Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[theHawk]

The mortal man will be heralding Gd’s power to do that. He himself will have no power.

Why must you continue to demonize Jews because they don’t believe what Christians do? I’d prefer you just mind your own business.

Obviously the power comes from God. That is why Jesus said, “The Father and I are one”.

 

[surada]

Wrong. This is the Judaism 2.0 version of what they think the messiah will be.

The actual Hebrew Bible predicts the messiah will be:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
Will heal the blind, deaf, lame (Isaiah 35:5)
Will be given sovereign power and authority, every nation will serve him. Kingdom will have no end (Daniel 7:13)
Will bring an end to sin (Dan 9:24)
Will defeat death (Job 19:23-27)
He will be silent before his accusers (Psalm 38:12-13)
Will establish a New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34)

Daniel was written very late about 164 BC. ..and was mostly concerned with Antiochus. And the desecration of the temple..the first abomination of desolation.

 

[surada]

Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Dagosa]

Romans/Italians called the shots

They made the laws, held the trials, executed the sentence

Crucifixion was a Roman punishment ……not Jewish

Exactly. crucifixion was reserved for serious crimes against Romans, not Jews. If the Jews believed “ they” killed Christ, he would have been stoned.

 

[rosends]

Wrong. This is the Judaism 2.0 version of what they think the messiah will be.

The actual Hebrew Bible predicts the messiah will be:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
Will heal the blind, deaf, lame (Isaiah 35:5)
Will be given sovereign power and authority, every nation will serve him. Kingdom will have no end (Daniel 7:13)
Will bring an end to sin (Dan 9:24)
Will defeat death (Job 19:23-27)
He will be silent before his accusers (Psalm 38:12-13)
Will establish a New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34)

Actually, those are Christian ideas of the Messiah's actions.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

He must build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28)
-He must gather all the Jews back to the Land of Israel (Is. 43:5-6)
- He must usher in an era of world peace and bring an end to hatred, oppression, suffering and disease (Is. 2:4)
- He must spread the knowledge of the G-d of Israel, uniting the entire world as one (Zechariah 14:9)

 

[irosie91]

Is Daniel 9:24 about Jesus?

nope

 

[surada]

nope

.
Do Jews have the book of Daniel in their literature?

 

[theHawk]

Actually, those are Christian ideas of the Messiah's actions.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

He must build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28)
-He must gather all the Jews back to the Land of Israel (Is. 43:5-6)
- He must usher in an era of world peace and bring an end to hatred, oppression, suffering and disease (Is. 2:4)
- He must spread the knowledge of the G-d of Israel, uniting the entire world as one (Zechariah 14:9)

He did build the third temple, the Church and his body through the New Covenant.
He will end all suffering and disease with the final judgement and establishment of heaven on earth.

No “warrior king” or political leader is going to accomplish these things.

 

[theHawk]

nope

So it’s about a “warrior king” who will end sin in the world?

 

[theHawk]

.
Do Jews have the book of Daniel in their literature?

They do. They just have to ignore certain passages or make believe they say something entirely different.

 

[Meriweather]

No, the NT lied about the Jews - and antisemites use it as “proof” about how awful Jews are.

In the meantime, it has been Christians who have persecuted, expelled, and murdered Jews by the millions - all thanks to some writings that blamed all Jews, for all time, for the death of ONE man.

No, the New Testament did not lie. On the other hand, the New Testament has been used in later times to excuse actions whether those actions were evil or simply petty. We can see the same story playing out today in America between those who write about Democrats and Republicans. Pick a side and the other side is seen as horrid--incapable of being right about anything.

Some Jews and some early Christians were in heated debates, each determined they had the right. Binary thinking did not originate in modern times, and the majority of the population on both sides of the issue were probably thinking as we are today, "Settle it already! If there is not a middle ground, then recognize their is enough ground to both to live side-by-side."

We sometimes forget that most of the New Testament was based on personal experiences, not the experiences of the entire populations.

 

[Meriweather]

Maybe I should start a thread about how Gd is angry that CHRISTIANS are worshipping a mortal man and will banish them all to hell if they don’t change their evil ways. See how YOU like it.

Except, Christians do not worship a mortal man. We worship the One God, whose Word, for a time, took on human nature, to teach and proclaim Good News.

 

[irosie91]

So it’s about a “warrior king” who will end sin in the world?

nope

 

[irosie91]

.
Do Jews have the book of Daniel in their literature?

yes----with CAUTION. btw----"LITERATURE" is not crystal ball and witchcraft

 

[surada]

They do. They just have to ignore certain passages or make believe they say something entirely different.

Daniel is about Antiochus , the Macabees and the defilement of the temple

 

[rosends]

.
Do Jews have the book of Daniel in their literature?

Yes, but it is not included in the section of "Prophets" as it is not a book designed as prophecy, but as "writings."

 

[irosie91]

As far as I know---the book of Daniel is considered VERY ARCANE ----and actually
is NOT USED as a "HAFTORAH" for that reason?----it cannot be considered EXPLANATORY
of a weekly Torah reading

 

[rosends]

He did build the third temple, the Church and his body through the New Covenant.
He will end all suffering and disease with the final judgement and establishment of heaven on earth.

No “warrior king” or political leader is going to accomplish these things.

The third temple is a building, not a person. And there is no notion of "second chance" in the Judaic texts. What you are speaking of is Christianity.

 

[surada]

Yes, but it is not included in the section of "Prophets" as it is not a book designed as prophecy, but as "writings."

Correct, but Christians argue that Daniel is a prophet.

 

[rosends]

As far as I know---the book of Daniel is considered VERY ARCANE ----and actually
is NOT USED as a "HAFTORAH" for that reason?----it cannot be considered EXPLANATORY
of a weekly Torah reading

IIRC no haftarah selection is from Ketuvim (writings) -- all are from the Nevi'im (prophets).