Break down of Sandy Hook shooting....

[80zephyr]

There is good content in that article. Perhaps if you acknowledged other people's points instead of simply dismissing them as "gun nutter" writing, you might actually be able to have a productive dialogue.

Spambot repeats gun nut talking points that fly in the face of reality.

What reality?

Mark

 

[JoeB131]

The NRA talking points? Crime is at near historic lows, with more guns in society now than 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

yeah, but that has nothing to do with the fact we have too many guns and too many idiots owning them. Crime is low because the society as a whole is aging.

If you actually research these issues, and conclude that guns are somehow the problem, you are going to have to share your thought process's with us to help us understand.

This isn't complicated. Other countries either ban guns or limit who can own them.

So let's look at the murder rates. I don't give a fuck about other crimes. I really don't. Because they are largely subjective.

United Kingdom - 653 Homicides, 38 with guns. (2011 numbers)
Canada - 539 Homicides, 173 with guns.
France - 734 homicides, 127 with guns.
Germany - 662 homicides, 62 with guns. And Germany has limited gun ownership, just not like we do.
Italy - 552 homicides, 209 with guns.
Japan - 442 homicides, 11 with guns.
USA- 15,293 homicides in 2011, of which 11,101 were committed with guns.

YES, WE HAVE A GUN PROBLEM!!!!

 

[80zephyr]

The NRA talking points? Crime is at near historic lows, with more guns in society now than 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

yeah, but that has nothing to do with the fact we have too many guns and too many idiots owning them. Crime is low because the society as a whole is aging.

If you actually research these issues, and conclude that guns are somehow the problem, you are going to have to share your thought process's with us to help us understand.

This isn't complicated. Other countries either ban guns or limit who can own them.

So let's look at the murder rates. I don't give a fuck about other crimes. I really don't. Because they are largely subjective.

United Kingdom - 653 Homicides, 38 with guns. (2011 numbers)
Canada - 539 Homicides, 173 with guns.
France - 734 homicides, 127 with guns.
Germany - 662 homicides, 62 with guns. And Germany has limited gun ownership, just not like we do.
Italy - 552 homicides, 209 with guns.
Japan - 442 homicides, 11 with guns.
USA- 15,293 homicides in 2011, of which 11,101 were committed with guns.

YES, WE HAVE A GUN PROBLEM!!!!

As has been noted already, Russia has a murder rate four times our own, and some of the most restrictive gun laws on earth.

Are guns the problem there as well?

And what about specific states in our union, that rival the murder rates of the European countries? Idaho, Utah, and Iowa have very low murder rates, that rival the rates of the European countries, and very high rates of gun ownership.

Based on the evidence, logic tells me that gun ownership is not the problem.

Mark

 

[JoeB131]

As has been noted already, Russia has a murder rate four times our own, and some of the most restrictive gun laws on earth.

Russia isn't an industrialized democracy. I specifically counted the other six G-7 countries, not Russia.

Idaho, Utah, and Iowa have very low murder rates, that rival the rates of the European countries, and very high rates of gun ownership.

Idaho, Utah and Iowa are sparsely populated. Argument fail.

 

[Brain357]

The NRA talking points? Crime is at near historic lows, with more guns in society now than 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

yeah, but that has nothing to do with the fact we have too many guns and too many idiots owning them. Crime is low because the society as a whole is aging.

If you actually research these issues, and conclude that guns are somehow the problem, you are going to have to share your thought process's with us to help us understand.

This isn't complicated. Other countries either ban guns or limit who can own them.

So let's look at the murder rates. I don't give a fuck about other crimes. I really don't. Because they are largely subjective.

United Kingdom - 653 Homicides, 38 with guns. (2011 numbers)
Canada - 539 Homicides, 173 with guns.
France - 734 homicides, 127 with guns.
Germany - 662 homicides, 62 with guns. And Germany has limited gun ownership, just not like we do.
Italy - 552 homicides, 209 with guns.
Japan - 442 homicides, 11 with guns.
USA- 15,293 homicides in 2011, of which 11,101 were committed with guns.

YES, WE HAVE A GUN PROBLEM!!!!

As has been noted already, Russia has a murder rate four times our own, and some of the most restrictive gun laws on earth.

Are guns the problem there as well?

And what about specific states in our union, that rival the murder rates of the European countries? Idaho, Utah, and Iowa have very low murder rates, that rival the rates of the European countries, and very high rates of gun ownership.

Based on the evidence, logic tells me that gun ownership is not the problem.

Mark

I haven't seen any evidence that guns are the problem. I don't feel they are really that much of a factor in crime. I don't think crime goes up or down based on gun ownership. If the criminal doesn't use a gun he will use a knife. I also don't think the more good guys carrying effects crime. Wisconsin crime went up after they allowed concealed carry. I would assume we have way more accidental shootings than anywhere else due to our number of guns however. But those seem to be trending down.

 

[skookerasbil]

Somebody in here is whistling past the graveyard.......

 

[80zephyr]

As has been noted already, Russia has a murder rate four times our own, and some of the most restrictive gun laws on earth.

Russia isn't an industrialized democracy. I specifically counted the other six G-7 countries, not Russia.

Idaho, Utah, and Iowa have very low murder rates, that rival the rates of the European countries, and very high rates of gun ownership.

Idaho, Utah and Iowa are sparsely populated. Argument fail.

Tell me Joe, if the lack of guns make people safe, how come it doesn't work for the Russians? BTW, your parameters are specious. If you want to cherry pick, I can do so as well.

As to my "states" example, are you now moving the goalposts to disavow my point? Are you now saying its not the guns, but population density that kills?

Mark

 

[JoeB131]

Tell me Joe, if the lack of guns make people safe, how come it doesn't work for the Russians? BTW, your parameters are specious. If you want to cherry pick, I can do so as well.

Russia is a country where central authority has essentially broken down. Ergo, a gun ban in Russia is only slightly more meaningful than a gun ban in Somalia. There isn't a lack of guns in Russia, that's the problem. The USSR Fell and there were guns left lying around all over the place that no one has bothered to pick up.

Comparing the US to other G-7 Democracies is the best analogy becuase they are at about the same level as we are in terms of law enforcement, economics and society. Canada being the closest, Japan being the most different.

 

[2aguy]

You get voter i.d. for free...they have programs where they will come to your home......and when the democrats enacted poll taxes, literacy tests and lynchings to prevent blacks from voting...it was Republicans making them stop.....

republicans didn't do jack shit. Pretty much after Lincoln got shot, republicans stopped caring. Until they figured out that they could play on the anxieties of white folks with...er.. little problems to get them to vote against their own economic interests.

In any event, voter ID is just voter suppression. There's no evidence that there's any widespread voter fraud, this is just to keep them darkies from voting and you know it.

YOu obviously don't realize that the Republicans at the time of the death of Lincoln wanted to do way more for the freed slaves...since the Republican party was founded on ending slavery....right? And what stopped them.......Lincoln, tried bringing the country together by having a democrat as Vice President....one sympathetic to the slave owners, so when Lincoln died, that democrat became President....and blocked efforts to help the blacks freed from democrat slave holding...the Republicans tried to impeach him, but it didn't work....

 

[2aguy]

"Crime and welfare are their only alternative"? Are you kidding? It may be an economic difference, but that is only because their cultural differences put them there. Just look at the thug rap culture that is worshiped in those communities. The message is to spend all your money on idiotic materal stuff that makes you look good. Being a "nerd" and studying your ass off to learn something isn't something they respect. I know plenty of people that grew up poor in high crime areas, but they made the choice to do something constructive with their lives, that envolves picking up a book and learning something, rather than buying a bunch of bling bling and investing in nothing. There is no reason every single kid in any given hood can't do the same. But it doesn't happen because of peer pressure of the Thug culture, and because liars like you make them believe the have "no other alternative" than a life of crime and welfare because they're family is poor.

You know what, guy, I already gave Jethro the "Clueless White Guy of the Year" Award. If you want to be considered for next year, you can post this kind of shit tomorrow.

Being a nerd and studying your ass off doesn't help all that much if you still can't get a job.

They did a test a few years back. Identical resumes sent to employers. some of them had "White" names like "John Smith" and some had black names like "Jamal Washington". And surprise, surprise, "John" got more call backs for interviews.

sure...tell that to Dr, Ben Carson....tell that to Dr. Walter Williams, General Colin Powell, Dr. Thomas Sowell......or any other successful person who grew up poor but fought their way out...it is racists like you joe who try their best to keep minorities, uneducated, hopless and poor.....it fits your world view........

 

[WinterBorn]

The NRA talking points? Crime is at near historic lows, with more guns in society now than 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

yeah, but that has nothing to do with the fact we have too many guns and too many idiots owning them. Crime is low because the society as a whole is aging.

If you actually research these issues, and conclude that guns are somehow the problem, you are going to have to share your thought process's with us to help us understand.

This isn't complicated. Other countries either ban guns or limit who can own them.

So let's look at the murder rates. I don't give a fuck about other crimes. I really don't. Because they are largely subjective.

United Kingdom - 653 Homicides, 38 with guns. (2011 numbers)
Canada - 539 Homicides, 173 with guns.
France - 734 homicides, 127 with guns.
Germany - 662 homicides, 62 with guns. And Germany has limited gun ownership, just not like we do.
Italy - 552 homicides, 209 with guns.
Japan - 442 homicides, 11 with guns.
USA- 15,293 homicides in 2011, of which 11,101 were committed with guns.

YES, WE HAVE A GUN PROBLEM!!!!

There are 65 million gun owners and 300 million guns in the US. We have +/- 9,000 murders a year and 700 - 800 accidental shooting deaths. That means 99.986% of gun owners are not involved with any murder or accidental shooting death.

Even if you add in all the things you want to throw in to make the numbers more sensationalistic, like the suicides, it is still a tiny percentage. If you look at 9,000 gun murders, 800 accidental shooting deaths, 78,000 gun related injuries, and 20,000 gun suicides, that only accounts for 0.16% of the gun owners in this country. 99.84% of gun owners are not involved in any of that. Oh, and that is only if all of those numbers concern legal gun owners. I doubt the murders come close to that.

 

[theHawk]

The thing is, you always have some excuse when facts are not in your favor.

The thing is, you have no argument.

NO, I actually bother to research the issues, rather than repeat debunked NRA talking points.

The NRA talking points? Crime is at near historic lows, with more guns in society now than 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

Our own government is the one compiling the numbers. If you actually research these issues, and conclude that guns are somehow the problem, you are going to have to share your thought process's with us to help us understand.

Because, based on the totality of evidence, you are wrong.

Mark

The limp-wristers have the Agenda to push.


The facts be damned.

 

[Statistikhengst]

It's instructive the gun fetishists are so wallowing in their own swill they'll actually go to the length of denying twenty kids were mowed down at all.

Hey -- priorities.

And Pogo - that may be the greatest tragedy of this all, outside of the death of those 20 innocent kids - the fact that some people have become so innerly rigid that they don't even register the devastation that happened, and that some go as far as to say that it was staged. I mean, that is just sick.

 

[Statistikhengst]

6 minutes and 6 seonds before the police even knew there was a problem.......

Which is why the answer is trained, armed security at all public buildings when they are open.

You mean like in a police state?

Hate to tell you this but schools in New Haven CT already have security guards and metal detectors. I don't think they are armed but I've never thought to look. It's not a far stretch and we certainly don't live in a police state. Let me give you an example of an average New Haven School day. School goes into lock down because an armed robbery suspect is in the area. A few years back on was tackled right outside my daughters classroom. There were shot fired near my Nephews school about two or three years ago. Again School went into lockdown. Mind you Sandy Hook isn't where you'd expect any of this type of stuff to go on. It's a rural community(for Connecticut). What it does show is that this crap can happen anywhere. So preparing for the worst is probably a good thing. If somebody had had a gun they might have been able to kill Lanza before he ever got to the classrooms.

As far as Adam Lanza, we need to improve mental health care because obviously he was disturbed and fell through the cracks.

I strongly agree with you.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Yes, because nothing says "Land of the Free" like AK-47s and kevlar at Johnny's first grade class.

When have I ever concerned myself with Freedom? Law, Order and Righteousness are my goals

You at least deserve credit for being an honest authoritarian conservative, like most on the right you disdain freedom, diversity, and dissent and seek to compel compliance and conformity.

Aren't those also the core concepts of fascism?

 

[Anathema]

Aren't those also the core concepts of fascism?

Pretty much; though they're the concepts of almost any Authoritarian philosophy.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Aren't those also the core concepts of fascism?

Pretty much; though they're the concepts of almost any Authoritarian philosophy.

Fascinating. ..

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[Anathema]

Fascinating. ..

In what way, if I may ask? I've never made any pretense of being anything other than a Nationalistic, Isolationist, Authoritarian.

 

[JoeB131]

YOu obviously don't realize that the Republicans at the time of the death of Lincoln wanted to do way more for the freed slaves...since the Republican party was founded on ending slavery....right? And what stopped them.......Lincoln, tried bringing the country together by having a democrat as Vice President....one sympathetic to the slave owners, so when Lincoln died, that democrat became President....and blocked efforts to help the blacks freed from democrat slave holding...the Republicans tried to impeach him, but it didn't work....

Uh, nice try, guy. But really, the GOP gave up on doing much more for the slaves than freeing them pretty quickly. Like by 1876, they just didn't care. Getting Rutherford B. Hayes to steal the election was more important. hmmm. The GOP stealing the election and then fucking every thing up. When has that happened... Oh, never mind.

 

[JoeB131]

sure...tell that to Dr, Ben Carson....tell that to Dr. Walter Williams, General Colin Powell, Dr. Thomas Sowell......or any other successful person who grew up poor but fought their way out...it is racists like you joe who try their best to keep minorities, uneducated, hopless and poor.....it fits your world view........

General Powell has acknowledged that affrimative action was a big help in his career. Carson, Williams and Sowell are a bunch of Uncle Toms, so who cares what they think?