Biden on Gun Control

[BULLDOG]

My first gun was a BB gun I got for selling Grit Magazine door to door. My first real gun was a 410 I got for Christmas when I was 12 years old. Squirrels feared me. I'm generally against banning guns. What part of that do you want to discuss?

Oh damn I ate many of them tree rats myself! Lots of them here. Killed my first squirrel at 3-4, uncles held the gun, got lucky. BY 8-9 I was a woodchuck/groundhog eliminater and farmers loved me, 22, 222, even a 308 winnie. Shot 81 one year,,,, years before having a driver license But drove anyway) Cheif police pulled me and unc over once, I was about 13, back farm roads. "Isn't he a little young"? Unc says "he got to learn sometime" Then Chief pulls a 22 revolver and has me shoot the street sign (hit it 6 times too). My how times have changed.

About banning? WHY!!! Mostly based on looks? Fienstien defined "assualt gun" Ban sunsetted in 10 years. Senate subcomitte said "the ban was useless. Crime with so called "assualt guns" actually went up in those 10 years, like 2.6 to 2.8 %

That's a ban. They have a similar bans in the works constantly. Why if it is worthless? Look at VA, dunces.

It's about people control, not gunz control the retards.

Use the laws we already have. For instance very few report to NICS/FBI as required. Which is why people can go to a gunstore and buy, like the EX AF guy mass shooter (tx I think) He was a BCD, can't buy one but AF never reported him? Why not? One fed agency to another, take 2 minutes. People go into nutward lockups released and never reported? That's problems, bans won't solve.

Sure, I agree the database needs to be maintained better. I'm not sure how to do that. Perhaps penalties for not reporting what should be reported. I keep hearing about some nefarious ban in the works, but they never materialze. Sounds like just more fearmongering to me. Common sense gun owners (not gun nuts) will never go for a ban, but do want common sense regulations. More than 90% want universal background checks. for individual sales. If there were another way to obligate a seller to find out if a buyer is allowed to have a gun, that would be fine too, but I don't know what that might be.

My first gun was a BB gun I got for selling Grit Magazine door to door. My first real gun was a 410 I got for Christmas when I was 12 years old. Squirrels feared me. I'm generally against banning guns. What part of that do you want to discuss?

Oh damn I ate many of them tree rats myself! Lots of them here. Killed my first squirrel at 3-4, uncles held the gun, got lucky. BY 8-9 I was a woodchuck/groundhog eliminater and farmers loved me, 22, 222, even a 308 winnie. Shot 81 one year,,,, years before having a driver license But drove anyway) Cheif police pulled me and unc over once, I was about 13, back farm roads. "Isn't he a little young"? Unc says "he got to learn sometime" Then Chief pulls a 22 revolver and has me shoot the street sign (hit it 6 times too). My how times have changed.

About banning? WHY!!! Mostly based on looks? Fienstien defined "assualt gun" Ban sunsetted in 10 years. Senate subcomitte said "the ban was useless. Crime with so called "assualt guns" actually went up in those 10 years, like 2.6 to 2.8 %

That's a ban. They have a similar bans in the works constantly. Why if it is worthless? Look at VA, dunces.

It's about people control, not gunz control the retards.

Use the laws we already have. For instance very few report to NICS/FBI as required. Which is why people can go to a gunstore and buy, like the EX AF guy mass shooter (tx I think) He was a BCD, can't buy one but AF never reported him? Why not? One fed agency to another, take 2 minutes. People go into nutward lockups released and never reported? That's problems, bans won't solve.

Sure, I agree the database needs to be maintained better. I'm not sure how to do that. Perhaps penalties for not reporting what should be reported. I keep hearing about some nefarious ban in the works, but they never materialze. Sounds like just more fearmongering to me. Common sense gun owners (not gun nuts) will never go for a ban, but do want common sense regulations. More than 90% want universal background checks. for individual sales. If there were another way to obligate a seller to find out if a buyer is allowed to have a gun, that would be fine too, but I don't know what that might be.

and again, those 90% don't understand the issue....the only reason you want Universal Background Checks, since they don't stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns, is to have the ground set to demand gun registration..

That is the only reason for Universal Background checks since criminals easily get around all background checks by using straw buyers who can pass any background check, or they steal their guns....

We have some background checks now, but no national registration, right?

 

[2aguy]

I am unaware of any obligation for an individual seller to know or find out the staus of a buyer. Can you quote that rule or give a link? If that is true, it might change my mind on the subject.

I'll see if I can find it for you. Came from many many years of BATFe compliance checks in my business (yearly). Always wanted all ygunz, even personal firearms in my bound book for that reason. Always threatened me "If you sell to a pot dealer etc" I'm not lying to you, it's real but will look for some more info. I lived it as a dealer.

Bulldog is dishonest......they know what they are going to do if we give them Universal Background Checks, the anti-gun Bait and Switch...

We only want to make sure criminals can't buy guns...that's all we want...

But if you have collection of guns and you die, your widow have to pay to have background checks on each gun she tries to sell or give to family.....

If you go to a class.....and you are going to touch a gun...in the class.....you have to pay for a universal background check......

This is what they do....they increase the fees, the fines, the regulations, red tape, and hoops...then, when a normal gun owner makes an honest mistake, they pound them into sand, turn them into felons, take their guns and their right to buy, own or carry a gun forever.....

 

[2aguy]

My first gun was a BB gun I got for selling Grit Magazine door to door. My first real gun was a 410 I got for Christmas when I was 12 years old. Squirrels feared me. I'm generally against banning guns. What part of that do you want to discuss?

Oh damn I ate many of them tree rats myself! Lots of them here. Killed my first squirrel at 3-4, uncles held the gun, got lucky. BY 8-9 I was a woodchuck/groundhog eliminater and farmers loved me, 22, 222, even a 308 winnie. Shot 81 one year,,,, years before having a driver license But drove anyway) Cheif police pulled me and unc over once, I was about 13, back farm roads. "Isn't he a little young"? Unc says "he got to learn sometime" Then Chief pulls a 22 revolver and has me shoot the street sign (hit it 6 times too). My how times have changed.

About banning? WHY!!! Mostly based on looks? Fienstien defined "assualt gun" Ban sunsetted in 10 years. Senate subcomitte said "the ban was useless. Crime with so called "assualt guns" actually went up in those 10 years, like 2.6 to 2.8 %

That's a ban. They have a similar bans in the works constantly. Why if it is worthless? Look at VA, dunces.

It's about people control, not gunz control the retards.

Use the laws we already have. For instance very few report to NICS/FBI as required. Which is why people can go to a gunstore and buy, like the EX AF guy mass shooter (tx I think) He was a BCD, can't buy one but AF never reported him? Why not? One fed agency to another, take 2 minutes. People go into nutward lockups released and never reported? That's problems, bans won't solve.

Sure, I agree the database needs to be maintained better. I'm not sure how to do that. Perhaps penalties for not reporting what should be reported. I keep hearing about some nefarious ban in the works, but they never materialze. Sounds like just more fearmongering to me. Common sense gun owners (not gun nuts) will never go for a ban, but do want common sense regulations. More than 90% want universal background checks. for individual sales. If there were another way to obligate a seller to find out if a buyer is allowed to have a gun, that would be fine too, but I don't know what that might be.

My first gun was a BB gun I got for selling Grit Magazine door to door. My first real gun was a 410 I got for Christmas when I was 12 years old. Squirrels feared me. I'm generally against banning guns. What part of that do you want to discuss?

Oh damn I ate many of them tree rats myself! Lots of them here. Killed my first squirrel at 3-4, uncles held the gun, got lucky. BY 8-9 I was a woodchuck/groundhog eliminater and farmers loved me, 22, 222, even a 308 winnie. Shot 81 one year,,,, years before having a driver license But drove anyway) Cheif police pulled me and unc over once, I was about 13, back farm roads. "Isn't he a little young"? Unc says "he got to learn sometime" Then Chief pulls a 22 revolver and has me shoot the street sign (hit it 6 times too). My how times have changed.

About banning? WHY!!! Mostly based on looks? Fienstien defined "assualt gun" Ban sunsetted in 10 years. Senate subcomitte said "the ban was useless. Crime with so called "assualt guns" actually went up in those 10 years, like 2.6 to 2.8 %

That's a ban. They have a similar bans in the works constantly. Why if it is worthless? Look at VA, dunces.

It's about people control, not gunz control the retards.

Use the laws we already have. For instance very few report to NICS/FBI as required. Which is why people can go to a gunstore and buy, like the EX AF guy mass shooter (tx I think) He was a BCD, can't buy one but AF never reported him? Why not? One fed agency to another, take 2 minutes. People go into nutward lockups released and never reported? That's problems, bans won't solve.

Sure, I agree the database needs to be maintained better. I'm not sure how to do that. Perhaps penalties for not reporting what should be reported. I keep hearing about some nefarious ban in the works, but they never materialze. Sounds like just more fearmongering to me. Common sense gun owners (not gun nuts) will never go for a ban, but do want common sense regulations. More than 90% want universal background checks. for individual sales. If there were another way to obligate a seller to find out if a buyer is allowed to have a gun, that would be fine too, but I don't know what that might be.

and again, those 90% don't understand the issue....the only reason you want Universal Background Checks, since they don't stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns, is to have the ground set to demand gun registration..

That is the only reason for Universal Background checks since criminals easily get around all background checks by using straw buyers who can pass any background check, or they steal their guns....

We have some background checks now, but no national registration, right?

Because we have fought tooth and nail to prevent a national registry....biden supports one as do all the other democrats......

And you know, because you are dishonest......gun registration is a tough sell...now.....but you get universal background checks....claiming 90% of gun owners support it.....then.....criminals still get all the guns they want and need using straw buyers or stealing them.....mass public shooters still get guns because they too can pass any background check.....

Then you guys come back and say...."Hey....Universal Background Checks can't work without knowing who owns the guns in the first place......so obviously, we need gun registration to stop criminals and mass shooters.....and with this new fake poll...90% of Americans support gun registration ....."

That is the Anti-gun two step....

 

[BULLDOG]

I am unaware of any obligation for an individual seller to know or find out the staus of a buyer. Can you quote that rule or give a link? If that is true, it might change my mind on the subject.

I'll see if I can find it for you. Came from many many years of BATFe compliance checks in my business (yearly). Always wanted all ygunz, even personal firearms in my bound book for that reason. Always threatened me "If you sell to a pot dealer etc" I'm not lying to you, it's real but will look for some more info. I lived it as a dealer.

I await your link. I've looked extensively, and can't find it. I sold a couple of guns in Texas with no paperwork, no nothing. I even called the ATF to see if there was anything I needed to do. I suppose some states might require background checks for individual sales, but I haven't found them. There is certainly no federal requirement.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you're good with individual sellers selling to buyers who shouldn't be allowed to have a gun, and with no obligation to know or find out the buyer's status? You're good with that?

No I am absolutely not.

There is problems with a TOTAL universal check. Biggest is NICS can't handle what they do not, they are always down.

Would it help if I was to do a background check to sell my nephew a rifle when we got chiraq and other bad cities steal and sell? They aren't gonna do nics. Come on, how does one stop that crap?

If you know your nephew (some don't know much about their relatives) and are willing to vouch for him and accept responsibility for an illegal sale if he is found to be unable to own a gun, I see no reason why you should have to do a background check. I have no problem if a seller vouches for any buyer if he is willing to take responsibility for the sale. My problem comes when the seller knows nothing about the buyer, and there is no obligation or responsibility for the seller. to even know the buyer's name.

And that is the lie...sure...we don't mind if you know the buyer, we don't really care about that...just give us Universal Background Checks and it will all be O.K........

Then, they get put out a Universal Background Check that does even more....how do I know......?

Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.

If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

Likewise, when the friend returns the gun, another trip to the gun store is necessary, upon pain of felony.

A clever trick in HR8 effectively bans handguns for persons 18-to20.

The bill has some narrow exemptions. The minuscule exemption for self-defense does not cover stalking victims. None of the exemptions cover farming and ranching, sharing guns on almost all public and private lands, or storing guns with friends while on vacation. The limited exemption for family excludes first cousins and in-laws.


The bill authorizes unlimited fees to be imposed by
regulation.
-----

The narrowness of the self-defense exemption endangers domestic violence victims. For example, a former domestic partner threatens a woman and her children. An attack might come in the next hour, or the next month, or never. The victim and her children cannot know. Because the attack is uncertain—and is certainly not "immediate"—the woman cannot borrow a handgun from a neighbor for her defense. Many domestic violence victims do not have several hundred spare dollars so that they can buy their own gun. Sometimes, threats are manifested at night, when gun stores are not open.
-------

HR8 requires almost all firearms sales and loans to be conducted by a federally-licensed dealer. Because federal law prohibits licensed dealers from transferring handguns to persons under 21 years, HR8 prevents young adults from acquiring handguns. This is a clever way to enact a handgun ban indirectly.

HR8 would prohibit a 20-year-old woman who lives on her own from acquiring a handgun for self-defense in her home, such as by buying it from a relative or borrowing it from a friend.
-----

Exorbitant fees may be imposed by regulation

"(3)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this sub-section with regulations."

"(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (1)."

Regulators may set a minimum fee, but not "a cap on a fee." The Attorney General is allowed to require that every gun store charge a fee of $30, $50, $150, or more. Even a $20 fee can be a hard burden to a poor person.

------
Family members

You can make a "a loan or bona fide gift" to some family members. In-laws and cousins are excluded.

The family exemption vanishes if one family member pays the other in any way. If a brother trades an extra shotgun to his sister in exchange for her extra television, both of them have to go to a gun store. Their exchange will have all the fees and paperwork as if she were buying a gun from the store.

Safe storage discouraged

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period: a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a person going on a long vacation, or a person evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted neighbor or friend. This type of storage should be encouraged. Guns are less likely to be stolen by burglars, and then sold into the black market, if they are kept in an occupied home rather than left in a house that will be unoccupied.

But under HR8, neighbor A can only store neighbor B's guns if both persons go to a gun store, fill out extensive paperwork for each and every gun to be stored, pay per-gun fees to the government and the gun store, and then repeat the process when the firearms are returned. As a result, many fewer people will go through all the trouble.


So more guns will be left in unoccupied dwellings; they will be at greater risk of being stolen and thus of being supplied to the criminal black market. Discouraging safe storage is among the ways HR8 harms public safety.

When has any bill ever been passed without some changes? No reason some of that couldn't be changed dumb ass.

 

[2aguy]

So you're good with individual sellers selling to buyers who shouldn't be allowed to have a gun, and with no obligation to know or find out the buyer's status? You're good with that?

No I am absolutely not.

There is problems with a TOTAL universal check. Biggest is NICS can't handle what they do not, they are always down.

Would it help if I was to do a background check to sell my nephew a rifle when we got chiraq and other bad cities steal and sell? They aren't gonna do nics. Come on, how does one stop that crap?

If you know your nephew (some don't know much about their relatives) and are willing to vouch for him and accept responsibility for an illegal sale if he is found to be unable to own a gun, I see no reason why you should have to do a background check. I have no problem if a seller vouches for any buyer if he is willing to take responsibility for the sale. My problem comes when the seller knows nothing about the buyer, and there is no obligation or responsibility for the seller. to even know the buyer's name.

And that is the lie...sure...we don't mind if you know the buyer, we don't really care about that...just give us Universal Background Checks and it will all be O.K........

Then, they get put out a Universal Background Check that does even more....how do I know......?

Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.

If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

Likewise, when the friend returns the gun, another trip to the gun store is necessary, upon pain of felony.

A clever trick in HR8 effectively bans handguns for persons 18-to20.

The bill has some narrow exemptions. The minuscule exemption for self-defense does not cover stalking victims. None of the exemptions cover farming and ranching, sharing guns on almost all public and private lands, or storing guns with friends while on vacation. The limited exemption for family excludes first cousins and in-laws.


The bill authorizes unlimited fees to be imposed by
regulation.
-----

The narrowness of the self-defense exemption endangers domestic violence victims. For example, a former domestic partner threatens a woman and her children. An attack might come in the next hour, or the next month, or never. The victim and her children cannot know. Because the attack is uncertain—and is certainly not "immediate"—the woman cannot borrow a handgun from a neighbor for her defense. Many domestic violence victims do not have several hundred spare dollars so that they can buy their own gun. Sometimes, threats are manifested at night, when gun stores are not open.
-------

HR8 requires almost all firearms sales and loans to be conducted by a federally-licensed dealer. Because federal law prohibits licensed dealers from transferring handguns to persons under 21 years, HR8 prevents young adults from acquiring handguns. This is a clever way to enact a handgun ban indirectly.

HR8 would prohibit a 20-year-old woman who lives on her own from acquiring a handgun for self-defense in her home, such as by buying it from a relative or borrowing it from a friend.
-----

Exorbitant fees may be imposed by regulation

"(3)(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Attorney General may implement this sub-section with regulations."

"(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (1)."

Regulators may set a minimum fee, but not "a cap on a fee." The Attorney General is allowed to require that every gun store charge a fee of $30, $50, $150, or more. Even a $20 fee can be a hard burden to a poor person.

------
Family members

You can make a "a loan or bona fide gift" to some family members. In-laws and cousins are excluded.

The family exemption vanishes if one family member pays the other in any way. If a brother trades an extra shotgun to his sister in exchange for her extra television, both of them have to go to a gun store. Their exchange will have all the fees and paperwork as if she were buying a gun from the store.

Safe storage discouraged

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period: a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a person going on a long vacation, or a person evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted neighbor or friend. This type of storage should be encouraged. Guns are less likely to be stolen by burglars, and then sold into the black market, if they are kept in an occupied home rather than left in a house that will be unoccupied.

But under HR8, neighbor A can only store neighbor B's guns if both persons go to a gun store, fill out extensive paperwork for each and every gun to be stored, pay per-gun fees to the government and the gun store, and then repeat the process when the firearms are returned. As a result, many fewer people will go through all the trouble.


So more guns will be left in unoccupied dwellings; they will be at greater risk of being stolen and thus of being supplied to the criminal black market. Discouraging safe storage is among the ways HR8 harms public safety.

When has any bill ever been passed without some changes? No reason some of that couldn't be changed dumb ass.

Oh, we know it will be changed........it will go from "we just want universal background checks to stop criminals..." to..." if you give a gun to a family member without paying for a background check you will both be felons....."

We know how you asshats work.....

 

[2aguy]

I am unaware of any obligation for an individual seller to know or find out the staus of a buyer. Can you quote that rule or give a link? If that is true, it might change my mind on the subject.

I'll see if I can find it for you. Came from many many years of BATFe compliance checks in my business (yearly). Always wanted all ygunz, even personal firearms in my bound book for that reason. Always threatened me "If you sell to a pot dealer etc" I'm not lying to you, it's real but will look for some more info. I lived it as a dealer.

This is what bulldog wants.....couldn't care less about stopping criminals...


Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.

If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

 

[2aguy]

I am unaware of any obligation for an individual seller to know or find out the staus of a buyer. Can you quote that rule or give a link? If that is true, it might change my mind on the subject.

I'll see if I can find it for you. Came from many many years of BATFe compliance checks in my business (yearly). Always wanted all ygunz, even personal firearms in my bound book for that reason. Always threatened me "If you sell to a pot dealer etc" I'm not lying to you, it's real but will look for some more info. I lived it as a dealer.

This is what Mayor bloomberg pushed.......and the democrat party is completely behind this...

They want to increase the legal peril for normal gun owners for innocent activity......so that accidental non-compliance becomes a felony conviction.....

Is this what you understand when you hear Universal Background Check?

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory. For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.

 

[Shawnee_b]

If you know your nephew (some don't know much about their relatives) and are willing to vouch for him and accept responsibility for an illegal sale if he is found to be unable to own a gun, I see no reason why you should have to do a background check. I have no problem if a seller vouches for any buyer if he is willing to take responsibility for the sale. My problem comes when the seller knows nothing about the buyer, and there is no obligation or responsibility for the seller. to even know the buyer's name.

Yes, I know him. Private sales can get very complicated. This isn't what I was looking for but a taste. I'll keep digging. This one doesn't seem to hold a seller responsible but under BATFe eyes, one is. Note the could be illegal, it's there.


Under federal law, certain individuals such as convicted felons and out-of-state residents are not allowed to buy guns. A private transaction could become illegal if the buyer falls into one of those categories, or fails to meet other criteria.

But the seller is under no obligation to ask about those things. So long as a private seller does not knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person, they are not breaking federal law.

more here What Makes A Gun Sale Private? | Guns & America

 

[BULLDOG]

If you know your nephew (some don't know much about their relatives) and are willing to vouch for him and accept responsibility for an illegal sale if he is found to be unable to own a gun, I see no reason why you should have to do a background check. I have no problem if a seller vouches for any buyer if he is willing to take responsibility for the sale. My problem comes when the seller knows nothing about the buyer, and there is no obligation or responsibility for the seller. to even know the buyer's name.

Yes, I know him. Private sales can get very complicated. This isn't what I was looking for but a taste. I'll keep digging. This one doesn't seem to hold a seller responsible but under BATFe eyes, one is. Note the could be illegal, it's there.


Under federal law, certain individuals such as convicted felons and out-of-state residents are not allowed to buy guns. A private transaction could become illegal if the buyer falls into one of those categories, or fails to meet other criteria.

But the seller is under no obligation to ask about those things. So long as a private seller does not knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person, they are not breaking federal law.

more here What Makes A Gun Sale Private? | Guns & America

That is the rub. It's easy to say "I didn't know", and with no responsibility to find out, that is a problem. I don't think it's unreasonable to do something about that.

 

[Shawnee_b]

This is what bulldog wants.....couldn't care less about stopping criminals...


Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"

Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store.

If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon.

Unfortunately some don't get it. You and I get it.

She's not stupid at all. Not like most dems, she is willing to listen.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Here's some more. Getting closer to what I was saying

2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State? Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and Unlicensed Persons | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download

 

[Shawnee_b]

Same atf link. That's what I been talking about. Screw up, you go to the pokey

3. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a resident of the same State in which I reside? Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. There may be State laws that regulate interstate firearm transactions. Any person considering acquiring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at www.naag.org.- 3 -

 

[Shawnee_b]

There is a start anyway. Contact your friendly BATFe agent for more info. I have dealt with them decades. Actually not bad people but sneaky. FBI persons in NICS? most professional I ever dealt with, most FBI are. NFA? Also very good trained professional people. I have caught BATFe in shit before. Went to get a coke, 2 min in other room and came back he was photographing my "private firearms log" (ILLEGAL) before I gave up and made it all in my bound book. Once they wanted to haul me in for making 922r compliant FnFals. Had to explain they were NOT FN but 922r compliant, but you got to know their CFR's and be able to quote them verbatim, shuts them right down and they smile.

 

[Shawnee_b]

That is the rub. It's easy to say "I didn't know", and with no responsibility to find out, that is a problem. I don't think it's unreasonable to do something about that.

Won't hold up. First you got to pay court costs. They charge you, make a deal, you still lose big time. Feds got you, don't ever doubt that. It's their B ball game, their rules, their judges, their prisons.

 

[Shawnee_b]

We have some background checks now, but no national registration, right?

There is more than you think. "4473 NICS check can't be held FBI over 24 hrs." Remember the crossed fingers behind out backs?" as a kid Where do you think that paperwork goes after 24 hrs. That's right. Registry, SN, caliber, model, your addy.........

 

[BULLDOG]

Same atf link. That's what I been talking about. Screw up, you go to the pokey

3. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a resident of the same State in which I reside? Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. There may be State laws that regulate interstate firearm transactions. Any person considering acquiring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at www.naag.org.- 3 -

Interstate laws do vary between states. It's reasonable to check to see if your state's laws match those of another state. Individual state laws are not federal laws. As a general rule, there is no obligation to bother finding out if the purchaser is allowed to own a gun, and no penlty for selling one to someone who would not pass a background check, unless it can be shown the seller was aware of the buyer's status. This is unacceptable in my view. Why would you not want to know if you are selling to someone who isn't allowed to own a gun?

 

[Shawnee_b]

I don't sell anyone gunz. Don't trust general population! Been a few years and always a background check.

 

[BULLDOG]

We have some background checks now, but no national registration, right?

There is more than you think. "4473 NICS check can't be held FBI over 24 hrs." Remember the crossed fingers behind out backs?" as a kid Where do you think that paperwork goes after 24 hrs. That's right. Registry, SN, caliber, model, your addy.........

So the Tiahrt ammendment is a scam? Is there any evidence of that?

 

[2aguy]

Same atf link. That's what I been talking about. Screw up, you go to the pokey

3. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a resident of the same State in which I reside? Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. There may be State laws that regulate interstate firearm transactions. Any person considering acquiring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at www.naag.org.- 3 -

Interstate laws do vary between states. It's reasonable to check to see if your state's laws match those of another state. Individual state laws are not federal laws. As a general rule, there is no obligation to bother finding out if the purchaser is allowed to own a gun, and no penlty for selling one to someone who would not pass a background check, unless it can be shown the seller was aware of the buyer's status. This is unacceptable in my view. Why would you not want to know if you are selling to someone who isn't allowed to own a gun?

No need to for a private citizen.....it is already against the law for a criminal to buy a gun from anyone...so, when you catch a criminal in possession of a gun, mere possession....you can already arrest them and put them in jail....

Universal Background checks aren't needed to do that, we can do it already...

Since you are being dishonest....you already know this and you know that the goal is gun registration....and while you are trying to get that, you want to put normal gun owners in legal peril for accidental non-compliance violations......so you can hit the average gun owner with a felony conviction for failing to jump through your hoops.....while the actual criminals caught with actual illegal guns are set free by democrat party judges on bail....now often with 'no cash' bail.....