Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

[uscitizen]

IF YOU WORK FOR A COMPANY YOU DON'T LIKE YOU CAN QUIT!!!

What part of this don't you understand? It is not slavery if you can QUIT.

Slavery would be forcing you to pay into a system in which if you had the choice, would opt out of like social security. OH WAIT. ...fucking idiots...everywhere.

Good attitude for right wingers in government to have.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That video is a perfect exemplar of boedicca and pals.

 

[Bern80]

The only lack of substantial discussion here is that of Bern80. History condemns business exploitation of individuals, not defend its humanitarian nature.

In some cases yes that happens. Governments have simply shown to be far worse. It is noted as always that you are unable to address the the obvious contradictions in your argument.

 

[Bern80]

The fact that it produces unsubstantive rebuttals such as yours suggests it a pretty good one. It directly addresses the original OP regarding who should one trust. History tells us who that should be. Past actions tell us how much we should people and institutions with our well being. Unless you want to argue the numbers presented, historically speaking governments have clearly not had the well being of their citizens at heart. Can you you show even remotely comparable numbers from a corporation? Of course you can't. This is what happens when reality smacks someone with a contrary belief square in the head. It demands a response from you of some type, but you know you can't argue it with facts. And so we get treated to verbal diarhea like your response here.

Thank you. Body count is a pretty concrete metric for how lethal a social construct is. In terms of killing innocent people, governments are far more "effective" than any corporation.

Yes, governments become more effective in oppression with business support and money. Look at Nazi Germany. Look at businesses throughout the South right through the Civil Rights Campaign. Thanks, body.

and we are all waiting here with baited breathe for you to show us evidence that somehow corporations corrupted Hitler into killing a few million jews. No really, we'll wait.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bern80 can offer no proof for what he argues. Governments, hopefully, rein in business excesses. Business does its darnedest to corrupt and pull down government in order to make the people scream. Neither Bern nor Boedicca can answer the insidious synergy of German fascism and German capitalism that led to industrialized mass murder.

 

[Liberty]

Bern80 can offer no proof for what he argues. Governments, hopefully, rein in business excesses. Business does its darnedest to corrupt and pull down government in order to make the people scream. Neither Bern nor Boedicca can answer the insidious synergy of German fascism and German capitalism that led to industrialized mass murder.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

trick question, big government is a corporation, largest in the world.

Government, and the corporate world need massive reform, and a reformed business ethics class that teaches CEOs and Obama that greed is killing our nation, if it hasn't already.

 

[uscitizen]

trick question, big government is a corporation, largest in the world.

Government, and the corporate world need massive reform, and a reformed business ethics class that teaches CEOs and Obama that greed is killing our nation, if it hasn't already.

That would be bad for the stock market.
Reality has little place in sales and marketing.

 

[Bern80]

Bern80 can offer no proof for what he argues. Governments, hopefully, rein in business excesses. Business does its darnedest to corrupt and pull down government in order to make the people scream. Neither Bern nor Boedicca can answer the insidious synergy of German fascism and German capitalism that led to industrialized mass murder.

Weasel there isn't a debate on this one. What you believe to be true of business is observarbley and by in large not true.

Follow along now weasel; if what you say is true, that businesses would treat people as poorly as possible if not for government regulation, then the reality right now should be that business should be doing absolutely no more than what government requires of them in terms of employee compensation. Please explain to all of us why, under YOUR argument, businesses are compensating people more than they have to.

Oh we are still waiting for your evidence that Hitler wasn't really evil he was just corrupted by evil corporations into killing a few million people.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have lost when you use such a term, and you know it, Bern80. You can prove Hitler wasn't evil if you want, since that is your suggestion and not mine, but I believe he was. And German capitalism and big business, that empowered his evil and led to industrial mass murder that only they could prefect and produce, were his dark masters. For shame on you, Bern80, for shame.

 

[Bern80]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

So give it to them. You want someone to blame for some greedy CEO's? It isn't governments job to hold them accountable, IT'S YOURS.

Stop thinking about life in terms of haves and have nots. Cause that isn't what its about. It's about those that 'get it' and those that don't 'get it'. And I just don't get how those of you who don't get it think.

For example, how on one hand can you complain about how much a manager makes while at the same time bemoaning how poor compensation is? Life takes money so don't begrudge those that figure out how to get it. It's not about how hard you work anymore. It's about how smart you work. There is nothing inherently noble about working 50 hours a week at a salaried 9-5 job. Figure out how to get money to live life. period. The vast majority of people do that by acquiring some skill set that someone will pay them for. Those managers get that money because someone thinks they're worth it. When that skill set is no longer in demand they will not be the paid the ungodly amounts of money you complain about. But how valuable YOU think they are is irrelevant.

There is also a small percentage of people (the really wealthy ones you all piss and moan about) that have figured out how to get the most out of life what the rest of us would love to have if money were no object. Wouldn't you put yourself in their shoes if you could? Would we all like a life where there isn't a care in the world? So how can you begrudge people that figure out how to get there? These people don't leave destruction in their wake. They leave jobs that weren't there before. They have figure out a secret. If you want the life we all dream of and make the most out of the short time we have here, figure out how to make money work for you and quit working so damn hard for money.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bern80, quit your whining.

The people have made their choice. That is why we have some financial reform (not enough), that is why we have some stimulus (not effective), that is why we have some health insurance industry reform (would be better with a two-tier payer system).

Business is about profit and is thus amoral and manipulative and manipulated by capital. Government is about service, but its servants can be corrupted by capital. Whereas business is answerable only to its owners and stockholders, government is answerable to the electorate.

You would be at your best in the 1870s and 1880s. You have the heart of a robber baron.

 

[The T]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

So give it to them. You want someone to blame for some greedy CEO's? It isn't governments job to hold them accountable, IT'S YOURS.

Stop thinking about life in terms of haves and have nots. Cause that isn't what its about. It's about those that 'get it' and those that don't 'get it'. And I just don't get how those of you who don't get it think.

For example, how on one hand can you complain about how much a manager makes while at the same time bemoaning how poor compensation is? Life takes money so don't begrudge those that figure out how to get it. It's not about how hard you work anymore. It's about how smart you work. There is nothing inherently noble about working 50 hours a week at a salaried 9-5 job. Figure out how to get money to live life. period. The vast majority of people do they by acquiring some skill set that someone will pay them for. Those managers get that money because someone thinks they're worth it. When that skill set is no longer in demand they will not be the paid the ungodly amounts of money you complain about. But how valuable YOU think they are is irrelevant.

There is also a small percentage of people (the really wealthy ones you all poss and moan about) that have figured out how to get the out of life what the rest of us would love to have if money were no object. Wouldn't you put yourself in their shoes if you could. Would we all like a life where there isn't a care in the world? So how can you begrudge people that figure out how to get there. These people don't leave destruction their wake. They leave jobs that weren't there before. They have figure out a secret. If you want the life we all dream of and make the most out of the short time we have here, figure out how to make money work for you and quit working so damn hard for money.

Yep. You hold Corporations accountable by not patronizing their product.

It's people spending on what they sell/produce that makes them what they are.

And it's Government's job to let it happen.

Just stay out of our way.

 

[Richard-H]

You have lost when you use such a term, and you know it, Bern80. You can prove Hitler wasn't evil if you want, since that is your suggestion and not mine, but I believe he was. And German capitalism and big business, that empowered his evil and led to industrial mass murder that only they could prefect and produce, were his dark masters. For shame on you, Bern80, for shame.

The basis of Hitler's power was his overwhelming popularity with the German people. The main reason why he was so popular is that he almost instantaneously and seemingly miraculously transformed the German economy. Unemployment went from ~40% to 0% overnight.

How did he do it? Not much is said about that.

From what I understand, massive deficit spending combined with a huge military build up - and a disassociation with the western banking system.

Needless to say, there was huge cooperation and support between the German corporations and the Nazi government. I doubt the corporations had much of a choice.

The fact is: the Germans had the resources and the people to have a robust economy, it was the economic leadership prior to the Nazi take over that was preventing the German economy from working - and keeping the German people at near starvation.

Unfortunately, it seems that in an economy where the prerequisite for economic growth is the excessive profit of a tiny minority of the people - the vast majority will always get screwed.

 

[Richard-H]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

So give it to them. You want someone to blame for some greedy CEO's? It isn't governments job to hold them accountable, IT'S YOURS.

Stop thinking about life in terms of haves and have nots. Cause that isn't what its about. It's about those that 'get it' and those that don't 'get it'. And I just don't get how those of you who don't get it think.

For example, how on one hand can you complain about how much a manager makes while at the same time bemoaning how poor compensation is? Life takes money so don't begrudge those that figure out how to get it. It's not about how hard you work anymore. It's about how smart you work. There is nothing inherently noble about working 50 hours a week at a salaried 9-5 job. Figure out how to get money to live life. period. The vast majority of people do they by acquiring some skill set that someone will pay them for. Those managers get that money because someone thinks they're worth it. When that skill set is no longer in demand they will not be the paid the ungodly amounts of money you complain about. But how valuable YOU think they are is irrelevant.

There is also a small percentage of people (the really wealthy ones you all poss and moan about) that have figured out how to get the out of life what the rest of us would love to have if money were no object. Wouldn't you put yourself in their shoes if you could. Would we all like a life where there isn't a care in the world? So how can you begrudge people that figure out how to get there. These people don't leave destruction their wake. They leave jobs that weren't there before. They have figure out a secret. If you want the life we all dream of and make the most out of the short time we have here, figure out how to make money work for you and quit working so damn hard for money.

Yes, the great secret that they've discovered is legal theivery - how to make a huge income without any real productive contribution to society.

Let the suckers do the hard productive work. Some fucking secret!

Money doesn't work, people do.

 

[The Rabbi]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

How do you know CEOs are not worth 500 times what a mid level manager is, TitanicLoser?
The fact is that they are worth that, and probably more.

The auto companies management did cave. And their companies should have suffered the penalty of the marketplace and gone bankrupt. That is how markets self-regulate.
But the Obamoids decided to pander to their union buddies and save their jobs with your money.

 

[Bern80]

You have lost when you use such a term, and you know it, Bern80. You can prove Hitler wasn't evil if you want, since that is your suggestion and not mine, but I believe he was. And German capitalism and big business, that empowered his evil and led to industrial mass murder that only they could prefect and produce, were his dark masters. For shame on you, Bern80, for shame.

No I suggested he was evil and that the type of government he formed would not have changed that a lick. Pursuit of money did not kill the jews or even play a role in it. Hitler's hatred of them did that.

 

[Richard-H]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

How do you know CEOs are not worth 500 times what a mid level manager is, TitanicLoser?
The fact is that they are worth that, and probably more.

The auto companies management did cave. And their companies should have suffered the penalty of the marketplace and gone bankrupt. That is how markets self-regulate.
But the Obamoids decided to pander to their union buddies and save their jobs with your money.

You mean CEOs like Ken Ley? Or the brilliant bunch that runs BP? Perhaps the CEO of Goldman-Sachs who recieved a $70mil bonus in 2008?

Most corporate execs are a bunch of worthless trustee fund babies that couldn't make correct decision if they got smacked over the head with it.

Corporations are successful because of the hard work and intelligence of the workers - despite the idiotic execs.

 

[The T]

You have lost when you use such a term, and you know it, Bern80. You can prove Hitler wasn't evil if you want, since that is your suggestion and not mine, but I believe he was. And German capitalism and big business, that empowered his evil and led to industrial mass murder that only they could prefect and produce, were his dark masters. For shame on you, Bern80, for shame.

No I suggested he was evil and that the type of government he formed would not have changed that a lick. Pursuit of money did not kill the jews or even play a role in it. Hitler's hatred of them did that.

Hitler's hatred of Jews came from his own shortcomings...as it does for those that still practice what he did then. All it does is send Society into a nasty tailspin to relearn lessons to repeat...rinse...repeat.