Being Catholic

[DGS49]

Many years ago, a few years after the Roe v. Wade decision, one of the New England states - I think it was Connecticut - decided to offer elective abortions to women on welfare. The department head who promoted the idea and was responsible for its implementation was a Catholic, Italian woman. The local bishop publicly stated that she was excommunicated for her public stand and her actions in office.

Her response was, "He can no more tell me I'm not Catholic than he can tell me that I'm not Italian."

As a "born & bred" Catholic, I understood exactly what she meant (although I trust she is burning in hell right now for killing all those babies).

After 12+ years of Catholic education, a lifetime of going to Mass, abstaining from meat on Fridays in Lent, and doing most of the other Catholic stuff, I think I'm pretty much "Catholic."

To illustrate, I am so neurotic about not missing Mass on Sunday, that I have often gone to churches in foreign countries (Thailand, Germany, France, Luxembourg, Costa Rica) where I didn't understand a word of what they were saying, because I am constitutionally incapable of going a Sunday without attending Mass.

But I must blushingly admit that I am a "cafeteria Catholic," the type of "Catholic" that drives Priests crazy. The expression, if you are not familiar with it, refers to people who accept some Catholic teachings and reject others, while still considering themselves "good Catholics." Picture walking down a cafeteria line where the offerings are things like, immaculate conception, virgin birth, no contraceptives, no abortion, tithe, and so on. We Cafeteria Catholics pick up the things we find palatable and leave everything else, while still considering ourselves "good Catholics." Like I say, it drives Priests nuts.

Some of the things I've declined to put on my tray are:

I don't go to confession. As an adult, I am responsible for what I do. For my purposes I don't do anything that is sinful, and if I happen to do something "bad" then I don't do it again. The idea of going to confession, having my sins forgiven and starting with a clean slate strikes me as perverse.

I don't "love" everyone, and I make no attempt to do so. It is a totally fatuous idea and frankly I wouldn't take seriously anyone who claimed to "love everyone." I treat people with respect and consideration of their humanity. We are all Children of God. That's enough.

I don't "tithe." I give my church a couple thousand dollars a year (maybe 1% of my household gross income), and I give another couple thousand to assorted charities. If you must know, I also consider that a significant portion of the taxes I pay are part of my "tithe," as they go to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc, etc,etc. If something comes up where my Church needs some more money for something special I kick in a little extra. When I'm traveling I put an equivalent amount into the collection tray at that church.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a Christian couple using "artifical birth control" to manage the size of their families or space the kids appropriately. I simply disagree with the teachings of the church, and I honestly think that the Church would change its position on BC if it were not so embarrassing to do so. ("What about the people who are now burning in hell for using BC before?")

I disagree with the teachings of the U.S. Church bishops on the death penalty. This may sound bizarre, but I think the DP should be abolished, but I don't think there is anything morally wrong with it. I just think it's stupid and counterproductive, as practiced in the U.S. today.

I am totally unconcerned with the bizarre little uniquely-Catholic beliefs that some people fret about. I don't care about the virgin birth, purgatory, papal infallibility, or whether taking communion is a form of cannibalism. Who cares? I have bigger fish to fry. Especially on Fridays, during Lent.

I am very disturbed by the decline of Catholic education in the U.S. There is simply no way for children to get a mature understanding of the Church's history, theology, and other teachings through an hour of Sunday school, even if it's continued through 12th grade. The instructors are so intent on making it enjoyable (so the kids will keep coming), that it is nothing but fluff.

Bottom line, the kids whose only exposure to the Church is through Sunday school and going to Mass with their parents will, at best, be the sort of "Catholics" who only go to church on Christmas and Easter when they are adults. Pity.

A generation from now, Catholic Churches will be mainly noteworthy for their architecture, as is the case in Europe right now.

 

[DGS49]

Did I mention, I would strongly support the addition of married priests, and women priests?

I guess I disagree with the Church on that, too.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

G-d doesn't send you to hell for killing babies.

15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
- Isaiah 13 NIV

2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
- 1 Samuel 15 NIV

For more examples of how screwed up some of the Bible is (OT and NT)

Murder in the Bible

Uses some obscure versions so suggest double-checking biblegateway.com versions if something seems impossible.

 

[hobelim]

Some of the things I've declined to put on my tray are:

I don't go to confession. As an adult, I am responsible for what I do. For my purposes I don't do anything that is sinful, and if I happen to do something "bad" then I don't do it again. The idea of going to confession, having my sins forgiven and starting with a clean slate strikes me as perverse.

I don't "love" everyone, and I make no attempt to do so. It is a totally fatuous idea and frankly I wouldn't take seriously anyone who claimed to "love everyone." I treat people with respect and consideration of their humanity. We are all Children of God. That's enough.

I don't "tithe." I give my church a couple thousand dollars a year (maybe 1% of my household gross income), and I give another couple thousand to assorted charities. If you must know, I also consider that a significant portion of the taxes I pay are part of my "tithe," as they go to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc, etc,etc. If something comes up where my Church needs some more money for something special I kick in a little extra. When I'm traveling I put an equivalent amount into the collection tray at that church.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a Christian couple using "artifical birth control" to manage the size of their families or space the kids appropriately. I simply disagree with the teachings of the church, and I honestly think that the Church would change its position on BC if it were not so embarrassing to do so. ("What about the people who are now burning in hell for using BC before?")

I disagree with the teachings of the U.S. Church bishops on the death penalty. This may sound bizarre, but I think the DP should be abolished, but I don't think there is anything morally wrong with it. I just think it's stupid and counterproductive, as practiced in the U.S. today.

I am totally unconcerned with the bizarre little uniquely-Catholic beliefs that some people fret about. I don't care about the virgin birth, purgatory, papal infallibility, or whether taking communion is a form of cannibalism. Who cares? I have bigger fish to fry. Especially on Fridays, during Lent..

Seems to me like somewhere deep inside of your soul you are struggling with Catholicism but are sill suffering from the psychological and emotional trauma of being terrified with images of torture in hell as a child and further psychologically degraded by being taught to worship a lifeless manmade cracker as if it was a god that could give spiritual life to those who eat it.

Remember, you will always retain the power of will, guaranteed by the divine, to resist remaining brainwashed for the rest of your life.


You have enough faith in the brains God gave you to question church teachings on social subjects, what in hell are you doing every Sunday on our knees, worshiping and eating god crackers?

If you really don't believe church teachings on so many subjects, how can you remain Catholic without turning into a false person?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Though Jewish I sat in on a lot of Catholic Masses since my friends growing up were Catholic. I always like the more formal nature of it all compared to Methodist services my other friends went to. Seemed more reverant to me. And later on I had a good friend who was a Franciscan monk (brown Jedi-robes and sandals n everything heh.) But as a religion, Catholicism is absolute nonsense. There's too much uniquely Catholic stuff in it over and above what the NT is. Much of what is Catholicism today isn't even in the Bible.

 

[DGS49]

Hint: Even if I didn't believe in God, I would live as though I did.

Christianity resonates with me, even though it is absurd and illogical. And Protestantism is, by definition, self-contradictory. How can you believe that the Holy Spirit continues to guide the "Church," and have every freakin' (Protestant) church in the country believe different stuff? Any church that does not have uniformity of belief cannot be "Christian."

If I cared enough to be authentic with my beliefs I would probably switch to Anglican (the American Episcopal church has become a self-parody).

People who are "devout" atheists are assholes, at least in my experience.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, DGS49. Wow!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Your comments remind me of a book a friend of mine wrote called, Through the Eye of a Jew : Volume II. He is a secular Jew who asks the question is it sacriligeous to believe that "one can commune with God without using the church ( RCC ) as a medium? The quotation he uses below is part of his arguement:

"And despite being a devout Catholic for much of his life, Michelangelo was eventually condemned for his diverging beliefs - in particular, the idea that one can commune with God without using church as medium. "

He finds the thought stunning and says for one to believe that they must go through a priest or the church to commune with God is absurd. I have to agree with him.

My friends belief is one can commune with God directly. I must agree with him. He's right.

 

[Chuckt]

Hint: Even if I didn't believe in God, I would live as though I did.

Christianity resonates with me, even though it is absurd and illogical. And Protestantism is, by definition, self-contradictory. How can you believe that the Holy Spirit continues to guide the "Church," and have every freakin' (Protestant) church in the country believe different stuff? Any church that does not have uniformity of belief cannot be "Christian."

If I cared enough to be authentic with my beliefs I would probably switch to Anglican (the American Episcopal church has become a self-parody).

People who are "devout" atheists are assholes, at least in my experience.

Let's suppose that you are right and that Protestantism should have a uniform belief system. Which opinion out of how many people would it be? And who's opinion should it be that belief becomes uniform from?

When you frame your question that way, you are assuming that a uniform way is any different than 100 or 1,000 different takes on something.

That is why God wrote the faith down. God wrote the faith down because people lie or they try to make the word say something it doesn't. The rule for our church is "say what scripture says".

 

[Chuckt]

G-d doesn't send you to hell for killing babies.

Are you sure He doesn't become the Godfather?

Matthew 18:6 ¶ But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[Mr. H.]

The word "neurotic" stands out in the OP. That's what I took away from the Church. Neurotic paranoia, self-doubt, and fear.

 

[Clement]

Let's suppose that you are right and that Protestantism should have a uniform belief system. Which opinion out of how many people would it be?

The right one. People who say "you can't know" say that because they don't know. But there is a right way. The Hebrews knew it. Many Christians know it.

 

[DGS49]

Chuckt: Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church in the future. Therefore, the true "Church" must be one that speaks with one voice. Surely the Holy Spirit wouldn't send one "church" in one direction (faith) and other "church" in another direction (good works). One of them, at least, must be wrong.

So I don't have to choose, "which one." The real Church of Christ MUST be one with uniformity of belief, because it is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Please advise which of the thousands of Protestant churches is the ONE that is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Or is it the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

(I'm joking).

 

[hobelim]

Hint: Even if I didn't believe in God, I would live as though I did.

Christianity resonates with me, even though it is absurd and illogical. And Protestantism is, by definition, self-contradictory. How can you believe that the Holy Spirit continues to guide the "Church," and have every freakin' (Protestant) church in the country believe different stuff? Any church that does not have uniformity of belief cannot be "Christian."

If I cared enough to be authentic with my beliefs I would probably switch to Anglican (the American Episcopal church has become a self-parody).

People who are "devout" atheists are assholes, at least in my experience.

However many atheists assholes there may be, some people would think that a person who claims to be Christian but doesn't care enough to be authentic with their beliefs is probably an asshole too.

 

[DGS49]

Fortunately I don't care what other people think.

 

[Indeependent]

Spiritual Self-Reliance is explicitly anti-thetical to the TNT.

Tithing is from the Jewish Scriptures and was only carried forward as a means for the Roman Empire to accumulate wealth.
Tithing is ONLY applicable to Kohanim, Levites and the Poor, NOT religious institutions.

 

[Avatar4321]

Let's suppose that you are right and that Protestantism should have a uniform belief system. Which opinion out of how many people would it be?

The right one. People who say "you can't know" say that because they don't know. But there is a right way. The Hebrews knew it. Many Christians know it.

Problem with that is if they have the correct belief, they would likely cease to be protestant.

But he poses and interesting question. And quite frankly we can't appeal to the Bible because everyone understands the same passages of scriptures so differently we may never come to a unity in faith. Certainly the Bible can be a tool to help us, but it can't be the final authority.

The only logical solution would be an appeal to God. And many, even those who believe God answers prayers, seem very relunctant to go to Him for answers. It's an odd phenomenon in my opinion.

But you are right, there is a way to know and those who claim there is no way do so simply because they don't.

 

[Avatar4321]

Fortunately I don't care what other people think.

And none of us should be worried about what other people think in our walk with God.

The only person you are accountable to, other than yourself, is God. If you trust Him and seek Him, you will find Him.

 

[Avatar4321]

Spiritual Self-Reliance is explicitly anti-thetical to the TNT.

Tithing is from the Jewish Scriptures and was only carried forward as a means for the Roman Empire to accumulate wealth.
Tithing is ONLY applicable to Kohanim, Levites and the Poor, NOT religious institutions.

As long as you believe in the Bible, you believe in Jewish scriptures. Because they all came from the Jewish people.

BTW Tithing existed before the law of Moses was put in place. Abraham paid tithes to Melchesidek so your analysis isn't 100% accurate.

 

[Chuckt]

Let's suppose that you are right and that Protestantism should have a uniform belief system. Which opinion out of how many people would it be?

The right one. People who say "you can't know" say that because they don't know. But there is a right way. The Hebrews knew it. Many Christians know it.

Problem with that is if they have the correct belief, they would likely cease to be protestant.

If I didn't have this belief, I wouldn't be anything other than a lost human being.