Did ANYONE on this board see a savings from Obamacare?

[Asclepias]

Our nation? Stolen? What are you talking about?

The fact that you need ask makes my attempt to explain a waste of time.

You seem to have trouble with your language. If its hard answering 3 questions then you didnt really know what you were saying in the first place.

 

[westwall]

Did ANYONE on this board see a savings from Obamacare?

No, our premiums and deductibles have gone up significantly and are about to go up even more. But the good news is twofold: As a 57-year-old male, if I need a hysterectomy, I'm now paying for that coverage and finally, FINALLY we've seen the end of that pesky 40-hour work week.

Some people said they did see a savings. Did you just skip over their posts or are you ignoring them?

Not at all. There are indeed a few who do save....but they are only able to do it because others have to pay for it. That's the point. In legal terminology it would be classified as a Ponzi Scheme.

the key phrase is "There are indeed a few who save" That passes the requirement of the OP doesnt it?

Not really. The claim was if you were middle class you would see a drop in your insurance costs. That was a lie. The middle class as a whole has seen a marked increase in their costs.

A drop or an immediate drop? These things take time.

The claim was immediate.

 

[Asclepias]

Some people said they did see a savings. Did you just skip over their posts or are you ignoring them?

Not at all. There are indeed a few who do save....but they are only able to do it because others have to pay for it. That's the point. In legal terminology it would be classified as a Ponzi Scheme.

the key phrase is "There are indeed a few who save" That passes the requirement of the OP doesnt it?

Not really. The claim was if you were middle class you would see a drop in your insurance costs. That was a lie. The middle class as a whole has seen a marked increase in their costs.

A drop or an immediate drop? These things take time.

The claim was immediate.

link?

 

[Rambunctious]

You seem to have trouble with your language. If its hard answering 3 questions then you didnt really know what you were saying in the first place.

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears.... I also know when someone is in it for a freebie and how tempestuous that can be for lazy give me people like yourself.

 

[westwall]

Not true. I looked up that "research" and found that they considered every single bankruptcy with over (if I remember right) $5000 worth of medical bills, to be a "medical bankruptcy".

The problem is, they could have $100,000 worth of credit card bills, only one bill for $5001 worth of medical bills, and their report, it would be a "medical bankruptcy". No one files bankruptcy on $5,000 dollars. The cost of actually filing the bankruptcy would be almost that much. The national average total cost of filing Chapter 7 is $3,000. Really? You are going to file bankruptcy on $5,000 and pay $3,000 to do it? And chapter 13 is more expensive.

Additionally, they included bankruptcies where the loss of work due to medical problems, they also considered medical bankruptcies. In other words, if you missed 3 months of work, and had to file bankruptcy because you got cancer and couldn't work, that was a medical bankruptcy.

The problem is, if you are recovering from cancer, even if your medical treatment is covered 100%, and you paid not a single penny in medical bills.... you would still miss work. There is no health care system on the planet, where socialized Gov-care magically makes you able to avoid missing work due to an illness. People in France with cancer, still miss work.

And when you miss work, you still don't get paid.

So, your claim about the 'health care costs are the number one cause of bankruptcy'.... is utter crap. Not true.

So part of the costs don't fit your nitty-picky criteria so you think you have an excuse to toss the whole thing out. Unless, of course, it happens to you or someone you care about.

As for time off work, here's how the U.S. stacks up compared to the rest of the industrialized world:

Does where you live determine how often you call in sick?

Once again, compared to how it views its citizens, the U.S. is a third-world nation. No wonder y'all are so grumpy about taxes.

Nitty-picky? Stop being childish. The research paper, didn't determine how much debt was consumer debt and how much was actually directly related to medical bills.

That's a massive problem. If you buy a $50,000 car, and a $300,000 home, and take out $100,000 in credit card debt, take out $80,000 in student loans to earn a degree in "social work", then you earn $40,000 a year...... and then break your arm, and get a $5,000 medical bill, and you file bankruptcy.... to consider that a "medical bankruptcy" and claim medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy...... is not just wrong, and stupid.... it is intellectually dishonest, which is a nice way of saying you are a scum sucking bold faced lying ignorant fool.

Moreover, if someone does all the same stuff above, but has 100% insurance, and pays ZERO for breaking their arm, but misses 3 months of work and files bankruptcy, to call that a medical bankruptcy is completely bonkers. As if having a socialized system would magically make your bones mend in 25 minutes, so you wouldn't miss a day of work.....

Grow up.

And by the way, it has happened to people I care about. They did something amazing. They got back to work after they recovered, and paid their bills.

In fact, I've done it.

Moreover, out of all the countries in the world, you have a better chance of being diagnosed, treated, and cured, in the US.

View attachment 86530

Every single time they look at 5-year survival rates, we're number one. Top of the list.

So when you argue about "do you want to go bankrupt to get health care".... what you are in fact arguing is "Wouldn't it be better to have a higher chance of dying, to avoid bankruptcy?".

To answer your question: No, I'd rather go bankrupt, and live to earn the money back. No dead person, is better off because at least they didn't get a bill.... oh wait... they did get a bill. It's called funeral expenses. Or is that covered by your socialized gov-care system too?

Are you capable of any fellow feeling for the cancer patient who's just lost his job? Probably not. It's all about the numbers for you.

Of course we feel for them. The problem is you bankrupt EVERYBODY in a ridiculous quest to prevent the one. That's the point. Your emotions are wonderful but the problem is the reality of medical costs are atrocious because the insurance companies are allowed to operate mini cartels, add to that the bottom feeding lawyers who sue for every little thing and thus drive up the insurance that the doctors have to pay and the whole system is going to collapse because emotional cripples, like you, think you can alter reality with legislation.

Well, those of us with smarts said "single payer" from the beginning, but the lobbyists shouted louder, so they won. And the rest of you were whining "I don' wanna, I don' wanna, I don' WANNA!!!!!" so we got drowned out.

For now.

And single payer is shit too. It says a lot about you that you ignore the fact that Gruber, obama's boy, not the lobbyists, confided to his cronies that they had to rely on the stupidity of the American public (that would be you) to push this crap down our throats.

 

[westwall]

Not at all. There are indeed a few who do save....but they are only able to do it because others have to pay for it. That's the point. In legal terminology it would be classified as a Ponzi Scheme.

the key phrase is "There are indeed a few who save" That passes the requirement of the OP doesnt it?

Not really. The claim was if you were middle class you would see a drop in your insurance costs. That was a lie. The middle class as a whole has seen a marked increase in their costs.

A drop or an immediate drop? These things take time.

The claim was immediate.

link?

 

[Asclepias]

You seem to have trouble with your language. If its hard answering 3 questions then you didnt really know what you were saying in the first place.

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears.... I also know when someone is in it for a freebie and how tempestuous that can be for lazy give me people like yourself.

Sounds like you dont even know what you meant. No worries. When you want your questioned answered maybe you will figure out what you really want to know and ask again.

 

[Asclepias]

the key phrase is "There are indeed a few who save" That passes the requirement of the OP doesnt it?

Not really. The claim was if you were middle class you would see a drop in your insurance costs. That was a lie. The middle class as a whole has seen a marked increase in their costs.

A drop or an immediate drop? These things take time.

The claim was immediate.

link?

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

 

[westwall]

Not really. The claim was if you were middle class you would see a drop in your insurance costs. That was a lie. The middle class as a whole has seen a marked increase in their costs.

A drop or an immediate drop? These things take time.

The claim was immediate.

link?

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

 

[Asclepias]

A drop or an immediate drop? These things take time.

The claim was immediate.

link?

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I did

My 23 year old son was able to be covered on my family policy for no additional cost

Yep, I've got my 21 year old daughter on my insurance and it's very affordable. I'll keep her on my insurance until she finishes school and finds a job with good coverage.

 

[Arianrhod]

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears....

Now, if you'd said you were adept at recognizing when your attempt to education would fall on deaf ears, we might be able to get somewhere...

And single payer is shit too.

Seems to work in other countries. Apparently you think Americans aren't smart enough to make it work here.

 

[westwall]

The claim was immediate.

link?

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

Smart people didn't. We KNEW it was a lie. Trust is not a issue when you are required to purchase it.

 

[Asclepias]

link?

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

Smart people didn't. We KNEW it was a lie. Trust is not a issue when you are required to purchase it.

What was a lie? He never said immediate.You are not required to purchase it. You can take a tax penalty.

 

[westwall]

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears....

Now, if you'd said you were adept at recognizing when your attempt to education would fall on deaf ears, we might be able to get somewhere...

And single payer is shit too.

Seems to work in other countries. Apparently you think Americans aren't smart enough to make it work here.

Yes, it works so well in Canada that their politicians come to the USA for their medical procedures. Single payer is great so long as you're not truly sick. If you get a broken leg or some such, it's great. Get cancer though and you're screwed as 52,000 of them figured out so they left to get treatment so they could live.



More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds

 

[westwall]

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

Smart people didn't. We KNEW it was a lie. Trust is not a issue when you are required to purchase it.

What was a lie? He never said immediate.You are not required to purchase it. You can take a tax penalty.

Did you actually think about what you just wrote?

 

[Asclepias]

i didnt hear the word "immediate" in the entire clip.

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

Smart people didn't. We KNEW it was a lie. Trust is not a issue when you are required to purchase it.

What was a lie? He never said immediate.You are not required to purchase it. You can take a tax penalty.

Did you actually think about what you just wrote?

Yes. Did you thnk before you replied? You dont purchase insurance when you pay the penalty

 

[westwall]

Nor do you hear "it will take years to go down after we raise it IMMEDIATELY".

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

Smart people didn't. We KNEW it was a lie. Trust is not a issue when you are required to purchase it.

What was a lie? He never said immediate.You are not required to purchase it. You can take a tax penalty.

Did you actually think about what you just wrote?

Yes. Did you thnk before you replied? You dont purchase insurance when you pay the penalty

You pay a "penalty". In other words, you don't get a price break, you have to PAY for something you don't need or want;. Furthermore, even though the penalty is low now, it will go up. Eventually it will be so high that it will be cheaper to get the insurance. No where do I see a price drop though. Do you? The claim was the MAJORITY of families would see a 2500 price drop. The reality is the majority of families have seen a significant price increase.

 

[Asclepias]

i was using common sense. How can one expect the prices to magically drop when the pool of payers into the system is small? it takes time for people to build trust in the system.

Smart people didn't. We KNEW it was a lie. Trust is not a issue when you are required to purchase it.

What was a lie? He never said immediate.You are not required to purchase it. You can take a tax penalty.

Did you actually think about what you just wrote?

Yes. Did you thnk before you replied? You dont purchase insurance when you pay the penalty

You pay a "penalty". In other words, you don't get a price break, you have to PAY for something you don't need or want;. Furthermore, even though the penalty is low now, it will go up. Eventually it will be so high that it will be cheaper to get the insurance. No where do I see a price drop though. Do you? The claim was the MAJORITY of families would see a 2500 price drop. The reality is the majority of families have seen a significant price increase.

The majority of familes will see a price drop once this becomes accepted. More payees into the system will lower the costs. Come on West. I had you pegged as one of the few smart repubs.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears....

Now, if you'd said you were adept at recognizing when your attempt to education would fall on deaf ears, we might be able to get somewhere...

And single payer is shit too.

Seems to work in other countries. Apparently you think Americans aren't smart enough to make it work here.

Yes, it works so well in Canada that their politicians come to the USA for their medical procedures. Single payer is great so long as you're not truly sick. If you get a broken leg or some such, it's great. Get cancer though and you're screwed as 52,000 of them figured out so they left to get treatment so they could live.



More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds

I don't buy that.


5 Myths About Canadian Health Care - AARP