Could all Religions Come Together?

[Lisa558]

You were fine until you got to the last paragraph. God's free offer of His grace is not a personal vendetta against the Jews. God was sending ME to Hell before I put my full trust in Jesus Christ.

Gd is sending good Jews, as well as good Christians, to Heaven. i don’t believe in any “free” offer. One’s place in the World to Come is earned while down here on Earth.

God extends that offer to everyone without regard to race, culture, or religion. There is neither slave nor free, nor Jew or Gentile, for we are all one in Christ Jesus.

In my view, Gd extends the same offer to everyone without regard to race, culture, or religion. Telling me “we are all one in Christ” is a nasty thing to say to a practicing Jew. It would be acceptable if you were to say “in your view.”

I wish you would separate all the wrong that has been done to the Jews with just standard Christian beliefs, which you feel is the root cause of ALL evil toward Jews. It's not by a long shot. The Nazi regime were FAR from Christian, though they tragically roped some Christians into their demonic scheme. Muslims, who persecute and hate Jews, are not Christian.

Yes, I do feel the standard Christian beliefs that teach Gd is sending Jews to hell has resulted in MOST of the evil done to them. It is the same reason Muslims do evil to Jews: the Quran teaches hate to Jews. (Judaism does not even mention Christians or Muslims.) So I will expand: the negative teachings of other religions toward Jews is the root of the wrongs done to them.

Or take another tactic here. I know you reject and maybe even resent my Savior, and that's fine. You are free to do so. It doesn't bother me. That's your right.

I reject him as the Messiah. I don’t resent the poor guy. He suffered a horrible death.

But it REALLY bothers you that people hold Orthodox Christian beliefs, and you are extremely judgmental about it.

Yes, I resent when Christian Fundamentalists hold beliefs that Jews go to hell for the same reason I resent that Muslim Fundamentalists teach that Jews are offspring of apes and swine, and for the same reason: the consequences of those prejudicial beliefs toward the Jewish people.

Finally, think about this: you are saying *I* am being judgmental for disapproving of Christian beliefs that say the Jews are damned to hell, and YOU believe Jews are damned to hell. Now tell me….who is being more judgmental? I can’t think of anything more judgmental than saying an entire religious group goes to hell.

 

[norwegen]

oh In what way did Jesus THREATEN the
PHARISEES? When did that wonderful
spirit of cooperation develope between the
romans and the pharisees? Were Caiaphas
and Herod pharisees?

In what way did Jesus threaten the Romans? When did that wonderful spirit of cooperation develop between Jesus and the Pharisees?

 

[Meriweather]

And Interesting that Christians tell Catholics* that they are going to hell, too. But I think it’s worse with Jews because they seem to be the “conversion targets” of Evangelicals.

"Jews for Jesus" proves your point as they did not come up with a program of "Catholics for Jesus."

I will be condemned by many Christians, but I have advised young Jews (who have asked) against joining Jews for Jesus and why it is against their own faith beliefs. Evangelicals have no qualms about using young Christian peers to pressure classmates into joining this group.

 

[Lisa558]

In fact, Jesus called us to good works and his life centered on good works. He flatly stated once that good works would result with being with his sheep, lack of these works would put his followers with the goats.

I can certainly believe that. Jesus was a practicing Jew and taught Jewish values. Thus the focus on good works.

The Christian denominations that decided good works don't matter, were sneaky about it. They conflated the issue, claiming those who were doing good works were trying to "earn" their way into heaven. In fact, good works have nothing to do with heaven, they have to do with loving God and loving one's neighbor. Heaven is a gift of God, not His "paycheck" to us for good works. Good works are expected; they are not an "Admit One" entrance ticket into heaven.

Yes, I agree. I remember once I asked my dad (when I was around 7 or 8) why we need to do good things. His answer was simple: Because that’s what Gd wants of us.

And thanks for your insights about the early Christians minimizing good works. It was simply a way to reject Judaism‘s teachings. And it also is in opposition to what Jesus taught.

Some denominations teach that while their denomination are prompted to perform good works due to their baptism, baptized Catholics, simply by definition, are only doing good works to earn their way into heaven. Grin. We Catholics can't do anything right!

Yeah, Catholics can get a bum rap too. Can’t win for losing!

 

[Lisa558]

"Jews for Jesus" proves your point as they did not come up with a program of "Catholics for Jesus."

I will be condemned by many Christians, but I have advised young Jews (who have asked) against joining Jews for Jesus and why it is against their own faith beliefs. Evangelicals have no qualms about using young Christian peers to pressure classmates into joining this group.

Yes. The “Jews for Jesus” is a sneaky group. The background is that it formed because Christians were having such a dismal “conversion ratio” that they came up with a new strategy: tell Jews they can still be Jews AND follow Jesus. Of course, that has had a poor success rate as well.

 

[Meriweather]

*I was about 10 or 12 years old when I first realized there was a distinction between Christians and Catholics, and to tell the truth, I’m still unclear. Wouldn’t everyone who believes in Christ be a Christian? And if Catholics believe in Jesus, why do other Christians think they’re going to hell?

This gets complicated as it begins with being told the wrong reasons for Catholic traditions and rites. Some of the most common are Catholics worship idols, worship Jesus' mother, go against what they say Jesus taught about calling priests 'Father' and using rosaries. Catch a Catholic in a good work, and that Catholic most certainly is only doing good to earn their way to heaven. This goes on and on. It comes with not bothering to ask a Catholic why they do certain things, it comes with them telling Catholics why they are doing what they are doing. What they come up with is so funny and ridiculous, most of us just giggle and carry on.

 

[Lisa558]

This gets complicated as it begins with being told the wrong reasons for Catholic traditions and rites. Some of the most common are Catholics worship idols, worship Jesus' mother, go against what they say Jesus taught about calling priests 'Father' and using rosaries. Catch a Catholic in a good work, and that Catholic most certainly is only doing good to earn their way to heaven. This goes on and on. It comes with not bothering to ask a Catholic why they do certain things, it comes with them telling Catholics why they are doing what they are doing. What they come up with is so funny and ridiculous, most of us just giggle and carry on.

Wow….Interesting. Lots of prejudice against Catholics.

My longest-term friend, whom I met when we both were four, is a Catholic. We are still in regular contact, and see each other about once every couple of months. She invites me to her Christmas dinners, and I invite her to my annual Chanukah brunch. I love our shared history, and religion has never been an issue.

 

[Meriweather]

My longest-term friend, whom I met when we both were four, is a Catholic. We are still in regular contact, and see each other about once every couple of months. She invites me to her Christmas dinners, and I invite her to my annual Chanukah brunch. I love our shared history, and religion has never been an issue.

One of my goddaughters was in an interesting situation. Her father was Catholic, her mother Jewish. Before we met the family the mother had a stroke, and the father was left to raise two children. While he was happy to share their mother's beliefs, he was equally happy to share his own faith, and the daughter convinced him she wished to be baptized Catholic. (She was a teenager at the time.) She asked me to be her godmother, and I said I would as long as she was certain these were her beliefs. She was.

We moved, she went to off to college, and her father passed away. A few years later she contacted me. She had reconciled with her mother's family (who had disowned her for marrying a Catholic), and she was thinking about converting to Judaism. Would I be upset? I said, Of course not, but look first to the Holy Spirit--the Spirit of God--before coming to her decision. Which path was He calling her to follow. She did decide on conversion to Judaism, and the last I heard was happy and content with her decision. She always has been a wonderful, loving person, and I am sure safe in the Hands of God.

There is no reason why people of faith cannot get along.

 

[The Irish Ram]

1) How about the HORRIFIC lies that Irish Ram is making up about Jews? Have you heard the nasty shit she’s been spewing? (I finally put her on ignore.) But I notice you haven’t condemned HER.

2) My only “swipe” against your religion is when Christians go around telling Jews that only Christians go to Heaven, whereas my religion says that Gd welcomes people of all faiths. So you think it’s OK for Christians to REPEATEDLY tell others that they go to hell unless they convert, and *I* am the one who is being intolerant by objecting to that?

Proselytizing, beyond one careful mention, is wrong. How would YOU like to be followed around for a year by a Muslim telling you that Christians will go to hell if they don’t become Muslims, and constantly quoting the Quran to you where it says that (I don’t think it does) as “proof” how Allah will damn you to hell?

Poor little Jewish girl. With a trail of Christians hounding you, and now Muslims following you around daily hating on you and Jews hating you too. I don't think I'm the problem. You just aren't very likable, and love playing the eternal victim. You are your own worst enemy. You can dish it out but you sure can't take it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Exactly! I once went to a Jewish conference, and an Evangelical registered under false pretenses because he saw a way to try to convert Jews. As I was walking back to my hotel, he followed me, telling me how I was going to go to hell.

So I told him that Jews have a separate covenant with Gd, and that it is for ALL generations. I remember his exact words when I said that: “well you are wrong, and I’ll explain why.” WTF? Who asked him? Why after coming out of a Jewish conference do I have to get accosted by him, and be forced to listen to him tell me how wrong I am?

Stop making shit up.

 

[hobelim]

my experiences contradict what u say here. People do not become judgmental because "God is judgmental." They condemn sin because sin is awful, something that is corroborated by EXPERIENCE with said sickness (sin). When I began to know the holiness of God and how Just He is.. that is when i "became judgmental" as you non-Christians would call it. I call it facing reality. You cannot sin mortally and NOT affect all of society.. ADVERSELY---- first your family or whomever you are closest to.. then like waves in a still pond caused by a stone thrown into it... the waves go out a LONG way and the whole "pond" is affected..

Consider this. Jesus was accused of being an unrepentant sinner by extremely dedicated people who observed a strict literal interpretation and application of divine law and if the law is to be taken literally and the subjects of the law were diet fashion and human sexuality, they were right.

Jesus openly defied this literal way to follow the law, the same way that profess to believe..

If you saw Jesus walking down the street, defying religious authorities, 'keeping company' with prostitutes, and partying with sinners and all sorts of bad characters, you would have condemned him as a sinner too and Jesus would have openly called you an actor and lying fraud, a hypocrite.

Jesus taught that the words of the law are figurative and the subjects hidden and not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used, hence the command to "eat my flesh" which shows that kosher law is about teaching and not food. It follows that the laws concerning morality are not about the sexual preferences of people. Jesus saw this view of sin as perverse because it is.

So if you go on condemning others for partying or their sexual preferences you are only siding with the perverse enemies of Jesus, falsely accusing the innocent thereby condemning yourself.

Have a nice day.

 

[irosie91]

I wonder if you realize you're taking vicious swipes at OUR faith--when we were not bothering you at all--and then, when you're called out on it, you're claiming victim status and accusing us of causing the Holocaust?

Does that seem very adult-like to you?

If you're going to take vicious swipes at people's faith, then stand up like a woman and take the blowback. Don't run and hide behind "people were mean to me because I'm a Jew". That might be true, and it's too bad, but you said WHAT YOU SAID.

Sweet, It is clear to me that YOU PREFER to spew
filth and cheer your fellow church girls who SPEW
FILTH than to recognize the fact of YOUR 2000 year
christian history of oppression and murder---your
most prodigious efforts (albeit not exclusive efforts)
being aimed against DA JOOOOS---using your
moronic "VICTIM STATUS" libel --- "da joooos crucified our god" I was viciously attacked by
sluts in plaid jumpers at age 5 because the catechism
nun told them that I murdered a person named
JEEZUS......because I am a jooooo. Reread the FILTHY
POSTS of your fellows before you----as the Pharisee
said "cast the first stone" As to "the holocaust"
----it was SOS same old shit

 

[irosie91]

Stop making shit up.

try again----it's an example of REAL SHIT

 

[irosie91]

You were fine until you got to the last paragraph. God's free offer of His grace is not a personal vendetta against the Jews. God was sending ME to Hell before I put my full trust in Jesus Christ.

God extends that offer to everyone without regard to race, culture, or religion. There is neither slave nor free, nor Jew or Gentile, for we are all one in Christ Jesus.

I wish you would separate all the wrong that has been done to the Jews with just standard Christian beliefs, which you feel is the root cause of ALL evil toward Jews. It's not by a long shot. The Nazi regime were FAR from Christian, though they tragically roped some Christians into their demonic scheme. Muslims, who persecute and hate Jews, are not Christian.

Or take another tactic here. I know you reject and maybe even resent my Savior, and that's fine. You are free to do so. It doesn't bother me. That's your right.

But it REALLY bothers you that people hold Orthodox Christian beliefs, and you are extremely judgmental about it.

how sad-----the christian is EVER MISJUDGED AND
PERSECUTED

 

[The Irish Ram]

Consider this. Jesus was accused of being an unrepentant sinner by extremely dedicated people who observed a strict literal interpretation and application of divine law and if the law is to be taken literally and the subjects of the law were diet fashion and human sexuality, they were right.

Jesus openly defied this literal way to follow the law, the same way that profess to believe..

If you saw Jesus walking down the street, defying religious authorities, 'keeping company' with prostitutes, and partying with sinners and all sorts of bad characters, you would have condemned him as a sinner too and Jesus would have openly called you an actor and lying fraud, a hypocrite.

Jesus taught that the words of the law are figurative and the subjects hidden and not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used, hence the command to "eat my flesh" which shows that kosher law is about teaching and not food. It follows that the laws concerning morality are not about the sexual preferences of people. Jesus saw this view of sin as perverse because it is.

So if you go on condemning others for partying or their sexual preferences you are only siding with the perverse enemies of Jesus, falsely accusing the innocent thereby condemning yourself.

Have a nice day.

Jesus was charged with blasphemy.
Jesus practiced the Law. And fulfilled it.
This is my flesh, this is my blood is a reference to remembrance, to His better covenant for the Jews, and to proclaim His work on the cross. It has nothing to do with teaching or Kosher food or sexual preferences.
It means exactly what it says:
…and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.…

Condemning others is Judging, If you don't want judged, don't judge others. There are sexual preferences that we are glorifying now, that God considers unnatural. The world insists you accept what God does not. We are not called to accept the world. Just the opposite:
Colossians 3:2 Keep your mind on things above, not on worldly things.
Hate the sin, not the sinner...

So, are you suggesting that not accepting Tranny Story Hour for 6 year olds, or abortion, or changing little boys into little girls is siding with Christ's enemies?

 

[irosie91]

In what way did Jesus threaten the Romans? When did that wonderful spirit of cooperation develop between Jesus and the Pharisees?

The attack on the money changers in the temple
court yard was no more nor less than a Maccabean
style attack on Rome. You do not understand
that FACT because you do not have the slightest
understanding of the life and times of CHEEEZUS.
If you knew even a little, then you would know that
the events of the NT---from the killing of John,
mikvah man, to the legend of the murder of infants,
to the crucifixion of cheeezus was ROME vs.
DA JOOOOS. Both Mikvah man and Hillel man
were pharisees---thru and thru

 

[hobelim]

Jesus was charged with blasphemy.
Jesus practiced the Law. And fulfilled it.

You really should read the story again....You are drunk on maudlin fairy tale porridge.

To fulfill the law is to comply with its demands. Sin is disobedience to the Law.

"We know this man is a sinner." John 9:25

 

[emilynghiem]

agree the opening sentence ... as also the same for a polytheistic heaven. monotheism was invented by moses, not from the heavens.

the heavens are infinite, how one joins the club is becoming - pure - the triumph of good vs evil ... the judgement is which the freed spirit accomplished and is what is good about religion, who can make it to the promised land.

- all beings are endless nothing finite about them.

Our language and perceptions are limited and biased by interactions in this world

Yes, I totally agree we can transcend those by seeking the spiritual which governs the material.

BreezeWood maybe my brother would better understand and benefit from where you are coming from and how you teach the problems and solutions.

He posted to me his view of the spiritual process.

At the top he has " heavens" as female and "earth" as male, under the top goal of "A - Androgyny" or balance between the two.

Under that he uses Clubs / Spades for Power/Male and Agility/Female.

Then he has Hearts/Diamond for Art/Female and Science/Male.

We agreed this level stands for Truth and he called it the Holy Spirit. But we got stuck because he saw Wisdom as a subset of Truth that could be foolishness. I said Wisdom tends to be the female and it's Truth that people get attached to their biases and foolish thinking they are convinced is universal.

I asked a friend's advice and she said the level of Art Science was the MIND.

Can you tell me how you see the Heavens?
I said Elohim was the word for God plural which is the collective form and usually Female.

But my brother sees Earth as Male where he puts Power.
So this isn't balanced and does not explain how does the Female Agility and Collective level get restored as equal balance.

The way he has it the male is dominant : earth, power sbc science. But separates female as subjugated not equal.

It's as if we cannot access or invoke the spiritual heavens if he sees wisdom as foolish and truth is dominant.

MIND seems to help explain how to address each other as equals. Art and science are respected equally.

How would you present the Heavens and Earth so these are equally in harmony and there is no false separation or subjugation. How do we address people as spiritual on the heavenly "infinite" level and not dominate earth and material over the collective spiritual level that is infinite?

 

[irosie91]

You really should read the story again....You are drunk on maudlin fairy tale porridge.

To fulfill the law is to comply with its demands. Sin is disobedience to the Law.

"We know this man is a sinner." John 9:25

for the record----cheeezus was not (according to
john who never met him and was not at the trial)
CONVICTED OF BLASPHEMY He was convicted of
SEDITION AGAINST ROME---like thousands of
other pharisees who were also crucified

 

[The Irish Ram]

try again----it's an example of REAL SHIT

I am beginning to doubt that people were constantly following her around shouting profanities and giving her bad grades. First it was Christians, then she added being chased by Muslims. Considering she thinks anybody that isn't Jewish is antisemitic, it is quite possible that her teacher may have been being generous by giving her a C and she turned that into him hating her Jewishness.

And since you don't know her from Adam, you have no way to discern fake shit for real shit.

I am reminded of actors who told of growing up in New York who got beat up every day because they were on their way to ballet lessons, or acting class and had to go threw the Italian section of the neighborhood. What they didn't do was wallow in self pity, become a lifetime victim, or hate Italy because of it.

She has shown 0 respect for the Christians here but demands it in return. It works both ways.