Do liberals even like this country?

[Ray From Cleveland]

hope come election time the folks that would have been hurt remember how their reps wanted it and vote the slime out of office

22 million who would have lost insurance, older Americans who would have seen their rates skyrocket, low wage workers no longer eligible for subsidies or Medicaid....that was Trumpcare

And then there are the tens of millions of conservative voters who bought the lie that Republicans would repeal Obamacare if they voted for them

The Republican plan didn't take anybody off of Medicaid.

What was Obama Care? Making health insurance for low wage likely Democrat voters affordable while making it unaffordable to middle-class voters who vote Republican. But nobody on the left cared about that.

WTF. The Republican plan slashed federal funding for medicaid.

The chickenshit POS Republicans were making the States do it.

Wow, You defend that? Chickenshit politics.

The ACA did not make premiums u affordable. That is a lie. Premiums rose at a lower rate than before the ACA.

People buying insurance as individuals saved mega bucks whether they got a subsidy or not. A family of 4 making $90K could qualify for a subsidy. According to dumbass you, those are low wage people.

I ,lob=e it when you asswipes bitch about the ACA & then show you know nothing about it.

WTF are you talking about? When did you apply for Commie Care and what did they offer you? I did. I know what they offered me. I know how much it cost. I know it was unaffordable because I don't make french fries for a living.

They told me there was only one insurance company available for me to continue seeing my doctor and going to my hospital I've been going to all of my life. They wanted over 25% of my net pay. The plan had a 7K deductible and a 7K out of pocket. No dental, no prescriptions, and a $50.00 copay for doctors visits.

In other words it didn't cover shit unless I made plans to run out in front of a moving bus. Even the worker on the phone admitted she could never afford that plan.

You keep proving how little you know about the ACA.

Commie care? Really? You are that stupid?

No one forced anyone to buy through the exchanges. You were perfectly free to buy your insurance where ever you wanted.


If that policy was 25% of your net pay, you were eligible for a subsidy.


If you could not afford a policy in the exchanges then you could not have afforded one prior to the ACA.

Before Commie Care came along, I had employer provided insurance my entire adult life, and I'm 57 years old with preexisting conditions since I was 25. But that's not the point. The point is that Commie Care was designed to give likely Democrats voters affordable insurance at the cost to Republican voters. If you make an average income, you don't get crap from those subsidies. If you don't make any kind of real money, subsidies pay for most of it. That's why they wanted over 25% of my net pay.

 

[charwin95]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

Liberals want us to give up our guns like Europe. The problem is we need our guns because of Democrats.

When I go to my convenient store at night, do I take my gun with me because I'm afraid a conservative will hold up the store, hit me over the head, and take my wallet? Of course not. Conservatives don't do things like that--Democrats do things like that.

Or when I go to my ATM to make a deposit at night. Do I take my gun because I'm afraid of a Republican wedging himself between my car and the machine forcing me to withdraw as much as I can? No, no, no. Republicans don't do things like that --Democrats do things like that.

The only safe way we could get rid of guns is if we get rid of liberals first. And since that's not possible (Lord knows we've tried) we need to have our firearms.

That's fucking bullshit Ray. How the fuck do you know the political affiliation of that person that will rob you? Are all republicans or conservative rich? High percentage of people on welfare or food stamps are whites.
You make it sound that conservative only have guns. You make it sound that conservative don't get erection.

Liberals NEVER said they will take your guns away. NEVER. All we are asking are sensible common sense law like closing the loopholes at gun shows. If you are a law abiding citizen (I hope) you can buy any gun of your choice. Nobody will stop you.
You are paranoid and poorly informed. Go get some help.

I never have gun and probably will never have gun for the rest of my life. I go to ATM at night, casinos, dance clubs, jog, stores etc etc etc.

1. Wrong. All inner-city crime areas are strongly if not entirely Democrat. There were places here and in PA that had not one Romney vote when he ran for President.

2. The only thing that stops Democrats from taking our guns is the Constitution. If not for that, guns would be illegal in the entire country with Democrats in charge. But since that can't be done, they figure out ways to make it as difficult as possible for Americans to arm themselves.

Gun owner map ricochet: Blogger publishes journalists' personal data

Democrats propose $10,000 fine for gun owners who don’t have insurance

NY Gun Confiscation - Citizens Told to Turn in Firearms

States look to tax guns, ammo

Targeted? Gun sellers’ ‘high risk’ label from feds cuts banking options, hurts business

1. That's stupid. Are all democrats living in inner city? ALL? Are all living outside inner city criminals? There are tons and tons of democrats in my neighborhood. So far I have not seen criminals.
Just because they didn't vote for Romney that doesn't mean they are all democrats.

2. That's stupid. Again democrats will not pull your dick. That is what fucking Trump told you and got stuck in your brain.
So you want criminals to get guns easier like loop holes at gun shows?
So you want to flood this country with more guns like Chicago?
So you want to buy guns like a candy at liquor store?

Your link doesn't mean a diddly shit.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The only thing that stops Democrats from taking our guns is the Constitution. If not for that, guns would be illegal in the entire country with Democrats in charge. But since that can't be done, they figure out ways to make it as difficult as possible for Americans to arm themselves.

I usually agree with you but I don't think the Left has a damn bit of respect for the Constitution. In fact, more often than not, you can find places like California pass State laws in direct conflict with the Constitution.

What stops Democrats from taking guns is PEOPLE saying "NO!" to them loud and clear.
People in Congress......people in the NRA......citizens........etc.

Trust me.....regardless of the Constitution if there weren't enough people telling the anti-gunners to go fuck themselves with a pine cone.....they would distort the wording and completely ignore the Constitution and instead implement their own version of law.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

1. That's stupid. Are all democrats living in inner city? ALL? Are all living outside inner city criminals? There are tons and tons of democrats in my neighborhood. So far I have not seen criminals.
Just because they didn't vote for Romney that doesn't mean they are all democrats.

2. That's stupid. Again democrats will not pull your dick. That is what fucking Trump told you and got stuck in your brain.
So you want criminals to get guns easier like loop holes at gun shows?
So you want to flood this country with more guns like Chicago?
So you want to buy guns like a candy at liquor store?

Your link doesn't mean a diddly shit.

To say that guns made Chicago dangerous is about as stupid a statement as I've heard.
If there were no guns how would decent people defend themselves? Chicago is a killing field NOT because of guns, but because of Democrat policies.
Believing ANYTHING else means you have your head so far up your ass you you'll never get it back out

I would rather flood the country with guns because more good guys would have them.....vs flooding the country with illegal immigrants which is what Democrats want.

Look how many people are dying due to illegal immigrants....ever heard of MS-13? Probably not.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

ok now Ray...you are saying all democrats are felons who will hurt you....c'mon you are better than that. I have white Christian business owning friends who vote democratic...they won't hurt you. The gun grabbing rhetoric is an abject lie. I own several guns....both rifles and pistols. Nobody is going to take them despite what the BRA says. I was a member for 20some years. Now I quit...kudos to me kudos to me. I don't buy all the b.s.. I hunt I shoot at the gun club 1 nite per week. It's a lie I stake my Life on it.

Democrats don't care if you have guns. What Democrats don't like is if you can use those guns to protect yourself. Because if you don't need government to protect you--you don't need Democrats.

Each party has various groups that put or keep them in power. The two largest for Democrats are government dependents and victims. Victims love Democrats and Democrats love victims.

It make sense for each party to expand their groups. That's why Democrats are always trying to make victims or government dependents out of Americans.

So if they could make it virtually impossible for you to own or buy a gun, then that would mean only the criminals and cops have the guns. If you can't protect yourself, you become a victim of crime.

When you become a victim, you join the expanding tent of victims, and as I have said, Democrats love victims.

The problems for the Democrat party is this: If they run out of government dependents and victims, the only time you would hear about the Democrat party is in history books. So the Democrats not only need to preserve those two groups, but expand them as well. And that's why Democrats try to disarm the American public.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The only thing that stops Democrats from taking our guns is the Constitution. If not for that, guns would be illegal in the entire country with Democrats in charge. But since that can't be done, they figure out ways to make it as difficult as possible for Americans to arm themselves.

I usually agree with you but I don't think the Left has a damn bit of respect for the Constitution. In fact, more often than not, you can find places like California pass State laws in direct conflict with the Constitution.

What stops Democrats from taking guns is PEOPLE saying "NO!" to them loud and clear.
People in Congress......people in the NRA......citizens........etc.

Trust me.....regardless of the Constitution if there weren't enough people telling the anti-gunners to go fuck themselves with a pine cone.....they would distort the wording and completely ignore the Constitution and instead implement their own version of law.

I agree with you only to a point.

The city of Cleveland wanted to hold gun manufacturers liable for the murders here in our city. In essence, what they would do is force gun manufacturers to not sell guns in Ohio, and in the process, attempt to put them out of business through those lawsuits.

The only reason they never pursued that goal is because of the courts. It would cost the city millions and they would lose the battle. However. If we had a liberal Supreme Court, they would allow such a suit to continue and of course, stop gun manufacturers from selling guns.

Thank God people chose Trump for President. If Hillary was in charge, guns would be just about illegal in the US in less than a decade.

 

[jasonnfree]

ok now Ray...you are saying all democrats are felons who will hurt you....c'mon you are better than that. I have white Christian business owning friends who vote democratic...they won't hurt you. The gun grabbing rhetoric is an abject lie. I own several guns....both rifles and pistols. Nobody is going to take them despite what the BRA says. I was a member for 20some years. Now I quit...kudos to me kudos to me. I don't buy all the b.s.. I hunt I shoot at the gun club 1 nite per week. It's a lie I stake my Life on it.

Democrats don't care if you have guns. What Democrats don't like is if you can use those guns to protect yourself. Because if you don't need government to protect you--you don't need Democrats.

Each party has various groups that put or keep them in power. The two largest for Democrats are government dependents and victims. Victims love Democrats and Democrats love victims.

It make sense for each party to expand their groups. That's why Democrats are always trying to make victims or government dependents out of Americans.

So if they could make it virtually impossible for you to own or buy a gun, then that would mean only the criminals and cops have the guns. If you can't protect yourself, you become a victim of crime.

When you become a victim, you join the expanding tent of victims, and as I have said, Democrats love victims.

The problems for the Democrat party is this: If they run out of government dependents and victims, the only time you would hear about the Democrat party is in history books. So the Democrats not only need to preserve those two groups, but expand them as well. And that's why Democrats try to disarm the American public.

Looks like a lot of these anti gunners haven't been to places like the bad neighborhoods of cleveland or los angeles. They say that they don't want our guns but they will take them, one law at a time. There will come a time when they will deny you having a gun for having a bad credit rating.

 

[rightwinger]

And if you have 6 kids & are supporting them without help and then get a disease and can no longer work, they should take their kids to the Children Shelter & get them adopted out. Maybe they lose their jobs? Maybe they lose their spouse?

I love it. Your ilk wants to reduce access to birth control for poor people & then bitch when they have children. Proof of how fucking stupid you people are.

Oh yeah, I'm sure all those food stamp users with four or five kids that I see all the time at the grocery store were supporting them just fine with their six figure a year job until they got a disease. Talk about stupid fucken people........

So who reduced birth control to poor people? How did they do that, send a person to every store where birth control was sold and stop the people who looked poor from going in?

Who is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood?

The very organization that has been advocating family planning for 100 years. Then you complain if someone has five kids

You don't need planned parenthood to avoid having five kids. You need to keep your legs closed is all.

The only problem with that plan is that humans like to fuck

Only lower income humans or all? Because it seems to me that lower income humans have more children than middle-class humans. Check out my other thread about 50% of babies born in this country do so on Medicaid.

Your problem is that EVERYBODY likes to fuck. Even though you have no money...you can still fuck

The rich? They have high cost doctors to make sure they only have the children they want. The poor? If you didn't pay for your birth control that week.....shit happens

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I agree with you only to a point.

The city of Cleveland wanted to hold gun manufacturers liable for the murders here in our city. In essence, what they would do is force gun manufacturers to not sell guns in Ohio, and in the process, attempt to put them out of business through those lawsuits.

The only reason they never pursued that goal is because of the courts. It would cost the city millions and they would lose the battle. However. If we had a liberal Supreme Court, they would allow such a suit to continue and of course, stop gun manufacturers from selling guns.

Thank God people chose Trump for President. If Hillary was in charge, guns would be just about illegal in the US in less than a decade.

What worries me is that Trump is a temporary reprieve.

Democrats will either assassinate him or harass him to the point he can not do anything for the nation. He is going to face relentless accusations of wrongdoing until his last day in office. I don't see it ever stopping. I think it will get even worse and they pick at events during his term and make mountains out of anything and everything they can whip up into a frenzy. Makes no difference if it is fake news or not. They are looking to Trump fatigue the nation with bad news even if it's fake news.

As far as Hillary....thank God. Hopefully she'll never come back but her control over the Democrat party is DEEP DEEP DEEP. The Clintons ARE essentially the Democrat party.

 

[danielpalos]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

Liberals want us to give up our guns like Europe. The problem is we need our guns because of Democrats.

When I go to my convenient store at night, do I take my gun with me because I'm afraid a conservative will hold up the store, hit me over the head, and take my wallet? Of course not. Conservatives don't do things like that--Democrats do things like that.

Or when I go to my ATM to make a deposit at night. Do I take my gun because I'm afraid of a Republican wedging himself between my car and the machine forcing me to withdraw as much as I can? No, no, no. Republicans don't do things like that --Democrats do things like that.

The only safe way we could get rid of guns is if we get rid of liberals first. And since that's not possible (Lord knows we've tried) we need to have our firearms.

That's fucking bullshit Ray. How the fuck do you know the political affiliation of that person that will rob you? Are all republicans or conservative rich? High percentage of people on welfare or food stamps are whites.
You make it sound that conservative only have guns. You make it sound that conservative don't get erection.

Liberals NEVER said they will take your guns away. NEVER. All we are asking are sensible common sense law like closing the loopholes at gun shows. If you are a law abiding citizen (I hope) you can buy any gun of your choice. Nobody will stop you.
You are paranoid and poorly informed. Go get some help.

I never have gun and probably will never have gun for the rest of my life. I go to ATM at night, casinos, dance clubs, jog, stores etc etc etc.

Wrong. All inner-city crime areas are strongly if not entirely Democrat. There were places here and in PA that had not one Romney vote when he ran for President.

The only thing that stops Democrats from taking our guns is the Constitution. If not for that, guns would be illegal in the entire country with Democrats in charge. But since that can't be done, they figure out ways to make it as difficult as possible for Americans to arm themselves.

Gun owner map ricochet: Blogger publishes journalists' personal data

Democrats propose $10,000 fine for gun owners who don’t have insurance

NY Gun Confiscation - Citizens Told to Turn in Firearms

States look to tax guns, ammo

Targeted? Gun sellers’ ‘high risk’ label from feds cuts banking options, hurts business

Good thing there are no federalists in Congress, or we could simply draft gun lovers first for any war.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh yeah, I'm sure all those food stamp users with four or five kids that I see all the time at the grocery store were supporting them just fine with their six figure a year job until they got a disease. Talk about stupid fucken people........

So who reduced birth control to poor people? How did they do that, send a person to every store where birth control was sold and stop the people who looked poor from going in?

Who is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood?

The very organization that has been advocating family planning for 100 years. Then you complain if someone has five kids

You don't need planned parenthood to avoid having five kids. You need to keep your legs closed is all.

The only problem with that plan is that humans like to fuck

Only lower income humans or all? Because it seems to me that lower income humans have more children than middle-class humans. Check out my other thread about 50% of babies born in this country do so on Medicaid.

Your problem is that EVERYBODY likes to fuck. Even though you have no money...you can still fuck

The rich? They have high cost doctors to make sure they only have the children they want. The poor? If you didn't pay for your birth control that week.....shit happens

Georgetown Students Go Broke to Buy Birth Control? Target Sells Pills for $9 Per Month

I think these poor people could manage to get a job at McDonald's for one day a month or collect aluminum cans for a day to afford their own birth control.

 

[jasonnfree]

I agree with you only to a point.

The city of Cleveland wanted to hold gun manufacturers liable for the murders here in our city. In essence, what they would do is force gun manufacturers to not sell guns in Ohio, and in the process, attempt to put them out of business through those lawsuits.

The only reason they never pursued that goal is because of the courts. It would cost the city millions and they would lose the battle. However. If we had a liberal Supreme Court, they would allow such a suit to continue and of course, stop gun manufacturers from selling guns.

Thank God people chose Trump for President. If Hillary was in charge, guns would be just about illegal in the US in less than a decade.

What worries me is that Trump is a temporary reprieve.

Democrats will either assassinate him or harass him to the point he can not do anything for the nation. He is going to face relentless accusations of wrongdoing until his last day in office. I don't see it ever stopping. I think it will get even worse and they pick at events during his term and make mountains out of anything and everything they can whip up into a frenzy. Makes no difference if it is fake news or not. They are looking to Trump fatigue the nation with bad news even if it's fake news.

As far as Hillary....thank God. Hopefully she'll never come back but her control over the Democrat party is DEEP DEEP DEEP. The Clintons ARE essentially the Democrat party.

However, Trump is fixing to appoint at least a couple more Supreme court judges, and they are lifetime appointments.

 

[danielpalos]

Who is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood?

The very organization that has been advocating family planning for 100 years. Then you complain if someone has five kids

You don't need planned parenthood to avoid having five kids. You need to keep your legs closed is all.

The only problem with that plan is that humans like to fuck

Only lower income humans or all? Because it seems to me that lower income humans have more children than middle-class humans. Check out my other thread about 50% of babies born in this country do so on Medicaid.

Your problem is that EVERYBODY likes to fuck. Even though you have no money...you can still fuck

The rich? They have high cost doctors to make sure they only have the children they want. The poor? If you didn't pay for your birth control that week.....shit happens

Georgetown Students Go Broke to Buy Birth Control? Target Sells Pills for $9 Per Month

I think these poor people could manage to get a job at McDonald's for one day a month or collect aluminum cans for a day to afford their own birth control.

Dear, if it were that easy, every one would do it.

Capitalism has a Natural Rate of Unemployment to ensure, that doesn't happen.

 

[initforme]

well i would never lower myself to do at mcpukes which drives up our healthcare costs but I do agree contraception is vital and should be purchased by the individual. And we need to encourage all people not to have kids.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree with you only to a point.

The city of Cleveland wanted to hold gun manufacturers liable for the murders here in our city. In essence, what they would do is force gun manufacturers to not sell guns in Ohio, and in the process, attempt to put them out of business through those lawsuits.

The only reason they never pursued that goal is because of the courts. It would cost the city millions and they would lose the battle. However. If we had a liberal Supreme Court, they would allow such a suit to continue and of course, stop gun manufacturers from selling guns.

Thank God people chose Trump for President. If Hillary was in charge, guns would be just about illegal in the US in less than a decade.

What worries me is that Trump is a temporary reprieve.

Democrats will either assassinate him or harass him to the point he can not do anything for the nation. He is going to face relentless accusations of wrongdoing until his last day in office. I don't see it ever stopping. I think it will get even worse and they pick at events during his term and make mountains out of anything and everything they can whip up into a frenzy. Makes no difference if it is fake news or not. They are looking to Trump fatigue the nation with bad news even if it's fake news.

As far as Hillary....thank God. Hopefully she'll never come back but her control over the Democrat party is DEEP DEEP DEEP. The Clintons ARE essentially the Democrat party.

What both parties do is underestimate the rage of Republican/ conservative voters. Even if they could get rid of Trump, who would be next to take the office? And even if they could get rid of Pence, the Speaker of the House takes the office of President.

Democrat voters have protests, riot, damage public and private property, stop traffic from flowing when they get mad. When we get mad, we patiently await election day and take our anger out there as we did this past election.

So if they want to piss us off even more, I say good for them. Payback is a bitch.

 

[initforme]

What scares me is the god awful dumb folk out there who believe one party will save them or dev the country. This country thrives on division and is divided in 500 times the ways it Is United. 99.99 percent are too busy to care. But they but the proven lies both parties spew.

 

[initforme]

obese or should pay higher rates for health insurance. Personal responsibility means keeping a healthy weight and avoid proven toxic fast food.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

obese or should pay higher rates for health insurance. Personal responsibility means keeping a healthy weight and avoid proven toxic fast food.

Then maybe you should move to Japan, because this is where liberals want to take us:

Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions

 

[initforme]

nope...but I eat healthy and maintain myself. Why should i pay extra for overweight people who swallow fast food? They are irresponsible....no better than welfare recipients who don't work.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'm really not sure what you're asking that for.

You know, or you should do if you have at least one eye open, that companies like Amazon, Walmart etc are getting massive tax breaks when other companies aren't. Please tell me you know this is true.

Yes, the Republicans want a flat tax. I'm not sure why you've brought this up here. Even with a flat tax, companies like Walmart, Amazon and the rest would be paying "political donations" and then getting special deals different to other companies, only they'd be paying EVEN LESS than they are now.

So what does a flat tax have to do with what we're talking about?

So, you're saying that if Walmart earns $480 billion, and a small grocery store earns $480,000, that as a percentage of this money, Walmart will be equal to the small grocery store?

If you are saying this, can you back this up?

Find Out If Your Tax Rate Is Higher Than Walmart's

"most people pay something near what the government sets as the tax rate for their income."

"The same is not always true of corporations. "

" While the United States has the highest statutory corporate tax among industrialized nations (39.1 percent), corporations have a greater number of ways to bring that tax bill down."

Corporate Tax Explorer

Pepco holdings pays -33%.

Yes, it pays MINUS THIRTY THREE PERCENT.

Are you telling me this is fair?

Pepco holdings earns $480 million in profits in 2012

It paid -$76 million in tax. Why the hell is it paying MINUS tax?

Only one year from 2008-2012 did it pay plus tax, and that was $9 million, compared to $584 million it gained from the tax people.

State tax rate -9%

Are you telling me this is the same as the guy competing with them? Come off it.

People who have businesses are allowed to write off expenses, and they all work the same. Why did I bring up the flat tax? Because your assertion is that taxes are unfair based on the business or size of business.

Does everybody get a tax break offer? No, not if it's not an investment for a city or state. If a small company wants tax breaks to move into a city, and they are only going to hire 25 or so people, it's a loss for the city and they don't need it. A city won't open up a new industrial area or create new streets for a business that isn't going to produce a lot of tax revenue for the city.

As for the standard tax write offs for myself, larger apartment buildings have more write offs than I do. If they repave their parking lot, that could cost them 70K or more. If I repave mine, probably closer to 5K. They hire people to show apartments, take applications, and forward them to the company. They have to hire lawyers to get back rent, evict people, and settle possible lawsuits against them. I don't have any of those expenses. They have in ground swimming pools, some have spas and workout rooms. I don't have any those things. So they have much more to write off than I do, and there is nothing unfair about that.

One thing is what is allowed to happen, that doesn't make it right, or fair, that doesn't mean it benefits the country, it doesn't mean it doesn't give an unfair advantage to the rich.

It just means that it is allowed, it means the rich have paid the politicians who make sure it's legal, the politicians are happy, the rich are happy.

Nope, I still don't get why you brought up flat taxes, what you said doesn't make sense.

Again, as I've written about tax breaks for large companies, it doesn't benefit the country or the local area. It merely takes jobs away from other people, and hands it to those working for less at larger companies.

You seem to be blinded by partisan politics when you think it's the same that a large company, paying less, or no tax, and paying workers less, is the same as if they're working for smaller businesses paying their taxes.....

I don't get it Ray, I don't get why you seem to think an unfair system is good for the country.

Okay, let's look at your situation.

The problem I see is that you seem to be equating this to simply, if I have one, and you have ten, I pay half, you pay 5.

This isn't the case. This isn't what we're talking about here, but you seem to be ignoring the reality. i did a whole theoretical thing about Walmart, and I bet you didn't even read it.

Look.

You have a large business and a small business. They compete together.

If the large company is paying 10% tax, and the small company is paying 25% tax, are they competing? No, the larger company is getting the advantage. If they can then have workers being paid less, then they're paying less and therefore have more profits or lower prices.

It should be the other way around. Smaller businesses are BETTER for the economy. It means the cash is spread around more evenly, rather than in the pocket of one rich person who buys another summer house.

How some companies end up paying -33% tax is beyond me. The govt is paying them to do the work someone else would do, if they could be competitive, and pay their taxes like everyone else.

If someone is paying -33%, that means other people are having to pay a lot more taxes in order to fill in what the govt is paying this company AND what the company isn't paying. -33% is like the govt losing 66% of taxes. It takes from others, if it's taking from others, then they have a competitive advantage, don't they?

This means the GOVERNMENT is GIVING them a competitive advantage, doesn't it?

No, it does not.

Let's say a small and large business open up in the same area. Both pay 35% in taxes. Both are allowed to use 240 different items they can write off. The smaller store can only write off 35 of those items, and the larger store can write off 125 of those items, therefore, the larger store pays less in taxes because they have more write-offs.

In other words there are not two sets of tax laws for the same types of companies. There is only one set of tax laws for both.

Who gets more of a write-off, Applebee's, or the guy with the hot dog stand two blocks from Applebee's?

But we're not talking write offs Ray. Come on, stick to the topic.

We're talking about governments, at whatever level, giving tax breaks to companies so they get an unfair competitive advantage.

Then show me one business where this is true. Show me where two businesses (one large and one small) have two different tax codes because of their size.

Again, what are you talking about? We're not talking about TAX CODES. Come on, I don't have the energy for pushing you back to the topic every post.