Can't have it both ways; if Bush still to blame then obama is just irrelevant

[Oldstyle]

I'm curious, Nuhuh...did you want to take a crack at explaining what Barack Obama's plan to stimulate the economy and create jobs has been since Larry Summers and Christina Romer jumped ship? Did you even want to pretend he's had one?

Whatever Obama has done concerning the economy he has done it alone without any advice or consent from either house of congress. That should tell you a lot.

Wow, was that ever a non-answer! So you have nothing for me?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I firmly believe you are entitled to your own view of things, it's just unfortunate that historians have already ranked Obama at #18 on presidential rankings and he is presumed to overtake Reagan just as soon as the impacts of gay marriage, immigration, Iranian nuclear deal and climate change are weighed.

You're so impressed by that rating, Nuhuh! What's unfortunate is that the ranking that a group of historians give doesn't change the fact that Obama has still led the worst recovery from a recession since the Great Depression and that his signature accomplishment...the Affordable Care Act...is one of the most badly written pieces of legislation ever passed by Congress and simply won't work as constituted. As for the Iranian nuclear deal being a positive for Barry? You have much more faith in the Iranian mullahs than I do. I think they played Obama and Kerry like a fiddle.

Like I said, I can respect your opinion but I respect the opinion of historians more.

What you're really saying is that you have no way to dispute what I've just pointed out...so you're going to concentrate on a "popularity contest" among academics that are predominantly liberals. Quite frankly...given Obama's record with the economy...if I were one of his supporters, then I would probably do the same thing!

I'm just saying I don't agree with your conclusions and it is just another way to look at the problem. Historians don't take into account the "politics" of the situation and arrive at their conclusions without the weight of partisan politics.

Now that is amusing, Nuhuh! You for some reason think that historians are unbiased...a notion which astounds me. As someone who graduated with a degree in History I can tell you that the first thing I was taught as a student of history is when reading an account on anything, was to pay careful attention to WHO was authoring that account and what their biases were towards the subject being discussed might be.
You can read a historic account of World War II in Soviet textbooks that describe an entirely different conflict than a textbook written by a Western historian. You literally wouldn't know it was the same war.

agree.

one name: Howard Zinn

 

[Oldstyle]

And it isn't my "opinion" that Obama has led the worst recovery...it's simply fact!

I'm happy that it was a RECOVERY.....apparently RWrs are not.

would Oldstyle admit it has been the worst recovery coming out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression?

Or would that entail admitting the President is not to blame for the world and national financial systems?

I would indeed, Dante. But I would also point out that historically...the steeper the economic downturn the quicker the rebound from that downturn. That holds true except for the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

Would you like to outline what Barack Obama's plan has been to grow the economy and create jobs for the past four years? Nuhuh seems to be struggling with that question...

It's all a matter of public record -- and there is the spin

In a fuller context of the world financial system, in recovery America has been doing well. The Great Recession did not happen in a vacuum. The world has changed and while the President's goals were admirable, his plans may not have worked as hoped for or promised, but...

but others saying they had different plans and then insisting their plans would have done much better to achieve the goals is bs ideological and political rhetoric

And another non-answer? What's the problem here?

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm quite confident that I put a gun to either of your heads right now and told you to name Barack Obama's Chief Economic Advisers...that neither of you would have the faintest idea who they were. That's not an indictment of you...it simply points out that on the number one issue that Americans are concerned about...this President has been a no-show for years now! He simply doesn't know what to do to grow an economy or create real jobs.

 

[Oldstyle]

And it isn't my "opinion" that Obama has led the worst recovery...it's simply fact!

I'm happy that it was a RECOVERY.....apparently RWrs are not.

would Oldstyle admit it has been the worst recovery coming out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression?

Or would that entail admitting the President is not to blame for the world and national financial systems?

I would indeed, Dante. But I would also point out that historically...the steeper the economic downturn the quicker the rebound from that downturn. That holds true except for the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

Would you like to outline what Barack Obama's plan has been to grow the economy and create jobs for the past four years? Nuhuh seems to be struggling with that question...

To be fair, Obama does perceive that we have to structurally address the debt, and it will continue to get bigger as the boomers retire. And he did agree to at least 3 spending dollars for one tax dollar, and he could have gotten Pelosi to go along. The House Gop walked away. We could debate whether Obama would be open to long term spending curbs .... say a law holding spending increases to less than GNP growth ... but we never even got to that discussion.

Not for nothing, Bendog...but if Barry really does understand that we need to address the debt...nothing he's done during his two terms in office would make you believe that! Unless you're naive enough to buy into the narrative that the ACA is actually going to reduce the debt...

 

[Claudette]

Of course to hear the left tell it Bush was responsible for everything. In fact he's still responsible though he hasn't been POTUS for seven years

care to offer a few examples?

Look it up yourself. Just go back over the many threads about just that on this board.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Just to refresh...memory, Barack Obama came into office saying that he had a plan to fix the economy and would hit the ground running.

Then he proceeded to put the economy and jobs on a back burner while he pursued ObamaCare.

As a result...he's led the worst recovery from a recession since FDR and the Great Depression.

So the blame for the slow recovery has to do with Obamacare? If the recovery was tackled first things would have gone much better? Hmm...events all over the world would appear to call this logic into question

But WHAT exactly was the first thing Obama did when entering office, even before entering office?

Hmm...

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.​

The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion.[1] This is significantly less than the government's cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s but does not include the cost of other "bailout" programs (such as the Federal Reserve's Maiden Lane Transactions and the Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). The cost of the former crisis amounted to 3.2 percent of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the latter crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1 percent.[2] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, it was reported in April 2010 that those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[2] On December 19, 2014 the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. TARP revenue has totaled $441.7 billion on $426.4 billion invested.[3]

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

You appear to have fallen into the Rush-Alternative-World-View meme, where on Feb/Mar 2009, Rush gave a speech declaring 'we need to take our country back' -- all before President Obama changed a single thing

It's okay, recent brain studies can account for how you came to your faulty conclusions and stick with them

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

And it isn't my "opinion" that Obama has led the worst recovery...it's simply fact!

I'm happy that it was a RECOVERY.....apparently RWrs are not.

would Oldstyle admit it has been the worst recovery coming out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression?

Or would that entail admitting the President is not to blame for the world and national financial systems?

I would indeed, Dante. But I would also point out that historically...the steeper the economic downturn the quicker the rebound from that downturn. That holds true except for the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

Would you like to outline what Barack Obama's plan has been to grow the economy and create jobs for the past four years? Nuhuh seems to be struggling with that question...

It's all a matter of public record -- and there is the spin

In a fuller context of the world financial system, in recovery America has been doing well. The Great Recession did not happen in a vacuum. The world has changed and while the President's goals were admirable, his plans may not have worked as hoped for or promised, but...

but others saying they had different plans and then insisting their plans would have done much better to achieve the goals is bs ideological and political rhetoric

And another non-answer? What's the problem here?

Non-answer?

It's all a matter of public record -- and then there is the spin

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I'm quite confident that I put a gun to either of your heads right now and told you to name Barack Obama's Chief Economic Advisers...that neither of you would have the faintest idea who they were. That's not an indictment of you...it simply points out that on the number one issue that Americans are concerned about...this President has been a no-show for years now! He simply doesn't know what to do to grow an economy or create real jobs.

I actually had a client .. a guy named Gene Sperling ... during the mid 1980s in NYC. He worked on Wall Street. I've followed his career.

take a hike with your pseudo-superior knowledge

 

[nuhuh]

I'm curious, Nuhuh...did you want to take a crack at explaining what Barack Obama's plan to stimulate the economy and create jobs has been since Larry Summers and Christina Romer jumped ship? Did you even want to pretend he's had one?

Whatever Obama has done concerning the economy he has done it alone without any advice or consent from either house of congress. That should tell you a lot.

So YOU accept the fault for the rise in food stamp numbers as his fault? And you accept the 18 trillion dollar debt as his fault? Oh AND the last government shut down as his fault?

Good to hear. You may not be as stupid as your posting suggests.

$18 Trillion dollar debt is Obama's fault? Perhaps you're short of memory these days because $10.6 Trillion of that debt belongs to George Bush.

 

[Oldstyle]

Just to refresh...memory, Barack Obama came into office saying that he had a plan to fix the economy and would hit the ground running.

Then he proceeded to put the economy and jobs on a back burner while he pursued ObamaCare.

As a result...he's led the worst recovery from a recession since FDR and the Great Depression.

So the blame for the slow recovery has to do with Obamacare? If the recovery was tackled first things would have gone much better? Hmm...events all over the world would appear to call this logic into question

But WHAT exactly was the first thing Obama did when entering office, even before entering office?

Hmm...

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.​

The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion.[1] This is significantly less than the government's cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s but does not include the cost of other "bailout" programs (such as the Federal Reserve's Maiden Lane Transactions and the Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). The cost of the former crisis amounted to 3.2 percent of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the latter crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1 percent.[2] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, it was reported in April 2010 that those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[2] On December 19, 2014 the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. TARP revenue has totaled $441.7 billion on $426.4 billion invested.[3]

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

You appear to have fallen into the Rush-Alternative-World-View meme, where on Feb/Mar 2009, Rush gave a speech declaring 'we need to take our country back' -- all before President Obama changed a single thing

It's okay, recent brain studies can account for how you came to your faulty conclusions and stick with them

With all due respect, Dante...Barry continued W's TARP program because that was working! If your biggest success story of the Obama Administration on the economy is that they kept doing what Bush started...that's not much of an endorsement...know what I'm saying?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I'm quite confident that I put a gun to either of your heads right now and told you to name Barack Obama's Chief Economic Advisers...that neither of you would have the faintest idea who they were. That's not an indictment of you...it simply points out that on the number one issue that Americans are concerned about...this President has been a no-show for years now! He simply doesn't know what to do to grow an economy or create real jobs.

So a President 'grows' an economy AND creates jobs?

Are you advocating socialism and dictatorship?

 

[bodecea]

I would agree that Obama has not been very good at cleaning up the steaming piles of shite W left in the world. Even the Iran deal is probably more about Europe than us.

I SEE; you're excuse-making idiot Lite???

No, not at all. But Obama's agenda simply did not address W's clusterfks, and one result is now the humanitarian crises in Europe.

Obama did achieve universal care, or Obamacare will eventually morph into that. He's elevated our use of the prison system to further institutionalize racism to be maybe the most discussed issue in criminal law, and he's begun the dismantling of the failed war on drugs. He's caused John Roberts to return to being the minimalist judge he promised to be at his confirmation hearings. We have gay marriage, and he's played a role in that. And, while the gop has forestalled real immigration reform, they are incapable of actually sitting at the table because they espouse ideas that are not viable: ending birthright citizenship and building some magic impenetrable wall.

I know you don't like any of that. I have to say that gay marriage and even the misuse of the prison system weren't high on my personal agenda, but hey .... I didn't vote for the guy.

But you look at the ME and Europe and even eastern Europe and .... there's simply no other conclusion that at best he was naïve and incompetent. It's very possible that his view is that he US shouldn't even be involved, but god knows where he's intervened its come up balls side up.

yes i see you ARE idiot-Lite. actually maybe not so light after all.
obama owns the european refugee crisis and does so on any number of levels

post some more long-winded stupidity; that is another sign you're on the dummy side; the boring self-impressed ignorance

How does President Obama "own" the European refugee crisis?

 

[bedowin62]

Just to refresh...memory, Barack Obama came into office saying that he had a plan to fix the economy and would hit the ground running.

Then he proceeded to put the economy and jobs on a back burner while he pursued ObamaCare.

As a result...he's led the worst recovery from a recession since FDR and the Great Depression.

So the blame for the slow recovery has to do with Obamacare? If the recovery was tackled first things would have gone much better? Hmm...events all over the world would appear to call this logic into question

But WHAT exactly was the first thing Obama did when entering office, even before entering office?

Hmm...

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.​

The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion.[1] This is significantly less than the government's cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s but does not include the cost of other "bailout" programs (such as the Federal Reserve's Maiden Lane Transactions and the Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). The cost of the former crisis amounted to 3.2 percent of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the latter crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1 percent.[2] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, it was reported in April 2010 that those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[2] On December 19, 2014 the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. TARP revenue has totaled $441.7 billion on $426.4 billion invested.[3]

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

You appear to have fallen into the Rush-Alternative-World-View meme, where on Feb/Mar 2009, Rush gave a speech declaring 'we need to take our country back' -- all before President Obama changed a single thing

It's okay, recent brain studies can account for how you came to your faulty conclusions and stick with them

what a pathetic left-wing nutjob

when obama started talking about what he planned to do the stock market dropped a thousand points. it was then many on the Righ understood obama was a Manchurian candidate

dont believe me leftard?
what were obama's stances on things like raising the National Debt as a candidate and US Senator?

what were his stances on THE SAME ISSUES AS PRESIDENT???

 

[bendog]

And it isn't my "opinion" that Obama has led the worst recovery...it's simply fact!

I'm happy that it was a RECOVERY.....apparently RWrs are not.

would Oldstyle admit it has been the worst recovery coming out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression?

Or would that entail admitting the President is not to blame for the world and national financial systems?

I would indeed, Dante. But I would also point out that historically...the steeper the economic downturn the quicker the rebound from that downturn. That holds true except for the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

Would you like to outline what Barack Obama's plan has been to grow the economy and create jobs for the past four years? Nuhuh seems to be struggling with that question...

To be fair, Obama does perceive that we have to structurally address the debt, and it will continue to get bigger as the boomers retire. And he did agree to at least 3 spending dollars for one tax dollar, and he could have gotten Pelosi to go along. The House Gop walked away. We could debate whether Obama would be open to long term spending curbs .... say a law holding spending increases to less than GNP growth ... but we never even got to that discussion.

Not for nothing, Bendog...but if Barry really does understand that we need to address the debt...nothing he's done during his two terms in office would make you believe that! Unless you're naive enough to buy into the narrative that the ACA is actually going to reduce the debt...

Well whether the ACA actually reduces the debt or not isn't really the question. It's democratic dogma that federally managed HC is more efficient that privately managed. Obama may be wrong, but simply because he's wrong doesn't mean he didn't TRY to address something.

I'm not really a fan of the ACA, though it's not proving to be as bad as its opponents prophesied. (-: But, since I brought up the Gop's inability to compromise, I think I should fairly note that early on his admin, and in the ACA legislative process, Obama refused to accept any compromise that didn't envision universal care. Even those in the senate who thought they had a duty to compromise with a new president who had won an election partially on the HC issue couldn't politically go that far. But, first he tried to shove it down their throats with a 60 majority filibuster proof, but then after the dems lost that, they used reconciliation to avoid having to go back again. After that, the gop senate said 'no more compromise.'

After the 2010 elections, they were open to compromise on the budget, but the Tea Party stopped anything in the House.

 

[bedowin62]

Articles: Why Blame Obama? - American Thinker
www.americanthinker.com/.../why_blame_obama.htm...

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American Thinker
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Sep 4, 2012 - Senator Obama voted for the budgets he would later blame on Bush, and for the TARP bailout. After just two months of TARP, the Bush ...

 

[bedowin62]

Obama regrets 2006 vote against raising the debt limit ...
www.politifact.com/...obama/obama-regrets-2006-vote-ag...

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PolitiFact.com
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Apr 29, 2011 - I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit." -- Sen. Barack Obama, March 16, 2006 "Nobody likes to be tagged as ...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Just to refresh...memory, Barack Obama came into office saying that he had a plan to fix the economy and would hit the ground running.

Then he proceeded to put the economy and jobs on a back burner while he pursued ObamaCare.

As a result...he's led the worst recovery from a recession since FDR and the Great Depression.

So the blame for the slow recovery has to do with Obamacare? If the recovery was tackled first things would have gone much better? Hmm...events all over the world would appear to call this logic into question

But WHAT exactly was the first thing Obama did when entering office, even before entering office?

Hmm...

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.​

The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion.[1] This is significantly less than the government's cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s but does not include the cost of other "bailout" programs (such as the Federal Reserve's Maiden Lane Transactions and the Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). The cost of the former crisis amounted to 3.2 percent of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the latter crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1 percent.[2] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, it was reported in April 2010 that those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[2] On December 19, 2014 the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. TARP revenue has totaled $441.7 billion on $426.4 billion invested.[3]

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

You appear to have fallen into the Rush-Alternative-World-View meme, where on Feb/Mar 2009, Rush gave a speech declaring 'we need to take our country back' -- all before President Obama changed a single thing

It's okay, recent brain studies can account for how you came to your faulty conclusions and stick with them

With all due respect, Dante...Barry continued W's TARP program because that was working! If your biggest success story of the Obama Administration on the economy is that they kept doing what Bush started...that's not much of an endorsement...know what I'm saying?

Who were President Obama's economic advisers when he entered office and what did they suggest and why? I bet they were not all that different in thinking and actions then Bush's were at that time. They were all Wall Street people.

trying to split Bush and Obama apart on the early interventions on the economic recovery is an ideological masturbation game

 

[bodecea]

Just to refresh...memory, Barack Obama came into office saying that he had a plan to fix the economy and would hit the ground running.

Then he proceeded to put the economy and jobs on a back burner while he pursued ObamaCare.

As a result...he's led the worst recovery from a recession since FDR and the Great Depression.

So the blame for the slow recovery has to do with Obamacare? If the recovery was tackled first things would have gone much better? Hmm...events all over the world would appear to call this logic into question

But WHAT exactly was the first thing Obama did when entering office, even before entering office?

Hmm...

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.​

The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion.[1] This is significantly less than the government's cost of the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s but does not include the cost of other "bailout" programs (such as the Federal Reserve's Maiden Lane Transactions and the Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). The cost of the former crisis amounted to 3.2 percent of GDP during the Reagan/Bush era, while the GDP percentage of the latter crisis' cost is estimated at less than 1 percent.[2] While it was once feared the government would be holding companies like GM, AIG and Citigroup for several years, it was reported in April 2010 that those companies are preparing to buy back the Treasury's stake and emerge from TARP within a year.[2] On December 19, 2014 the U.S. Treasury sold its remaining holdings of Ally Financial, essentially ending the program. TARP revenue has totaled $441.7 billion on $426.4 billion invested.[3]

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

You appear to have fallen into the Rush-Alternative-World-View meme, where on Feb/Mar 2009, Rush gave a speech declaring 'we need to take our country back' -- all before President Obama changed a single thing

It's okay, recent brain studies can account for how you came to your faulty conclusions and stick with them

what a pathetic left-wing nutjob

when obama started talking about what he planned to do the stock market dropped a thousand points. it was then many on the Righ understood obama was a Manchurian candidate

dont believe me leftard?
what were obama's stances on things like raising the National Debt as a candidate and US Senator?

what were his stances on THE SAME ISSUES AS PRESIDENT???

How's the Stock Market now?

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm quite confident that I put a gun to either of your heads right now and told you to name Barack Obama's Chief Economic Advisers...that neither of you would have the faintest idea who they were. That's not an indictment of you...it simply points out that on the number one issue that Americans are concerned about...this President has been a no-show for years now! He simply doesn't know what to do to grow an economy or create real jobs.

I actually had a client .. a guy named Gene Sperling ... during the mid 1980s in NYC. He worked on Wall Street. I've followed his career.

take a hike with your pseudo-superior knowledge

I know enough about Gene Sperling to know that he's no longer one of the President's Chief Economic Advisers and hasn't been for about a year now...a fact that you seem unaware of. Oh, I'm sorry...was that me showing off my "pseudo-superior knowledge"?