Democracy at Work: A Cure for Capitalism

[TakeAStepBack]

Corporatism IS legislation coming from government.

Which only benefits those corporations.

Right, but too often corporatism is perceived as corporations influencing government - and that misses the point. Corporatism is a form of government that operates by handing out favors to special interests (which aren't necessarily incorporated businesses). That's an important distinction to make because, usually, attempts to combat corporatism target those trying to influence the system, rather than the system itself - which is a mistake.

Nail on the head. And what makes it immensely frustrating is seeing people fling around "solutions to capitalism" where there is no capitalsim. In my opinion, this is a tactic used to keep people from truly understanding who is the culprit of corporatism and how to solve it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The Founding Fathers were very anti-corporation. They knew that as in Britain that the national legislative body was rife with corporate owners and heads. They greatly influence legislation to corrupt the system. That is why there were strict rules and laws regarding corporations in the early US. After the Civil War when monopolies began to rise the GOP was supported by the rich to influence Federal legislation to change the recognition of corporations into that of an individual. That is when the federal govt. was changed from a republican-democracy to one of pluralistic representation.

And at that time frame, it was syndicalism and mercantilism created by the crown. There were no owners, there were operators. the crown owned it all. The rest of what you say is pure partisan fantasy.

Today the banks own it all.. LOL

You can thank government for that. "Democracy" as it were.

 

[shikaki]

I stated that the WRONG PATIENT has been identified.

The reason being that the OP is criticizing FASCISM not CAPITALISM.

So, as long as we have FASCISM , things will NOT be "perfect as is"

Capisce?

/

The video is currently criticizing the current configuration of capitalism. No where was fascism even mentioned. Nice try to derail the original point.

There is NO "current configuration of capitalism" whatever the **** that means. Fascism should have been mentioned.

.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Does the United States practice pure capitalism? - Curiosity

I don't see fascism mentioned there either...

 

[TakeAStepBack]

it's either capitalism, or it is something else entirely. This whole notion of "well, it's kind of capitalism-ish"...is nonsense.

 

[Vox]

what is pure capitalism?

don't mix the needed government involvment with socialism, though - that is false.

any society needs a governing body, otherwise it will fall apart, and the tasks we, the people, give to the government for that matter has nothing to do with purity of capitalism.

 

[shikaki]

And at that time frame, it was syndicalism and mercantilism created by the crown. There were no owners, there were operators. the crown owned it all. The rest of what you say is pure partisan fantasy.

Today the banks own it all.. LOL

You can thank government for that. "Democracy" as it were.

The one concentrates wealth by encouraging greed, exploitation, monopoly, and conspiracy. The other distributes wealth by enforcing the tyranny of the majority, constraining liberty, establishing rules, and forcing apart those conspiracies.

Ironically true democrats love competition since it sanitizes the economy by opening it up and pushing back against the desire of capitalists to profit at all costs. Likewise, and equally ironic, capitalists despise competition because it prevents them from reaping undue rewards, colluding, and otherwise rigging the game.
It was democratic government that gave the birth to the middle class. It inoculated the masses from the risks of living in a capitalist world: it protected them from the downside so they could enjoy at least a small part of the upside. It did this by creating ex nihilo a welter of programs and tax deductions aimed at creating an affordable middle class life untenable in a ‘winner take all’ deregulated pure capitalist world.

So democracy is the political solution to the problem of exploitation by capitalists.

Which why neither the extreme right nor the extreme left like democracy much. They pay token lip service, but behind the scenes they grumble about its invasive character. Democracy is indeed tyrannical, if, and only if, you mean tyrannical to be the enforcement of fairness.

This is precisely why the Founding Fathers got it so hopelessly wrong. They hated the prospect of majority rule. Or rule by the mob. Why? Because the mob might want something in return for all the hardship the few impose.

 

[Contumacious]

Because it doesn't work. Central planning doesn't work. Do you think our government is a good standing example of functioning "democracy"?

You have a better solution in mind?

Cut off the aid to the rich and give it to the poor.

In that case don't forget to vote for Elizabeth Warren, early and often.

.

 

[Vox]

it's either capitalism, or it is something else entirely. This whole notion of "well, it's kind of capitalism-ish"...is nonsense.

that is because it was intentionally messed up.

Definition of capitalism, socialism, feudalism and so on relies on the ECONOMIC BASE only - so capitalism is one of the ways economy functions.

the superstructure of every economic platform includes political structure, government culture, societal interactions - and those can have different mixtures and proportions

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Jeebus. Here we go. Pure nonsensical hyperbole talking jibberish.
On that note i have no more time to spend on the subject.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Today the banks own it all.. LOL

You can thank government for that. "Democracy" as it were.

The one concentrates wealth by encouraging greed, exploitation, monopoly, and conspiracy. The other distributes wealth by enforcing the tyranny of the majority, constraining liberty, establishing rules, and forcing apart those conspiracies.

Ironically true democrats love competition since it sanitizes the economy by opening it up and pushing back against the desire of capitalists to profit at all costs. Likewise, and equally ironic, capitalists despise competition because it prevents them from reaping undue rewards, colluding, and otherwise rigging the game.
It was democratic government that gave the birth to the middle class. It inoculated the masses from the risks of living in a capitalist world: it protected them from the downside so they could enjoy at least a small part of the upside. It did this by creating ex nihilo a welter of programs and tax deductions aimed at creating an affordable middle class life untenable in a ‘winner take all’ deregulated pure capitalist world.

So democracy is the political solution to the problem of exploitation by capitalists.

Pure fucking nonsense.

 

[Contumacious]

The video is currently criticizing the current configuration of capitalism. No where was fascism even mentioned. Nice try to derail the original point.

There is NO "current configuration of capitalism" whatever the **** that means. Fascism should have been mentioned.

.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Does the United States practice pure capitalism? - Curiosity

I don't see fascism mentioned there either...

Because the powers-that-be want to perpetrate a fraud.

They know that the victims of government schools graduate not knowing their ass from a hole in the ground.

.

 

[Vox]

You can thank government for that. "Democracy" as it were.

The one concentrates wealth by encouraging greed, exploitation, monopoly, and conspiracy. The other distributes wealth by enforcing the tyranny of the majority, constraining liberty, establishing rules, and forcing apart those conspiracies.

Ironically true democrats love competition since it sanitizes the economy by opening it up and pushing back against the desire of capitalists to profit at all costs. Likewise, and equally ironic, capitalists despise competition because it prevents them from reaping undue rewards, colluding, and otherwise rigging the game.
It was democratic government that gave the birth to the middle class. It inoculated the masses from the risks of living in a capitalist world: it protected them from the downside so they could enjoy at least a small part of the upside. It did this by creating ex nihilo a welter of programs and tax deductions aimed at creating an affordable middle class life untenable in a ‘winner take all’ deregulated pure capitalist world.

So democracy is the political solution to the problem of exploitation by capitalists.

Pure fucking nonsense.

that is straight from the marxist text book. plus some of the new idiotic inventions - because it was the capitalist system which gave the birth to middle class, not the democratic government

 

[shikaki]

You can thank government for that. "Democracy" as it were.

The one concentrates wealth by encouraging greed, exploitation, monopoly, and conspiracy. The other distributes wealth by enforcing the tyranny of the majority, constraining liberty, establishing rules, and forcing apart those conspiracies.

Ironically true democrats love competition since it sanitizes the economy by opening it up and pushing back against the desire of capitalists to profit at all costs. Likewise, and equally ironic, capitalists despise competition because it prevents them from reaping undue rewards, colluding, and otherwise rigging the game.
It was democratic government that gave the birth to the middle class. It inoculated the masses from the risks of living in a capitalist world: it protected them from the downside so they could enjoy at least a small part of the upside. It did this by creating ex nihilo a welter of programs and tax deductions aimed at creating an affordable middle class life untenable in a ‘winner take all’ deregulated pure capitalist world.

So democracy is the political solution to the problem of exploitation by capitalists.

Pure ****ing nonsense.

It works if it works for you...But honestly you can't be the only person in the world that has it right? I read from your responses that only you are the enlightened and everyone else is, well stupid...Even the validated high IQ buffs around the world are willing to discuss issues...

 

[Contumacious]

But corporatism influences legislation coming from the govt.

Corporatism IS legislation coming from government.

Which only benefits those corporations.

Corporatism is a form of welfare (fascism) to support businesses.

.

 

[shikaki]

the one concentrates wealth by encouraging greed, exploitation, monopoly, and conspiracy. The other distributes wealth by enforcing the tyranny of the majority, constraining liberty, establishing rules, and forcing apart those conspiracies.

Ironically true democrats love competition since it sanitizes the economy by opening it up and pushing back against the desire of capitalists to profit at all costs. Likewise, and equally ironic, capitalists despise competition because it prevents them from reaping undue rewards, colluding, and otherwise rigging the game.
It was democratic government that gave the birth to the middle class. It inoculated the masses from the risks of living in a capitalist world: It protected them from the downside so they could enjoy at least a small part of the upside. It did this by creating ex nihilo a welter of programs and tax deductions aimed at creating an affordable middle class life untenable in a ‘winner take all’ deregulated pure capitalist world.

So democracy is the political solution to the problem of exploitation by capitalists.

pure ****ing nonsense.

that is straight from the marxist text book. Plus some of the new idiotic inventions - because it was the capitalist system which gave the birth to middle class, not the democratic government

lol

 

[Vox]

pure ****ing nonsense.

that is straight from the marxist text book. Plus some of the new idiotic inventions - because it was the capitalist system which gave the birth to middle class, not the democratic government

lol

you better read the basics of the ones you are being indoctrinated with, otherwise you look like an idiot.

 

[Contumacious]

No, i do not. Corporatism is the result of coercion, corruption and fraud. All of which have no bearing on capitalism at all. Capitalism requires freedom, especially freedom of the economic variety (not that much contrast can be drawn from individual and economic freedom).

The engine of capitalism is selling a better product or service as measured by some magical combination of quality, features and price. For most products and services, certainly complex ones, large corporations have a huge advantage because of economies of scale and specialization of skills within. It's a big enough advantage to counter the coercion, corruption and fraud.

Wrong again.

Coercion, corruption and fraud are typical of MONOPOLIES SANCTIONED BY THE STATE.

Standard Oil Of New Jersey provided good and inexpensive products even though at one time it had cornered 85% of the market.

.

 

[shikaki]

that is straight from the marxist text book. Plus some of the new idiotic inventions - because it was the capitalist system which gave the birth to middle class, not the democratic government

lol

you better read the basics of the ones you are being indoctrinated with, otherwise you look like an idiot.

Indeed...

 

[Richard-H]

Wow! It's apparent that no one on this message thread actually listened to or understood what Richard Wolff was advocating.

What he advocates in this video is worker owned & run businesses. Workers making management decisions as opposed to a board of directors. It's only opposes capitalism in the sense that company ownership and management decision making are by the workers.

This has been successfully done many times, but I'm sure that there are many times that it has failed.

It seems to me that this 'workers cooperative' would be undermined by typical human character flaws. Some people would work hard while others would hardly work. Some people would put a lot of work into the organizational aspects of the company, while others would dominate thru political means. Eventually it would fall apart - in most cases.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The one concentrates wealth by encouraging greed, exploitation, monopoly, and conspiracy. The other distributes wealth by enforcing the tyranny of the majority, constraining liberty, establishing rules, and forcing apart those conspiracies.

Ironically true democrats love competition since it sanitizes the economy by opening it up and pushing back against the desire of capitalists to profit at all costs. Likewise, and equally ironic, capitalists despise competition because it prevents them from reaping undue rewards, colluding, and otherwise rigging the game.
It was democratic government that gave the birth to the middle class. It inoculated the masses from the risks of living in a capitalist world: it protected them from the downside so they could enjoy at least a small part of the upside. It did this by creating ex nihilo a welter of programs and tax deductions aimed at creating an affordable middle class life untenable in a ‘winner take all’ deregulated pure capitalist world.

So democracy is the political solution to the problem of exploitation by capitalists.

Pure ****ing nonsense.

It works if it works for you...But honestly you can't be the only person in the world that has it right? I read from your responses that only you are the enlightened and everyone else is, well stupid...Even the validated high IQ buffs around the world are willing to discuss issues...

The difference is, that post above is not an issue discussion piece. What it is, is nonsensical hyperbole based on dogma that has been thoroughly vetted and found wanting.