Can any American of integrity honestly be against regulation?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

One of them was that under Hamiltonian policies, republicanism would "by degrees be narrowed into fewer hands and approximated to a hereditary form."

Ah good, now you can see that our Founding was Republican and that liberal regulators belong in Cuba or the old USSR- right? Now you can see why our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb- right???

Thomas Jefferson:

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor (read-taxes) and bread it has earned --
this is the sum of good government.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government.

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.

 

[Interpol]

Fallacy

Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Regulation Caused the Subprime Crisis"

Who can say with a straight face that Fanny, Freddie, CRA, Fed, SEC, FHA,FDIC, didn't cause the recession when they were 100% regulating the housing industry????????????????

No, Fanny and Freddie represented only a mere fraction of the investments that failed.

It was rampant deregulation of the credit-lending industry to allow derivatives trading and other things that caused it.

We had a wedge in the law that kept us from slipping ever since the time we had written it some 70 or so years ago. When we took the wedge out, the collapse happened.

And it happened because of the sin of greed.

Fanny and Freddie are simply strawmen for people who refuse to see the big picture. They did not represent the biggest slice of the pie.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No, Fanny and Freddie represented only a mere fraction of the investments that failed.

you perfect liberal idiot. Fanny and Freddie were only 2 of 7 that I mentioned and all were heavily involved in getting people into homes that the Republican free market said they could not afford!! And, since Fan Fred had cheaper rates they took all the safe mortgages and forced subprime on everyone else!!!


Fannie and Freddie bought 25.2% of the record $272.81 billion in subprime MBS [mortgage-backed securities] sold in the first half of 2006, according to Inside Mortgage Finance Publications, a Bethesda, MD-based publisher that covers the home loan industry.

In 2005, Fannie and Freddie purchased 35.3% of all subprime MBS, the publication estimated. The year before, the two purchased almost 44% of all subprime MBS sold.

In addition, lawmakers in both parties enacted policies directed at increasing home ownership rates, resulting in lower mortgage underwriting standards for Fannie and Freddie. Roberts notes that from 2000 on, Fannie and Freddie bought loans with low FICO scores, loans with very low down payments, and loans with little or no documentation

 

[numan]

'
Can any American of integrity honestly be against regulation?

Where in the world do you think you are going to find an American of integrity? · ·
.

 

[numan]

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Oh, yeah, sure -- when pigs fly!! · ·
.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Oh, yeah, sure -- when pigs fly!! · ·
.

Who can say with a straight face that Fanny, Freddie, CRA, Fed, SEC, FHA,FDIC, didn't cause the recession when they were 100% regulating the housing industry????????????????

 

[PaulS1950]

We have laws, we don't need regulations too. If someone breaks the law they should be tried, convicted and sentenced based on the severity of their crime. we should not give tax money to corporations nor should we give it to individuals. If I want to support a business I will buy their product or service. If I want to support an individual I will help them with their needs.
Government has an obligation to use federal money on those things that affect the entire country not individuals or businesses.

 

[FA_Q2]

Well yes, actually, regulation is why the USSR and Red China failed, why so many blacks are in jail, and why we had the Great Depression and current recession, for example. A liberal lacks the IQ to know that regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and so on until you have capitalism wherein everyone is a regulator based on the shopping decisions millions of regulator shoppers make every day! It is the most through and effective regulation there is; it's called capitalist regulation. Its why we're the richest people in human history and the world's moral policeman too.

Jefferson said it better than I can:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings[regulators] to govern him? Let history answer this question". -Thomas Jefferson

Doesn't the idea of corporate America having unchecked power frighten you? Can you imagine what kind of damage they can do for the sake profit? We need regulation.

Your view is a little radical really. Even Mitt Romney believes regulation is necessary.

VERY much so. That is why I am against 99% of all regulation. You see, it is regulation that creates that centralized power in corporations. You erroneously believe that the regulators are providing us with that protection.

That was, of course, the original intent BUT because we did not stop there it has been changed into something far worse. Now regulation are so vast and common that the number of nails in a pice of drywall needs an inspector to examine, the temperature of a sink that is never used at a gas station is regulated and inspected, your meat undergoes a thousand codes and is inspected before it gets to you (and if you care to actually look at what happens to your meat before it gets to you I imagine that appalled would not cover how you feel).

The sad truth is that regulators now exist in two capacities, the first being the justification of their own existence. If you ever had to deal with regulators before, you would know that they don’t even know their job. They are guessing half the time because no one, and I mean NO ONE, knows even a small portion of the regulations that they are supposed to enforce. Every desk jockey is wrangling to create that next regulation or the next paragraph that is going to get them that promotion and sound great on the annual review or whatever that particular sector uses in its place. No one really cares if the regulation works or if it is applied well, just that it justifies the fact that individual was getting a paycheck in the first place. These regulators help large companies by regulating competition out of the market.

Essentially, bloated bureaucracy is always battling with economy of scale in any business. A small business is extremely efficient (if ran properly) because there is no bureaucracy and your talent is on the ground making things happen. 9 times out of 10, they can beat the big business hands down EXCEPT for the big business has one advantage here: scale. They can get things cheaper and in large quantities as well as eat large losses for short periods of time. This battle must strike a balance and is the heart of a healthy economy. Those businesses that grow too large eventually collapse in on themselves. Pointless regulations though screw this up. It drives the efficiency of the small business out, ruins their ability to compete as the larger business can simple eat the costs spreading it over massive amounts of produce and worst of all creates a HUGE barrier to entering the market. Try and start a bank, good luck because it simply is not going to happen. That is an extremely difficult industry to get into and the large banks enjoy not only freedom from real competition but also free government monies that you don’t have access too.

The second type of regulator is the one owned by the companies that they regulate. You know that this not only happens but that it is sought after. After all, of you are in a highly technical field then the only real experts are already employed by the various companies that are designing and selling those products. Then, all you have left is to pick them up as regulators as well. Between that and lobbying, you all but ensure that regulators work for the COMPANIES far more often than you.

At the end of all this, what we are left with is the fact that bloated bureaucratic regulatory agencies give companies MORE POWER, not less. That is the really scary part, you know to fear the absolute power of a corporatocracy but you just don’t realize that regulatory agencies are one of the cornerstones in one.

We need basic regulation for the protection of our legal rights, what we have surpasses that a thousand thousand times over.

 

[FA_Q2]

Fallacy

Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Regulation Caused the Subprime Crisis"

Who can say with a straight face that Fanny, Freddie, CRA, Fed, SEC, FHA,FDIC, didn't cause the recession when they were 100% regulating the housing industry????????????????

No, Fanny and Freddie represented only a mere fraction of the investments that failed.

It was rampant deregulation of the credit-lending industry to allow derivatives trading and other things that caused it.

We had a wedge in the law that kept us from slipping ever since the time we had written it some 70 or so years ago. When we took the wedge out, the collapse happened.

And it happened because of the sin of greed.

Fanny and Freddie are simply strawmen for people who refuse to see the big picture. They did not represent the biggest slice of the pie.

That is ignoring so much though. F&F might not have been in the controlling share of the fallen mortgages but their existence (as well as the government’s willingness to bail out the rich) were the cornerstone in the recession.

You speak about the ‘wedge’ that did exist and was wiped out. The problem was not that wedge though, that was a symptom. The real problem is a broken system where a bank is able to make a bad mortgage and then, after taking a tidy profit, sell that toxic asset to a GSA or to a high value low information purchaser (such as mutual funds or other such investment portfolio where the people with the actual risk are not the ones making the decisions).

It was a double edged sword. I agree with deregulation. I don’t want all that burdensome bullshit on the banks BUT if you are going to deregulate you DO NOT TAKE ASSUME THE RISK for the lender. That was the problem. We ONLY deregulated the loan requirements but we never stopped to think that if we have no standards for putting our asses on the line then what’s to stop the banks from passing all that risk on? Further, the bankers miscalculated on the size because after the house of cards began to tumble, assets that should not have been toxic (the ones that those banks held onto) suddenly became so and a feedback loop essentially started. Prices drop, inventory increases because people abandoned their homes casing prices to drop further causing more people to….


BTW: it is not ‘because’ the sin of greed. That is an asinine claim. You don’t blame a jet falling out of the sky on gravity do you? Of course not. That rocket causing the wing to get blown off is the cause, not gravity. Gravity is just a simple reality. Greed is no different. Greed exists and is going nowhere. You do not get rid of greed. Hell, you don’t even control it. That is no different than attempting to control gravity. Instead, you HARNESS it. Use that reality to your advantage.

 

[Billo_Really]

Well yes, actually, regulation is why the USSR and Red China failed, why so many blacks are in jail, and why we had the Great Depression and current recession, for example. A liberal lacks the IQ to know that regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and so on until you have capitalism wherein everyone is a regulator based on the shopping decisions millions of regulator shoppers make every day! It is the most through and effective regulation there is; it's called capitalist regulation. Its why we're the richest people in human history and the world's moral policeman too.

Jefferson said it better than I can:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings[regulators] to govern him? Let history answer this question". -Thomas Jefferson

You shouldn't be talking about the IQ of others with such a dumbass post as that!

"...regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and those regulators need regulators and so on..."

That is just stupid jibberish.

Are you still in middle school?

 

[Agit8r]

One of them was that under Hamiltonian policies, republicanism would "by degrees be narrowed into fewer hands and approximated to a hereditary form."

Ah good, now you can see that our Founding was Republican and that liberal regulators belong in Cuba or the old USSR- right? Now you can see why our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb- right???

Thomas Jefferson:

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor (read-taxes) and bread it has earned --
this is the sum of good government.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government.

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.

The United Soviet Socialist Republic didn't regulate, because their was no private sector to regulate.

And the term republican did not mean the same thing to Jeffersonians as it did to the United Soviet Socialist Republic or the red party that uses the name today.

James Madison, "Spirit of Governments"

 

[g5000]

Fallacy

Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Regulation Caused the Subprime Crisis"

Who can say with a straight face that Fanny, Freddie, CRA, Fed, SEC, FHA,FDIC, didn't cause the recession when they were 100% regulating the housing industry????????????????

Careful, your mile wide ignorance is showing. Fannie and Freddie are not regulators. And the CRA had nothing to do with the subprime crash.

Nor did the FDIC.

And Bush shrank the SEC during the boom. One of only two government agencies he actually shrank, the other being the EPA. He grew the federal government astronomically, but shrank the SEC and EPA.

The SEC actually waived regulations for Wall Street, and these decisions led directly to the crash. I bet you don't even know what those decisions were.

"100% regulating the housing industry"...BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Please read the Commodities Futures Modernization Act and then come back here and explain why BANKS had to be exempted from state laws regulating CASINOS and BUCKET SHOPS. And explain why not one single states rights fanatic made so much as a whimper about it.

 

[g5000]

It was not the bad loans which created the crash. It was the complete and total deregulation of the derivatives built upon them which created a DEMAND for more loans to be made than there were viable borrowers with which to provide them. This demand for the derivative products made it inevitable that bad loans would be generated to meet it. This is not only a fact, it was actually predicted by several people who had more than half a brain in their heads. I myself profited handsomely from the stupidity of the Wall Street herd.

Section 117:

This Act shall supersede and preempt the application of any State or local law that prohibits or regulates gaming or the operation of bucket shops (other than antifraud provisions of general applicability) in the case of
(A) an electronic trading facility excluded under section 2(e) of this Act; and
(B) an agreement, contract, or transaction that is excluded from this Act under section 2(c), 2(d), 2(f ), or 2(g) of this Act or title IV of the Commodity Futures Modernization
Act of 2000, or exempted under section 2(h) or 4(c) of this Act (regardless of whether any such agreement, contract, or transaction is otherwise subject to this Act).

Section 408:

This title shall supersede and preempt the application of any State or local law that prohibits or regulates gaming or the operation of bucket shops (other than antifraud provisions of general applicability) in the case of
(1) a hybrid instrument that is predominantly a banking product; or
(2) a covered swap agreement.

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@lrrulesandstatutoryauthority/documents/file/ogchr5660.pdf


Not one states' rights fanatic made a sound about this Republican written bill.

Hmmmm...

I don't think most of the airheads calling themselves "conservatives" these days have a single clue just how much the federal government's power was expanded in size and scope under the Republican Congress in multiple arenas. Not a clue.

You might be stupid enough to believe deregulation is a shrinking of federal power, but you'd be dead wrong. As you can see, when the federal power usurps the states' power in order to legislatively tilt the playing field to the advantage of a select few, that is HUGELY abusive federal power. And look what it led to.

 

[numan]

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Oh, yeah, sure -- when pigs fly!! · ·

Who can say with a straight face that Fanny, Freddie, CRA, Fed, SEC, FHA,FDIC, didn't cause the recession when they were 100% regulating the housing industry????????????????

You completely missed the point.

I agree with you that the government and other sections of the American ruling classes are hell-bent to destroy American society and turn the people into slaves.

I was just pointing out that it is ridiculous to imagine that the uneducated, stupid, brainwashed and often clinically insane American people have the ability and the courage to do anything sensible to save themselves.
.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I agree with you that the government and other sections of the American ruling classes are hell-bent to destroy American society and turn the people into slaves.

too stupid!!!! conservatives, Republicans, and libertarians from Aristotle to Jefferson and Reagan were dedicated to freeing the people from government enslavement.

Do you really lack the IQ to understand that?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It was not the bad loans which created the crash. It was the complete and total deregulation of the derivatives built upon them which created a DEMAND for more loans to be made than there were viable borrowers with which to provide them.

how did it create more demand????????????????????????????
You of course have no idea what on earth you are talking about!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I don't think most of the airheads calling themselves "conservatives" these days have a single clue just how much the federal government's power was expanded in size and scope under the Republican Congress in multiple arenas. Not a clue.

dear, Republicans since Aristotle and Jefferson were for shrinking government, Democrats are for expanding it!!. You may be the only person on earth not to know that!!

Did you know Republicans sign the pledge, not Democrats?? Can you ask your Mom and Dad to help you figure out why??

 

[cutter]

13,000 pages of regulations for obama care and their still writing. A good lib thinks there are never enough regulations. They don't read them, don't know what's in them but it's not enough. They do know that with enough regulations they can always find one to control you.

 

[numan]

Republicans since Aristotle and Jefferson were for shrinking government....
You may be the only person on earth not to know that!!

Did you know Republicans sign the pledge, not Democrats??

DEFICITS DON'T MATTER ANYMORE !!
---President of Vice, Dick Cheney
.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Republicans since Aristotle and Jefferson were for shrinking government....
You may be the only person on earth not to know that!!

Did you know Republicans sign the pledge, not Democrats??

DEFICITS DON'T MATTER ANYMORE !!
---President of Vice, Dick Cheney
.

Did you know Republicans sign the pledge, not Democrats??

why not ask Mom and Pop to help you understand what that means???