Can any American of integrity honestly be against regulation?

[Agit8r]

I opened this thread with a lot of hope preparing to intellectually argue pro-2nd amendment but was dismayed this is just another pointless thread from a brain dead conservative making retarded points. I'm going to move on now and let this thread die it's natural death.

The solution is to teach with as much evangelicalism as global warming has been taught from pre-school up the following.. with practical
down to earth examples like this one.

Ask an adult this question:
Why do you drive 20mph in a 20mph school zone?
1) Because there might be a cop around.
2) Because it is the law.
3) Because a car driven at 40mph can't stop if a kid darts out into the street.

Most adults will choose 1. A few will choose 2. Very little if any will choose 3!
Yet it is the law of physics that supersedes the first two!

Very few adults understand the basis for rules,regulations,etc. can be summed up with the practical, common sense statement:
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you!" Yes the "Golden Rule"!

If pre-schoolers on up were taught the practical value of the Golden Rule, i.e. don't take someone's toy because you don't want someone to take your toy. For adults, don't drive 40mph in a school zone because your kid might dart out in front of a car.. i.e. do unto others as you would have others do unto you!

We've relegated the Golden Rule to theology when it is so basic to all civilized societies and best illustrated by what the OP stated about
regulators watching regulators, etc...
There are NOT enough video cameras much less cops on every street corner to enforce the millions of rules,regulations so what
should be the simplest most efficient advancement of civilization is..
TEACHING the practical, pragmatic, common sense value of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

That applies to corporations, to "greedy" evil wall street.. to manufacturers,etc.
If a major effort to change the perception of the Golden Rule from strictly theological to "LOGICAL" practical adherence to the laws of
physics.. i.e. DON"T TEXT and Drive! Don't do it because it is against the law but it is against a higher law.. physics!@!!!!
And the laws of physics are really engrained in the Golden Rule.. "don't push someone if you don't want to be pushed!"
Don't cheat on your taxes unless you want others to cheat also! Don't drink and drive because you are physically impaired!

And back these up with concrete real examples!
NO amount of cameras, GPS,etc.. will work as well as educated, considerate, people adhering to the Golden Rule!

So schools do not teach reciprocity? I am pretty sure that most do.

 

[Pheonixops]

Writing from France, Jefferson describes extreme inequality of wealth as a violation of natural right, and an evil against which all wise legislators will guard. Suggests, among other things, a form of graduated taxation.



Excerpt from a
Letter To James Madison
Thomas Jefferson (Oct. 28, 1785)
[NOTE: This letter was written while Jefferson was in France. In it, he talks about a trip he's made to a village where the king goes in the fall.]

...I set out yesterday morning to take a view of the place.... As soon as I had got clear of the town I fell in with a poor woman walking at the same rate as myself and going the same course. Wishing to know the condition of the laboring poor I entered into conversation with her... She told me she was a day labourer, at 8 sous or 4 d. sterling the day; that she had two children to maintain, and to pay a rent of 30 livres for her house (which would consume the hire of 75 days), that often she could get no employment, and of course was without bread. As we had walked together near a mile and she had so far served me as a guide, I gave her, on parting, 24 sous. She burst into tears of a gratitude which I could percieve was unfeigned, because she was unable to utter a word. She had probably never before recieved so great an aid. This little attendrissement, with the solitude of my walk led me into a train of reflections on that unequal division of property which occaisions the numberless instances of wretchedness which I have observed in this country and is to be observed all over Europe.

The property of this country is absolutely concentrated in a very few hands, having revenues of from half a million of guineas a year downwards. These employ the flower of the country as servants, some of them having as many as 200 domestics, not labouring. They employ also a great number of manufacturers, and tradesmen, and lastly the class of labouring husbandmen. But after these comes them most numerous of all the classes, that is, the poor who cannot find work. I asked myself what could be the reason that so many should be permitted to beg who are willing to work, in a country where there is a very considerable proportion of uncultivated lands? These lands are kept idle mostly for the sake of game. It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth of the proprietors which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues by permitting these lands to be laboured. I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. The descent of property of every kind therefore to all the children, or to all the brothers and sisters, or other relations in equal degree is a politic measure, and a practicable one. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labour and live on. If, for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be furnished to those excluded from the appropriation. If we do not the fundamental right to labour the earth returns to the unemployed. It is too soon yet in our country to say that every man who cannot find employment but who can find uncultivated land, shall be at liberty to cultivate it, paying a moderate rent. But it is not too soon to provide by every possible means that as few as possible shall be without a little portion of land. The small landholders are the most precious part of a state.

 

[healthmyths]

I opened this thread with a lot of hope preparing to intellectually argue pro-2nd amendment but was dismayed this is just another pointless thread from a brain dead conservative making retarded points. I'm going to move on now and let this thread die it's natural death.

The solution is to teach with as much evangelicalism as global warming has been taught from pre-school up the following.. with practical
down to earth examples like this one.

Ask an adult this question:
Why do you drive 20mph in a 20mph school zone?
1) Because there might be a cop around.
2) Because it is the law.
3) Because a car driven at 40mph can't stop if a kid darts out into the street.

Most adults will choose 1. A few will choose 2. Very little if any will choose 3!
Yet it is the law of physics that supersedes the first two!

Very few adults understand the basis for rules,regulations,etc. can be summed up with the practical, common sense statement:
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you!" Yes the "Golden Rule"!

If pre-schoolers on up were taught the practical value of the Golden Rule, i.e. don't take someone's toy because you don't want someone to take your toy. For adults, don't drive 40mph in a school zone because your kid might dart out in front of a car.. i.e. do unto others as you would have others do unto you!

We've relegated the Golden Rule to theology when it is so basic to all civilized societies and best illustrated by what the OP stated about
regulators watching regulators, etc...
There are NOT enough video cameras much less cops on every street corner to enforce the millions of rules,regulations so what
should be the simplest most efficient advancement of civilization is..
TEACHING the practical, pragmatic, common sense value of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

That applies to corporations, to "greedy" evil wall street.. to manufacturers,etc.
If a major effort to change the perception of the Golden Rule from strictly theological to "LOGICAL" practical adherence to the laws of
physics.. i.e. DON"T TEXT and Drive! Don't do it because it is against the law but it is against a higher law.. physics!@!!!!
And the laws of physics are really engrained in the Golden Rule.. "don't push someone if you don't want to be pushed!"
Don't cheat on your taxes unless you want others to cheat also! Don't drink and drive because you are physically impaired!

And back these up with concrete real examples!
NO amount of cameras, GPS,etc.. will work as well as educated, considerate, people adhering to the Golden Rule!

So schools do not teach reciprocity? I am pretty sure that most do.

WeLL obviously it isn't very effective!
Your 4 year old pre-schooler is pumped full of "greening" "global warming" platitudes, memes as the advertisers push their "green" cars,etc...
Every one I mean EVERYONE knows about bringing your re-usable bag and don't use those hateful plastic environmentally bad bags!
MY point which obviously "reciprocity"..Reciprocity in social psychology refers to responding to a positive action with another positive action, rewarding kind actions."
is MISSING is the common daily practical values that ARE NOT ALTRUISTIC and noble or theological of the Golden Rule is NOT being taught!
Again.. I asked my 13 year old granddaughter why one shouldn't drive 40mph in a 20mph zone and her response "it's against the law".. YES but WHY leads people to understand the speed zone tells us that is the SAFEST speed because of the laws of physics i.e. can't see the kid darting out behind the parked car!

Simple. Common sense education not "reciprocity" is NOT being taught! You don't text and drive because the law of physics not the laws of man!

Once people start to understand the fundamental law that you can't break the LAWS of physics then we won't be so dependent on the laws of man!

 

[Agit8r]

The solution is to teach with as much evangelicalism as global warming has been taught from pre-school up the following.. with practical
down to earth examples like this one.

Ask an adult this question:
Why do you drive 20mph in a 20mph school zone?
1) Because there might be a cop around.
2) Because it is the law.
3) Because a car driven at 40mph can't stop if a kid darts out into the street.

Most adults will choose 1. A few will choose 2. Very little if any will choose 3!
Yet it is the law of physics that supersedes the first two!

Very few adults understand the basis for rules,regulations,etc. can be summed up with the practical, common sense statement:
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you!" Yes the "Golden Rule"!

If pre-schoolers on up were taught the practical value of the Golden Rule, i.e. don't take someone's toy because you don't want someone to take your toy. For adults, don't drive 40mph in a school zone because your kid might dart out in front of a car.. i.e. do unto others as you would have others do unto you!

We've relegated the Golden Rule to theology when it is so basic to all civilized societies and best illustrated by what the OP stated about
regulators watching regulators, etc...
There are NOT enough video cameras much less cops on every street corner to enforce the millions of rules,regulations so what
should be the simplest most efficient advancement of civilization is..
TEACHING the practical, pragmatic, common sense value of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

That applies to corporations, to "greedy" evil wall street.. to manufacturers,etc.
If a major effort to change the perception of the Golden Rule from strictly theological to "LOGICAL" practical adherence to the laws of
physics.. i.e. DON"T TEXT and Drive! Don't do it because it is against the law but it is against a higher law.. physics!@!!!!
And the laws of physics are really engrained in the Golden Rule.. "don't push someone if you don't want to be pushed!"
Don't cheat on your taxes unless you want others to cheat also! Don't drink and drive because you are physically impaired!

And back these up with concrete real examples!
NO amount of cameras, GPS,etc.. will work as well as educated, considerate, people adhering to the Golden Rule!

So schools do not teach reciprocity? I am pretty sure that most do.

WeLL obviously it isn't very effective!
Your 4 year old pre-schooler is pumped full of "greening" "global warming" platitudes, memes as the advertisers push their "green" cars,etc...
Every one I mean EVERYONE knows about bringing your re-usable bag and don't use those hateful plastic environmentally bad bags!
MY point which obviously "reciprocity"..Reciprocity in social psychology refers to responding to a positive action with another positive action, rewarding kind actions."
is MISSING is the common daily practical values that ARE NOT ALTRUISTIC and noble or theological of the Golden Rule is NOT being taught!
Again.. I asked my 13 year old granddaughter why one shouldn't drive 40mph in a 20mph zone and her response "it's against the law".. YES but WHY leads people to understand the speed zone tells us that is the SAFEST speed because of the laws of physics i.e. can't see the kid darting out behind the parked car!

Simple. Common sense education not "reciprocity" is NOT being taught! You don't text and drive because the law of physics not the laws of man!

Once people start to understand the fundamental law that you can't break the LAWS of physics then we won't be so dependent on the laws of man!

I know when I was in school, we were taught to think about what it would be like to be Anne Frank, or Linda Brown, or what it would be like to be in a wheelchair, etc. I don't know if they taught that stuff in every corner of the country. I also remember that they tried to teach us to think critically. Some kids had the knack, and others not so much.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Well yes, actually, regulation is why the USSR and Red China failed, why so many blacks are in jail, and why we had the Great Depression and current recession, for example. A liberal lacks the IQ to know that regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and so on until you have capitalism wherein everyone is a regulator based on the shopping decisions millions of regulator shoppers make every day! It is the most through and effective regulation there is; it's called capitalist regulation. Its why we're the richest people in human history and the world's moral policeman too.

Jefferson said it better than I can:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings[regulators] to govern him? Let history answer this question". -Thomas Jefferson

Doesn't the idea of corporate America having unchecked power frighten you? Can you imagine what kind of damage they can do for the sake profit? We need regulation.

Your view is a little radical really. Even Mitt Romney believes regulation is necessary.

The idea of unchecked governemt power is much more frightening.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Well yes, actually, regulation is why the USSR and Red China failed, why so many blacks are in jail, and why we had the Great Depression and current recession, for example. A liberal lacks the IQ to know that regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and so on until you have capitalism wherein everyone is a regulator based on the shopping decisions millions of regulator shoppers make every day! It is the most through and effective regulation there is; it's called capitalist regulation. Its why we're the richest people in human history and the world's moral policeman too.

Jefferson said it better than I can:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings[regulators] to govern him? Let history answer this question". -Thomas Jefferson

Doesn't the idea of corporate America having unchecked power frighten you? Can you imagine what kind of damage they can do for the sake profit? We need regulation.

Your view is a little radical really. Even Mitt Romney believes regulation is necessary.

The idea of unchecked governemt power is much more frightening.

To a brainwashed Marxist liberal Hitler Stalin and Mao are nothing compared to unchecked corporations. After all, corporations do horrendous things like invent Iphones and CAT scanners.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Well yes, actually, regulation is why the USSR and Red China failed, why so many blacks are in jail, and why we had the Great Depression and current recession, for example. A liberal lacks the IQ to know that regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and so on until you have capitalism wherein everyone is a regulator based on the shopping decisions millions of regulator shoppers make every day! It is the most through and effective regulation there is; it's called capitalist regulation. Its why we're the richest people in human history and the world's moral policeman too.

Jefferson said it better than I can:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings[regulators] to govern him? Let history answer this question". -Thomas Jefferson

The Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to enact regulatory measures, both intra- and interstate, of all markets regardless size. See, e.g., West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish (1937), US v. Darby (1941), Wickard v. Filburn (1942), Gonzales v. Raich (2005).

It is reactionary and naïve to believe the ‘invisible hand’ alone is sufficient to regulate markets in a modern 21st Century First World industrialized super power such as the United States, where markets function not only in a National economy, but a global economy.

In Parrish, for example, the Court accurately noted that well into the 20th Century, the relationship between employee and employer was no longer a relationship of equals, and regulatory measure with regard to working conditions and compensation were both Constitutionally appropriate and warranted.

As for Jefferson, the Framers did not speak with one voice, they were not of a single mind. Although the courts may consider the statements of the Framers when considering a given issue, such statements alone do not manifest the force of law, they must be evaluated in the context of other relevant facts, evidence, and case law.

 

[Agit8r]

Maybe instead of regulation as we know it, we just need to punish wrongdoers with severe criminal penalties.

If all the Libor manipulators were treated like Bernie Madoff, we wouldn't have to worry as much about financial catastrophes.

Regulation was obviously too toothless to prevent the owners of Adair Grain West Fertilizer from reported stored explosive materials on-site for the public record. But if they were charged with 2-20 years for the criminally negligent homicide of each worker, firefighter and town resident killed, you can bet this wouldn't happen again.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Maybe instead of regulation as we know it, we just need to punish wrongdoers with severe criminal penalties.

If all the Libor manipulators were treated like Bernie Madoff, we wouldn't have to worry as much about financial catastrophes.

Regulation was obviously too toothless to prevent the owners of Adair Grain West Fertilizer from reported stored explosive materials on-site for the public record. But if they were charged with 2-20 years for the criminally negligent homicide of each worker, firefighter and town resident killed, you can bet this wouldn't happen again.

too stupid and 100% liberal !! Again with the magical communist belief in regulators!! Who will regulate the regulators?? Why did China just switch to deregulated capitalism and see far more wealth than ever in its history?? Red China and the USSR were very very regulated and 100 million slowly starved to death. Get it now???

You ought to read the story of the Duponts. Half of them got killed as they learned how to store and make gunpowder. A regulator would have over regulated and we'd have no gunpowder or underregulated so that public housing would have been built near the factories. Over your head??

As a liberal you believe in regulators with all the IQ of a child believing in Santa Claus

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Jefferson was for very very tiny government!!!!

Yet another fallacy. Is this the "integrity honestly" we can expect?

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Well, the words of his political ally at that time may help you understand:

"Of all occupations those are the least desirable in a free state which produce the most servile dependence of one class of citizens on another class. This dependence must increase as the mutuality of wants is diminished. Where the wants on one side are the absolute necessaries and on the other are neither absolute necessaries, nor result from the habitual economy of life, but are the mere caprices of fancy"
-- James Madison; "Fashion" National Gazette (March, 20, 1792)

"One of the divisions consists of those who, from particular interest, from natural temper, or from the habits of life, are more partial to the opulent than to the other classes of society; and having debauched themselves into a persuasion that mankind are incapable of governing themselves, it follows with them, of course, that government can be carried on only by the pageantry of rank, the influence of money and emoluments, and the terror of military force. Men of those sentiments must naturally wish to point the measures of government less to the interest of the many than of a few, and less to the reason of the many than to their weaknesses; hoping perhaps in proportion to the ardor of their zeal, that by giving such a turn to the administration, the government itself may by degrees be narrowed into fewer hands and approximated to a hereditary form"
-- James Madison; from 'A Candid State of Parties' (Sept 22, 1792)

I hope this helps. I really do.

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

 

[Agit8r]

Jefferson was for very very tiny government!!!!




you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Well, the words of his political ally at that time may help you understand:

"Of all occupations those are the least desirable in a free state which produce the most servile dependence of one class of citizens on another class. This dependence must increase as the mutuality of wants is diminished. Where the wants on one side are the absolute necessaries and on the other are neither absolute necessaries, nor result from the habitual economy of life, but are the mere caprices of fancy"
-- James Madison; "Fashion" National Gazette (March, 20, 1792)

"One of the divisions consists of those who, from particular interest, from natural temper, or from the habits of life, are more partial to the opulent than to the other classes of society; and having debauched themselves into a persuasion that mankind are incapable of governing themselves, it follows with them, of course, that government can be carried on only by the pageantry of rank, the influence of money and emoluments, and the terror of military force. Men of those sentiments must naturally wish to point the measures of government less to the interest of the many than of a few, and less to the reason of the many than to their weaknesses; hoping perhaps in proportion to the ardor of their zeal, that by giving such a turn to the administration, the government itself may by degrees be narrowed into fewer hands and approximated to a hereditary form"
-- James Madison; from 'A Candid State of Parties' (Sept 22, 1792)

I hope this helps. I really do.

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Repeating an absurd question doesn't make it any less absurd. I recommend that you read their own writings before jumping to any more conclusions.

 

[Agit8r]

Maybe instead of regulation as we know it, we just need to punish wrongdoers with severe criminal penalties.

If all the Libor manipulators were treated like Bernie Madoff, we wouldn't have to worry as much about financial catastrophes.

Regulation was obviously too toothless to prevent the owners of Adair Grain West Fertilizer from reported stored explosive materials on-site for the public record. But if they were charged with 2-20 years for the criminally negligent homicide of each worker, firefighter and town resident killed, you can bet this wouldn't happen again.

too stupid and 100% liberal !! Again with the magical communist belief in regulators!! Who will regulate the regulators?? Why did China just switch to deregulated capitalism and see far more wealth than ever in its history?? Red China and the USSR were very very regulated and 100 million slowly starved to death. Get it now???

You ought to read the story of the Duponts. Half of them got killed as they learned how to store and make gunpowder. A regulator would have over regulated and we'd have no gunpowder or underregulated so that public housing would have been built near the factories. Over your head??

As a liberal you believe in regulators with all the IQ of a child believing in Santa Claus

I see that your reading comprehension is a continual problem. My suggestion was that, since regulation hasn't been working, maybe we should try to disincentivize crime in the business sector in the same manner as other crime. It ought to be more effective on people who keenly understand reward and loss, than on the typical, neurologically challenged, criminal element.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

since regulation hasn't been working,[

you perfect idiot liberal!! We're the richest country in human history and the worlds moral policeman!!!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Well, the words of his political ally at that time may help you understand:

"Of all occupations those are the least desirable in a free state which produce the most servile dependence of one class of citizens on another class. This dependence must increase as the mutuality of wants is diminished. Where the wants on one side are the absolute necessaries and on the other are neither absolute necessaries, nor result from the habitual economy of life, but are the mere caprices of fancy"
-- James Madison; "Fashion" National Gazette (March, 20, 1792)

"One of the divisions consists of those who, from particular interest, from natural temper, or from the habits of life, are more partial to the opulent than to the other classes of society; and having debauched themselves into a persuasion that mankind are incapable of governing themselves, it follows with them, of course, that government can be carried on only by the pageantry of rank, the influence of money and emoluments, and the terror of military force. Men of those sentiments must naturally wish to point the measures of government less to the interest of the many than of a few, and less to the reason of the many than to their weaknesses; hoping perhaps in proportion to the ardor of their zeal, that by giving such a turn to the administration, the government itself may by degrees be narrowed into fewer hands and approximated to a hereditary form"
-- James Madison; from 'A Candid State of Parties' (Sept 22, 1792)

I hope this helps. I really do.

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Repeating an absurd question doesn't make it any less absurd. I recommend that you read their own writings before jumping to any more conclusions.

dear, you say its absurd to ask why Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1973????????????????????????

No one is as slow as a liberal!!!!

 

[Agit8r]

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Repeating an absurd question doesn't make it any less absurd. I recommend that you read their own writings before jumping to any more conclusions.

dear, you say its absurd to ask why Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1973????????????????????????

No one is as slow as a liberal!!!!

In order to promote republicanism of monarchy. All you have to do is look at his (and co-founder Madison's) actions as president. They bailed out Napoleon once with the Louisiana Purchase, and once with the War of 1812.

"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots... In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, & shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)

"Our present enemy... may burn NewYork, indeed, by her ships and congreve rockets, in which case we must burn the city of London by hired incendiaries, of which her starving manufacturers will furnish abundance. A people in such desperation as to demand of their government aut parcem, aut furcam, either bread or the gallows, will not reject the same alternative when offered by a foreign hand. Hunger will make them brave every risk for bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Thaddeus Kosciusko (June 28, 1812)

"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Repeating an absurd question doesn't make it any less absurd. I recommend that you read their own writings before jumping to any more conclusions.

dear, you say its absurd to ask why Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1973????????????????????????

No one is as slow as a liberal!!!!

In order to promote republicanism of monarchy. All you have to do is look at his (and co-founder Madison's) actions as president. They bailed out Napoleon once with the Louisiana Purchase, and once with the War of 1812.

"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots... In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, & shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)

"Our present enemy... may burn NewYork, indeed, by her ships and congreve rockets, in which case we must burn the city of London by hired incendiaries, of which her starving manufacturers will furnish abundance. A people in such desperation as to demand of their government aut parcem, aut furcam, either bread or the gallows, will not reject the same alternative when offered by a foreign hand. Hunger will make them brave every risk for bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Thaddeus Kosciusko (June 28, 1812)

"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Do you run from the most basic question in American history to show your complete ignorance.

 

[Agit8r]

since regulation hasn't been working,[

you perfect idiot liberal!! We're the richest country in human history and the worlds moral policeman!!!!

Since you brought up China, you should know how they handled their Melamine infant poisoning scandal.

ExecutedToday.com » 2009: Zhang Yujun and Geng Jinping, for tainted milk

If Texans don't demand at least the severest criminal penalties allowed by law, they must be pussies.

 

[Agit8r]

dear, you say its absurd to ask why Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1973????????????????????????

No one is as slow as a liberal!!!!

In order to promote republicanism of monarchy. All you have to do is look at his (and co-founder Madison's) actions as president. They bailed out Napoleon once with the Louisiana Purchase, and once with the War of 1812.

"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots... In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, & shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)

"Our present enemy... may burn NewYork, indeed, by her ships and congreve rockets, in which case we must burn the city of London by hired incendiaries, of which her starving manufacturers will furnish abundance. A people in such desperation as to demand of their government aut parcem, aut furcam, either bread or the gallows, will not reject the same alternative when offered by a foreign hand. Hunger will make them brave every risk for bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Thaddeus Kosciusko (June 28, 1812)

"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)

you perfect idiot!!! what did Jefferson found the Republican party for in 1793 if not for very very limited government?????????????????????????

Do you run from the most basic question in American history to show your complete ignorance.

You asked and I answered. They founded it to suppress monarchy and to promote jacobinism. That is what the evidence shows.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You asked and I answered. They founded it to suppress monarchy

what monarchy??????

 

[Agit8r]

You asked and I answered. They founded it to suppress monarchy

what monarchy??????

There were various fears at the time. One of them was that under Hamiltonian policies, republicanism would "by degrees be narrowed into fewer hands and approximated to a hereditary form." Another was that foreign monarchs would use the influence of trade to subvert republicanism.

Jeffersonians were wary of making any friendly treaties with the English, and favored a foreign policy that favored France.

"I have a strong attachment for the French Republic, more especially because they have founded their Constitution on principles similar to our own, and upon which alone, I think, free and lawful governments must be founded."
-- Samuel Adams; from letter to George Clinton (December 24th, 1793)