Do liberals want a parasite tax? It would seem consistent:

[Wyatt earp]

Total BS, dupe.
they've been hurt by GOP pander to the rich for 35 years. Opportunities have been slashed to cut taxes on the rich, dupe.

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

But here is really the only tax graph you need: It's total tax burden by income group. And as you'll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren't paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g

working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.



Refresh our memory why people in blue states and cities pay a higher taxes in state and local?


Uhm could it be, just possibly they vote against their wallets by voting democrat dupe?


.

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Communist countries felt every able bodied person should be out working hard to build the communist paradise or to at least contribute to society. To discourage parasites they often had a so called "parasite tax". If someone got a job in a certain time frame the tax would often be refunded as an incentive.
In our society the top 1% for example pay 44% of all income tax and often supply millions of jobs and great innovative products while the bottom 1% pay no taxes and create no jobs or products. It seems that liberals mthey've been hurt by GOP pander to the rich for 35 years. Opportunities have been slashed to cut taxes on the rich, dupe.

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

But here is really the only tax graph you need: It's total tax burden by income group. And as you'll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren't paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8gight want a parasite tax on these people to encourage them to pay their fair share??

Total BS, dupe.
they've been hurt by GOP pander to the rich for 35 years. Opportunities have been slashed to cut taxes on the rich, dupe.

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

But here is really the only tax graph you need: It's total tax burden by income group. And as you'll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren't paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g

working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.



Refresh our memory why people in blue states and cities pay a higher taxes in state and local?


Uhm could it be, just possibly they vote against their wallets by voting democrat dupe?


.

They like good services and don't like mooching off the federal gov't and other states?

IRRELEVANT to this argument, which is that the GOP has cut taxes mainly on the rich the last 35 years, due to less fed aid the states have raised THEIR taxes- which kill the NONRICH- YOU DUPES, and now we basically have a flat tax system that is pander to the rich GOP idiocy. And you are duped by GOP bs propaganda into thinking the rich pay a lot %wise. Get it, ferchrissake?

I'm more thinking why don't you jut pay for your own shit. I know it's crazy to you and why you need to take someone else's money to float your dream of anyone gets a minimum living wage. Do federal taxes in some way make local ones ok? I'm not sure what the hell you are trying to sell here. Because federal taxes aren't high enough the local government's have to get higher taxes? Since when is federal aid the go to funding mechanism for a state? Why do states deserve any federal funding? Isn't this pretty much the problem here.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Total BS, dupe.
they've been hurt by GOP pander to the rich for 35 years. Opportunities have been slashed to cut taxes on the rich, dupe.

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

But here is really the only tax graph you need: It's total tax burden by income group. And as you'll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren't paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g

working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.



Refresh our memory why people in blue states and cities pay a higher taxes in state and local?


Uhm could it be, just possibly they vote against their wallets by voting democrat dupe?


.

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

How can you claim we pay too much in taxes while at the same time claiming we aren't taxed enough.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.



Refresh our memory why people in blue states and cities pay a higher taxes in state and local?


Uhm could it be, just possibly they vote against their wallets by voting democrat dupe?


.

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

You may want to go ahead and be a partisan hack. When the other side of the partisan's are coming up with this amount of stupid it's probably a good idea to not even consider their options.

 

[francoHFW]

working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.



Refresh our memory why people in blue states and cities pay a higher taxes in state and local?


Uhm could it be, just possibly they vote against their wallets by voting democrat dupe?


.

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will fall apart unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

 

[francoHFW]

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Oh, and congrats on SC women's BB. I was also for SC men. The underdogs always.

 

[francoHFW]

working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.



Refresh our memory why people in blue states and cities pay a higher taxes in state and local?


Uhm could it be, just possibly they vote against their wallets by voting democrat dupe?


.

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

How can you claim we pay too much in taxes while at the same time claiming we aren't taxed enough.

Simple. The rich and giant corps aren't taxed enough. The nonrich are taxed too much. Thanks GOP and the dupes.

 

[francoHFW]

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

You may want to go ahead and be a partisan hack. When the other side of the partisan's are coming up with this amount of stupid it's probably a good idea to not even consider their options.

Look up brainwashed, dupe..

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

 

[sakinago]

You're stepping on his dillusion man.

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

 

[francoHFW]

DELUSION, dupe. And NO. Welre very happy in our red states, thanks- Enjoy your back water crappy education and infrastructure- unless blue states and the feds are helping your dumbasses...lol. AGAIN, ALL STATES AND NONRICH are paying too much and getting screwed by GOP pander to the greedy idiot brainwashing rich policies.

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

 

[sakinago]

The only person delusional is you.... Picture of Greenville SC after the Republicans took over the city and state from the back water democrats...

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

 

[francoHFW]

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

Nowhere else in the modern world (all socialist- democratic fair capitalism) has a flat tax system where the rich make out like bandits. Thanks New BS GOP. It's because the GOP has cut the taxes of the rich so much and cut services for the nonrich so much we're turning into a banana republic/rich a-hole utopia. And half the country has no clue. Change the channel, Fox and Rush etc etc are totally FOS.

 

[EverCurious]

Damn with those cheap smokes... Its $10/pack in Alaska (go go trying to balance that budget we voted up a mess of taxes and increases trying to stay out of the slush fund)

 

[francoHFW]

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

Bad internet? Lack of investment by the gov't. Thanks New BS GOP.

Places move right and get chaotic in a corrupt GOP WORLD DEPRESSION. Europe does fine in Nobel prizes. Look at how much money our great universities have. The rich do just GREAT here.

 

[sakinago]

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

Nowhere else in the modern world (all socialist- democratic fair capitalism) has a flat tax system where the rich make out like bandits. Thanks New BS GOP. It's because the GOP has cut the taxes of the rich so much and cut services for the nonrich so much we're turning into a banana republic/rich a-hole utopia. And half the country has no clue. Change the channel, Fox and Rush etc etc are totally FOS.

The Swiss are pretty damn close. 12% max, and the usual Swiss fellow is paying 1%. They have gotten along quite well over the past 500 years despite the rest of europe in constant flux, and usually in the crapper most of the time.

I'm the only one actually advocating for the poor here, I'm saying if you don't make more than 50,000 a year, you're not paying taxes. Average household income in America is 46,000 dollars, and that's household not individual income. Or does the precious government really need every single dime they can get from these people?

There's zero loopholes with a flat tax. You're paying that rate no matter what (over 50,000). You're no better or worse than any American. If you make 51,000, you're paying flat tax on 1,000. If you make 60,000, you pay flat tax on 10,000. If you make 118,000 (only 17% of us)
You're paying flat tax on 68,000. No ones a lesser citizen in this system. It's not a system of the needs of the many over the minority, its not a system of the few who can hire an accountant to pay drastically less...it's a system that treats everyone as the individuals they are.

Truth is, this helps over 10 times as many poor\average than it does the rich. Even the slightly above average household making 70,000 a year only paying on 20,000 in flat taxes is a giant improvement over current tax code. But in a government that has set record number for tax receipts received, and has still managed to double the debt, you still want to think in terms of helping the government over helping the poor. You really do not care about the poor, you care about the government.

 

[francoHFW]

SC is fine- and you still pay too much in taxes and fees because of GOP policy EVERYWHERE. And not enough investment in infrastructure and training education. Jeebus you're nutty.

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

Socialism works great. Too bad Europe can't bust their way out of GOP depressions with fracking like we can. And too bad all our wealth goes to the rich now...

 

[francoHFW]

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

Nowhere else in the modern world (all socialist- democratic fair capitalism) has a flat tax system where the rich make out like bandits. Thanks New BS GOP. It's because the GOP has cut the taxes of the rich so much and cut services for the nonrich so much we're turning into a banana republic/rich a-hole utopia. And half the country has no clue. Change the channel, Fox and Rush etc etc are totally FOS.

The Swiss are pretty damn close. 12% max, and the usual Swiss fellow is paying 1%. They have gotten along quite well over the past 500 years despite the rest of europe in constant flux, and usually in the crapper most of the time.

I'm the only one actually advocating for the poor here, I'm saying if you don't make more than 50,000 a year, you're not paying taxes. Average household income in America is 46,000 dollars, and that's household not individual income. Or does the precious government really need every single dime they can get from these people?

There's zero loopholes with a flat tax. You're paying that rate no matter what (over 50,000). You're no better or worse than any American. If you make 51,000, you're paying flat tax on 1,000. If you make 60,000, you pay flat tax on 10,000. If you make 118,000 (only 17% of us)
You're paying flat tax on 68,000. No ones a lesser citizen in this system. It's not a system of the needs of the many over the minority, its not a system of the few who can hire an accountant to pay drastically less...it's a system that treats everyone as the individuals they are.

Truth is, this helps over 10 times as many poor\average than it does the rich. Even the slightly above average household making 70,000 a year only paying on 20,000 in flat taxes is a giant improvement over current tax code. But in a government that has set record number for tax receipts received, and has still managed to double the debt, you still want to think in terms of helping the government over helping the poor. You really do not care about the poor, you care about the government.

Stop talking bs like a total GOP dupe. Fed income taxes are not the only tax duh. Look at the graph. EVERYONE pays taxes, and about the same %. So the rich get all the new wealth and the rest and the country GTH.

Read THIS ferchrissake.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwidgN_DkZTTAhVH8IMKHVqwDFcQFggrMAU&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

But here is really the only tax graph you need: It's total tax burden by income group. And as you'll see, every income group is paying something, and the rich aren't paying much more, as a percentage of their incomes, then the middle class.

 

[EverCurious]

We ... sort of have a flat tax, the 35% alternative or whatever, but I've never been at that spot personally. I'm paying about 28-30% if I pull anything off the market, which admittedly isn't often as I'm pretty low maintenance...

 

[sakinago]

At least my bridges are not falling down like yours



.




Nutty my butt I am not a one sided partisan hack like you.



.


.

Only because your bridges are newer than those in the rust belt. But they will unless we start taxing the rich and giant corps their fair share. Ditto investment in the middle class and the poor, dupe. You just CAN'T STOP being partisan, state vs state, can you? Keep voting for the greedy idiot rich and injustice...

Again you're running to you're strawman of keep voting for the greedy idiot rich, and injustice.

By the way our bridges are so over-engineered due to government mandates they only last 15 years. Pretty much by the time you finish working on one, there's only at tops 5 years till you have to turn around and start working on it again. That's if everything stays on schedule...which it never does. But this isn't a problem for you?

Local governments are now finding it cheaper to tear up existing roads and change back to stone. But this isn't a problem for you? Government knows all and can only do good with taxpayer money. No such thing as a spending problem, it's always a revenue problem, despite record setting tax dollars collected VS record setting exponential debt. It's still obviously a revenue problem right?

When the richest get all the new wealth and are bloated, the nonrich are going to hell, and the country is falling apart, that's injustice, dupe. No strawman.

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Yes this is a problem. This is the opposite of capitalism though. The only way the rich get all the new wealth is through a lack of competition. The only way they stamp out competition is with government help. (Look up why America has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world, it's not because we're following capitalist principles). Yet America still leaves Europe/and the rest of the world in the dust when it comes to Nobel prizes. Why is that? Europe has been dabbling (unsuccessfully I might add) with socialism for the past couple centuries. Now much of Europe is moving right, and not in a good way.

Where are these numbers, and while you're pulling them up, look at switzerlands numbers (country we're based off of, and the oldest government on the planet), and tell me how they compare to the rest of Europe. We have fallen far from the free market, yet we seem
to blame all our problems on the free market.

Socialism works great. Too bad Europe can't bust their way out of GOP depressions with fracking like we can. And too bad all our wealth goes to the rich now...

Oh I see, GOP fracking on one continent, excuses economic policy in another.

And you still want the government to take taxes from the poor, but talk about how bad the rich are...that's about as fake as it gets. You actually don't care about the poor, you want the government to care about the poor in your place, and blame the rich for how many poor are still out there...How about we stop fucking taxing them. Anybody not making 50,000, you're not getting taxed...sounds pretty damn good to me. That more than the average median of America.

No no, you're right, let's keep taxing folks making 30,000 grand a year. That's how we'll stick it to the rich.

 

[francoHFW]

We ... sort of have a flat tax, the 35% alternative or whatever, but I've never been at that spot personally. I'm paying about 28-30% if I pull anything off the market, which admittedly isn't often as I'm pretty low maintenance...

Look at the graph. Add all taxes- we have a flat tax. With all new wealth going to the richest. That's why the rich love a flat tax.