Breaking confirmed active shooter at Texas Walmart 18 ppl shot

[boedicca]

Here goes the morons on a GUN GRAB KICK again!!!!!!!!

What do you feel should be done?

- Quit demonizing boys so that they are programmed in public schools to become maladjusted mental cases.
- Quit drugging up boys with ADD drugs for just being boys.
- Get rid of gun free zones.
- Nationwide conceal carry permits for legal gun owners who have had training.

So INCEL is everyone else's fault?

I said no such thing. But thanks for sharing.

 

[night_son]

Interview with another witness. This guy was carrying (concealed carry, legally) and you know what he did? He ran.

blob:https://www.nbcnews.com/a0818a1a-bacc-4888-ac35-1a27b2b7d95b

No one trained or otherwise will find out how they deal with combat until it happens. For some, combat happens without their realization until it's over. Just because some guy was packing a weapon doesn't mean he will transform into John McClane when the shooting starts. That being said, an armed citizen has a much higher chance of surviving a mass shooting and saving innocent lives than someone who has never fired a weapon and/or does not carry.

 

[bodecea]

They have a suspect --

what stupidity is this

No more stupid than electing that president....

Off topic, he was OBVIOUSLY not the shooter

I agree...hands too tiny to grip and shoot

 

[rightwinger]

Yes...it does.

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murder......

And over the last 26 years as more Americans have owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%......that means more safe, not less.......our gun crime rate went down 75%...75%....that means more safe, not less.....violent crime is down 72%...that means more safe, not less.....

The 2nd Amendment keeps us safe from crimnals and people like you.

Sure they do

If they stop 1.1 million crimes a year.....why isn’t our crime rate dropping by a million a year?

It already dropped 49% for gun murder, 75% for gun crime and 72% for violent crime over the last 26 years......that's great by anyones measure...

So you would rather have those 1.1 million people suffer rape, robbery and murder instead of stopping it with their gun? Got it.

Imaginary number based on gun owner fantasies

How often are guns used to stop crimes?

The L.A. Times also reported on statistics released by the Violence Policy Center in June 2015. Those statistics showed that in 2012, there were 259 justifiable self-defense homicides in which victims turned the tables. In 2012, there were 1.2 million violent crimes, including murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault -- despite 300 million firearms are owned in the United States -- so the report conjectured that guns have not been effective crime deterrents.

The Violence Policy Center also said the 259 justifiable homicides should be balanced against the theft of about 232,000 guns each year -- about 172,000 of them during burglaries. That’s a ratio of one justifiable homicide for every 896 guns put into the hands of criminals, the Times reported.

Here....from the Centers for Disease Control research....

1.1 million times a year......Department of Justice....1.5 million times a year.....the numbers don't support the anti-gun, Violence Policy Center...

What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Abstract
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

=========



Reason article on the revised paper..



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use



-------



Original version before he went back to revise it...

The actual paper by Kleck revealing the CDC hiding data..



SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.



This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

LOL

Surveys of gun owners
Why don’t you survey non gun owners and ask them how many times a gun owner has saved their lives?

330 million guns out there and I don’t know a single person who was rescued by a private citizen with a gun

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Interview with another witness. This guy was carrying (concealed carry, legally) and you know what he did? He ran.

blob:https://www.nbcnews.com/a0818a1a-bacc-4888-ac35-1a27b2b7d95b

Which is what one is supposed to do.

Citizens have the right to carry concealed firearms pursuant to lawful self-defense.

Not act in the capacity of law enforcement, not to deter crime, and not to stop active shooters who pose no threat to the individual carrying a concealed firearm.

 

[SweetSue92]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

 

[Paulie]

True. In England they turned to stabbings. Do you know why? Because murderers gonna murder

They might. Do they have mass stabblings, with 18 stabbed, many of them to death, while they were shopping at Walmart?

I don’t know. I don’t read all the stories about bad people doing things, we live in a world with 8 billion people there’s too many of us on this planet and that means sometimes a piece of shit kills people. But there’s been a LOT of stabbings in England. To the point where they’ve asked people to turn in kitchen knives. Fucking kitchen knives are now something you’re supposed to fear when you leave your house in England. But at least there’s no guns though right?

That is not true. Nobody has been asked to hand over any kitchen knives. And knife murders are more common in the US than the UK.

There’s fucking deposit boxes around the city of London specifically for people put knives into. Any knives.

Its optional. Nobody is being compelled to do anything. Your sources have lied to you.

I never said they were you fucking moron the point was that it’s that bad that they’re even asking for people to give the city their knives. Because taking the guns away did NOTHING

 

[miketx]

From the picture I saw it looks like the shooter had an AK. Thank God, they'll lay off AR-15's now!

 

[Paulie]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

No. The 2nd amendment is perfectly clear. There is no compromise. Bad people exist. Deal with it.

 

[miketx]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

How is the gun responsible?

 

[Dekster]

this has been going on for fifteen minutes nobody posted it yet LOL...........

Sorry I was at work. Gotta pay the bills. Thoughts and prayers. Ban guns. yada yada yada. Nothing will ever change as long as these two parties control our politics.

 

[SweetSue92]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

How is the gun responsible?

It's not. But let's see if the Leftists are willing to bend at all.

 

[miketx]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

How is the gun responsible?

It's not. But let's see if the Leftists are willing to bend at all.

Sorry Sue, no compromise on guns. Screw them all.

 

[Blues Man]

Well lets add mass murder to the ills of the world that are caused by Walmart.

You libs should be happy now you can call to ban Walmart to save lives

 

[SweetSue92]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

How is the gun responsible?

It's not. But let's see if the Leftists are willing to bend at all.

Sorry Sue, no compromise on guns. Screw them all.

There won't have to be; they want to gun grab but won't budge an inch on the death penalty.

Watch.

 

[Coyote]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

I would be willing to restrict access to high powered guns but not expedite due process. Justice should not be rushed, to much can go wrong and has, historically. Any other options?

 

[Coyote]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

How is the gun responsible?

It's not. But let's see if the Leftists are willing to bend at all.

Sorry Sue, no compromise on guns. Screw them all.

There won't have to be; they want to gun grab but won't budge an inch on the death penalty.

Watch.

Are you interested in discussion or baiting?

 

[SweetSue92]

I blame liberals for this too.

I blame them for taking up YEARS....YEARS.....of media coverage on NOTHING but the STUPID "Russia" hoax while we are dealing with a mental health crisis like you wouldn't believe in schools, in hospitals, everywhere. That is REAL news. Not inane DC news that affects NOONE. Real news that tragically has now gotten people killed.

Leftists will scatter like roaches at this post too.

 

[Blues Man]

Sure they do

If they stop 1.1 million crimes a year.....why isn’t our crime rate dropping by a million a year?

It already dropped 49% for gun murder, 75% for gun crime and 72% for violent crime over the last 26 years......that's great by anyones measure...

So you would rather have those 1.1 million people suffer rape, robbery and murder instead of stopping it with their gun? Got it.

Imaginary number based on gun owner fantasies

How often are guns used to stop crimes?

The L.A. Times also reported on statistics released by the Violence Policy Center in June 2015. Those statistics showed that in 2012, there were 259 justifiable self-defense homicides in which victims turned the tables. In 2012, there were 1.2 million violent crimes, including murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault -- despite 300 million firearms are owned in the United States -- so the report conjectured that guns have not been effective crime deterrents.

The Violence Policy Center also said the 259 justifiable homicides should be balanced against the theft of about 232,000 guns each year -- about 172,000 of them during burglaries. That’s a ratio of one justifiable homicide for every 896 guns put into the hands of criminals, the Times reported.

Here....from the Centers for Disease Control research....

1.1 million times a year......Department of Justice....1.5 million times a year.....the numbers don't support the anti-gun, Violence Policy Center...

What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Abstract
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

=========



Reason article on the revised paper..



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use



-------



Original version before he went back to revise it...

The actual paper by Kleck revealing the CDC hiding data..



SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.



This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

LOL

Surveys of gun owners
Why don’t you survey non gun owners and ask them how many times a gun owner has saved their lives?

330 million guns out there and I don’t know a single person who was rescued by a private citizen with a gun

You do know that a gun owner is not obligated to rescue anyone don't you.

Shit the cops don't legally have to come to your aid but you want private citizens to play cop now?

 

[SweetSue92]

I might be willing to meet Leftists half way on this. Let's say we restrict access to high powered rifles in exchange for this: in cases of mass murders, due process is expedited. Jury is convened within one week, death penalty is meted out within one month.

Who's in?

I would be willing to restrict access to high powered guns but not expedite due process. Justice should not be rushed, to much can go wrong and has, historically. Any other options?

Not in this case. They have him dead to rights. If you want to grab guns under "emergency", then we should also expedite due process and the death penalty under "emergency" as a message to other would be mass murderers. You do this and survive, you will be killed in short order.