Come on progressives - tell us again how it is so “great”

[P@triot]

Reading it and understanding it are two different things.

Well you can’t “understand” something you have never read.

 

[P@triot]

You don't even understand that the Constitution is a social contract.

Well that’s because it is not.

 

[Trump The Mad King]

Nope, you said they didn't. Period. Like I said, you're full of shit.

Snowflake...post #69 is still out there for everyone to see. In fact, here it is:

If ObamaCare is socialism, then why does the entire PRIVATE health care industry support it?

They didn’t. Literally the “entire” private healthcare industry did not support it. Lie #1 by you.

I called you out on your idiotic claim that the “entire” healthcare industry supported it.

So if ObamaCare is socialism then why did MOST of the health care industry support it? Why did MOST of it support the individual mandate? By your vague non-answers, you're acknowledging that the private health care industry supports socialism.

Again, you're full of shit.

 

[Trump The Mad King]

You don't even understand that the Constitution is a social contract.

Well that’s because it is not.

By your logic, there is no need for a government then. Everyone should just look out for themselves.

What's the Social Contract Mean for the Political System?

The idea of the social contract had a huge impact on the Founding Fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. The U.S. Constitution itself starts with the three words, "We the people..." embodying this idea of popular sovereignty in the very beginning of this key document. Thus, government that is established by the free choice of its people is required to serve the people, who in the end have sovereignty, or supreme power to keep or get rid of that government.

 

[P@triot]

So if ObamaCare is socialism then why did MOST of the health care industry support it?

I already answered that. For the same reason all progressives support socialism: greed and ignorance.

If you’re an insurance company that provides health insurance and you hear that the government is going to mandate that an additional 30 million people must purchase health insurance, you’re greed will drive you to support that if you are ignorant.

 

[Trump The Mad King]

So if ObamaCare is socialism then why did MOST of the health care industry support it?

I already answered that. For the same reason all progressives support socialism: greed and ignorance.

If you’re an insurance company that provides health insurance and you hear that the government is going to mandate that an additional 30 million people must purchase health insurance, you’re greed will drive you to support that if you are ignorant.

Then how is it socialism if private industry is the main driver of ObamaCare?

 

[P@triot]

By your logic, there is no need for a government then.

Nothing could be further from the truth. As I already stated in post #122, constitutional government is more critical than anything else.

The key is, keeping them in their lane. Limiting them to their constitutional responsibilities. The problem is, ignorant parasites such as yourself want to advance this false narrative that government is just mommy and daddy for “big people” - there to provide for you.

 

[P@triot]

Then how is it socialism if private industry is the main driver of ObamaCare?

A. Socialism isn’t defined by who drove it

B. Private industry wasn’t the main driver of Obamacare. Hell, they weren’t even a tertiary driver. Obama and the Dumbocrats drove it. Those in the private industry with a vested interest just sat back and didn’t attempt to protest it.

 

[Trump The Mad King]

By your logic, there is no need for a government then.

Nothing could be further from the truth. As I already stated in post #122, constitutional government is more critical than anything else.

The key is, keeping them in their lane. Limiting them to their constitutional responsibilities. The problem is, ignorant parasites such as yourself want to advance this false narrative that government is just mommy and daddy for “big people” - there to provide for you.

That's you being a juvenile and putting words in our mouths. One function of government is to provide a social safety net. We help fellow citizens when they hit hard times. It's just the decent thing to do, all politics aside. That is part of the social contract that the Constitution outlines ("promote the general welfare") and part of the "securing our rights" that you talked about. Your interpretation of government and the Constitution is callous, extreme, and ignorant. If you were correct, then ObamaCare would have been ruled unconstitutional a few years ago by the Supreme Court. That did not happen.

Do people abuse the system? Of course. You don't want to hear this, but the biggest abusers of the system are the RICH, not the poor. That's just a fact.

And like you've just acknowledged, you supported someone for president who is more of a parasite than just about anyone on planet Earth. I don't know how you reconcile that conundrum with your political beliefs. I guess you avoid asking yourself that tough question with all the moronic mental gymnastics that you perform each day.

 

[Trump The Mad King]

Then how is it socialism if private industry is the main driver of ObamaCare?

A. Socialism isn’t defined by who drove it

B. Private industry wasn’t the main driver of Obamacare. Hell, they weren’t even a tertiary driver. Obama and the Dumbocrats drove it. Those in the private industry with a vested interest just sat back and didn’t attempt to protest it.

ObamaCare would not exist without private industry. Therefore, it's silly and juvenile for you to characterize it derisively as socialism.

 

[P@triot]

One function of government is to provide a social safety net.

Not it’s not. That is not a function of government at all. I’ve already proven that. Government exists for one reason and one reason only: to secure your rights

 

[P@triot]

We help fellow citizens when they hit hard times. It's just the decent thing to do, all politics aside.

But that’s just it. You don’t help people when they hit hard times. You’re too greedy and too lazy. Which is why you want to deflect that responsibility onto government.

 

[P@triot]

One function of government is to provide a social safety net.

Government exists to secure the rights of people. Charity exists to provide a “social safety net”. That’s just an indisputable fact.

 

[Trump The Mad King]

One function of government is to provide a social safety net.

Not it’s not. That is not a function of government at all. I’ve already proven that. Government exists for one reason and one reason only: to secure your rights

So what does "secure your rights" mean, professor? You keep saying that, but you won't define what it means.

You can't keep harping on one part of the constitution and ignore everything else. "Promote the general welfare" can be interpreted a million different ways, including a national health care system, welfare system, etc.,. And the Supreme Court agrees with me, not you.

 

[P@triot]

That is part of the social contract that the Constitution outlines ("promote the general welfare")

The “general welfare” is not an enumerated power. Here is none other than the architect of our entire republic, Thomas Jefferson himself, explaining as much...

“Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson (June 6, 1817)

“[We] disavow, and declare to be most false and unfounded, the doctrine that the [Constitution], in authorizing its federal branch to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, has given them thereby a power to do whatever they may think, or pretend, would promote the general welfare–which construction would make that of itself a complete government, without limitation of powers.… The plain sense and obvious meaning were that they might levy the taxes necessary to provide for the general welfare by the various acts of power therein specified and delegated to them, and by no others. – Thomas Jefferson (December 24, 1825)

 

[P@triot]

So what does "secure your rights" mean, professor? You keep saying that, but you won't define what it means.

Well you haven’t asked me to “define” what it means. It’s pretty self explanatory but I’m happy to discuss it.

It is their job to make sure that nobody enslaves you. It is their job to make sure that nobody prevents your freedom of speech. It is their job to make sure that nobody prevents your freedom of religion. It is their job to make sure that nobody prevents your right to keep and bear arms. It goes on and on of course.

That’s why constitutional government is critical and more important than anything else.

 

[Slade3200]

That is EXACTLY why government exists. To handle problems too large and complex for private industry.

Pay attention here, sparky. Straight from the Declaration of Independence - which Trump The Mad King (aka ”Dubya the Last Repug Pres”) clearly never read:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.——That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”

Government exists for one reason and one reason only: to secure your rights. Not to provide your rights. Not to do what you THINK private industry can’t do. Not to give you stuff. The founders implemented government to ensure your rights were secured.

Pat... you should have kept highlighting... that last line.. “deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” What do you understand that to mean?

 

[Slade3200]

Government is not in the business of “solving massive problems” and everyone in government would be the first to tell you that the private sector can do that exponentially better than they can.

Are you including the Millitary in that statement?

 

[Trump The Mad King]

That is part of the social contract that the Constitution outlines ("promote the general welfare")

The “general welfare” is not an enumerated power. Here is none other than the architect of our entire republic, Thomas Jefferson himself, explaining as much...

“Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson (June 6, 1817)

“[We] disavow, and declare to be most false and unfounded, the doctrine that the [Constitution], in authorizing its federal branch to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, has given them thereby a power to do whatever they may think, or pretend, would promote the general welfare–which construction would make that of itself a complete government, without limitation of powers.… The plain sense and obvious meaning were that they might levy the taxes necessary to provide for the general welfare by the various acts of power therein specified and delegated to them, and by no others. – Thomas Jefferson (December 24, 1825)

Thomas Jefferson was not one of the authors of the Constitution. He was always an advocate of limited government, which is the main reason he did not get along with Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, and other members of the Federalist Party in the late 1700s/early 1800s. So, of course, you're going to quote his version of what "general welfare" means.

Societies always become more liberal over time. Not even Thomas Jefferson can stop that from happening. This is why your version of conservatism is obsolete and simply will not last in the long run.

And like I've stated a couple of times now -- your Repug Supreme Court disagrees with you. The federal government has the right to setup a national health care system. Again, if you don't like what our elected officials are doing, you and other Repugs can do your best to get every Democrat removed from Congress so that you can eventually have a federal government that is nothing but elected Repug officials and members of the military.

 

[rightwinger]

Never met a Canadian who wants to abandon their healthcare system in return for ours

I met a Brit who did. He was here on a work visa and told me first-hand what a horror story England’s national healthcare system was. Said he LOVED the U.S. healthcare system because he would call for an appointment and get in the same day. Said that in England, his appointment would be scheduled for two months later (by which time his sore throat, fever, or flu would be gone).

So...let’s be honest here wrongwinger...you’ve never actually met a Canadian.

Met a Brit one time at a National Park

Told me he had heart surgery and never even got a bill

That sounds pretty fucking awesome to me. But what does a liberal like me know.

I think Repugs would rather have the "freedom" to die a miserable and painful death instead.

My wife had a heart procedure and i ended up with a stack of bills a half inch thick and had to argue with the doctors and insurance companies on what I was expected to pay

Out of pocket expenses were a major financial blow

Imagine going to the hospital and everything is covered