Can Obama save the Democrats?

[Oddball]

It's very liberal of him to force people to purchase a product from corporations

Do you think Bernie would do that? One of the main disagreements between him and the Hildabeast was on Obamacare. He didn't like empowering the insurance cartels even more. He is very opposed to giant corporate power and the influence it has over politics. That seems like a pretty big difference from Obama and Hillary who are basically just corporate stooges.

People like to talk shit about Bernie being worth a few million dollars, but the man has been a senator for decades and had a very serious presidential run. He is one of the poorest people in D.C and he has been there for a very long time. He's one of the few people that right or wrong actually practices what they preach. He is rivaled only by the likes of Ron Paul when it comes to consistency over the years.

Batshit Bernie would impose all of his Marxist crap under the auspices of The State...Different cartel, same results.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So take issue with that seeing you are scared to even take a little bet...

Childsplay

I gamble for money on poker tables. That's it. Only fools gamble on things out of their control.

 

[Thinker101]

The DEMS have a problem in my view. Well, 2 problems. Republicans are able to view an election as a strategic undertaking and will vote for anyone who wins their nomination. Trump is not a conservative; not a family values supporter, generally a scumbag who worships one thing; the blob he sees in the mirror.

From 8 years ago, this is a massive change in Republican demographics. Their voters have zero principles and are just dumb enough to believe what they are told.

The DEMS on the other hand, look at elections as if you get some sort of medal for not getting your party’s nomination that matters. Bernier supporters in particular.

The other problem is this…

I often listen to podcasts. One is “Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me” which is a comedic quiz show on NPR. During one of the set-ups to their bluff the listener segment, the host stated something to the effect that you can’t go on a good vacation for $5,000.00. I looked at the radio in my car with my mouth open really astounded that they actually said that. I know it’s a comedy show but the set-up isn’t meant to be a punch line. Also, one time the hosts of another show were talking about their reactions to Notre Dame burning down. All of them had visited the cathedral “numerous times”. While it’s no big deal, it seems to me that this is a symptom of elitist positioning. The broadcast was’t meant to be political but it is a symptom of what is; the dreaded “out of touch” label.

Actually Dems have 3 problems. No candidates, no platform and no clue.

Yours is a silly and not surprisingly stupid assessment. They will have nominee, they have a platform, and cluelessness is relative.

The only question that matters is if they can get the vote out in WI, MI, PA.

Yep, they will have a candidate, not a very good candidate, but they will have one. A platform? What is their platform...free shit for all platform or I hate Trump platform?

I hate Trump may be enough since he is so despised by all who haven’t drank the kool aid. LOL

Good platform, run with that....dumbass.

 

[Confounding]

Batshit Bernie would impose all of his Marxist crap under the auspices of The State...Different cartel, same results.

I'll take Batshit Bernie who does his best to be honest and consistent over Obama or Hitlery who are in the pockets of our true enemies any day of the week. We need real people, real populists over these partisan stooges, and that's true of both sides. That's why even as somebody that leans left I'd take Trump over Hillary. I'm disappointed that so many of you don't see the importance of the difference between Bernie and Hillary.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

So take issue with that seeing you are scared to even take a little bet...

Childsplay

I gamble for money on poker tables. That's it. Only fools gamble on things out of their control.

So you know you will lose... Got it...

 

[JoeB131]

Think about this for a minute genius Have you ever heard of an independent that claims to be economically liberal and socially conservative? There are maybe 100 independents that would make that claim.

Nope, never heard of that. I usually hear the opposite from guys like "Vichy Mac" who claim to be socially liberal and economically conservative.

The reality- Economic Conservatism has been RAT POISON for the middle class. The only way to sell that shit has been to get the rubes in Jesusland all upset about Abortion or Mexicans or gay marriage... and then impose anti-worker, union-busting laws and huge tax cuts for the rich that eventually the working class ends up paying.

The economic policies of today's liberals is akin to that of an 8th grader running for class president promising free pizza on Fridays. He doesn't care who pays for the pizza and the kids voting for him aren't mature enough to even know that is a concern. Democrats of today are either a) economically illiterate b) don't have any skin in the game and don't care if the standard of living drops for working people if it helps the non-working people or c) are in the elite class and hope to control poor serfs.

That's fucking retarded. The reality is, we are already paying for the Pizza. The thing is, we pay 17% of GDP for health care with the worst results. So what the kid is proposing is that everyone gets pizza and we don't pay as much for it because we don't have six middle-man in the way to get that pizza to the desk. As opposed to only 75% of kids getting pizza at twice the cost of the kids in the school next door.

We spend more on education and health care than any other industrialized country, and we are the dumbest and unhealthiest people in the industrialized world.

 

[Oddball]

Batshit Bernie would impose all of his Marxist crap under the auspices of The State...Different cartel, same results.

I'll take Batshit Bernie who does his best to be honest and consistent over Obama or Hitlery who are in the pockets of our true enemies any day of the week.

They're all the enemies of the individual....Being more (relatively) honest about it is of no consequence when the result is the same.

 

[Mac1958]

When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.

So, bang, here we are. Obama sees it, too: Obama looms over divided Democratic primary

So, can Obama save the party?

His latest remarks came last week as Obama met with party donors in California, where he urged Democrats to “chill out” about the primary contest and prepare to rally behind the eventual nominee. But he also appeared to warn against calling for too drastic of change.

“When you listen to the average voter — even ones who aren’t stalwart Democrats, but who are more independent or are low-information voters — they don’t feel that things are working well, but they’re also nervous about changes that might take away what little they have,” Obama said.

For some Democrats, Obama’s remarks reinforced their concerns that the primary field has lurched too far to the left and that the party may be barreling toward a loss in 2020 unless it can unite behind a moderate nominee capable of appealing to a broader swath of voters in the general election.

“I think that to some extent Obama is the canary in the coal mine,” said Dick Harpootlian, a former chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party who is supporting former Vice President Joe Biden’s presidential bid. “He’s warning Democrats that if you buy an agenda that is not relevant or salable in November, you’re guaranteeing Donald Trump a second term.”
.

Is Mac suggesting he will be voting for the extreme left anyway?

Mac is so confusing. He claims he is against Trump's spending. Yet, he votes for democrats and will vote for any democrat. Even the ones proposing a $93 trillion dollar new green deal AND Medicare for all. Get that? Against Trump spending and votes for democrats.

He claims he hates identity politics and votes for democrats. Now, he is seemingly suggesting that obama was not an extreme leftist? That he did not engage in identity politics. That is the only thing the democrats have used for 50 years. They have been socialists since Woodrow Wilson.

Is there a bigger example of what a deranged hypocritical extreme leftist than Mac. Is it the lies that he tells us or the ones he tells himself that creeps you out more about Mac?

I know my politics confuse you. They're not terribly complicated, but they flummox you terribly.

I don't how to fix that. Plus, I know you're going to fabricate my positions anyway, so I don't know what to tell you.

Can't help you. Sorry.
.

What exactly am I getting wrong? Be specific.

Watch now folks as Mac obfuscates and then accuses me of obfuscating. You know, as he obfuscates.

He still thinks someone like me who proclaims I am a disgraceful sinner is being a hypocrite when I proclaim that I am disgraceful sinner.

Do you think Mac needs help? I will admit I need it. No doubt.

Is Mac certifiable though? He is weird.

Yes, I know you think I'm "weird".

I have no need to obfuscate, I just know that trying to communicate with nutters is pointless.

Here. Absolutely, 100% full disclosure, no obfuscation. This is the second line of my sig, linked to a thread in which I disembowel a Regressive Lefty. My positions on the issues are made quite clear: 2. >>> For the liars who pretend I claim to be a centrist/moderate/impartial/unbiased/fence-sitter: Come on Jake, man up, just this once.

Do you have the balls to read it? If you do, you'll know your "extreme leftist" silliness is just more nutter dishonesty.

Or will you obfuscate?
.

Abortion
Mac: Pro choice, open to ban on late term abortions
---------------------
"Open" to ban on late term abortions? Good, good for you.

Boy, that is some assertiveness there.

Health Care
Mac: Expand the Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system to all
-------------------------
Expanding medicare? Supplement medicare advantage system to all?

You have any specifics there like cost and how much you are willing to expand?


Immigration
Mac: Legalize 'em, put 'em at end of line for citizenship, seal the borders
---------------------
The party you vote for is not for sealing anything. Put them in back of the line? Trump was trying to do that and aoc went down there and fake cried at an empty lot while lying that that they were drinking out of toilets.

Gay Marriage
Mac: Pro gay marriage

---------------------

Ok.

War/Foreign Policy
Mac: We are not the policeman of the world, get out of the Middle East now

---------------------
So, you were on the side of Trump when he did that? Not sure you have any rudimentary understanding of logistical realities.

Personal Income Taxes
Mac: Add four new, higher tax margins up to 54.9%, install META (my term, Minimum Effective Tax Rate)

------------------------
Do you think there will ever be something passed that the democrats will pass that will not have loopholes for themselves or individuals that donate big money to their party? When the rich INDIVIDUALS pull money out and hide overseas or under other tax shelters, what do you suppose then happens to the stock market?

Corporate Income Taxes
Mac: Decrease to 15% with a 5% META; two-year tax moratorium on repatriated money

---------------------
Nobody in your party is running on that or wants that. Trump doea.

Political Correctness
Mac: Virulently anti-PC because it is destructive, cowardly, dishonest and divisive

----------------------
Everything your party runs on is based on political correctness.

Identity Politics
Mac: Virulently against because it is destructive, cowardly, dishonest and divisive

---------------------
Everything your party runs on is based on identity politics.

Unions
Mac: Need reform; maintain safety standards and current benefits, eliminate inefficient rules and after-work pensions

------------------------
Unions started out with good intentions, but then of course big money, bribes and corruption is the only reality with most unions. It is the union HEADS that truly benefit from today's reality and the party you vote for will not be doing any reforms with unions.

Gun Control
Mac: Agree with mainstream Democrat approach of reasonable restrictions and expectations
----------------------------
Explain reasonable and provide some logistic realities. Your brethren wants all guns banned. So, what realistic plan do you have. There are some 300 million guns in circulation. Get them from just the white law abiding citizens with threats of prison time. Over 200 million legal gun owners. Those are the givens, now give me your solutions.

Your claim that I'm an "extreme lefty" is fantasy, and I proved it.

If you want to discuss individual issues, start a thread and tag me.

This thread is about something different.
.

 

[candycorn]

The DEMS have a problem in my view. Well, 2 problems. Republicans are able to view an election as a strategic undertaking and will vote for anyone who wins their nomination. Trump is not a conservative; not a family values supporter, generally a scumbag who worships one thing; the blob he sees in the mirror.

From 8 years ago, this is a massive change in Republican demographics. Their voters have zero principles and are just dumb enough to believe what they are told.

The DEMS on the other hand, look at elections as if you get some sort of medal for not getting your party’s nomination that matters. Bernier supporters in particular.

The other problem is this…

I often listen to podcasts. One is “Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me” which is a comedic quiz show on NPR. During one of the set-ups to their bluff the listener segment, the host stated something to the effect that you can’t go on a good vacation for $5,000.00. I looked at the radio in my car with my mouth open really astounded that they actually said that. I know it’s a comedy show but the set-up isn’t meant to be a punch line. Also, one time the hosts of another show were talking about their reactions to Notre Dame burning down. All of them had visited the cathedral “numerous times”. While it’s no big deal, it seems to me that this is a symptom of elitist positioning. The broadcast was’t meant to be political but it is a symptom of what is; the dreaded “out of touch” label.

Actually Dems have 3 problems. No candidates, no platform and no clue.

Yours is a silly and not surprisingly stupid assessment. They will have nominee, they have a platform, and cluelessness is relative.

The only question that matters is if they can get the vote out in WI, MI, PA.

Yep, they will have a candidate, not a very good candidate, but they will have one. A platform? What is their platform...free shit for all platform or I hate Trump platform?

I hate Trump may be enough since he is so despised by all who haven’t drank the kool aid. LOL

Good platform, run with that....dumbass.

We shall see. I doubt the DEMs will muster enough support to win on that alone but it only has to happen in 3 states or so.

 

[Confounding]

Being more honest is of no consequence when the result is the same.

I don't think Obama/Hillary and Bernie would take us down the same road. There are important differences, a large one being that Bernie actually has a soul and a genuine desire to do good. He's not just a corporate puppet.

 

[JoeB131]

Hmmm... how do you explain that fact that we're currently at full employment ?

Mostly, demographics... We have 360,000 baby boomers retiring every month... we aren't generating enough new workers - even with immigration - to fill the vacancies. This process probably should have started in 2011, when the first Baby Boomers started hitting 65, but the Great Recession (Thanks, Bush!) delayed a lot of retirements when people lost their savings.

This is awesome for employees... but not so much for the economy as a whole.

Eventually, you get more people in the cart than pulling it.

The Labor Force Participation Rate is more telling... it hasn't really changed from its decline.

 

[Oddball]

Being more honest is of no consequence when the result is the same.

I don't think Obama/Hillary and Bernie would take us down the same road. There are important differences, a large one being that Bernie actually has a soul and a genuine desire to do good.

The end game is full State control....Oboingo even admitted it when he didn't think anyone was watching.



And if you think that a committed Marxist is interested in doing good for anyone more than himsself, there's this thing called "history" that you really need to get in touch with.

 

[berg80]

When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.

But you weren't concerned Trump's election marked a GOP takeover by the illiberal, authoritarian, bigoted, regressive Right?

 

[Mac1958]

When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.

But you weren't concerned Trump's election marked a GOP takeover by the illiberal, authoritarian, bigoted, regressive Right?

Of course I was. I voted against him. That's the point: That leaves us with a lousy choice next year.
.

 

[Votto]

No not a racist, you're just an anti-semitic fascist.

Again, the Zionists gave up any whining about Anti-Semitism when they started applying Fascist tactics to the Palestinians, who are also Semites...

Silly me, I don't think America has any business in a fight between two groups of Semites over who an Imaginary Sky Pixie promised a strip of desert to.

 

[Votto]

Really, Joey? Still going with the "can't trust Trump with the nukes cause he's CRAZY!" narrative?

Wall Street is "afraid" of Liz Warren because her economic policies will put us into a major recession and she really won't care!

Funny, you guys said the same thing about Obama, and funny thing... he got us out of the Bush Great Recession... but you were too busy being racist to notice...


NEXT!

Well who created this monster? It seems to me that Mr. Partisan shill who shoved a massive health care policy devoid of any Republican participation, Mr. RESIST at any cost has created the beast we have now. Oh, and I might add that this same democratic party is demanding to replace the health care system they all shoved down our collective throats and the ink is not even dry on the legislation. We tried to warn all of you ignorant fools.

You left out the part where the system that he supported was one Republicans advocated for years, until the Black Guy did it. Democrats always wanted Single Payer.... ACA was a compromise with the GOP and their masters in the Insurance industry... But it's like that movie where you make a shady deal with the bad guy and he screws you...

Every post you make references racism. What is your problem other than being dumber than a box of rocks?

His support of Oboingo means -in his mind- that he isn't racist....Classic tokenism.....And because he has the token, all who don't are racists by definition.

Bigot!

What do you have against tokenists?

 

[Pete7469]

Do you think Bernie would do that? One of the main disagreements between him and the Hildabeast was on Obamacare. He didn't like empowering the insurance cartels even more. He is very opposed to giant corporate power and the influence it has over politics. That seems like a pretty big difference from Obama and Hillary who are basically just corporate stooges.

People like to talk shit about Bernie being worth a few million dollars, but the man has been a senator for decades and had a very serious presidential run. He is one of the poorest people in D.C and he has been there for a very long time. He's one of the few people that right or wrong actually stays consistent. He is rivaled only by the likes of Ron Paul when it comes to consistency over the years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is love him or hate him Bernie is a true populist that actually believes the shit that comes out of his own mouth. Right or wrong he actually has heart, passion and a desire to do what he thinks is right. He's not some bought and paid for partisan stooge like Obama and Hillary. He's a different kind of beast and I think that matters. In my opinion even if you're right wing you should prefer a guy like Bernie over people like Hillary and Obama.

I totally agree, I've even posted about the fact that Bernie is as close to a true believer in socialism as you can find in DC, the rest are fascist pigs. I like Bernie over hitlery or the meat puppet solely on the basis that he has some integrity, while the the rest of them are self aggrandizing sociopaths.

I think Bernie would honestly try and make socialism work, and we would honestly go to shit like Venezuela.

.

 

[Theowl32]

When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.

But you weren't concerned Trump's election marked a GOP takeover by the illiberal, authoritarian, bigoted, regressive Right?

Of course I was. I voted against him. That's the point: That leaves us with a lousy choice next year.
.

So, just to be clear here. Trump is an authoritarian, and extremely bigoted?

That is your belief.

And you are against the blowback that you say you hate? See most of us that vote for Trump understand that the bumper sticker accusations from the left are just that.

Trump, in the public for 40+ years was never accused of racism and then he rode the escalator down in 2015 and he is worse than hitler.

I could swear you are agreeing with the left that accuse him of that. Do you? Do you agree is the biggest racist bigot since hitler?

We are all confused by you.

 

[JoeB131]

No not a racist, you're just an anti-semitic fascist.

Again, the Zionists gave up any whining about Anti-Semitism when they started applying Fascist tactics to the Palestinians, who are also Semites...

Silly me, I don't think America has any business in a fight between two groups of Semites over who an Imaginary Sky Pixie promised a strip of desert to.

Wow, you went full Godwin... never go full Godwin...

 

[Mac1958]

Do you think Bernie would do that? One of the main disagreements between him and the Hildabeast was on Obamacare. He didn't like empowering the insurance cartels even more. He is very opposed to giant corporate power and the influence it has over politics. That seems like a pretty big difference from Obama and Hillary who are basically just corporate stooges.

People like to talk shit about Bernie being worth a few million dollars, but the man has been a senator for decades and had a very serious presidential run. He is one of the poorest people in D.C and he has been there for a very long time. He's one of the few people that right or wrong actually stays consistent. He is rivaled only by the likes of Ron Paul when it comes to consistency over the years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is love him or hate him Bernie is a true populist that actually believes the shit that comes out of his own mouth. Right or wrong he actually has heart, passion and a desire to do what he thinks is right. He's not some bought and paid for partisan stooge like Obama and Hillary. He's a different kind of beast and I think that matters. In my opinion even if you're right wing you should prefer a guy like Bernie over people like Hillary and Obama.

I totally agree, I've even posted about the fact that Bernie is as close to a true believer in socialism as you can find in DC, the rest are fascist pigs. I like Bernie over hitlery or the meat puppet solely on the basis that he has some integrity, while the the rest of them are self aggrandizing sociopaths.

I think Bernie would honestly try and make socialism work, and we would honestly go to shit like Venezuela.

.

I think there are still enough lucid Democrats who know what has happened to the party. Plus, it would depend on the makeup of Congress. I don't see the Democrats getting nearly enough Bernie types elected.