Breaking confirmed active shooter at Texas Walmart 18 ppl shot

[westwall]

But the second amendment keeps us safe

Doesn’t it?

Yes...it does.

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murder......

And over the last 26 years as more Americans have owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%......that means more safe, not less.......our gun crime rate went down 75%...75%....that means more safe, not less.....violent crime is down 72%...that means more safe, not less.....

The 2nd Amendment keeps us safe from crimnals and people like you.

Sure they do

If they stop 1.1 million crimes a year.....why isn’t our crime rate dropping by a million a year?

It already dropped 49% for gun murder, 75% for gun crime and 72% for violent crime over the last 26 years......that's great by anyones measure...

So you would rather have those 1.1 million people suffer rape, robbery and murder instead of stopping it with their gun? Got it.

Imaginary number based on gun owner fantasies

How often are guns used to stop crimes?

Wow, a paywall blocked link is so compelling....'tard.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Every gun law is aimed at the most law-abiding citizens in the nation.

Permit holders are extremely law abiding. They would lose their permits for any weapons-related infraction. It doesn’t happen

1. Example: “Of the 51,078 permits that have been issued by the state since the law took effect in 2007, 44 permit holders have been charged with a crime while using a firearm through late October, according to records provided by the Kansas Attorney General’s Office.”
2. http://www.kansas.com/news/article1103132.html
3. http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/17/2572467/few-crimes-committed-by-concealed.html ( .00086%)

The CDC studied laws throughout the country, and found: “In summary, the Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence.” http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/rr/rr5214.pdf







Ask any goose-stepping Liberal drone to name the gun laws that thugs, criminals and killers obey, and watch the look you get.

 

[Edgetho]

They have a suspect --

 

[bodecea]

We have mass shootings regularly....

It's part of living in a free country. Love it or leave it.

And the feedom to life? So many free countries don't have this problem.

Are they really free countries, or are they run by socialists?

Like Israel?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control are not having regular mass shootings.

True. In England they turned to stabbings. Do you know why? Because murderers gonna murder

They might. Do they have mass stabblings, with 18 stabbed, many of them to death, while they were shopping at Walmart?

I don’t know. I don’t read all the stories about bad people doing things, we live in a world with 8 billion people there’s too many of us on this planet and that means sometimes a piece of shit kills people. But there’s been a LOT of stabbings in England. To the point where they’ve asked people to turn in kitchen knives. Fucking kitchen knives are now something you’re supposed to fear when you leave your house in England. But at least there’s no guns though right?

That is not true. Nobody has been asked to hand over any kitchen knives. And knife murders are more common in the US than the UK.

There’s fucking deposit boxes around the city of London specifically for people put knives into. Any knives.

Its optional. Nobody is being compelled to do anything. Your sources have lied to you.

 

[Anathema]

So, serious question. The witness I heard being interviewed said she was hearing LOUD fireworks. I've heard people describe the pop-pop-pop as fireworks before, but she said LOUD. She said the shooter was wearing noise cancelling ear muffs.
So I'm guessing it was a pretty loud rifle? What kind would it have been?

Just hearing the firearm is an AK-47, which fires a 7.62mm round, compared to the 5.56mm round that a standard AR-15 fires.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Just seeing this reported.....details are not true or accurate yet....but the anti-gunners have jumped in already....

Police Claim Possible Multiple Shooters in El Paso Shopping Area

So..that's what is important..the wicked gun grabbers..not a even a pretense of shock or sorrow at the tragedy..but factoring in how this will fit into your agenda's narrative.
You are contemptible.

When they wade through the pools of blood to drag the bodies in front of the democrat press cameras......do you think they use some sort of pre-soak to get it out of their clothes?

It appears to me that you are doing just that..in your rush to get your words in first. But continue with your narrative, by all means. You do know that to a lot of us...regardless of our political leanings..see you as a one trick pony..with the same mish-mash wall of words posted....every-time this happens?

 

[bodecea]

Yeah, they have bombings and stabbings and trucks running over them, so move to one, cockroach.

And that happens every few years. We have mass shootings regularly....

You are a lair.

Only speak the truth. Has it even been a week since our last mass shooting?

Well there you go, pass a law with a minimum length of time between mass shootings.

That will work as well as any of the other stupid laws you want.

I think we should go to the woods a midnight, sprinke pixie dust in a small stream and wish away all violence in the world......that would be as effective as brain and the other anti-gunners with their dumb, useless ideas.

You sound upset...why would you be upset when this is your ideal world?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control are not having regular mass shootings.

True. In England they turned to stabbings. Do you know why? Because murderers gonna murder

They might. Do they have mass stabblings, with 18 stabbed, many of them to death, while they were shopping at Walmart?

I don’t know. I don’t read all the stories about bad people doing things, we live in a world with 8 billion people there’s too many of us on this planet and that means sometimes a piece of shit kills people. But there’s been a LOT of stabbings in England. To the point where they’ve asked people to turn in kitchen knives. Fucking kitchen knives are now something you’re supposed to fear when you leave your house in England. But at least there’s no guns though right?

That is not true. Nobody has been asked to hand over any kitchen knives. And knife murders are more common in the US than the UK.

Um, they don't want you to have "pointy knives". Feel free to check, there are dozens of links to the desire dating back to at least 2005.

UK judge calls for ban on pointed kitchen knives to reduce stabbing deaths
UK judge calls for ban on pointed kitchen knives to reduce stabbing deaths

Judges dont make laws. Show me the law compelling me to hand over my kitchen knives.

 

[2aguy]

But the second amendment keeps us safe

Doesn’t it?

Yes...it does.

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murder......

And over the last 26 years as more Americans have owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%......that means more safe, not less.......our gun crime rate went down 75%...75%....that means more safe, not less.....violent crime is down 72%...that means more safe, not less.....

The 2nd Amendment keeps us safe from crimnals and people like you.

Sure they do

If they stop 1.1 million crimes a year.....why isn’t our crime rate dropping by a million a year?

It already dropped 49% for gun murder, 75% for gun crime and 72% for violent crime over the last 26 years......that's great by anyones measure...

So you would rather have those 1.1 million people suffer rape, robbery and murder instead of stopping it with their gun? Got it.

Imaginary number based on gun owner fantasies

How often are guns used to stop crimes?

The L.A. Times also reported on statistics released by the Violence Policy Center in June 2015. Those statistics showed that in 2012, there were 259 justifiable self-defense homicides in which victims turned the tables. In 2012, there were 1.2 million violent crimes, including murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault -- despite 300 million firearms are owned in the United States -- so the report conjectured that guns have not been effective crime deterrents.

The Violence Policy Center also said the 259 justifiable homicides should be balanced against the theft of about 232,000 guns each year -- about 172,000 of them during burglaries. That’s a ratio of one justifiable homicide for every 896 guns put into the hands of criminals, the Times reported.

Here....from the Centers for Disease Control research....

1.1 million times a year......Department of Justice....1.5 million times a year.....the numbers don't support the anti-gun, Violence Policy Center...

What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Abstract
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

=========



Reason article on the revised paper..



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use



-------



Original version before he went back to revise it...

The actual paper by Kleck revealing the CDC hiding data..



SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.



This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

 

[2aguy]

But the second amendment keeps us safe

Doesn’t it?

Yes...it does.

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murder......

And over the last 26 years as more Americans have owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%......that means more safe, not less.......our gun crime rate went down 75%...75%....that means more safe, not less.....violent crime is down 72%...that means more safe, not less.....

The 2nd Amendment keeps us safe from crimnals and people like you.

Sure they do

If they stop 1.1 million crimes a year.....why isn’t our crime rate dropping by a million a year?

It already dropped 49% for gun murder, 75% for gun crime and 72% for violent crime over the last 26 years......that's great by anyones measure...

So you would rather have those 1.1 million people suffer rape, robbery and murder instead of stopping it with their gun? Got it.

Imaginary number based on gun owner fantasies

How often are guns used to stop crimes?

The L.A. Times also reported on statistics released by the Violence Policy Center in June 2015. Those statistics showed that in 2012, there were 259 justifiable self-defense homicides in which victims turned the tables. In 2012, there were 1.2 million violent crimes, including murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault -- despite 300 million firearms are owned in the United States -- so the report conjectured that guns have not been effective crime deterrents.

The Violence Policy Center also said the 259 justifiable homicides should be balanced against the theft of about 232,000 guns each year -- about 172,000 of them during burglaries. That’s a ratio of one justifiable homicide for every 896 guns put into the hands of criminals, the Times reported.

The Violence Policy Center is a joke...

New York Times again using the bogus Violence Policy Center data - Crime Prevention Research Center

The New York Times continues its reliance on the Violence Policy Center’s discussion about concealed handgun permit holders.

since 2007, at least 763 people have been killed in 579 shootings that did not involve self-defense.

When the New York Times cited this source in February we had this piece at Fox.

The VPC keeps a record of permit holder abuses in each state. Take the claimed worst state, Michigan. The VPC cites state police and media reports indicating that permit holders committed 277 suicides or murders during the period from 2007 through 2015 (217 suicides and 60 murders). If accurate, a 38 percent share of all 722 deaths nationwide that the VPC attributed to permitted concealed handguns occurred in Michigan.

But suicides are not in any meaningful way linked to the act of carrying a permitted concealed handgun outside of one’s home. The Michigan State Police reports it does not collect information on how the suicides were committed, just that permit holders committed suicide.

Interestingly, the 2013 suicide rate among Michigan permit holders (6.2 per 100,000 permit holders) is lower than the rate among the general adult population (16.59). Typically, suicides — with or without guns — take place at home. So, again, what do these numbers have to do with the concealed-carry debate? . . .

All in all, the VPC has managed to at least triple-count the true number of cases of permit holders killing people. Furthermore, the vast majority of these killings were suicides, or legitimate self-defense shootings. . . .

 

[bodecea]

Here goes the morons on a GUN GRAB KICK again!!!!!!!!

Find it funny since the Mueller report was a dead and his appearance in front of Congress was a bigger dude that we have had two mass shootings. Do democratics call out to thier people who want to be martyrs for thier causes?

Find it funny, do you?

You do. You mock the victims any time you can because you are a vile piece of shit.

Ruh Roooooh!...crushing attempt to deflect from the thread topic.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Just seeing this reported.....details are not true or accurate yet....but the anti-gunners have jumped in already....

Police Claim Possible Multiple Shooters in El Paso Shopping Area

Idiot liberals don't realize that more guns make us safer.

If only Texas had concealed carry laws – good guys with guns would have prevented this.

Wait…

Never mind.

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?

US knife crime is far worse than UK knife crime.

 

[bodecea]

Here goes the morons on a GUN GRAB KICK again!!!!!!!!

T's & P's

Still FAR more than you ever do, other than fight harder to create more victims and more bloodshed.

Thanks, but I'll take the Thoughts and Prayers over your criminal hugging and fascist fantasies any day.

Isn't it odd that suddenly T's & P's aren't enough.......

 

[SweetSue92]

They have a suspect --

what stupidity is this

 

[bodecea]

Here goes the morons on a GUN GRAB KICK again!!!!!!!!

What do you feel should be done?

- Quit demonizing boys so that they are programmed in public schools to become maladjusted mental cases.
- Quit drugging up boys with ADD drugs for just being boys.
- Get rid of gun free zones.
- Nationwide conceal carry permits for legal gun owners who have had training.

So INCEL is everyone else's fault?

 

[2aguy]

Just seeing this reported.....details are not true or accurate yet....but the anti-gunners have jumped in already....

Police Claim Possible Multiple Shooters in El Paso Shopping Area

Idiot liberals don't realize that more guns make us safer.

If only Texas had concealed carry laws – good guys with guns would have prevented this.

Wait…

Never mind.

Thoughts and prayers.

We know one guy had a gun, but he was getting kids to safety......

And we know, from research, the more good guys with guns the more effective they are at stopping these shootings......

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[bodecea]

They have a suspect --

what stupidity is this

No more stupid than electing that president....

 

[SweetSue92]

They have a suspect --

what stupidity is this

No more stupid than electing that president....

Off topic, he was OBVIOUSLY not the shooter