Don't Blame It on the Bible

[uscitizen]

How can you blame something on a book?

 

[Gagafritz]

Oh please. Is it really that difficult to interpret the Bible? It clearly calls sex outside of marriage "fornication" and a sin. So, whether you are fornicating with the opposite sex or same sex, no difference. It spells it out as sin. Why not just accept that the Bible says what it says? If you choose to disagree with it or don't believe it, then fine. Nobody has to believe it. But to pretend it says something OTHER than what it clearly says is just a lot of baloney.

 

[Avatar4321]

He said to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"....is what he said. You, also cannot distort, interpret, and cherry pick the parts you want implemented. I don't need to do anything but pay taxes and die. I don't subscribe to your religion. I have my own beliefs. And I have my own personal relationship with the Almighty that doesn't include you. Get the goddamn log out of your own eye before attempting to adjust the toothpick in mine. Reprobate. Hypocrite. Sinner.

He said to not judge by appearances. Ripping the verse out of context doesn't help. Because we are judged by the judgment we use.

You don't have to subscribe to my religion. You just dont have the right to claim the Bible is uncllear.

BTW I cant help but notice the only one who has cast any judgment on anyone is you.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think it is interesting that the Bible doesn't mention lesbianism at all.

As for traditional marriage; Crackpot Doom Scandal: "Traditional Marriage"

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

Who the heck is afraid of gay people? How is it enlightenment to pretend people are afraid of anything?

 

[Avatar4321]

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

I know most of the information provided by your link, and I agree with the content.

Whenever men tell me that being gay is a choice, I ask them them what age they were when the were no longer attracted to men. The invariable and expected response is that they were never attracted to men. Of course, if the were never attracted to men, they were born with an attraction toward women. There heterosexual sexuality was not a matter of choice; instead, their desires were innate. If heterosexuality is innate, than it must be true that homosexuality is, too. Not everyone is born with the same preferences.

PS: I was born straight, but some of my best friends are gay. I do not judge anyone according to their sexuality. There are far more important aspects of a person's character.

False dichotemy. There is more than two choices. You can choose to engage in homosexual behavior. You can choose hetro behavior. Or you can make no choice. In which the default programming in our make up takes place.

Doesn't matter though. We all have nature tendencies we need to overcome through the Atonement. The Atonement of Christ has the power to change human nature. That's why it's so important to be born again.

There is no excuse not to yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Avatar4321]

Fudge packers engage in animalistic behavior that basically puts them in the sub human category.

So it's no wonder they don't follow the teachings of the Bible.

Because it was written for normal people.

I disagree. the scriptures were written for sinners. For a Fallen people.

It's a tool to teach us of the ultimate atoning sacrifice and how to access it so that we can be born again.

 

[Avatar4321]

How can you blame something on a book?

Good question.

 

[Avatar4321]

Oh please. Is it really that difficult to interpret the Bible? It clearly calls sex outside of marriage "fornication" and a sin. So, whether you are fornicating with the opposite sex or same sex, no difference. It spells it out as sin. Why not just accept that the Bible says what it says? If you choose to disagree with it or don't believe it, then fine. Nobody has to believe it. But to pretend it says something OTHER than what it clearly says is just a lot of baloney.

I thought it was pretty clear. But people dont like having sins pointed out because it makes them feel guilty. And rightly so. However, instead of repenting and using the atonement to align their life with the commandments of God, they choose to find way to justify why violating the commandments is good for them.

Unfortunately, as long as we are in rebellion to God and refusing to repent, we are not able to recieve the happiness and joy that could otherwise be ours.

 

[eflatminor]

...does the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Ironically it never answers that question conclusively.

Actually, it does. Leviticus makes it clear by calling it an 'abomination' more than once.

Hey, I'm a non-Christian libertarian that couldn't give two shits who you choose to sleep with. As long as you're not hurting anyone nor taking what doesn't belong to you, have at it. But you're wrong about the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality. It's CRYSTAL clear.

 

[LittleNipper]

Not specifically....but "judging" is.

You might want to reread the Bible. Because we are commanded to judge.

Actually, "no", we weren't. Who are you? A sinner, like everyone else. How then are you able to judge anyone? Judgment is reserved for God, Almighty, who shall come to judge the living and the dead. How are you in that? You might be the one who would want to reread the Bible, to get some discernment. Reprobate.

We are to use the Word of God as our rule of judgment and not OUR OWN opinions /feelings. Opinions and feeling change --- God's Word does not.

 

[poet]

You might want to reread the Bible. Because we are commanded to judge.

Actually, "no", we weren't. Who are you? A sinner, like everyone else. How then are you able to judge anyone? Judgment is reserved for God, Almighty, who shall come to judge the living and the dead. How are you in that? You might be the one who would want to reread the Bible, to get some discernment. Reprobate.

We are to use the Word of God as our rule of judgment and not OUR OWN opinions /feelings. Opinions and feeling change --- God's Word does not.

Excuse me...but you do know that the Bible was written by man, some divinely inspired, some with vague and unscrupulous agendas. I take the Bible with a grain of salt...and use common sense and discernment as my guide. Each to their own. And chill on dictating on what and how I should do. I love it how everyone has their own take on how others should practice their faith.

 

[poet]

...does the Bible really condemn homosexuality? Ironically it never answers that question conclusively.

Actually, it does. Leviticus makes it clear by calling it an 'abomination' more than once.

Hey, I'm a non-Christian libertarian that couldn't give two shits who you choose to sleep with. As long as you're not hurting anyone nor taking what doesn't belong to you, have at it. But you're wrong about the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality. It's CRYSTAL clear.

Leviticus was ritual code for "The Hebrews"....not Christians. And Paul's letters to the provinces was concerning "temple prostitution", and not outright homosexuality. He is even rumored to have been a latent homosexual and certainly a misogynist. Besides, Christ never spoke to the matter, and the buck stops with him. Must not have been that important.

 

[poet]

First of all, here are verses from the Old Testament which clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination and those who engaged in such activities were to be put to death (all verses are from the KJV):

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” (Leviticus 18:22).

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” (Leviticus 20:13).

The following verses from the New Testament also condemn homosexuality. However, Christians would argue that although the practice was condemned, homosexuals and other sinners would find forgiveness:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” (1 Corinthians 6:9).

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” (Romans 1:26-27).

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.” (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

The fact that several of the cited verses include homosexuality in the same category as other sins such as fornication and lying, sins which are common, suggest that homosexuals can find salvation just like any other sinner. As to the question regarding whether those who continue their homosexual behavior would receive salvation, that is another question; however, if those who continue to commit other sins (such as fornication and lying) after they accept Christ do not lose their salvation, it would seem illogical to deny homosexuals the same consideration. I suppose it depends on whether one believes in the doctrine of "once saved, always saved."

I checked the link provided by OP, but I was not really impressed. The author is obviously intelligent, however, I find fault with some of his conclusions. The author seems to think that the word “homosexual” in the bible either shouldn't be there (a Bible error) or it means something else (a Bible translation error):

“First, it is important to recognize that the peoples of biblical antiquity had no idea of homosexuality as identity, orientation or lifestyle. The term "homosexuality" was not even coined until the latter half of the 19th century. In fact, the first use of "homosexual" or its cognate in any biblical translation in any language did not occur until 1946 with the Revised Standard Version.

"There are only two other direct references to male-on-male sex in the Old Testament, one in Deuteronomy and one in Leviticus (interestingly, lesbianism is never mentioned in the Old Testament). The context for these Old Testament references is the Israelite's immigration into the land of Canaan, whose society already had well-established religious customs. As newcomers, there was much pressure for the outnumbered Israelites to assimilate into the Canaanite religious orbit, so laws and instructions were sacralized to prevent it."

The author then attempts to say that the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality can only be accepted literally if other provisions of the Bible calling for the death penalty are also taken literally:

“But again, if anyone chooses to accept the Bible's denunciations, even prescriptions of death for "a man lies with a male," then what about other biblical commandments that prescribe murder for disobedient children, for those who have sex during a woman's menstrual cycle? What about the commandments to stone to death adulterers (although a man could only commit adultery against the wife of another, never against his own), and the execution by stoning of women raped in the city, with the logic that if their rape was "legitimate" (shades of Rep. Todd Akins!), they would have been sure to scream loudly enough to be rescued? There is no leeway for picking and choosing. Again, either you are a biblical literalist or not.”

The author's arguments do nothing to establish whether the Bible condemns homosexuality. I have read many articles, some very scholarly, about the Bible and homosexuality. There is disagreement on this issue as there are on many other Biblical issues. My personal analysis is that the Old testament unambiguously condemned homosexuality in the strongest language imaginable. However, the New Testament, although apparently condemning the act, does not necessarily treat it as a sin worthy of the death penalty (eternal punishment).

Just my own personal opinion. I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and that is all I can say with certainty on this divisive subject.

An opinion...neither here, nor there.

Dude do you understand that is versus in the bible?

Were you going for "verses"? An remedial English course might prove helpful.

 

[poet]

Some Christian authorities - not all - claim the following verse speaks of lesbianism:

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:26, KJV).

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

Why be afraid of sick demented people?

By whose standards? Yours? LOLOLOL

 

[poet]

He said to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"....is what he said. You, also cannot distort, interpret, and cherry pick the parts you want implemented. I don't need to do anything but pay taxes and die. I don't subscribe to your religion. I have my own beliefs. And I have my own personal relationship with the Almighty that doesn't include you. Get the goddamn log out of your own eye before attempting to adjust the toothpick in mine. Reprobate. Hypocrite. Sinner.

He said to not judge by appearances. Ripping the verse out of context doesn't help. Because we are judged by the judgment we use.

You don't have to subscribe to my religion. You just dont have the right to claim the Bible is uncllear.

BTW I cant help but notice the only one who has cast any judgment on anyone is you.

Fuck you...I don't need you to discern scripture for me...I'm clearly in my right mind and there is nothing wrong with my comprehension. I said the Bible is "unclear", on many topics. That is why there is need for discernment....clearly, which you do not have.
Oh, holier than me.

 

[poet]

If You Know Anyone Who Is Afraid Of Gay People, Here's A Cartoon That Will Ease Them Back To Reality
Enlightenment.

I know most of the information provided by your link, and I agree with the content.

Whenever men tell me that being gay is a choice, I ask them them what age they were when the were no longer attracted to men. The invariable and expected response is that they were never attracted to men. Of course, if the were never attracted to men, they were born with an attraction toward women. There heterosexual sexuality was not a matter of choice; instead, their desires were innate. If heterosexuality is innate, than it must be true that homosexuality is, too. Not everyone is born with the same preferences.

PS: I was born straight, but some of my best friends are gay. I do not judge anyone according to their sexuality. There are far more important aspects of a person's character.

False dichotemy. There is more than two choices. You can choose to engage in homosexual behavior. You can choose hetro behavior. Or you can make no choice. In which the default programming in our make up takes place.

Doesn't matter though. We all have nature tendencies we need to overcome through the Atonement. The Atonement of Christ has the power to change human nature. That's why it's so important to be born again.

There is no excuse not to yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.

Sexual orientation is not "of choice", hence the reason conversion therapy does not work.
I didn't make me gay...therefore, it must have been the will of God, for me to be exactly who I am, and to accept myself as such....it's not about who you love, but "do you love".
My three years in a Episcopal Boys Choir School, celebrating mass, 6 days out of 7, assures me that I have spent more time in a church, studying liturgy, and lifting up more praises, than you'll do in a lifetime. Find you someplace to be, and be quiet.

 

[Sunni Man]

Christ never spoke to the matter, and the buck stops with him. Must not have been that important.

Incorrect fudge packer.

Jesus lists in the final book of the Bible those whom will not be allowed into Heaven, and are condemned to Hell, and are standing outside the heavenly gates.

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie"

If you look up the word translated as "dogs" in the original Greek language.

The word "dogs" means a homosexual. .......

 

[poet]

Christ never spoke to the matter, and the buck stops with him. Must not have been that important.

Incorrect fudge packer.

Jesus lists in the final book of the Bible those whom will not be allowed into Heaven, and are condemned to Hell, and are standing outside the heavenly gates.

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie"

If you look up the word translated as "dogs" in the original Greek language.

The word "dogs" means a homosexual. .......

It would take a "fudgepacker" to know a fudgepacker, fudgepacker.
There was no word for homosexual in the Ancient Greek language...and therein lies "the rub". You have no evidence for your claim...otherwise you would have produced the link.
So, dismissed.

 

[eflatminor]

There was no word for homosexual in the Ancient Greek language.

You know this how? Got a link or other evidence?

I'm skeptical to your claim, but I'm open to consider evidence.

 

[Sunni Man]

Christ never spoke to the matter, and the buck stops with him. Must not have been that important.

Incorrect fudge packer.

Jesus lists in the final book of the Bible those whom will not be allowed into Heaven, and are condemned to Hell, and are standing outside the heavenly gates.

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie"

If you look up the word translated as "dogs" in the original Greek language.

The word "dogs" means a homosexual. .......

There was no word for homosexual in the Ancient Greek language...and therein lies "the rub". You have no evidence for your claim...otherwise you would have produced the link.
So, dismissed.

You are correct.....there was No word for homosexual in their language.

So they used the common word "dogs" to describe the animalistic perversion that today is called homosexuality.