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Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian? Personally, I'm in favor of an expansion of a public option so those who want to stay with employer based health care can. But I suspect the bargaining power gained by a public option will attract so many participants employer based policies may go by the wayside over time.Of course I was. I voted against him. That's the point: That leaves us with a lousy choice next year.But you weren't concerned Trump's election marked a GOP takeover by the illiberal, authoritarian, bigoted, regressive Right?When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.
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No, I think most of the authoritarianism coming from the Left is cultural, in the form of Political Correctness and Identity Politics and the intimidation and dishonesty that stems from that. That's not liberalism. So I call those who are pushing that stuff illiberal Leftist Authoritarians.Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian?
No, I think most of the authoritarianism coming from the Left is cultural, in the form of Political Correctness and Identity Politics and the intimidation and dishonesty that stems from that. That's not liberalism. So I call those who are pushing that stuff illiberal Leftist Authoritarians.Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian?
Regarding health care, I sure don't like seeing Bernie and the Democrats lie when they call what they actually want - Single Payer - "Medicare for All". The actual Medicare system includes a strong free market component that promotes competition and innovation with Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans. What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks.
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Of course not.No, I think most of the authoritarianism coming from the Left is cultural, in the form of Political Correctness and Identity Politics and the intimidation and dishonesty that stems from that. That's not liberalism. So I call those who are pushing that stuff illiberal Leftist Authoritarians.Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian?
Regarding health care, I sure don't like seeing Bernie and the Democrats lie when they call what they actually want - Single Payer - "Medicare for All". The actual Medicare system includes a strong free market component that promotes competition and innovation with Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans. What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks.
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"What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks."
berg80 ask Mac if he'd like this "expansion" to be extended to Mexico's citizens whom traverse our border?
Of course not.No, I think most of the authoritarianism coming from the Left is cultural, in the form of Political Correctness and Identity Politics and the intimidation and dishonesty that stems from that. That's not liberalism. So I call those who are pushing that stuff illiberal Leftist Authoritarians.Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian?
Regarding health care, I sure don't like seeing Bernie and the Democrats lie when they call what they actually want - Single Payer - "Medicare for All". The actual Medicare system includes a strong free market component that promotes competition and innovation with Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans. What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks.
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"What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks."
berg80 ask Mac if he'd like this "expansion" to be extended to Mexico's citizens whom traverse our border?
Unfortunately, you've already admitted that my view on that topic is just "smart guy mumbo jumbo", so I don't think I can help you.
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I don't recall, and don't care enough about your opinion to look it up. But I just gave you a direct answer to your direct question.Of course not.No, I think most of the authoritarianism coming from the Left is cultural, in the form of Political Correctness and Identity Politics and the intimidation and dishonesty that stems from that. That's not liberalism. So I call those who are pushing that stuff illiberal Leftist Authoritarians.Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian?
Regarding health care, I sure don't like seeing Bernie and the Democrats lie when they call what they actually want - Single Payer - "Medicare for All". The actual Medicare system includes a strong free market component that promotes competition and innovation with Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans. What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks.
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"What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks."
berg80 ask Mac if he'd like this "expansion" to be extended to Mexico's citizens whom traverse our border?
Unfortunately, you've already admitted that my view on that topic is just "smart guy mumbo jumbo", so I don't think I can help you.
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Oh okay..got it.
There's been lots of discussion about free healthcare for illegals and I couldn't recall you ever posting a condemnation of such lunacy in prior threads...I'm certain you can link us to atleast one...right?
I don't recall, and don't care enough about your opinion to look it up. But I just gave you a direct answer to your direct question.Of course not.No, I think most of the authoritarianism coming from the Left is cultural, in the form of Political Correctness and Identity Politics and the intimidation and dishonesty that stems from that. That's not liberalism. So I call those who are pushing that stuff illiberal Leftist Authoritarians.Just curious, do you view the democratization of health care as authoritarian?
Regarding health care, I sure don't like seeing Bernie and the Democrats lie when they call what they actually want - Single Payer - "Medicare for All". The actual Medicare system includes a strong free market component that promotes competition and innovation with Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans. What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks.
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"What I'd like to see is an expansion of the REAL Medicare system to all, with some tweaks."
berg80 ask Mac if he'd like this "expansion" to be extended to Mexico's citizens whom traverse our border?
Unfortunately, you've already admitted that my view on that topic is just "smart guy mumbo jumbo", so I don't think I can help you.
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Oh okay..got it.
There's been lots of discussion about free healthcare for illegals and I couldn't recall you ever posting a condemnation of such lunacy in prior threads...I'm certain you can link us to atleast one...right?
Hopefully you understood it.
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I would have thought that Obama had enough influence to change the party's course, but I'm not sure that will happen. And I'm sure if he knows, either.“He’s warning Democrats that if you buy an agenda that is not relevant or salable in November, you’re guaranteeing Donald Trump a second term.”
I think Obama is right about this, but I also think it's too late for them in 2020. The trajectory the Dems are on is an absolute political disaster and their party is fucked until somebody emerges from the moderate wing to combat the far left loons. I don't think Obama is the person though, he can't run for president again and they need an electable candidate to get behind that isn't bat-shit crazy with nonsensical ideas like the GND. A modern-day FDR if you will. I doubt that such a person could win the Dem primaries this time; maybe in 2024, we'll see how things go after they get their asses kicked.
Full disclosure: I ain't a Democrat and I ain't a Republican either for that matter. I have over my lifetime voted for both parties and also a time or two for a 3rd party person. I've never been happy with the choices (most of the time), but these days it always seems to be the lesser of two evils. I'll be very upfront and honest about it, I do not like Donald Trump. I don't like his personality or his character, and some of his decisions and policies are questionable. But on the whole, what he has done is in my estimation far better than what Clinton would have done and better than whoever the Dems nominate against him next year. Results are what counts, and despite all the distractions and nonsensical obstruction from the Dems he has done very well. And there is no way in hell I can vote for any of the Dems running on their side.
Now, the length of our process is part of the problem, where they are pretty much off and running after the midterms, while most of the middle that Vichy Mac longs for doesn't engage until after Labor Day before the election, and then votes for the guy they'd like to have a beer with.
Still looking for references to "far left" ideas in anything he said. He only referred to "change", period. He is basically telling them, "Just run on steadying the ship and against the current occupant", it appears.When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.
So, bang, here we are. Obama sees it, too: Obama looms over divided Democratic primary
So, can Obama save the party?
His latest remarks came last week as Obama met with party donors in California, where he urged Democrats to “chill out” about the primary contest and prepare to rally behind the eventual nominee. But he also appeared to warn against calling for too drastic of change.
“When you listen to the average voter — even ones who aren’t stalwart Democrats, but who are more independent or are low-information voters — they don’t feel that things are working well, but they’re also nervous about changes that might take away what little they have,” Obama said.
For some Democrats, Obama’s remarks reinforced their concerns that the primary field has lurched too far to the left and that the party may be barreling toward a loss in 2020 unless it can unite behind a moderate nominee capable of appealing to a broader swath of voters in the general election.
“I think that to some extent Obama is the canary in the coal mine,” said Dick Harpootlian, a former chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party who is supporting former Vice President Joe Biden’s presidential bid. “He’s warning Democrats that if you buy an agenda that is not relevant or salable in November, you’re guaranteeing Donald Trump a second term.”
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I think Obama is right about this, but I also think it's too late for them in 2020. The trajectory the Dems are on is an absolute political disaster and their party is fucked until somebody emerges from the moderate wing to combat the far left loons.
All that stuff is/was just standard bullshit partisan hyperbole.Still looking for references to "far left" ideas in anything he said. He only referred to "change", period. He is basically telling them, "Just run on steadying the ship and against the current occupant", it appears.When Trump won in 2016, I expressed concern that the blowback from the hardcore Left would be so strong that the Democratic Party would be taken over by the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left, leaving us with a truly fucked up choice in 2020.
So, bang, here we are. Obama sees it, too: Obama looms over divided Democratic primary
So, can Obama save the party?
His latest remarks came last week as Obama met with party donors in California, where he urged Democrats to “chill out” about the primary contest and prepare to rally behind the eventual nominee. But he also appeared to warn against calling for too drastic of change.
“When you listen to the average voter — even ones who aren’t stalwart Democrats, but who are more independent or are low-information voters — they don’t feel that things are working well, but they’re also nervous about changes that might take away what little they have,” Obama said.
For some Democrats, Obama’s remarks reinforced their concerns that the primary field has lurched too far to the left and that the party may be barreling toward a loss in 2020 unless it can unite behind a moderate nominee capable of appealing to a broader swath of voters in the general election.
“I think that to some extent Obama is the canary in the coal mine,” said Dick Harpootlian, a former chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party who is supporting former Vice President Joe Biden’s presidential bid. “He’s warning Democrats that if you buy an agenda that is not relevant or salable in November, you’re guaranteeing Donald Trump a second term.”
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Obama campaigned on free community college, covering evryone with health insurance, and raising taxes on the rich. He also got through a student loan forgiveness program, and called for something even bigger.This move out from under him has happened at lightning speed.
You'd have to ask Obama for his specifics. For him to bring this up is pretty telling. I'm sure it's not something he wants to do.Obama campaigned on free community college, covering evryone with health insurance, and raising taxes on the rich. He also got through a student loan forgiveness program, and called for something even bigger.This move out from under him has happened at lightning speed.
To which ideas, specifically, are you referring?
No, I am asking the guy who mentioned lurching to the far left and who started a thread on it. I don't find the idea crazy, but it doesn't seem to stand up under scrutinyYou'd have to ask Obama for his specifics.
Made me chuckle, that one.
On October 25, 2019, the House of Commons scheduled the next election for December 12, 2019. Barely five weeks ago there was the starting shot, and in less than two weeks it's going to be over.
Now... having what would be a 22 months marathon toward the presidential election makes sense, provided it would result in an astute, well-informed electorate. And after all that, and after billions spent on the educational effort, as you rightly say, they vote for the guy (definitely not the gal) with whom they'd like to have a beer. Or, failing that, for the guy who "sticks it to Them".
There is something utterly grotesque about it all.
Okay, here are a few of the promises being made:No, I am askimg the guy who mentioned lurching to the far left and who started a thread on it. I don't find the idea crazy, but it doesn't seem to stand up under scrutinyYou'd have to ask Obama for his specifics.
So, to which ideas were you referring?
I would have thought that Obama had enough influence to change the party's course, but I'm not sure that will happen. And I'm sure if he knows, either.“He’s warning Democrats that if you buy an agenda that is not relevant or salable in November, you’re guaranteeing Donald Trump a second term.”
I think Obama is right about this, but I also think it's too late for them in 2020. The trajectory the Dems are on is an absolute political disaster and their party is fucked until somebody emerges from the moderate wing to combat the far left loons. I don't think Obama is the person though, he can't run for president again and they need an electable candidate to get behind that isn't bat-shit crazy with nonsensical ideas like the GND. A modern-day FDR if you will. I doubt that such a person could win the Dem primaries this time; maybe in 2024, we'll see how things go after they get their asses kicked.
Full disclosure: I ain't a Democrat and I ain't a Republican either for that matter. I have over my lifetime voted for both parties and also a time or two for a 3rd party person. I've never been happy with the choices (most of the time), but these days it always seems to be the lesser of two evils. I'll be very upfront and honest about it, I do not like Donald Trump. I don't like his personality or his character, and some of his decisions and policies are questionable. But on the whole, what he has done is in my estimation far better than what Clinton would have done and better than whoever the Dems nominate against him next year. Results are what counts, and despite all the distractions and nonsensical obstruction from the Dems he has done very well. And there is no way in hell I can vote for any of the Dems running on their side.
This move out from under him has happened at lightning speed.
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