CBO: Biden $15 An Hour Minimum Wage Will Cost 1.4 Million American Jobs

[Lesh]

In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Say what? Please explain how higher paid labor creates more demand.

Are you on the right wing? If the minimum wage doubles (in this case), those persons will be able to afford to eat at that establishment twice a week not just once a week.

Except that if wages are doubled, the price of the food will rise accordingly so they will still only be able to afford one meal. This isn’t complicated.

MW has been raised in the past and that did NOT occur

 

[Lesh]

Why do you think using the word "effective" when discussing a corporate tax rate of 95%
changes anything when discussing the incentive to open a new business?

If you don't understand what "effective tax rates" are...you need to exit the discussion.

 

[DBA]

In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Say what? Please explain how higher paid labor creates more demand.

Are you on the right wing? If the minimum wage doubles (in this case), those persons will be able to afford to eat at that establishment twice a week not just once a week.

Except that if wages are doubled, the price of the food will rise accordingly so they will still only be able to afford one meal. This isn’t complicated.

MW has been raised in the past and that did NOT occur

So who will be paying for the significant cost increase for many businesses? Will business owners just absorb the losses?

I can answer that for you. Either the price of the product goes up or people get laid off. Simple really.

 

[hadit]

In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Say what? Please explain how higher paid labor creates more demand.

Are you on the right wing? If the minimum wage doubles (in this case), those persons will be able to afford to eat at that establishment twice a week not just once a week.

So, Daniel, once and for all, do you advocate doubling the MW quickly or incrementally over a period of years? Please answer straight up yes or no.

 

[hadit]

Yes we know you don't buy American. That's on you.

Of course Ray they conned a conservative like you to buy japanese cars. Duh.

Just another way you attacked unions. You brought in foreign car makers and it didn't lower prices hardly at all.

As a truck driver, if I went to a new company I've never been to before, or knew nothing about, I could tell you within five minutes if they were union or not.

When I made the switch, our company was delivering to the car plants in the state. These workers Fd off so much, my employer finally had a new policy of refusing deliveries to any UAW plant. Unloading a truck takes anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes depending on how far away from the dock they have to go to drop the freight. Many times with the car plants, I was there four hours. He just couldn't afford to tie us up that long. We had other customers to service. I had to ask myself: Do I want these lazy MF's building my car?

So my last American made car was my last American made car. After 30,000 miles, my mechanic drove it more than I did. He was in my driveway fixing it yet again one day, and he was telling me how much better Japanese cars were. He said he seldom got calls from owners of those vehicles unless they were old or had a lot of miles on them. He told me since I drive all day, take note of the cars that are stranded on the side of the road and what brands they were. He told me Japanese put money into quality parts and engineering. US companies put their money in the UAW and workers, so they opt for cheaper, crappier parts.

My mechanic didn't realize he talked himself out of a customer, because the next car I bought was a Toyota Camry. It came with a 100,000 mile 7 year warranty, and I never used it once. Not once did it strand me anywhere like my Malibu frequently did. Not once did I have to take a day off of work because I couldn't get it started. I've owned two more Camry's since, and none of those three ever seen a tow truck.

That's what made me switch.

And, as has been noted before, it's a safe bet that our intrepid union advocate has made purchasing decisions based on perceived quality/price points that did not include union membership in the company.

 

[hadit]

If there isn't enough left over after taking into account materials and wages, rent and taxes won't matter

Said no business owner...ever

Go away

Should an employee be paid more or less than the value they add?

Apparently, you're not supposed to worry about the value they add because your business is a bottomless well of money.

 

[hadit]

Politics do often make strange bedfellows. For example, Liberals hate corporations, and often blame them for putting 'mom & pop shops' out of business. On the other hand however, Liberals are in favor of Government stepping in and artificially raising the cost of labor, which ravages the same 'mom & pop shops' who are less capable of absorbing this distortion in the market process.

So in reality, Liberals are in FAVOR of government stepping in to assist corporations in driving small businesses OUT of business.



Not all liberals are idiots, but... wait, yeah they are.

Mom and pop shops are not the entities that benefit from ultra low wages.

That's fast food joints and at packing plants

Funny I just looked up mississippi/mcdonald's on indeed they are starting over minimum wage




Crew
McDonald’s
196,378 reviews
Booneville, MS 38829
Job
Company
Insights
Job details
Salary
$7.50 - $9.00 an hour

Crew - Booneville, MS 38829 - Indeed.com

McDonald’s

www.indeed.com

I believe this is the true driving fear behind the mad leap to double the MW, the proponents realize the federal MW is being revealed as irrelevant because cities and states are already setting their own MW higher. In fact, they should be demonstrating against and petitioning their local governments to raise the local MW, not Washington.

The "mad leap to double the minimum wage" is because it had not been raised for around decade and inflation still happened.

Lesh, Daniel here is advocating doubling the minimum wage quickly.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

Higher paid labor creates more in demand

You keep belching up this nonsense yet you've never once tried to support it...

It is basic economics. The multiplier effect does it.

there is no multiplier effect.

Giving a person a 50% raise does not give him 100% more money to spend it doesn't even give him 50% more money to spend

Only right wingers appeal to ignorance of economics yet want to be taken seriously. Labor making more money means they will be spending more money and paying more taxes.

Geezus... Labor being paid more will result in fewer laborers and LESS money to spend. You're just being willfully ignorant at this point.

 

[hadit]

Politics do often make strange bedfellows. For example, Liberals hate corporations, and often blame them for putting 'mom & pop shops' out of business. On the other hand however, Liberals are in favor of Government stepping in and artificially raising the cost of labor, which ravages the same 'mom & pop shops' who are less capable of absorbing this distortion in the market process.

So in reality, Liberals are in FAVOR of government stepping in to assist corporations in driving small businesses OUT of business.



Not all liberals are idiots, but... wait, yeah they are.

Mom and pop shops are not the entities that benefit from ultra low wages.

That's fast food joints and at packing plants

Funny I just looked up mississippi/mcdonald's on indeed they are starting over minimum wage




Crew
McDonald’s
196,378 reviews
Booneville, MS 38829
Job
Company
Insights
Job details
Salary
$7.50 - $9.00 an hour

Crew - Booneville, MS 38829 - Indeed.com

McDonald’s

www.indeed.com

I believe this is the true driving fear behind the mad leap to double the MW, the proponents realize the federal MW is being revealed as irrelevant because cities and states are already setting their own MW higher. In fact, they should be demonstrating against and petitioning their local governments to raise the local MW, not Washington.

The "mad leap to double the minimum wage" is because it had not been raised for around decade and inflation still happened.

So raise it to $8.85

After a decade of a stagnant wage? Minimum wage labor should not need social services merely to help capitalists with their bottom line.

Why don't cities and states set their own MW to whatever level they think exceeds what someone can get from welfare?

 

[Dirk the Daring]

I feel sorry for poor people. I save 20% of my paychecks. They give 20% of their paycheck to one of those advance payday loan Companies. Even if it’s just $5 to the party store guy to cash their checks. They ain’t saving.

So you have no skills, you smoke dope and won't try to get a good job, you won't go to trade school so you can make enough to have a 401K. That should be our problem?

Yes, especially when corporate welfare is alive and well and has even paid multimillion dollar bonuses to persons who could afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory.

Corporate welfare is ALSO bad, it's not a REASON to do OTHER bad things...

 

[hadit]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

So what? Biden is planning to create a bunch of new jobs in green energy, education, infrastructure and health care.

Putting money in people's pockets increases the demand for restaurants, home improvement, vacations, entertainment, new clothes, etc. and all those industries will have to go on a hiring spree to meet the demand.

and 900,000 lifted out of poverty.

I have looked over the last 20 years and I haven't found one President that has created one job other than a new position on his staff or cabinet. Over the same time span I have seen American entrepreneurs create thousands and thousands of new jobs.

The other thing you said is that it is going to bring 900,000 out of poverty which is great, however the CBO says that 1,400,000 will lose jobs, so our net will be a negative 500,000. So I'm not seeing that as a positive.

After the Republican Great Depression, FDR put this nation back to work, in part by raising taxes on income above $3 to $4 million a year (in today's dollars) to 91 percent, and corporate taxes to over 50% of profits. The revenue from those income taxes built dams, roads, bridges, sewers, water systems, schools, hospitals, train stations, railways, an interstate highway system, and airports. It educated a generation returning from World War II. It acted as a cap on the rare but occasional obsessively greedy person taking so much out of the economy that it impoverished the rest of us.

But the rich fought back, and won big-time in 1980 when Reagan promptly cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983 (they're still in that neighborhood, the lowest in the industrialized world).

The result was devastating. Our government was suddenly so badly awash in red ink that Reagan doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year (FICA), and then began borrowing from the huge surplus this new tax was accumulating in the Social Security Trust Fund. Even with that, Reagan had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined.

In addition to badly throwing the nation into debt, Reagan's tax cut blew out the ceiling on the accumulation of wealth, leading to a new Gilded Age and the rise of a generation of super-wealthy that hadn't been seen since the Robber Baron era of the 1890s or the Roaring 20s.

And, most tragically, Reagan's tax cuts caused America to stop investing in infrastructure. As a nation, we've been coasting since the early 1980s, living on borrowed money while we burn through (in some cases literally) the hospitals, roads, bridges, steam tunnels, and other infrastructure we built in the Golden Age of the Middle Class between the 1940s and the 1980s.

We even stopped investing in the intellectual infrastructure of this nation: college education. A degree that a student in the 1970s could have paid for by working as a waitress now means incurring massive and life-altering debt for all but the very wealthy. Reagan, who as governor ended free tuition at the University of California, put into place the foundations for the explosion in college tuition we see today.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

Our bridges are falling apart (among other things), and its Ronald Reagan's fault. A few hours before the bridge collapsed in Minnesota, a news release landed (among hundreds) in my email inbox. It was from the right-wing "Heartland Institute" and a Minnesota conservative group calling itself...

www.commondreams.org

Sure he did. All those jobs were paid for with tax dollars. He had companies paying as high as 95% so they couldn't hire. Everything he did extended the GP.

WWII saved the day. Not FDR.

Why didn’t Afghanistan and Iraq save the day?

It was WWII dummy. 1940-1945.

How did the war save the day then but wars in 2000s didn’t save the day?

Fdr saved the day after the war by raising taxes on the rich and using the money to build infrastructure

The war saved the day by destroying the competition. We were the only major manufacturer on the planet left virtually unscathed after the war. We could (and did) write our own ticket.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Only in the short term. Unemployment compensation could be improved to better pick up the slack and automatically stabilize our economy. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Only if you raise it gradually enough that the market can adjust. Double it overnight and impact 60% of the work force and things can get ugly.

"adjust" = raise prices slowly enough that customers don't riot...

And that adjustment still results in the loss of jobs, just less noticeably. My Dad would tell us that in the 1950's they marveled at the Soviet Union where you had to pump your own gas while here in the States we had a teenager come out and not only pump your gas but check your tires, oil and water. Get that kind of service lately? Now, when you get fast food, more likely than not you'll place your order and pay for it on a touch screen. The only time you interact with a person is when somebody hands you a bag and a cup to go pour your own drink. Go grocery shopping and you can scan and bag everything on your own. Low end jobs do disappear as they become more expensive. Even higher paying jobs are disappearing. Once upon a time, auto manufacturing assembly lines employed hundreds of thousands of highly paid workers. Now a relative handful monitor and fix the machines that put the cars together. The only question is, what will replace the lost jobs? The trend is jobs that require more training and more education before you can even start. And prices continue to rise.

And if you lowered the minimum wage to zero, where it belongs, you could very well have those same types of jobs back.

 

[hadit]

Who's going to do the work of the 1.4 million?

It's not as if employers keep surplus workers around the shop just in case.

They'll just get by with one or 2 less employees.

Or maybe the business won't hire a cleaning company and have their workers sweep up

Maybe the owner will plow his own parking lot instead of paying someone else to do it?

There are millions of ways to save a little money here and there

That depends on the cost differential. If you have to pay an employee more per hour than you would a cleaning company, you'd be foolish to cut the cleaning company. Same with plowing the parking lot. The owner would have to have his own equipment, transport it to the parking lot, carry insurance to protect him if he damages a car or city property and take the time out of his day to do the plowing. He would be stupid to do that if he was getting the equivalent of $100/hr from the company and would pay a service $50/hr.

 

[hadit]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Only in the short term. Unemployment compensation could be improved to better pick up the slack and automatically stabilize our economy. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Only if you raise it gradually enough that the market can adjust. Double it overnight and impact 60% of the work force and things can get ugly.

"adjust" = raise prices slowly enough that customers don't riot...

And that adjustment still results in the loss of jobs, just less noticeably. My Dad would tell us that in the 1950's they marveled at the Soviet Union where you had to pump your own gas while here in the States we had a teenager come out and not only pump your gas but check your tires, oil and water. Get that kind of service lately? Now, when you get fast food, more likely than not you'll place your order and pay for it on a touch screen. The only time you interact with a person is when somebody hands you a bag and a cup to go pour your own drink. Go grocery shopping and you can scan and bag everything on your own. Low end jobs do disappear as they become more expensive. Even higher paying jobs are disappearing. Once upon a time, auto manufacturing assembly lines employed hundreds of thousands of highly paid workers. Now a relative handful monitor and fix the machines that put the cars together. The only question is, what will replace the lost jobs? The trend is jobs that require more training and more education before you can even start. And prices continue to rise.

And if you lowered the minimum wage to zero, where it belongs, you could very well have those same types of jobs back.

I don't argue that we should shun automation to save manual labor jobs, but we do need to acknowledge the very real costs imposed by life and not pretend we can just arbitrarily jack the MW with no ill effects at all.

 

[hadit]

Higher paid labor creates more in demand

You keep belching up this nonsense yet you've never once tried to support it...

Every single time the minimum wage has gone up, unemployment has gone down. There is an ENORMOUS amount of pent up demand for goods and services for working Americans, but they lack the income to properly provide for their families, much less plan major purchases or savings.

The USA is the ONLY country in the first world where the numbers of people in the middle class is declining, and more people are falling back into poverty than are rising out of the middle class into wealth. A thriving middle class is a necessity for a healthly thriving first world economy.

Republican policies are killing the American middle class, as surely as the farmer killed the goose that laid the golden eggs, and to the same effect.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/san2017-26.pdf

Dems should follow Bill Clinton’s lead on minimum wage hike

One of the Democrats’ top priorities in the new Congress is a $15 minimum wage — a 107-percent increase over the current standard. Before embracing a federal wage mandate for which there&#821…

thehill.com

Yes, Dems held majority for almost every minimum wage raise

Eighty-one years ago, the American workforce was introduced to its first ever federal minimum wage. President Franklin D

www.politifact.com

Why the middle class is shrinking

Fewer millennials in 2019 are middle class compared to baby boomers when they were in their 20s.

www.marketwatch.com

Seven reasons to worry about the American middle class | Brookings

Eleanor Krause and Isabel Sawhill list seven reasons why the American middle class is in trouble.

www.brookings.edu

when was the last MW increase more than 100%?

It should have been keeping up with inflation for the last decade. It is a simple cost of living adjustment. Right wingers are nothing but drama queens by not asking for a tax break to help out with raise in the minimum wage.

No people like you should have been trying to get higher paying jobs instead of aspiring to never make more than minimum wage.

If you're 21 and only making minimum wage it's your own damn fault

The minimum wage is still the minimum wage. Stop whining about taxes for social services since passing on the cost of low wage labor helps Capitalists' bottom line.

Here's a shocker. Businesses are not responsible to help anyone maintain a lifestyle. And answer me this. Cities and states seem to have figured out that they can set their MW as high as they want to. Why are you not complaining to your local governments that your MW is too low?

 

[Cellblock2429]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

/——/ Dementia Joe is hard at work putting folks on the unemployment line. Thanks democRATs.
U.S. jobless claims total 793,000 vs. 760,000 estimate

Abolish your worthless and alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror since you are brave enough to go maskless during a pandemic. Use those funds saved for shovel ready infrastructure jobs that can improve the efficiency of our economy.

/——/ I can’t abolish anything. Go whine to the democRATs. They are fully in charge.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

I think a child can understand it’s bad policy. The people advocating for it know it’s bad policy. They just want to pretend they’re standing up for the poor.

Republicans argue 4 $5 hr jobs are better than one $20 hr job.

I'm not a Republican, but consider this:

Say you own a business where all you do is mow lawns. Nothing technical, no real intellect required. Drive/push the mower, mow the lawn, then move on to the next one.

Will productivity be higher if you have four guys doing that at $5 an hour or one guy doing it at $20 an hour?

All I know is what made America great. Ford, GM, Chrysler all overpaying their low skill blue collar workers. Don’t know why they did it. Instead of $35 hr they should have paid them $15 hr and doubled productivity right? But that’s not what made America great. What made us great, at least here in Michigan, was that every third house was a big three family. And everyone else fed off those highly paid low skill workers. They were the heads of their households. Women wanted them men wanted to be them. Lol.

I don’t know why they paid so well oh yea I forgot, unions! The very thing republicans destroyed starting with reagan.

Henry Ford started paying his workers $5 a day in 1914, the highest wages in the world at the time. The UAW was started in 1935, meaning they were paid well BEFORE the unions existed. Please try again.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I can answer that for you. Either the price of the product goes up or people get laid off. Simple really.

They have other options too like hiring illegals since Dementia won't do much about it. There is automation investments. There is more outsourcing. Just a number of things they could consider, if not a combo of them.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

I don't care how high you set corporate taxes, they're not going to pay high wages if they can't sell their goods.

Unless they are FORCED to by Socialist Democrats setting a mandated high wage even for unskilled laborers.

And ultimately they go out of business. The usual suspects like to pretend that businesses are bottomless pits of money. They're not.

Agreed, in fact, a large portion of business have razor thin profit margins.

 

[danielpalos]

Except that if wages are doubled, the price of the food will rise accordingly so they will still only be able to afford one meal. This isn’t complicated.

Not even close. Even the dollar menu won't double even if the minimum wage does. Price inflation would be less than five percent.