Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

[The T]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

How do you know CEOs are not worth 500 times what a mid level manager is, TitanicLoser?
The fact is that they are worth that, and probably more.

The auto companies management did cave. And their companies should have suffered the penalty of the marketplace and gone bankrupt. That is how markets self-regulate.
But the Obamoids decided to pander to their union buddies and save their jobs with your money.

Yes they should have gone under and dealt with the wrath of the public that lost trust in them.

 

[Bern80]

Yes, the great secret that they've discovered is legal theivery - how to make a huge income without any real productive contribution to society.

Let the suckers do the hard productive work. Some fucking secret!

Money doesn't work, people do.

Money can make more money without you having to lift a finge AND without taking advantage of othersr. You are clearly a 'don't get it'. Wanna here another dirty little secret. Those people have contributed far more to society in the jobs they create and the philanthropy their money allows than any government ever has.

Thievery? Is it thievery to expect someone to pay you for providing them a place to live? Please explain this to me. How are they stealing from you? Who else besides the government is taking your money without your consent?

And your damn right the suckers can do the hard work for all I care. I have zero pity for people who will not do what it takes and are perfectally capable of. There's nothing special about the Warren Buffet's of the world. He didn't do anything that is impossible for anyone else. he CHOSE to educate himself. And fuck people like you that would prefer to take their time here pissing and moaning instead of doing the same.

 

[Political Junky]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

 

[The T]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

Nice...But Corporations still RELY upon patronage of the people or they don't survive. And neither did MUSSOLINI.

 

[Richard-H]

You have lost when you use such a term, and you know it, Bern80. You can prove Hitler wasn't evil if you want, since that is your suggestion and not mine, but I believe he was. And German capitalism and big business, that empowered his evil and led to industrial mass murder that only they could prefect and produce, were his dark masters. For shame on you, Bern80, for shame.

No I suggested he was evil and that the type of government he formed would not have changed that a lick. Pursuit of money did not kill the jews or even play a role in it. Hitler's hatred of them did that.

Hitler's hatred of Jews came from his own shortcomings...as it does for those that still practice what he did then. All it does is send Society into a nasty tailspin to relearn lessons to repeat...rinse...repeat.

Wrong again. Anti-Semitism was rampant throughout Germany long before Hitler. The 'Christian Democratic' party (which Hitler transformed into the Nazi party) was particularly anti-semetic. Hitler himself said (in Mein Kampf) that he was not anti-semetic until after joining the Christian-Democrats.

Anti-semetism was a politcal talking point that Hitler capitalized on.

Note: German anti-semetism was long rooted in the fact the Martin Luther hated Jews.

 

[shintao]

Thievery? Is it thievery to expect someone to pay you for providing them a place to live?

You maybe onto something there, but then prostitution houses are still illegal in California, and they haven't restored the child labor laws yet, or the child pornography, but Craig is hoping.

 

[Richard-H]

Yes, the great secret that they've discovered is legal theivery - how to make a huge income without any real productive contribution to society.

Let the suckers do the hard productive work. Some fucking secret!

Money doesn't work, people do.

Money can make more money without you having to lift a finge AND without taking advantage of othersr. You are clearly a 'don't get it'. Wanna here another dirty little secret. Those people have contributed far more to society in the jobs they create and the philanthropy their money allows than any government ever has.

Thievery? Is it thievery to expect someone to pay you for providing them a place to live? Please explain this to me. How are they stealing from you? Who else besides the government is taking your money without your consent?

And your damn right the suckers can do the hard work for all I care. I have zero pity for people who will not do what it takes and are perfectally capable of. There's nothing special about the Warren Buffet's of the world. He didn't do anything that is impossible for anyone else. he CHOSE to educate himself. And fuck people like you that would prefer to take their time here pissing and moaning instead of doing the same.

Oh BULLSHIT! What you call 'contributing far more to soceity' is the economically advantaged taking advantage of the economically disadvantaged.

It's called PROFIT - getting more out of any transaction than you put into it.

Workers aren't hired out of the goodness of employers hearts - the employers NEED them. Landlords aren't charitable people - they get more out of rent than the building is worth.

At each and every step capitalism is theivery - every worker gets paid less than his true worth - that's how profit is created.

If people were paid according to their productive value there would be no such thing as profit.

 

[Bern80]

Most corporate execs are a bunch of worthless trustee fund babies that couldn't make correct decision if they got smacked over the head with it.

This is statistically incorrect. Open a fucking book. Most wealthy people aren't born with it and those that do leave a business to their children generally don't like seeing what they built, crumble. Get fucking real.

Corporations are successful because of the hard work and intelligence of the workers - despite the idiotic execs.

Again you prove you are don't get it. Any idiot can put part A on part B for 8 hours a day, or answer a phone. Very few people learn how a business system works. Good example I read: You work at McDonalds flippin burgers. You think you can make a better burger than your idiot bosses. THEN GO FUCKING DO IT. Take long hard look at EVERYTHING it takes to to be able to deliever a burger that people like in under 5 minutes in damn near every town in the country. THEN come back here and tell us all how much smarter you are than the people who are responsible for that. Tell me you know everything your boss is responsible better than he does. You don't. IF you did his job would be yours.

 

[Dr Grump]

Most corporate execs are a bunch of worthless trustee fund babies that couldn't make correct decision if they got smacked over the head with it.

This is statistically incorrect. Open a fucking book. Most wealthy people aren't born with it and those that do leave a business to their children generally don't like seeing what they built, crumble. Get fucking real.

Corporations are successful because of the hard work and intelligence of the workers - despite the idiotic execs.

Again you prove you are don't get it. Any idiot can put part A on part B for 8 hours a day, or answer a phone. Very few people learn how a business system works. Good example I read: You work at McDonalds flippin burgers. You think you can make a better burger than your idiot bosses. THEN GO FUCKING DO IT. Take long hard look at EVERYTHING it takes to to be able to deliever a burger that people like in under 5 minutes in damn near every town in the country. THEN come back here and tell us all how much smarter you are than the people who are responsible for that. Tell me you know everything your boss is responsible better than he does. You don't. IF you did his job would be yours.

Cursing aside, I'd say you are both right and wrong. I'd say there are a shit load of ex-executives and Lehman brothers and Bearings bank who wouldn't pass an intelligence test.

I think there is a fine line between a compnay rewarding its employees and explointing them. I can't think of too many 'nice' companies before labour laws came into effect.

 

[shintao]

Yes they should have gone under and dealt with the wrath of the public that lost trust in them.

Hmm, maybe we agree on that. You also include WallStreet, Banks, etc. I assume? All the way back to when Bush entered office? Or further is ok.............. Capitalism dictates that if a business fails, another business will rise up to fill that demand. You agree?

 

[Liberty]

Yes they should have gone under and dealt with the wrath of the public that lost trust in them.

Hmm, maybe we agree on that. You also include WallStreet, Banks, etc. I assume? All the way back to when Bush entered office? Or further is ok.............. Capitalism dictates that if a business fails, another business will rise up to fill that demand. You agree?

what gives you the right to ask questions but never answer them?

 

[Bern80]

Oh BULLSHIT! What you call 'contributing far more to soceity' is the economically advantaged taking advantage of the economically disadvantaged.

Creating jobs where the weren't jobs before. How the fuck do you think charities get funded>? The government and poor people? Get on this fucking planet please.

Workers aren't hired out of the goodness of employers hearts - the employers NEED them. Landlords aren't charitable people - they get more out of rent than the building is worth.

What are they supposed to do? Take in less than what they owe? This gonna pretty hard to explain to someone who apparently doesn't get basic math.

At each and every step capitalism is theivery - every worker gets paid less than his true worth - that's how profit is created.

If people were paid according to their productive value there would be no such thing as profit.

And without profit business could not continue to exist which means jobs don't continue to exist. If you only make enough to cover your expenses your business won't last very long.

And as far as labor goes I guess including skipping out on math you skipped out on basic econ too. There is a market for everything, including labor. You think your skills are worth X and your potential employer thinks there worth Y. It's free fucking country. Either negotiate something in between you can both live with, convince them your worth more or go somewhere else, or learn the skills that will get you paid more. The test as to whether you are as valuable as you say you are is how expendable you are. If you are indispsensible, if no one else can do what you do, than you will likely get the pay you want, but if someone else will do the same job for less than you will take than NO you are not worth what you think you are. That is how the price of EVERYTHING is determined.

 

[Liberty]

Bern, I have seen you make nothing but logical responses and i just want to say good job. Not because I agree with you, but because for some reason I always find fallacy with the arguments made from the left. I hope one day I can find someone who sits on the left that can actually create a logical and intellectual statement...I am starting to lose hope a little bit though.

 

[Bern80]

I think there is a fine line between a compnay rewarding its employees and explointing them. I can't think of too many 'nice' companies before labour laws came into effect.

This is essentially the same argument the weasel made. If it's true that labor laws are the only thing keeping employers from exploiting people, should it not stand to reason that under current laws, employers should only be compensating people at the bear minimum the law requires?

 

[Liberty]

I'd like to remind all the socialist left wingers out there:

people are not slaves to corporations. the employed can terminate their own employment and seek better opportunities at any time. That is their right.

Just like it SHOULD be the right of the person to keep the fruits of their labor out of the clutches of leviathan government, but hey, no one ever said hypocrisy wasn't a staple of the socialist.

 

[shintao]

I'd like to remind all the socialist left wingers out there:

people are not slaves to corporations. the employed can terminate their own employment and seek better opportunities at any time. That is their right.

I agree, they are not slaves to corporations, but to capitalist exploitation. And there are other jobs, you just have to be willing to relocate to get one of them. People wanted a global economy, but they think that meant they were exempt. Sorry! Your next job is in China, of S. Africa. The job isn't going to come in your front door, you have to go get it. That lovely cottage on the hill & two kids in college is a dream.

Just like it SHOULD be the right of the person to keep the fruits of their labor out of the clutches of leviathan government, but hey, no one ever said hypocrisy wasn't a staple of the socialist.

You have to understand, you want to cut social programs? Fine! But I want to cut Corporate Welfare & the Military. Don't think this is a oneway street, because it isn't. If libs lose, so do cons. All Volunteer Government Party (AVGP)

 

[uscitizen]

Silly labor laws keep children wanting to work in coal mines from earning money for their families.

 

[The Rabbi]

A company and our nation can be successful without management pretending they are worth 500 times a mid level employee or more.............

The corporate world needs an ass chewin. Many of the union deals that sank the auto industry were OK'd by CEOs who KNEW the plans were unsustainable and still signed them. You know why? Because they retired a few years later with millions, so who cares if the company and workers were screwed.

and then there's self serving pig government...........

How do you know CEOs are not worth 500 times what a mid level manager is, TitanicLoser?
The fact is that they are worth that, and probably more.

The auto companies management did cave. And their companies should have suffered the penalty of the marketplace and gone bankrupt. That is how markets self-regulate.
But the Obamoids decided to pander to their union buddies and save their jobs with your money.

You mean CEOs like Ken Ley? Or the brilliant bunch that runs BP? Perhaps the CEO of Goldman-Sachs who recieved a $70mil bonus in 2008?

Most corporate execs are a bunch of worthless trustee fund babies that couldn't make correct decision if they got smacked over the head with it.

Corporations are successful because of the hard work and intelligence of the workers - despite the idiotic execs.

Spoken like a true class warrior.
Here's Thomas Sowell on executive pay.
Townhall - The "Greed" Fallacy

 

[The Rabbi]

Silly labor laws keep children wanting to work in coal mines from earning money for their families.

Yeah. They could be doing hard labor on farms instead.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think there is a fine line between a compnay rewarding its employees and explointing them. I can't think of too many 'nice' companies before labour laws came into effect.

This is essentially the same argument the weasel made. If it's true that labor laws are the only thing keeping employers from exploiting people, should it not stand to reason that under current laws, employers should only be compensating people at the bear minimum the law requires?

The continued negative language reveals your anger and weakness of argument, Bern80. Three words: get over it.

Labor laws are there to rein in and oppose the unprincipled and evil practices among businesses. Those businesses who act as you believe they will have nothing to be concerned about except their badly acting peers. So your answer should be to correct and coerce your errant brethren instead of trying to corrupt government.

Quit the whining, Bern80, and shape up.