Do you WANT to believe in God?

[Iceweasel]

No. You attack Christianity because you're too scared to attack Islam. Cowardice is the worst of all traits in atheists who give Islam a pass.

If there were a group of Muslims here is let them have it.

And I don't want to import any more Muslims into this country.

I find I find it odd that a lot of the people who regularly and quite viciously lay into Christianity on this board, constantly excuse Islam. Some of them can't even bring themselves to condemn their worst excesses. It is sooooo odd.

I defend Islam because we aren't a Christian nation.

If you can't be a Muslim you can't be an atheist and I like the freedom.

I don't understand your first sentence.
As to the second, I'm only referring to critiquing Islam, not outlawing it. And why would atheists who freely criticise Christianity at every opportunity feel any need to defend Islam?

Remember when America didn't want to elect a Catholic? I didn't like that even though I'm not a catholic

Today, Americans would rather elect a pot smoking philandering politician than an atheist. See the pattern?

Someone's religion should not be a factor. It's personal.

I just heard the religious right is giving up on trying to get a religious candidate elected. They're going with trump.

Remember the religious right chose Reagan over Carter? Carter was a born again and Reagan had been divorced.

Your vision of the religious right is a cartoon, like most of your thoughts. We don't elect atheists because we are still largely a Christian nation. Reagan was a Christian btw. Atheism is represented by a very small minority and most of who isn't a Christian still believes in some kind of creator. Few are willing to embrace the 'it just happened on its' own' religion, which is primarily an anti-Christian movement anyway. Sorry about your butt hurt.

 

[Iceweasel]

People are confused.
Most Christians don't believe in God because they "need" him (well, they need him in the sense for salvation) but, people can get through life happily without him.
You will hear Preachers say otherwise, but, really, you need God to fulfill the purpose you were born to fill - living for Him (God).

If you are living for God or are a Christian for YOURSELF, to repeat a phrase, "you're doing it wrong"......

Your purpose in life is to "live for God"?

A Christian's life is supposed to be to live for God. Yes.
You are to die to self. It's all over the Bible.
You should take care of yourself, as, your body is - as a Christian - a "temple" for the Holy Spirit, but in all you say and do, it should be to the glory of God, all credit to him. If you have to be in pain or unhappy for His glory - so be it - His will comes before your WANTS and sometimes needs.

You are bouncing around from living as a pure creature in Christ and throwing in the towel as a predetermined fallen human. That's the kind of thing that happens when you try to live according to someone else's standards. Especially bronze age standards.

Everyone lives according to someone else's standards.
Either one people or many people.
We don't grow up in isolation.

Well, no man is an island for sure, so a little perspective is in order when looking at anything. The point is that the harder you try to mold yourself into predefined image the more internal strife you will suffer. If you are living in the modern world and trying to live by bronze age standards you will be very conflicted, been there, done that. And yes, I have the T shirt.

 

[Bonzi]

The point is that the harder you try to mold yourself into predefined image the more internal strife you will suffer

I don't disagree with this. It's why although I believe in God and that Jesus is the way to salvation, that, I doubt mine, because, what I have learned is that the Spirit of God indwells you and empowers you to do things you can't do by flesh alone. I do not have that power.

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't understand your first sentence.
As to the second, I'm only referring to critiquing Islam, not outlawing it. And why would atheists who freely criticise Christianity at every opportunity feel any need to defend Islam?

I can only answer for myself. I don't bother criticising Islam because it is endlessly criticised on the forum, whereas Christianity gets a pass.

Ok. I see it as the other way around. However, not bothering to criticise is different to those who actively defend 24/7 whatever aspect/issue is being debated.

I think it's more like defending because it's more interesting than joining the continuous "I hate Muslims" rant.

I don't really encounter any Muslims on a day to day basis. Christians, OTOH . . .

So I just listened to Neal degrass Tyson explain how the universe and stars and the planets and even we are made of the same 5 elements. Carbon hydrogen helium oxygen and nitrogen and how we are all connected. Everything.

And how little we know and no way we're the only life. We can see a foot in front of our faces and our Galaxy is the size of a city. I think he used the word egocentric.

He confirmed I'm not the only one who thinks life was once on Mars and Venus, and in fact bacteria from Mars may have come to earth after a meteor sent Mars rock into space. But we don't know yet.

Here was the best part. We humans are 99% just like monkeys. It's that 1% that makes all the difference. Now, imagine life on another planet that is 1% smarter/better than us. To them we're the monkeys

Tyson would know a whole bunch about egocentrism, he personifies what wrong with popular science these days. His opinion is not science. 1% of billions of things that make us human is still quite a lot, the evidence is right there that it makes a huge difference.

 

[the_human_being]

Sometimes I think faith is a gift. Sometimes I think it is just illogical.
If there is a God, I wish they would show their face. It would solve SO many world problems.. Alien or spirit, I don't give a shit. Show your face and explain things.

Well TN, God did appear. He actually appeared to His own and even then they rejected Him.

When did that happen?

When Jesus was born. He even stated that He came into His own and they rejected Him.

 

[hobelim]

Well, no man is an island for sure, so a little perspective is in order when looking at anything. The point is that the harder you try to mold yourself into predefined image the more internal strife you will suffer. If you are living in the modern world and trying to live by bronze age standards you will be very conflicted, been there, done that. And yes, I have the T shirt.

Do you think that bronze age standards have no merit? Is it possible that people living in the modern world do not even know what those standards are even though people have been reading scripture for thousands of years?

Lets face it, the internal conflict might only be a conflict because modern people have become so full of themselves that they have failed to decipher such advanced and complicated bronze age metaphors such as a talking serpent, angels and demons, and rising from the dead..


Is it possible that the authors of these bronze age stories were more ethical, dedicated to truth, and highly intelligent than anyone has ever imagined?

Is it possible that modern people are not as intelligent or advanced as they like to think they are?

If you wrote a story about a talking serpent while you were tending sheep in the bronze age to teach and warn your children about the dangers being gullible and losing your mind to some religious charlatan, what would you think of modern people who appoint themselves as experts and then teach others that a talking serpent is some invisible disembodied preternatural creature that lives in their head?

 

[Iceweasel]

Well, no man is an island for sure, so a little perspective is in order when looking at anything. The point is that the harder you try to mold yourself into predefined image the more internal strife you will suffer. If you are living in the modern world and trying to live by bronze age standards you will be very conflicted, been there, done that. And yes, I have the T shirt.

Do you think that bronze age standards have no merit? Is it possible that people living in the modern world do not even know what those standards are even though people have been reading scripture for thousands of years?

Lets face it, the internal conflict might only be a conflict because modern people have become so full of themselves that they have failed to decipher such advanced and complicated bronze age metaphors such as a talking serpent, angels and demons, and rising from the dead..


Is it possible that the authors of these bronze age stories were more ethical, dedicated to truth, and highly intelligent than anyone has ever imagined?

Is it possible that modern people are not as intelligent or advanced as they like to think they are?

If you wrote a story about a talking serpent while you were tending sheep in the bronze age to teach and warn your children about the dangers of losing your mind to some religious charlatan, what would you think of modern people who appoint themselves as experts and then teach others that a talking serpent is some invisible creature that lives in their head?

I couldn't follow you last point but Christianity came into being exactly because the bronze age OT wasn't possible to live up to. That's the whole spiel of the NT, believing takes up the slack.

There's no question morality was always a factor, but I don't agree that killing a woman for having sex out of wedlock was ever a moral thing to do just because it was written in a book. Or raping a single gal and marrying her for 50 shekels to smooth things over with dad. There are a whole bunch of laws that are bizarre, I would argue at any age.

If you need to compare the worse modern day examples with the best biblical age examples it means you aren't being even handed.

 

[defcon4]

hobelim Thank you very much!!!!! ^^^^^^ Your display of wisdom is always delightful to see....

 

[hobelim]

I couldn't follow you last point but Christianity came into being exactly because the bronze age OT wasn't possible to live up to. That's the whole spiel of the NT, believing takes up the slack.

There's no question morality was always a factor, but I don't agree that killing a woman for having sex out of wedlock was ever a moral thing to do just because it was written in a book. Or raping a single gal and marrying her for 50 shekels to smooth things over with dad. There are a whole bunch of laws that are bizarre, I would argue at any age.

If you need to compare the worse modern day examples with the best biblical age examples it means you aren't being even handed.

Thats what Jesus was talking about. It is said that when Jesus came the law became obsolete. I say the law will never be obsolete. What became obsolete was what Jesus called the traditions of men, what has become the Talmud, detailed instructions about how to understand and apply the literal letter of the law.

Jesus taught the the words of the law were figurative and the subjects hidden as was the deliberate intention of Moses.

Thats why Jesus did not stone the woman for adultery. The law has nothing whatever to do with human sexuality.

Thats why Jesus said "Eat my flesh. Kosher law has nothing whatever to do with what people serve and eat for meals.

His God and our God is not a God obsessed with diet and fashion and peoples sexual preferences.

 

[sealybobo]

If there were a group of Muslims here is let them have it.

And I don't want to import any more Muslims into this country.

I find I find it odd that a lot of the people who regularly and quite viciously lay into Christianity on this board, constantly excuse Islam. Some of them can't even bring themselves to condemn their worst excesses. It is sooooo odd.

I defend Islam because we aren't a Christian nation.

If you can't be a Muslim you can't be an atheist and I like the freedom.

I don't understand your first sentence.
As to the second, I'm only referring to critiquing Islam, not outlawing it. And why would atheists who freely criticise Christianity at every opportunity feel any need to defend Islam?

Remember when America didn't want to elect a Catholic? I didn't like that even though I'm not a catholic

Today, Americans would rather elect a pot smoking philandering politician than an atheist. See the pattern?

Someone's religion should not be a factor. It's personal.

I just heard the religious right is giving up on trying to get a religious candidate elected. They're going with trump.

Remember the religious right chose Reagan over Carter? Carter was a born again and Reagan had been divorced.

Your vision of the religious right is a cartoon, like most of your thoughts. We don't elect atheists because we are still largely a Christian nation. Reagan was a Christian btw. Atheism is represented by a very small minority and most of who isn't a Christian still believes in some kind of creator. Few are willing to embrace the 'it just happened on its' own' religion, which is primarily an anti-Christian movement anyway. Sorry about your butt hurt.

Clearly you see the difference between a Christian like Reagan and Carter? Carter was way more a Christian. Reagan like Trump just said he was. And so what? What does that mean? Fact is no Christian like Cruz is getting into the white house.

‘Two Corinthians’: Trump Stumbles Over Bible Reference, But Still Wins Over Evangelical Crowd at Liberty University

 

[sealybobo]

I can only answer for myself. I don't bother criticising Islam because it is endlessly criticised on the forum, whereas Christianity gets a pass.

Ok. I see it as the other way around. However, not bothering to criticise is different to those who actively defend 24/7 whatever aspect/issue is being debated.

I think it's more like defending because it's more interesting than joining the continuous "I hate Muslims" rant.

I don't really encounter any Muslims on a day to day basis. Christians, OTOH . . .

So I just listened to Neal degrass Tyson explain how the universe and stars and the planets and even we are made of the same 5 elements. Carbon hydrogen helium oxygen and nitrogen and how we are all connected. Everything.

And how little we know and no way we're the only life. We can see a foot in front of our faces and our Galaxy is the size of a city. I think he used the word egocentric.

He confirmed I'm not the only one who thinks life was once on Mars and Venus, and in fact bacteria from Mars may have come to earth after a meteor sent Mars rock into space. But we don't know yet.

Here was the best part. We humans are 99% just like monkeys. It's that 1% that makes all the difference. Now, imagine life on another planet that is 1% smarter/better than us. To them we're the monkeys

Tyson would know a whole bunch about egocentrism, he personifies what wrong with popular science these days. His opinion is not science. 1% of billions of things that make us human is still quite a lot, the evidence is right there that it makes a huge difference.

Watch this and hopefully realize the error of your ways.

 

[Iceweasel]

I find I find it odd that a lot of the people who regularly and quite viciously lay into Christianity on this board, constantly excuse Islam. Some of them can't even bring themselves to condemn their worst excesses. It is sooooo odd.

I defend Islam because we aren't a Christian nation.

If you can't be a Muslim you can't be an atheist and I like the freedom.

I don't understand your first sentence.
As to the second, I'm only referring to critiquing Islam, not outlawing it. And why would atheists who freely criticise Christianity at every opportunity feel any need to defend Islam?

Remember when America didn't want to elect a Catholic? I didn't like that even though I'm not a catholic

Today, Americans would rather elect a pot smoking philandering politician than an atheist. See the pattern?

Someone's religion should not be a factor. It's personal.

I just heard the religious right is giving up on trying to get a religious candidate elected. They're going with trump.

Remember the religious right chose Reagan over Carter? Carter was a born again and Reagan had been divorced.

Your vision of the religious right is a cartoon, like most of your thoughts. We don't elect atheists because we are still largely a Christian nation. Reagan was a Christian btw. Atheism is represented by a very small minority and most of who isn't a Christian still believes in some kind of creator. Few are willing to embrace the 'it just happened on its' own' religion, which is primarily an anti-Christian movement anyway. Sorry about your butt hurt.

Clearly you see the difference between a Christian like Reagan and Carter? Carter was way more a Christian. Reagan like Trump just said he was. And so what? What does that mean? Fact is no Christian like Cruz is getting into the white house.

‘Two Corinthians’: Trump Stumbles Over Bible Reference, But Still Wins Over Evangelical Crowd at Liberty University

You spiraled off into irrelevance.

 

[ChrisL]

I really think much of this is due to brainwashing. Most people have had religion and "sin" and all that stuff drilled into their brains since the time they were toddlers at least. Also, the FEAR of God (s) plays a huge role, as well as the comfort of an "afterlife", etc. Very frightening to face the reality of the situation.

 

[Iceweasel]

I couldn't follow you last point but Christianity came into being exactly because the bronze age OT wasn't possible to live up to. That's the whole spiel of the NT, believing takes up the slack.

There's no question morality was always a factor, but I don't agree that killing a woman for having sex out of wedlock was ever a moral thing to do just because it was written in a book. Or raping a single gal and marrying her for 50 shekels to smooth things over with dad. There are a whole bunch of laws that are bizarre, I would argue at any age.

If you need to compare the worse modern day examples with the best biblical age examples it means you aren't being even handed.

Thats what Jesus was talking about. It is said that when Jesus came the law became obsolete. I say the law will never be obsolete. What became obsolete was what Jesus called the traditions of men, what has become the Talmud, detailed instructions about how to understand and apply the literal letter of the law.

Jesus taught the the words of the law were figurative and the subjects hidden as was the deliberate intention of Moses.

Thats why Jesus did not stone the woman for adultery. The law has nothing whatever to do with human sexuality.

Thats why Jesus said "Eat my flesh. Kosher law has nothing whatever to do with what people serve and eat for meals.

His God and our God is not a God obsessed with diet and fashion and peoples sexual preferences.

I was a Christian for over 20 years, I know the spiel. For some reason Christians think if they simply repeat things enough it will become fact in other people's heads. But chanting your beliefs doesn't mean the stories didn't come from long ago. If you need them to be a moral person then have at it.

 

[Iceweasel]

Ok. I see it as the other way around. However, not bothering to criticise is different to those who actively defend 24/7 whatever aspect/issue is being debated.

I think it's more like defending because it's more interesting than joining the continuous "I hate Muslims" rant.

I don't really encounter any Muslims on a day to day basis. Christians, OTOH . . .

So I just listened to Neal degrass Tyson explain how the universe and stars and the planets and even we are made of the same 5 elements. Carbon hydrogen helium oxygen and nitrogen and how we are all connected. Everything.

And how little we know and no way we're the only life. We can see a foot in front of our faces and our Galaxy is the size of a city. I think he used the word egocentric.

He confirmed I'm not the only one who thinks life was once on Mars and Venus, and in fact bacteria from Mars may have come to earth after a meteor sent Mars rock into space. But we don't know yet.

Here was the best part. We humans are 99% just like monkeys. It's that 1% that makes all the difference. Now, imagine life on another planet that is 1% smarter/better than us. To them we're the monkeys

Tyson would know a whole bunch about egocentrism, he personifies what wrong with popular science these days. His opinion is not science. 1% of billions of things that make us human is still quite a lot, the evidence is right there that it makes a huge difference.

Watch this and hopefully realize the error of your ways.

I'm not watching a stupid video, what's wrong with you?

 

[ChrisL]

If a person was raised completely free of exposure to any religions, and someone told them the story of the Bible and gods and such things, I can only imagine what that person would think. Gods and devils and all this "magical" fairy tale stuff.

 

[sealybobo]

I really think much of this is due to brainwashing. Most people have had religion and "sin" and all that stuff drilled into their brains since the time they were toddlers at least. Also, the FEAR of God (s) plays a huge role, as well as the comfort of an "afterlife", etc. Very frightening to face the reality of the situation.

I'm not scared. I didn't exist until I was born and I didn't suffer one bit. Just like it'll be for me after I'm dead. I just won't exist.

I'm just thankful I got the time I got. Who do I thank? My parents and all my ancestors that came before. Lucky they were horny.

 

[sealybobo]

I think it's more like defending because it's more interesting than joining the continuous "I hate Muslims" rant.

I don't really encounter any Muslims on a day to day basis. Christians, OTOH . . .

So I just listened to Neal degrass Tyson explain how the universe and stars and the planets and even we are made of the same 5 elements. Carbon hydrogen helium oxygen and nitrogen and how we are all connected. Everything.

And how little we know and no way we're the only life. We can see a foot in front of our faces and our Galaxy is the size of a city. I think he used the word egocentric.

He confirmed I'm not the only one who thinks life was once on Mars and Venus, and in fact bacteria from Mars may have come to earth after a meteor sent Mars rock into space. But we don't know yet.

Here was the best part. We humans are 99% just like monkeys. It's that 1% that makes all the difference. Now, imagine life on another planet that is 1% smarter/better than us. To them we're the monkeys

Tyson would know a whole bunch about egocentrism, he personifies what wrong with popular science these days. His opinion is not science. 1% of billions of things that make us human is still quite a lot, the evidence is right there that it makes a huge difference.

Watch this and hopefully realize the error of your ways.

I'm not watching a stupid video, what's wrong with you?

The truth scares you.

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't really encounter any Muslims on a day to day basis. Christians, OTOH . . .

So I just listened to Neal degrass Tyson explain how the universe and stars and the planets and even we are made of the same 5 elements. Carbon hydrogen helium oxygen and nitrogen and how we are all connected. Everything.

And how little we know and no way we're the only life. We can see a foot in front of our faces and our Galaxy is the size of a city. I think he used the word egocentric.

He confirmed I'm not the only one who thinks life was once on Mars and Venus, and in fact bacteria from Mars may have come to earth after a meteor sent Mars rock into space. But we don't know yet.

Here was the best part. We humans are 99% just like monkeys. It's that 1% that makes all the difference. Now, imagine life on another planet that is 1% smarter/better than us. To them we're the monkeys

Tyson would know a whole bunch about egocentrism, he personifies what wrong with popular science these days. His opinion is not science. 1% of billions of things that make us human is still quite a lot, the evidence is right there that it makes a huge difference.

Watch this and hopefully realize the error of your ways.

I'm not watching a stupid video, what's wrong with you?

The truth scares you.

Your bong blinds you.

 

[hobelim]

I couldn't follow you last point but Christianity came into being exactly because the bronze age OT wasn't possible to live up to. That's the whole spiel of the NT, believing takes up the slack.

There's no question morality was always a factor, but I don't agree that killing a woman for having sex out of wedlock was ever a moral thing to do just because it was written in a book. Or raping a single gal and marrying her for 50 shekels to smooth things over with dad. There are a whole bunch of laws that are bizarre, I would argue at any age.

If you need to compare the worse modern day examples with the best biblical age examples it means you aren't being even handed.

Thats what Jesus was talking about. It is said that when Jesus came the law became obsolete. I say the law will never be obsolete. What became obsolete was what Jesus called the traditions of men, what has become the Talmud, detailed instructions about how to understand and apply the literal letter of the law.

Jesus taught the the words of the law were figurative and the subjects hidden as was the deliberate intention of Moses.

Thats why Jesus did not stone the woman for adultery. The law has nothing whatever to do with human sexuality.

Thats why Jesus said "Eat my flesh. Kosher law has nothing whatever to do with what people serve and eat for meals.

His God and our God is not a God obsessed with diet and fashion and peoples sexual preferences.

I was a Christian for over 20 years, I know the spiel. For some reason Christians think if they simply repeat things enough it will become fact in other people's heads. But chanting your beliefs doesn't mean the stories didn't come from long ago. If you need them to be a moral person then have at it.

I do not consider myself a Christian and rejected official Church teaching out of hand in the very first day that I heard the spiel in the second grade.

I happened to have already learned about how to understand fairy tales and metaphors, etc., and how to find the moral of the story in the first grade.

At the time I though such people were scary crazy. Something nefarious had taken up residence where a rational mind was supposed to be...Nothing much has changed, except for now I just feel sorry for them.