Creationists

[Hollie]

Then surely you can explain how a cell formed naturally with all the necessary components. Don't forget the molecular machines that had to evolve to do what they do within the cell.

I will take purposeful design over random chaotic chance anyday.

There is no such thing as a "molecular machine". That is a silly term frequently used within the fundie christian creationist community which displays an appalling lack of science knowledge. An appalling lack of science knowledge typically defines the fundie christian creationist community.

Oh boy no point in me responding to your ignorance.

What transcribes genetic information hollie ?

What machine components are in a biological cell?

 

[Hollie]

You can also read and respond to my mutation argument. You can read and respond to my genetics argument. You can read and respond to my amino acid argument. Plus many more. You can also respond to questions put to you. I can defend my views but can the counterpart do the same.

Let's be honest. The arguments you claim as yours are not yours at all. The "arguments" are videos produced by creationist ministries such as the ICR and remarkably, Harun Yahya. You do nothing more than post videos and demand others "refute" them.

It's a nonsensical tactic but one you have tried incessantly.

I did not post any videos on my main arguments they were unlike you in my own words.

Anyone can read through the thread and see that you have consistently cut and pasted videos from creationist ministries and then demanded others refute those videos.

 

[Hollie]

Was the flood caused by salt water or fresh water ? The salt content was high enough on the ocean floors that the rain did not dilute it enough to where salt water organisms couldn't survive.

If that were the case then the animals that need salt water and to be near the surface, like some mammals do to breathe, would not survive.



I have no problem if you want to look at it that way but if this is going to be taught in schools then this will have to be address from a logical side and not a spiritual side.

The climate is not that important. The creator gave most all organisms the ability to adapt to our surroundings but there are limits to being able to adapt.

What do you think the climate was like in the ark that would prevent animals from surviving the boat ride ?

Could Antarctic penguins survive the same temperature as a desert turtle?

How do you know they would not survive ?

Same could be said for the faith required to believe that precision in nature is the result of random chance and unguided processes.



Once again I do not have a clue what animals existed at the time of Noah.

The animals that exist today -every animal, mammal, insect, rodent, fish, crustacean,.....everything must have existed at the time of Noah. Have thousands of new species evolved in just 4500 years? Maybe you know more of the Noah tale than is represented in the bible?

 

[rabbitthekitten]

Let's be honest. The arguments you claim as yours are not yours at all. The "arguments" are videos produced by creationist ministries such as the ICR and remarkably, Harun Yahya. You do nothing more than post videos and demand others "refute" them.

It's a nonsensical tactic but one you have tried incessantly.

I did not post any videos on my main arguments they were unlike you in my own words.

Anyone can read through the thread and see that you have consistently cut and pasted videos from creationist ministries and then demanded others refute those videos.

The simple answer to why creationism is wrong is that it is impossible because there is no god. No one to create. Ergo it is a flawed theory.

 

[Hollie]

Was the flood caused by salt water or fresh water ? The salt content was high enough on the ocean floors that the rain did not dilute it enough to where salt water organisms couldn't survive.

If that were the case then the animals that need salt water and to be near the surface, like some mammals do to breathe, would not survive.



I have no problem if you want to look at it that way but if this is going to be taught in schools then this will have to be address from a logical side and not a spiritual side.

The climate is not that important. The creator gave most all organisms the ability to adapt to our surroundings but there are limits to being able to adapt.

What do you think the climate was like in the ark that would prevent animals from surviving the boat ride ?

Could Antarctic penguins survive the same temperature as a desert turtle?

How do you know they would not survive ?

Same could be said for the faith required to believe that precision in nature is the result of random chance and unguided processes.

Once again I do not have a clue what animals existed at the time of Noah.

What precision in nature do you see that is a function of the gods? Planetary bombardment by asteroids, cell mutation/degeneration from cosmic radiation? Did you ever hear of Shoemaker-Levy? Have you ever seen photos of Tangusta?

Really, man. You announce your creationist/flat earth ignorance like its a badge of honor.

 

[Youwerecreated]

There is no such thing as a "molecular machine". That is a silly term frequently used within the fundie christian creationist community which displays an appalling lack of science knowledge. An appalling lack of science knowledge typically defines the fundie christian creationist community.

Oh boy no point in me responding to your ignorance.

What transcribes genetic information hollie ?

What machine components are in a biological cell?

If you don't know the makeup of the cell why did you say there were no molecular machines ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Let's be honest. The arguments you claim as yours are not yours at all. The "arguments" are videos produced by creationist ministries such as the ICR and remarkably, Harun Yahya. You do nothing more than post videos and demand others "refute" them.

It's a nonsensical tactic but one you have tried incessantly.

I did not post any videos on my main arguments they were unlike you in my own words.

Anyone can read through the thread and see that you have consistently cut and pasted videos from creationist ministries and then demanded others refute those videos.

Coming from the queen of paste.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If that were the case then the animals that need salt water and to be near the surface, like some mammals do to breathe, would not survive.



I have no problem if you want to look at it that way but if this is going to be taught in schools then this will have to be address from a logical side and not a spiritual side.



Could Antarctic penguins survive the same temperature as a desert turtle?

How do you know they would not survive ?

Same could be said for the faith required to believe that precision in nature is the result of random chance and unguided processes.



Once again I do not have a clue what animals existed at the time of Noah.

The animals that exist today -every animal, mammal, insect, rodent, fish, crustacean,.....everything must have existed at the time of Noah. Have thousands of new species evolved in just 4500 years? Maybe you know more of the Noah tale than is represented in the bible?

No, I believe in micro adaptations change within a family but your side has extrapolated from adaptations as evidence for macro evolution.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I did not post any videos on my main arguments they were unlike you in my own words.

Anyone can read through the thread and see that you have consistently cut and pasted videos from creationist ministries and then demanded others refute those videos.

The simple answer to why creationism is wrong is that it is impossible because there is no god. No one to create. Ergo it is a flawed theory.

Please point out the flaws ? I cannot scientifically prove the existence of God nor can you prove he does not exist.

Nor can you prove a natural unguided process is responsible for all things in existence.

 

[rabbitthekitten]

Anyone can read through the thread and see that you have consistently cut and pasted videos from creationist ministries and then demanded others refute those videos.

The simple answer to why creationism is wrong is that it is impossible because there is no god. No one to create. Ergo it is a flawed theory.

Please point out the flaws ? I cannot scientifically prove the existence of God nor can you prove he does not exist.

Nor can you prove a natural unguided process is responsible for all things in existence.

The evidence for god is at about of the same level as the evidence for the loch ness monster, Bigfoot and pixies. It's supernatural hocus pocus. Jesus was psychotic, he'd have been sectioned if he was alive today.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If that were the case then the animals that need salt water and to be near the surface, like some mammals do to breathe, would not survive.



I have no problem if you want to look at it that way but if this is going to be taught in schools then this will have to be address from a logical side and not a spiritual side.



Could Antarctic penguins survive the same temperature as a desert turtle?

How do you know they would not survive ?

Same could be said for the faith required to believe that precision in nature is the result of random chance and unguided processes.

Once again I do not have a clue what animals existed at the time of Noah.

What precision in nature do you see that is a function of the gods? Planetary bombardment by asteroids, cell mutation/degeneration from cosmic radiation? Did you ever hear of Shoemaker-Levy? Have you ever seen photos of Tangusta?

Really, man. You announce your creationist/flat earth ignorance like its a badge of honor.

The alignment of key planets,just the right amount of gravity, the many organs needed for living organisms,the genetic code,mans brain,the diversity of life sticking to their own kind,our atmosphere and what it actually does for this planet.

The effects of the sun and moon on this planet.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The simple answer to why creationism is wrong is that it is impossible because there is no god. No one to create. Ergo it is a flawed theory.

Please point out the flaws ? I cannot scientifically prove the existence of God nor can you prove he does not exist.

Nor can you prove a natural unguided process is responsible for all things in existence.

The evidence for god is at about of the same level as the evidence for the loch ness monster, Bigfoot and pixies. It's supernatural hocus pocus. Jesus was psychotic, he'd have been sectioned if he was alive today.

Same could be said for naturalism.

Do you believe chaos is responsible for order ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

The simple answer to why creationism is wrong is that it is impossible because there is no god. No one to create. Ergo it is a flawed theory.

Please point out the flaws ? I cannot scientifically prove the existence of God nor can you prove he does not exist.

Nor can you prove a natural unguided process is responsible for all things in existence.

The evidence for god is at about of the same level as the evidence for the loch ness monster, Bigfoot and pixies. It's supernatural hocus pocus. Jesus was psychotic, he'd have been sectioned if he was alive today.

Explain to me the benefits of mutations when they are merely copying errors ? Why are there mechanisms that correct these copying errors ? sounds like if it was naturalism or in other words evolution that was the cause for life even naturalism had to be intelligent to think of such things.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If either of you understood the precise order of amino acids in a cell you to would question the validity of an unintelligent process guiding nature.

What does language,homes,cars,telephones,and computers have in common ?

 

[Hollie]

How do you know they would not survive ?

Same could be said for the faith required to believe that precision in nature is the result of random chance and unguided processes.

Once again I do not have a clue what animals existed at the time of Noah.

What precision in nature do you see that is a function of the gods? Planetary bombardment by asteroids, cell mutation/degeneration from cosmic radiation? Did you ever hear of Shoemaker-Levy? Have you ever seen photos of Tangusta?

Really, man. You announce your creationist/flat earth ignorance like its a badge of honor.

The alignment of key planets,just the right amount of gravity, the many organs needed for living organisms,the genetic code,mans brain,the diversity of life sticking to their own kind,our atmosphere and what it actually does for this planet.

The effects of the sun and moon on this planet.

You may be interested to learn that it is the force of a planet's gravity that can cause a cosmic object to impact our own earth.

 

[Hollie]

If either of you understood the precise order of amino acids in a cell you to would question the validity of an unintelligent process guiding nature.

What does language,homes,cars,telephones,and computers have in common ?

Actually, there is nothing about amino acids that would cause a person to presume a hierarchy of gods and designers of gods.

What do superstitions, fears of the unknown and willful ignorance have in common?

 

[Youwerecreated]

What precision in nature do you see that is a function of the gods? Planetary bombardment by asteroids, cell mutation/degeneration from cosmic radiation? Did you ever hear of Shoemaker-Levy? Have you ever seen photos of Tangusta?

Really, man. You announce your creationist/flat earth ignorance like its a badge of honor.

The alignment of key planets,just the right amount of gravity, the many organs needed for living organisms,the genetic code,mans brain,the diversity of life sticking to their own kind,our atmosphere and what it actually does for this planet.

The effects of the sun and moon on this planet.

You may be interested to learn that it is the force of a planet's gravity that can cause a cosmic object to impact our own earth.

Hollie, I believe everything is suffering from entropy and that began with the fall of man into sin. While in theory we could suffer an impact but our atmoshere has done a pretty good job in protecting this planet. Where do you get the idea that this planets gravity could draw an impact ? Do you understand our atmosphere would most likely prevent it.

Still with all the entropy going on this still is the best planet for life and I will continue holding this view until it's proven otherwise. Why did you only respond

 

[Youwerecreated]

If either of you understood the precise order of amino acids in a cell you to would question the validity of an unintelligent process guiding nature.

What does language,homes,cars,telephones,and computers have in common ?

Actually, there is nothing about amino acids that would cause a person to presume a hierarchy of gods and designers of gods.

What do superstitions, fears of the unknown and willful ignorance have in common?

I have told you this before out of all the many amino acids that exist there are only certain types that combine to form proteins even though the other amino acids could combine.

Look at this complexity and learn something. Chance would have to be a miracle. So since I spent much time in my own words explaining this to you here I will give you an article to respond to.

Left-handed Proteins
Let us now examine in detail why the evolutionist scenario regarding the formation of proteins is impossible.

Even the correct sequence of the right amino acids is still not enough for the formation of a functional protein molecule. In addition to these requirements, each of the 20 different types of amino acids present in the composition of proteins must be left-handed. There are two different types of amino acids-as of all organic molecules-called "left-handed" and "right-handed." The difference between them is the mirror-symmetry between their three dimensional structures, which is similar to that of a person's right and left hands.

The same protein's left- (L) and right- (D) handed isomers. The proteins in living creatures consist only of left-handed amino acids.

Amino acids of either of these two types can easily bond with one another. But one astonishing fact that has been revealed by research is that all the proteins in plants and animals on this planet, from the simplest organism to the most complex, are made up of left-handed amino acids. If even a single right-handed amino acid gets attached to the structure of a protein, the protein is rendered useless. In a series of experiments, surprisingly, bacteria that were exposed to right-handed amino acids immediately destroyed them. In some cases, they produced usable left-handed amino acids from the fractured components.

Let us for an instant suppose that life came about by chance as evolutionists claim it did. In this case, the right- and left-handed amino acids that were generated by chance should be present in roughly equal proportions in nature. Therefore, all living things should have both right- and left-handed amino acids in their constitution, because chemically it is possible for amino acids of both types to combine with each other. However, as we know, in the real world the proteins existing in all living organisms are made up only of left-handed amino acids.

The question of how proteins can pick out only the left-handed ones from among all amino acids, and how not even a single right-handed amino acid gets involved in the life process, is a problem that still baffles evolutionists. Such a specific and conscious selection constitutes one of the greatest impasses facing the theory of evolution.

Moreover, this characteristic of proteins makes the problem facing evolutionists with respect to "chance" even worse. In order for a "meaningful" protein to be generated, it is not enough for the amino acids to be present in a particular number and sequence, and to be combined together in the right three-dimensional design. Additionally, all these amino acids have to be left-handed: not even one of them can be right-handed. Yet there is no natural selection mechanism which can identify that a right-handed amino acid has been added to the sequence and recognize that it must therefore be removed from the chain. This situation once more eliminates for good the possibility of coincidence and chance.

The Britannica Science Encyclopaedia, which is an outspoken defender of evolution, states that the amino acids of all living organisms on earth, and the building blocks of complex polymers such as proteins, have the same left-handed asymmetry. It adds that this is tantamount to tossing a coin a million times and always getting heads. The same encyclopaedia states that it is impossible to understand why molecules become left-handed or right-handed, and that this choice is fascinatingly related to the origin of life on earth.248

If a coin always turns up heads when tossed a million times, is it more logical to attribute that to chance, or else to accept that there is conscious intervention going on? The answer should be obvious. However, obvious though it may be, evolutionists still take refuge in coincidence, simply because they do not want to accept the existence of conscious intervention.

A situation similar to the left-handedness of amino acids also exists with respect to nucleotides, the smallest units of the nucleic acids, DNA and RNA. In contrast to proteins, in which only left-handed amino acids are chosen, in the case of the nucleic acids, the preferred forms of their nucleotide components are always right-handed. This is another fact that can never be explained by chance.

In conclusion, it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by the probabilities we have examined that the origin of life cannot be explained by chance. If we attempt to calculate the probability of an average-sized protein consisting of 400 amino acids being selected only from left-handed amino acids, we come up with a probability of 1 in 2400, or 10120. Just for a comparison, let us remember that the number of electrons in the universe is estimated at 1079, which although vast, is a much smaller number. The probability of these amino acids forming the required sequence and functional form would generate much larger numbers. If we add these probabilities to each other, and if we go on to work out the probabilities of even higher numbers and types of proteins, the calculations become inconceivable.



Darwinism Refuted.com

 

[Hollie]

If either of you understood the precise order of amino acids in a cell you to would question the validity of an unintelligent process guiding nature.

What does language,homes,cars,telephones,and computers have in common ?

Actually, there is nothing about amino acids that would cause a person to presume a hierarchy of gods and designers of gods.

What do superstitions, fears of the unknown and willful ignorance have in common?

I have told you this before out of all the many amino acids that exist there are only certain types that combine to form proteins even though the other amino acids could combine.

Look at this complexity and learn something. Chance would have to be a miracle. So since I spent much time in my own words explaining this to you here I will give you an article to respond to.

Left-handed Proteins
Let us now examine in detail why the evolutionist scenario regarding the formation of proteins is impossible.

Even the correct sequence of the right amino acids is still not enough for the formation of a functional protein molecule. In addition to these requirements, each of the 20 different types of amino acids present in the composition of proteins must be left-handed. There are two different types of amino acids-as of all organic molecules-called "left-handed" and "right-handed." The difference between them is the mirror-symmetry between their three dimensional structures, which is similar to that of a person's right and left hands.

The same protein's left- (L) and right- (D) handed isomers. The proteins in living creatures consist only of left-handed amino acids.

Amino acids of either of these two types can easily bond with one another. But one astonishing fact that has been revealed by research is that all the proteins in plants and animals on this planet, from the simplest organism to the most complex, are made up of left-handed amino acids. If even a single right-handed amino acid gets attached to the structure of a protein, the protein is rendered useless. In a series of experiments, surprisingly, bacteria that were exposed to right-handed amino acids immediately destroyed them. In some cases, they produced usable left-handed amino acids from the fractured components.

Let us for an instant suppose that life came about by chance as evolutionists claim it did. In this case, the right- and left-handed amino acids that were generated by chance should be present in roughly equal proportions in nature. Therefore, all living things should have both right- and left-handed amino acids in their constitution, because chemically it is possible for amino acids of both types to combine with each other. However, as we know, in the real world the proteins existing in all living organisms are made up only of left-handed amino acids.

The question of how proteins can pick out only the left-handed ones from among all amino acids, and how not even a single right-handed amino acid gets involved in the life process, is a problem that still baffles evolutionists. Such a specific and conscious selection constitutes one of the greatest impasses facing the theory of evolution.

Moreover, this characteristic of proteins makes the problem facing evolutionists with respect to "chance" even worse. In order for a "meaningful" protein to be generated, it is not enough for the amino acids to be present in a particular number and sequence, and to be combined together in the right three-dimensional design. Additionally, all these amino acids have to be left-handed: not even one of them can be right-handed. Yet there is no natural selection mechanism which can identify that a right-handed amino acid has been added to the sequence and recognize that it must therefore be removed from the chain. This situation once more eliminates for good the possibility of coincidence and chance.

The Britannica Science Encyclopaedia, which is an outspoken defender of evolution, states that the amino acids of all living organisms on earth, and the building blocks of complex polymers such as proteins, have the same left-handed asymmetry. It adds that this is tantamount to tossing a coin a million times and always getting heads. The same encyclopaedia states that it is impossible to understand why molecules become left-handed or right-handed, and that this choice is fascinatingly related to the origin of life on earth.248

If a coin always turns up heads when tossed a million times, is it more logical to attribute that to chance, or else to accept that there is conscious intervention going on? The answer should be obvious. However, obvious though it may be, evolutionists still take refuge in coincidence, simply because they do not want to accept the existence of conscious intervention.

A situation similar to the left-handedness of amino acids also exists with respect to nucleotides, the smallest units of the nucleic acids, DNA and RNA. In contrast to proteins, in which only left-handed amino acids are chosen, in the case of the nucleic acids, the preferred forms of their nucleotide components are always right-handed. This is another fact that can never be explained by chance.

In conclusion, it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by the probabilities we have examined that the origin of life cannot be explained by chance. If we attempt to calculate the probability of an average-sized protein consisting of 400 amino acids being selected only from left-handed amino acids, we come up with a probability of 1 in 2400, or 10120. Just for a comparison, let us remember that the number of electrons in the universe is estimated at 1079, which although vast, is a much smaller number. The probability of these amino acids forming the required sequence and functional form would generate much larger numbers. If we add these probabilities to each other, and if we go on to work out the probabilities of even higher numbers and types of proteins, the calculations become inconceivable.



Darwinism Refuted.com

Harun Yahya. Why do you waste bandwidth with this nonsense?

Please go away.

 

[daws101]

No spin just a fact, Your side made the claim whales had legs at one point in time.

it's not a claim it's fact. find actual scientific evidence and prove me wrong.

Why would I prove something wrong you can't produce ?

days later and still no proof .