Can Obama save the Democrats?

[Olde Europe]

A couple of things have caused this grotesque marathon.

The first is the distortion of the primary system/ conventions. It used to be that the conventions were spaced out over the entire course of the summer, and usually nobody would go to the convention with enough delegates, so the convention would be where the candidates and platforms were chosen

Now, the candidate is pretty much chosen by Super Tuesday and the conventions are just tax-payer subsidized commercials for the two major parties. In order to compete in the primaries, you have to spend months getting the dedicated volunteers together months in advance, and of course, the insatiable need for money to compete. So this has extended the process, and because the most fanatical and dedicated are willing to put that much effort, you are more likely to get committed partisans than moderates... which I think is what Vichy Mac was bemoaning.

By my measure, the GOP Candidate never falls below 45% and the Democrat hasn't fallen below 48% since 1992.

Now, in Trump's defense, he really was a rejection of BOTH Party establishments.. Bernie was also rejection of the Democratic Party Establishment.... the fact is the parties themselves aren't resonating anymore. It's what guy can get your juices flowing.

Vichy Mac is bemoaning that Sanders might get the nomination and he'll be forced to vote for Trump.. a spurious argument, to be sure. I think what would be more surprising. The Democrats nominate Sanders and he beats Trump because he can speak to the dumb-ass white working class who realize they don't have a middle class lifestyle anymore.

That looks largely reasonable. My gripe still is, as long and arduous the process is until there's a winner declared, the electorate is none the smarter. There is, in my mind, little by way of an argument against the assertion, that is how the plutocracy wants it. A sheeple served with irrelevant nonsense, shiny objects, over months and months of a meaningless spectacle, when no one pays attention to what they are actually doing, or is being done on their behalf. It's an exercise in well-planned, well-rehearsed stupidity.

Trump's election sure was a rejection of the GOP establishment. A plurality of Democrats voting for the Queen of the Democratic establishment cannot be said to vote with the same impetus. And that's sort of interesting, no? For at the core of what befell Hillary in 2016 is white, working-class voters abandoning her in several crucial swing states, throwing the win to Trump. Arguably, these voters were lost by Obama, deciding that saving the banks was the way to get the country out of Bush's wholesale arson, while workers took a trillion-dollar annual hit to potential productivity (and attendant income). The only one really to understand that, and to warn against it, was Warren, the Senator-professor with her sights firmly on the fate of those hit hardest by the plutocrats' criminality. Mac's solution would be, do not ever listen to the likes of Warren, in order to save the Democratic party. Elect someone who is in the plutocrats' pocket, and does their bidding, also in order to save the Democratic party.

It's almost comical.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac's solution would be, do not ever listen to the likes of Warren, in order to save the Democratic party. Elect someone who is in the plutocrats' pocket, and does their bidding, also in order to save the Democratic party.

Why can't nutters actually quote me, rather than just make stuff up about my positions? Both ends do this constantly. Daily.

Seriously, do you guys have a secret handshake? Do you guys all get trained at the same place? Do you get group discounts at the hotel or sumpin?

This need to lie and/or distort is one of the primary symptoms of the affliction. Bizarre.
.

 

[Olde Europe]

Mac's solution would be, do not ever listen to the likes of Warren, in order to save the Democratic party. Elect someone who is in the plutocrats' pocket, and does their bidding, also in order to save the Democratic party.

Why can't nutters actually quote me, rather than just make stuff up about my positions? Both ends do this constantly. Daily.

Seriously, do you guys have a secret handshake? Do you guys all get trained at the same place? Do you get group discounts at the hotel or sumpin?

This need to lie and/or distort is one of the primary symptoms of the affliction. Bizarre.
.

We've seen you, for years, taking a regular dump on those you decry as the "hardcore Left". Don't you think, one day, folks would catch up to what your advocacy means? But hey, you got another opportunity to do what you do best, whine about your victim status, because you got caught.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac's solution would be, do not ever listen to the likes of Warren, in order to save the Democratic party. Elect someone who is in the plutocrats' pocket, and does their bidding, also in order to save the Democratic party.

Why can't nutters actually quote me, rather than just make stuff up about my positions? Both ends do this constantly. Daily.

Seriously, do you guys have a secret handshake? Do you guys all get trained at the same place? Do you get group discounts at the hotel or sumpin?

This need to lie and/or distort is one of the primary symptoms of the affliction. Bizarre.
.

We've seen you, for years, taking a regular dump on those you decry as the "hardcore Left". Don't you think, one day, folks would catch up to what your advocacy means? But hey, you got another opportunity to do what you do best, whine about your victim status, because you got caught.

Mac's solution would be, do not ever listen to the likes of Warren, in order to save the Democratic party. Elect someone who is in the plutocrats' pocket, and does their bidding, also in order to save the Democratic party.

Why can't nutters actually quote me, rather than just make stuff up about my positions? Both ends do this constantly. Daily.

Seriously, do you guys have a secret handshake? Do you guys all get trained at the same place? Do you get group discounts at the hotel or sumpin?

This need to lie and/or distort is one of the primary symptoms of the affliction. Bizarre.
.

We've seen you, for years, taking a regular dump on those you decry as the "hardcore Left". Don't you think, one day, folks would catch up to what your advocacy means? But hey, you got another opportunity to do what you do best, whine about your victim status, because you got caught.

I agree with Obama. I don't care if you don't.

Maybe just stop lying about the positions of others. Just that.

Or don't. Up to you, of course.
.

 

[Olde Europe]

I agree with Obama.

No, you don't. You just misinterpreted his remarks to further your vendetta against a "hardcore Left" that is a figment of your imagination anyway.

Where you see a backlash by the "hardcore Left", by "the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left", President Obama sees a debate between the progressive and the moderate wings that is well worth having. All he does is to remind them that they better take care they don't lose the average voters while proposing bold change.

However, change, toward progressive ends, is anathema to you, and that's why you don't even understand, much less agree with, President Obama, and that's why you have not a thought, just denigrating verbiage for progressives - whom, by the way, you also don't understand.

 

[Rustic]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

 

[Coyote]

How can he "save the party" when it was under his watch that the party's fortunes fell to generational lows? The Republicans took control of the majority of state and federal government during his leadership of the party and one could make the case the he shares some of the responsibility for Trump getting elected in the first place.

IMHO the Democrats probably need a Bill Clinton v2.0 to lead the party back towards the center not a encore of ex-President "It's all about Me and Nobody Else" Nimrod at the party helm.

In any case, personally I hope the Democrats destroy themselves with this nonsense and take the Republicans down to hell with 'em.

I'd say they need an Andrew Jackson, someone to purge the party of globalist billionaire banking collectivists, racist agitators and freaks of nature.


.

I don't know if this madness is temporary or permanent, and I don't know for sure how representative it really is of the party.

Maybe the primaries will tell us.
.

I am increasingly finding both parties are leaving no space for moderates.

 

[eagle1462010]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

The GOP can come along for the ride......but they get to sit in the back of the bus.

Obama...........LOL

 

[Rustic]

How can he "save the party" when it was under his watch that the party's fortunes fell to generational lows? The Republicans took control of the majority of state and federal government during his leadership of the party and one could make the case the he shares some of the responsibility for Trump getting elected in the first place.

IMHO the Democrats probably need a Bill Clinton v2.0 to lead the party back towards the center not a encore of ex-President "It's all about Me and Nobody Else" Nimrod at the party helm.

In any case, personally I hope the Democrats destroy themselves with this nonsense and take the Republicans down to hell with 'em.

I'd say they need an Andrew Jackson, someone to purge the party of globalist billionaire banking collectivists, racist agitators and freaks of nature.


.

I don't know if this madness is temporary or permanent, and I don't know for sure how representative it really is of the party.

Maybe the primaries will tell us.
.

I am increasingly finding both parties are leaving no space for moderates.

Lol
There is no middle ground in life

 

[Mac1958]

I agree with Obama.

No, you don't. You just misinterpreted his remarks to further your vendetta against a "hardcore Left" that is a figment of your imagination anyway.

Where you see a backlash by the "hardcore Left", by "the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left", President Obama sees a debate between the progressive and the moderate wings that is well worth having. All he does is to remind them that they better take care they don't lose the average voters while proposing bold change.

However, change, toward progressive ends, is anathema to you, and that's why you don't even understand, much less agree, with President Obama, and that's why you have not a thought, just denigrating verbiage for progressives - whom, by the way, you also don't understand.

You refuse to see the problem because you're part of it, obviously.

You Regressives are making Obama look like a freakin' conservative.
.

 

[Rustic]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

The GOP can come along for the ride......but they get to sit in the back of the bus.

Obama...........LOL

Yep,
The GOP establishment did whatever obama told them to do... Spineless motherfuckers

 

[Mac1958]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

And Trumpsters don't want to force their views on people who disagree with them?

Is that what you're claiming?
.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Okay, here are a few of the promises being made:

• Universal child care
  
• Debt-free College
• Reparations
• Guaranteed Income
• Single Payer

Okay. But none of those are "far left". And all of those ideas have been on the table since Reagan was nothing more than another idiot governor who hated gays and blacks. But I get the point. We have "special" voters.

 

[Rustic]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

And Trumpsters don't want to force their views on people who disagree with them?

Is that what you're claiming?
.

Conservative/libertarians Don’t care what other people think, unlike progressives that wanna control people they disagree with

 

[eagle1462010]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

And Trumpsters don't want to force their views on people who disagree with them?

Is that what you're claiming?
.

Less Taxation......
Less Gov't Intrusion.......
State's Rights versus the Federal Gov't
Less Regulation

Which of those gets you butt. hurt....saying we try to force it down your throats.

Cali is a joke.......and they Force shit like YOU WILL PUT A SOLAR GRID on your roof if you want to build here after 2020.

Who's trying to force stuff down people's throats........LOL

 

[Rustic]

Obama may be evil but he’s not stupid

Do you really believe he's evil?
.

Lol
Of Course...
He wants to force his views on people that disagree with him that makes him a fucking piece of shit

And Trumpsters don't want to force their views on people who disagree with them?

Is that what you're claiming?
.

Less Taxation......
Less Gov't Intrusion.......
State's Rights versus the Federal Gov't
Less Regulation

Which of those gets you butt. hurt....saying we try to force it down your throats.

Cali is a joke.......and they Force shit like YOU WILL PUT A SOLAR GRID on your roof if you want to build here after 2020.

Who's trying to force stuff down people's throats........LOL

Yep,
Progressives always want to force their fucked up shit on everyone else they disagree with because their lives are a fucking world of piss and shit

 

[Mac1958]

I am increasingly finding both parties are leaving no space for moderates.

Definitely.

Cooperation and communication are now equated with capitulation, so their self esteem is mixed into it.
.

 

[Mac1958]

How can he "save the party" when it was under his watch that the party's fortunes fell to generational lows? The Republicans took control of the majority of state and federal government during his leadership of the party and one could make the case the he shares some of the responsibility for Trump getting elected in the first place.

IMHO the Democrats probably need a Bill Clinton v2.0 to lead the party back towards the center not a encore of ex-President "It's all about Me and Nobody Else" Nimrod at the party helm.

In any case, personally I hope the Democrats destroy themselves with this nonsense and take the Republicans down to hell with 'em.

I'd say they need an Andrew Jackson, someone to purge the party of globalist billionaire banking collectivists, racist agitators and freaks of nature.


.

I don't know if this madness is temporary or permanent, and I don't know for sure how representative it really is of the party.

Maybe the primaries will tell us.
.

I am increasingly finding both parties are leaving no space for moderates.

Lol
There is no middle ground in life

Of course there is. That's just sad that you think that way. Life isn't a big fight.
.

 

[Rustic]

I am increasingly finding both parties are leaving no space for moderates.

Definitely.

Cooperation and communication are now equated with capitulation, so their self esteem is mixed into it.
.

Lol
The country is divided right down the middle, getting along is way overrated. That’s just the way it is live with it

 

[Coyote]

I am increasingly finding both parties are leaving no space for moderates.

Definitely.

Cooperation and communication are now equated with capitulation, so their self esteem is mixed into it.
.

Ironically, Obama was actually more of a centrist in how he governed.