just seems to me like we would've occasionally run across a few of them in our primitive explorations.

But many other great scientific minds got severely punished because they didn't adhere to the the religious doctrines of the time. Maybe he got smart. What one says, and what one believes, can often be two different things.

Except that Newton often spoke of "a mercurial spirit coursing through our universe" which he could not define. This is why he devoted much of his time to alchemy... and he kept his work secret because it was considered heresy. The point being, Newton didn't dismiss anything.

This is when you first took up the fight for religion, even though you don't believe in it, just to be smart and try to make me look foolish for my diction.

Ahh.. I knew there must be a source of your butthurt.

Let me try and explain it to you a little slower.... I am not a practicer of any organized religion because I believe all religions are flawed because they are creations of man. I still have respect for religions because I believe they are mankind's way of spiritually connecting. I believe civilization of man would be in serious trouble without religions.

With man-made religions comes both good and bad things. I have no problem condemning the bad things but I also acknowledge the good things and I believe the beneficial good far outweighs the bad. I am a devout Spiritualist and I believe in a Spiritual Energy, which may or may not reside in another dimension. I say that "I believe" in this but it's really much more than that. I am fundamentally aware of this Energy, it affects my daily life in many ways. That's the evidence for my belief and I don't require you to believe or accept it.

And I am very smart... Mensa smart. I don't belong to the organization but I qualify.

 

[Boss]

I have no problem with people arguing ideas. But when you go the route you did, you're gonna have a lot of problems with me.

A lot of people make mistakes in diction, grammar, or punctuation. I never comment on it, or put them down.

But you chose to do that, try to make fun of the thread topic, just to be a smart-ass. You were not contributing a thing, except your own need for superiority. But you did it against the wrong person. And when I called you out on it, you just decided to take the side of religion to save face and argue that side. And you have been making these nonsensical arguments promoting religion ever since. You can't seem to let go of it. Even though you don't believe in religion.

I know you don't like to lose. And that's why I have been trying to steer you away, rather than you destroying the threads with your insecurities.

I know you want to be great, and all-powerful. But you're not, at least not yet. Not even close. You're a weakling, flexing your internet muscles and google brains.

You can stand some time to learn about things. And don't even think about comparing how many posts we have on this board...

Well, I can tell you this... diction and grammar are important on any forum. Especially when creating a thread topic because you can't change that. This is a direct reflection of the intellect you bring to the table and if you blow it before you start, people will never take you seriously. So you ought to actually thank me for making you more conscious of how you put things.

You are wrong about my motives. Just completely, factually wrong. It had nothing to do with saving face or just arguing for the sake of arguing. None of my arguments are nonsensical, I don't make nonsensical arguments. I don't mind losing but I'm not going to lose to you because I'm just way smarter.

 

[hobelim]

. I am a devout Spiritualist and I believe in a Spiritual Energy, which may or may not reside in another dimension. I say that "I believe" in this but it's really much more than that. I am fundamentally aware of this Energy, it affects my daily life in many ways. That's the evidence for my belief and I don't require you to believe or accept it.

And I am very smart... Mensa smart. I don't belong to the organization but I qualify.

lol....I suspect that you have confused 'spiritual energy' with conceit in the same way believers have confused faith with obstinate stupidity..

 

[RWS]

I too am a spiritual person. Although I may take the side of science in most aspects, I am open to a higher reality.

The thing is, that I realize that the higher reality has nothing to do with Religion. Which, boss, you seem to think as well. And in order to achieve that higher reality, we need to tone down the rhetoric that Religions promote.

So I try to tell people about the evils their religions committed, and that they still defend, and what it means. And the consequences of following those religions. Christians and Jews nowadays think that everything is honky-dory. But it's not. They just need a little prodding to go back to their roots. Which the Muslims are trying to do. And then we'll be back to all-out warfare again due to religions. Which we're already doing, to protect Israel, and the possibilities of Israeli nuclear retaliation to a bad-enough attack. So the Jews sit back nowadays, and get the Christians to fight on their behalf against the Muslims. Same thing, in different ways, has been going on for hundreds of years.

Fool us once, fool us twice, fool us three times, and then continue to fool us, and then that's when I say it's time to stop the foolishness.

You seem to agree with that.

Any "good" things that Religions have given us, would have come about without the religion. They just take credit for it, to absolve their sins.

"Goodness" among higher mammals is an evolutionary trait. Not a religious one. We can be good without religion. My argument is that we could be BETTER... without it.

 

[Boss]

I too am a spiritual person. Although I may take the side of science in most aspects, I am open to a higher reality.

I don't see "sides" here. You can acknowledge science AND acknowledge spiritual faith. One doesn't preclude the other. In fact, I would argue there is a lot of science that points to a Creator. The Anthropic Principle... Cosmological Constants, etc. I've never heard a sufficient explanation for why we have some 40-odd constants which must be precise to an incredible degree, just for a universe to exist and then for life to exist in it. There has never been any science demonstration to prove abiogenesis. It still remains a scientific fact that life comes from life. (biogenesis)

The thing is, that I realize that the higher reality has nothing to do with Religion. Which, boss, you seem to think as well. And in order to achieve that higher reality, we need to tone down the rhetoric that modern religions are promoting.

I don't think it has "nothing to do" with religion. As I said, I believe religions are a byproduct of our spiritual connection. I don't personally have a problem with "rhetoric they promote" because a lot of it is good. Christians teaching people to love one another isn't a bad thing, is it? Telling someone they are not worthless because the Savior died for their salvation, isn't a bad thing. The 10 Commandments are a pretty good guide for living a decent respectful life.

So I try to tell people about the evils of their religion, and what it means. And the consequences of following those religions. Christians and Jews nowadays think that everything is honky-dory. But it's not. They just need a little prodding to go back to their roots. Which the Muslims are trying to do. And then we'll be back to all-out warfare again due to religions. Which we're already doing, to protect Israel and the possibilities of retaliation.

Well Muslims are the exception to the rule because their religion has never been reformed. You don't hear about Buddhist suicide bombers. Hindus aren't flying planes into buildings. Christians would literally have to forsake the teachings of Jesus to do what radical Muslims are doing. If you go try to tell the Muslims about the evils of their religion, they'll cut your head off. So you need another way to change them over time and it needs to be a spiritual replacement ideology.

The consequences of following Christianity and Judaism is you are constantly persecuted for your beliefs.

Fool us once, fool us twice, fool us three times, and then continue to fool us, and then that's when I say it's time to stop the foolishness.

You seem to agree with that.

Any "good" things that Religions have given us, would have come about without the religion. They just take credit for it, to absolve their sins.

"Goodness" among higher mammals, is an evolutionary trait. Not a religious one. We can be good without religion. My argument is that we could be BETTER, without it.

I agree that we should stop fighting and allow humans to express their religious faith freely. I don't believe good things come about devoid of religion because history has proved it doesn't. There have been far more non-religious wars and death tolls than anything ever caused by religion.

 

[RWS]

I too am a spiritual person. Although I may take the side of science in most aspects, I am open to a higher reality.

I don't see "sides" here. You can acknowledge science AND acknowledge spiritual faith. One doesn't preclude the other. In fact, I would argue there is a lot of science that points to a Creator. The Anthropic Principle... Cosmological Constants, etc. I've never heard a sufficient explanation for why we have some 40-odd constants which must be precise to an incredible degree, just for a universe to exist and then for life to exist in it. There has never been any science demonstration to prove abiogenesis. It still remains a scientific fact that life comes from life. (biogenesis)

Yes you do. Stop fucking around. Biogenesis still requires abiogenesis at some point. If any of those points didn't happen in our universe, then we would not be having this discussion. But it did, and here we are...

Multi-Universes may be infinite. And if it's just a matter of probability, then in that case, the possibility of a universes like ours, is certain. And probably many, many more like ours, infinite ones. And somewhere, there's another universe, where someone like you, is arguing with someone like me. And one where I'm taking your side, and you're taking mine.

The thing is, that I realize that the higher reality has nothing to do with Religion. Which, boss, you seem to think as well. And in order to achieve that higher reality, we need to tone down the rhetoric that modern religions are promoting.

I don't think it has "nothing to do" with religion. As I said, I believe religions are a byproduct of our spiritual connection. I don't personally have a problem with "rhetoric they promote" because a lot of it is good. Christians teaching people to love one another isn't a bad thing, is it? Telling someone they are not worthless because the Savior died for their salvation, isn't a bad thing. The 10 Commandments are a pretty good guide for living a decent respectful life.

The 10 Commandments are things that followers have not followed. And those mythical commandments came from more ancient societies.

Zeitgeist about 10 commandments:


The Truth from George Carlin:


Full Zeitgeist about Jesus and what he really means (includes the 1st video in much better quality, get to 13 minutes to bypass the awful intro and get to the good stuff):

So I try to tell people about the evils of their religion, and what it means. And the consequences of following those religions. Christians and Jews nowadays think that everything is honky-dory. But it's not. They just need a little prodding to go back to their roots. Which the Muslims are trying to do. And then we'll be back to all-out warfare again due to religions. Which we're already doing, to protect Israel and the possibilities of retaliation.

Well Muslims are the exception to the rule because their religion has never been reformed. You don't hear about Buddhist suicide bombers. Hindus aren't flying planes into buildings. Christians would literally have to forsake the teachings of Jesus to do what radical Muslims are doing. If you go try to tell the Muslims about the evils of their religion, they'll cut your head off. So you need another way to change them over time and it needs to be a spiritual replacement ideology.

The consequences of following Christianity and Judaism is you are constantly persecuted for your beliefs.

I don't argue about Buddhists or Hindus. They may actually have the answer. But the OT-trilogy religions? They are all about death as the answer.

Fool us once, fool us twice, fool us three times, and then continue to fool us, and then that's when I say it's time to stop the foolishness.

You seem to agree with that.

Any "good" things that Religions have given us, would have come about without the religion. They just take credit for it, to absolve their sins.

"Goodness" among higher mammals, is an evolutionary trait. Not a religious one. We can be good without religion. My argument is that we could be BETTER, without it.

I agree that we should stop fighting and allow humans to express their religious faith freely. I don't believe good things come about devoid of religion because history has proved it doesn't. There have been far more non-religious wars and death tolls than anything ever caused by religion.

If religion was necessary to create the human race, then how did we evolve from non-religious ancestors? If goodness requires religion, then how do other non-human species do "good" things? What is your definition of "good"? Killing others to promote a Santa Claus religion?

Which non-religious wars do you mean? Socialism is a religion. Nazism is as well.

When did scientists declare war on anyone in the name of science??

 

[Boss]

Yes you do. Stop fucking around. Biogenesis still requires abiogenesis at some point.

That's a totally contradictory statement. It would be the same as saying "Theism requires Atheism at some point!"

You can BELIEVE that abiogenesis occurred but you can't prove it.

If any of those points didn't happen in our universe, then we would not be having this discussion. But it did, and here we are...

Exactly... but you have no explanation for WHY.

Multi-Universes may be infinite. And if it's just a matter of probability, then in that case, the possibility of a universes like ours, is certain.

This is convenient because it's a theory that can never be proven. In order to disprove one God, you have to create infinite universes. Interesting, isn't it? I'd love to believe in your theory but I don't have that much faith.

The 10 Commandments are things that followers have not followed.

Of course they haven't. We've all fallen short of the glory of God. No one is without sin, that's why salvation is required.

I don't argue about Buddhists or Hindus. They may actually have the answer. But the OT-trilogy religions? They are all about death as the answer.

That's your opinion, a lot of people disagree with you.

If religion was necessary to create the human race, then how did we evolve from non-religious ancestors?

The human race existed many thousands of years before the first organized religions. I've never said religion was necessary for the human race to be created. However, that said, humans have been spiritual creatures since the very first signs of civilization. That's an indisputable fact.

Sorry, but I'm not watching your anti-God videos and propaganda. These are nothing more than opinionated garbage compiled by idiots. I could present just as many videos expressing opinions of religious believers arguing the existence of their God. Let's be perfectly clear, no one has the definitive answer, if they did, we wouldn't be arguing and this thread wouldn't exist. What we have are various opinions and FAITH.