Elizabeth Warren: Time to use 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office

[Pogo]

Stop Talking About the 25th Amendment. It Won’t Work on Trump.
And it might just set off a Constitutional crisis.
Stop Talking About the 25th Amendment. It Won’t Work on Trump.

"As for Section 4, Abrams said its use was more “complicated and delicate.” It applied during such serious situations as “loss of consciousness,” “significant alterations of the president’s cognitive faculties or inability to communicate,” “serious injury to the president following an accident or attack on his person,” “terminal illness,” and “progressive, mentally disabling conditions.

The legislative debate over the amendment and the prevailing interpretations of its meanings suggest that, despite its vagueness, it doesn’t apply to someone like Trump. Trump has an extreme personality, with many negative qualities—as the Times op-ed writer notes, he is “impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.” Some might judge him to be a grandiose narcissist or even a pathological liar. But having a personality disorder or even certain forms of mental illness doesn’t necessarily render a president unfit to govern (Lincoln suffered from depression). And in fact, Trump is not “unable” to serve as president, as would be required to invoke the 25th Amendment. He is actually a high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment and now politics. He hasn’t suffered from a crippling stroke, a psychotic break or dementia. He is, we would argue, temperamentally unsuited to be president—but that is a reason to vote against him, not to resort to a never-used clause in a constitutional amendment. If cabinet officers tried to use Section 4, Trump would surely challenge them in court and in the court of public opinion—setting up a constitutional crisis that would make the Clinton impeachment and Bush v. Gore look like schoolyard spats. Trump might conceivably refuse to leave office even if ordered by the Supreme Court—at which point Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’s loyalties would really be tested."

Have no idea why this section was even in the same post, so I quoted it separately as it's unconnected to the question of what a logical argument is.

Looks like it's biased in self-delusion ---- I'm looking specifically at "He is actually a high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment and now politics." This is on its face ridiculous as Rump has excelled at nothing but narcissism, selling himself as a freak, destroying businesses and pissing people off, all of which carry examples that could bury us here all day. It not only belies the writer's obvious blind bias but it underscores the fact that both sides of this argument are subjective anyway. His most legitimate point is whether "temperament" is a valid fulcrum upon which to weigh the question. That's a valid point and should be developed as a worthy one.

 

[MisterBeale]

Stop Talking About the 25th Amendment. It Won’t Work on Trump.
And it might just set off a Constitutional crisis.
Stop Talking About the 25th Amendment. It Won’t Work on Trump.

"As for Section 4, Abrams said its use was more “complicated and delicate.” It applied during such serious situations as “loss of consciousness,” “significant alterations of the president’s cognitive faculties or inability to communicate,” “serious injury to the president following an accident or attack on his person,” “terminal illness,” and “progressive, mentally disabling conditions.

The legislative debate over the amendment and the prevailing interpretations of its meanings suggest that, despite its vagueness, it doesn’t apply to someone like Trump. Trump has an extreme personality, with many negative qualities—as the Times op-ed writer notes, he is “impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.” Some might judge him to be a grandiose narcissist or even a pathological liar. But having a personality disorder or even certain forms of mental illness doesn’t necessarily render a president unfit to govern (Lincoln suffered from depression). And in fact, Trump is not “unable” to serve as president, as would be required to invoke the 25th Amendment. He is actually a high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment and now politics. He hasn’t suffered from a crippling stroke, a psychotic break or dementia. He is, we would argue, temperamentally unsuited to be president—but that is a reason to vote against him, not to resort to a never-used clause in a constitutional amendment. If cabinet officers tried to use Section 4, Trump would surely challenge them in court and in the court of public opinion—setting up a constitutional crisis that would make the Clinton impeachment and Bush v. Gore look like schoolyard spats. Trump might conceivably refuse to leave office even if ordered by the Supreme Court—at which point Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’s loyalties would really be tested."

Have no idea why this section was even in the same post, so I quoted it separately as it's unconnected to the question of what a logical argument is.

Looks like it's biased in self-delusion ---- I'm looking specifically at "He is actually a high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment and now politics." This is on its face ridiculous as Rump has excelled at nothing but narcissism, selling himself as a freak, destroying businesses and pissing people off, all of which carry examples that could bury us here all day. It not only belies the writer's obvious blind bias but it underscores the fact that both sides of this argument are subjective anyway. His most legitimate point is whether "temperament" is a valid fulcrum upon which to weigh the question. That's a valid point and should be developed as a worthy one.

Now you are being a blind partisan oblivious to the reality.

If you deny that he has multiple properties and success in entertainment, there is no reason for us to having any further discussions.


Everyone in the nation knew the Trump brand name before he even ran, THAT, empirically, independent of your partisan leanings, is what most non-partisans would classify as "high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment."

 

[LA RAM FAN]

'Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, seizing on an explosive op-ed from an anonymous administration official, said Thursday that it's time to use constitutional powers to remove President Donald Trump office if top officials don't think he can do the job.

"If senior administration officials think the President of the United States is not able to do his job, then they should invoke the 25th Amendment," Warren told CNN. "The Constitution provides for a procedure whenever the Vice President and senior officials think the President can't do his job. It does not provide that senior officials go around the President -- take documents off his desk, write anonymous op-eds ... Everyone of these officials have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. It's time for them to do their job."'

Elizabeth Warren: Time to use 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office - CNNPolitics


Is this the beginning of a trend? Or the end of one?

My hope is DEFINITELY 'beginning'. Though I am not optimistic.

I thought you agreed with me that she should be worried more about putting those evil mass murdering criminals the bushs,clintons and Obamas behind bars where they belong FIRST before worrying about Trump?

 

[jc456]

'Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, seizing on an explosive op-ed from an anonymous administration official, said Thursday that it's time to use constitutional powers to remove President Donald Trump office if top officials don't think he can do the job.

"If senior administration officials think the President of the United States is not able to do his job, then they should invoke the 25th Amendment," Warren told CNN. "The Constitution provides for a procedure whenever the Vice President and senior officials think the President can't do his job. It does not provide that senior officials go around the President -- take documents off his desk, write anonymous op-eds ... Everyone of these officials have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. It's time for them to do their job."'

Elizabeth Warren: Time to use 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office - CNNPolitics


Is this the beginning of a trend? Or the end of one?

My hope is DEFINITELY 'beginning'. Though I am not optimistic.

I thought you agreed with me that she should be worried more about putting those evil mass murdering criminals the bushs,clintons and Obamas behind bars where they belong FIRST before worrying about Trump?

Still haven’t said for what. I’m more worried about the nut job interfering with my vote.

 

[candycorn]

Fauxahontas on war path

Squaw do-um war dance?

View attachment 215065

Oh Noez! Liawatha send smoke signal that panties wedged in heap big ass!

Maybe he doesn't get out much.

How can it be racist? She's not Native Ametican

Alternate thread title...Liz Warren goes on the warpath.

"Liz Warren Goes Off The Reservation..."

View attachment 215074

Is she an albino Indian or something?

Fauxahontas needs to do the country a favor and go play on a freeway.

I agree!
That's the point....that Fauxahontas is a pathetic joke!
Go away woman!!!!!!!!!!!!shoooooooooooooooo

Warren's fake claim of being part native American is not 'funny' or 'amusing'. Speaking AS a native American, it is racially offensive.

that's that ok?
scum

Well for people like Pocahantas any evidence will do even if its by ANOYMOUS. Who cares if its a pack of lies. She sure doesn't.
What a moron.

Well now haven't we just learned VOLUMES about several of the population here, including a mod. Not to be lost among which is the inability to deal with the topic in anything except ethnic slurs.

Y'all must be proud. Y'all have fun at the next cross burning.

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

 

[JGalt]

Well now haven't we just learned VOLUMES about several of the population here, including a mod. Not to be lost among which is the inability to deal with the topic in anything except ethnic slurs.

Y'all must be proud. Y'all have fun at the next cross burning.

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

And she still managed to lose.

 

[McRocket]

'Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, seizing on an explosive op-ed from an anonymous administration official, said Thursday that it's time to use constitutional powers to remove President Donald Trump office if top officials don't think he can do the job.

"If senior administration officials think the President of the United States is not able to do his job, then they should invoke the 25th Amendment," Warren told CNN. "The Constitution provides for a procedure whenever the Vice President and senior officials think the President can't do his job. It does not provide that senior officials go around the President -- take documents off his desk, write anonymous op-eds ... Everyone of these officials have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. It's time for them to do their job."'

Elizabeth Warren: Time to use 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office - CNNPolitics


Is this the beginning of a trend? Or the end of one?

My hope is DEFINITELY 'beginning'. Though I am not optimistic.

I thought you agreed with me that she should be worried more about putting those evil mass murdering criminals the bushs,clintons and Obamas behind bars where they belong FIRST before worrying about Trump?

Not when a man whom I truly believe is mentally-defective is Commander-In-Chief. My number one political goal - even though I am an indy - is to get him out of the White House...fast. For the good of the nation and the world.

I don't give a shit about Warren...I just want Trump gone. And if she can do it...power to her.

I will worry about everything else (politically) later.

Sadly, I don't think the ex-POTUS's you mentioned will ever be charged for their crimes (Clinton for Rwanda, GWB for Iraq/Gitmo, Obama for double-tap, drone strikes, etc.).

 

[there4eyeM]

To some reasoning, this plays right into the hands of the person supposedly attacked.

 

[McRocket]

Squaw do-um war dance?

I am no fan of Warren.

But yup...you are a typical Trumpbot. Always take the discussion as far into the gutter as you possibly think you can get away with.

LOL...I truly believe that Trumpbots are the least-educated, lowest average IQ'd and most prejudice, major voter base in at least a generation...perhaps more.
We KNOW they are generally uneducated and we KNOW that people like that generally have the lowest IQ. And we KNOW that most prejudiced people have VERY low IQ's.

Why are white, uneducated voters voting for Trump?
Average IQ of university students is around 115 IQ points - read more.
Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice

Sad, sad bunch. I pity them so.

 

[BluesLegend]

Well now haven't we just learned VOLUMES about several of the population here, including a mod. Not to be lost among which is the inability to deal with the topic in anything except ethnic slurs.

Y'all must be proud. Y'all have fun at the next cross burning.

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

Did you know HRC lost the popular vote in the other 49 states? Here let me laugh at you

 

[candycorn]

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

And she still managed to lose.

Triggered.

 

[candycorn]

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

Did you know HRC lost the popular vote in the other 49 states? Here let me laugh at you

Actually she won the popular vote in all 50 states (it was a nationwide contest). Consider yourself triggered.
This is fun.

 

[Pogo]

Stop Talking About the 25th Amendment. It Won’t Work on Trump.
And it might just set off a Constitutional crisis.
Stop Talking About the 25th Amendment. It Won’t Work on Trump.

"As for Section 4, Abrams said its use was more “complicated and delicate.” It applied during such serious situations as “loss of consciousness,” “significant alterations of the president’s cognitive faculties or inability to communicate,” “serious injury to the president following an accident or attack on his person,” “terminal illness,” and “progressive, mentally disabling conditions.

The legislative debate over the amendment and the prevailing interpretations of its meanings suggest that, despite its vagueness, it doesn’t apply to someone like Trump. Trump has an extreme personality, with many negative qualities—as the Times op-ed writer notes, he is “impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.” Some might judge him to be a grandiose narcissist or even a pathological liar. But having a personality disorder or even certain forms of mental illness doesn’t necessarily render a president unfit to govern (Lincoln suffered from depression). And in fact, Trump is not “unable” to serve as president, as would be required to invoke the 25th Amendment. He is actually a high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment and now politics. He hasn’t suffered from a crippling stroke, a psychotic break or dementia. He is, we would argue, temperamentally unsuited to be president—but that is a reason to vote against him, not to resort to a never-used clause in a constitutional amendment. If cabinet officers tried to use Section 4, Trump would surely challenge them in court and in the court of public opinion—setting up a constitutional crisis that would make the Clinton impeachment and Bush v. Gore look like schoolyard spats. Trump might conceivably refuse to leave office even if ordered by the Supreme Court—at which point Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’s loyalties would really be tested."

Have no idea why this section was even in the same post, so I quoted it separately as it's unconnected to the question of what a logical argument is.

Looks like it's biased in self-delusion ---- I'm looking specifically at "He is actually a high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment and now politics." This is on its face ridiculous as Rump has excelled at nothing but narcissism, selling himself as a freak, destroying businesses and pissing people off, all of which carry examples that could bury us here all day. It not only belies the writer's obvious blind bias but it underscores the fact that both sides of this argument are subjective anyway. His most legitimate point is whether "temperament" is a valid fulcrum upon which to weigh the question. That's a valid point and should be developed as a worthy one.

Now you are being a blind partisan oblivious to the reality.

If you deny that he has multiple properties and success in entertainment, there is no reason for us to having any further discussions.


Everyone in the nation knew the Trump brand name before he even ran, THAT, empirically, independent of your partisan leanings, is what most non-partisans would classify as "high-achieving, high-functioning person who has excelled in business, entertainment."

There is nothing Rump has done --- and I mean literally nothing --- that I would characterize as a "success". Standing still while your father hands you umpteen million dollars isn't "success". Keeping out black people and Mexican people and Muslim people isn't "success". Those are failures. Dividing and denigrating people isn't 'success" -- it's failure. Whining at literally all hours of the day and night because you can't handle life isn't "success" --- it's failure. And on and on and on. As I said we could list this shit all night, and I don't have all night.

 

[McRocket]

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

Did you know HRC lost the popular vote in the other 49 states? Here let me laugh at you

Did you know that your posts read - to me anyway - like that of someone in early high school/late grade school?

(question is rhetorical)

And I guarantee you that your reply will read the same.

Not that I will read it as I try not to waste my time on trolls like you seem to be.


Ta ta.

 

[BluesLegend]

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

Did you know HRC lost the popular vote in the other 49 states? Here let me laugh at you

Actually she won the popular vote in all 50 states (it was a nationwide contest). Consider yourself triggered.
This is fun.

No she won 4 million more votes in California, Trump won the total popular vote in the other 49 states. I love bursting the left's bubble, go have yourself a good cry.

 

[McRocket]

Well now haven't we just learned VOLUMES about several of the population here, including a mod. Not to be lost among which is the inability to deal with the topic in anything except ethnic slurs.

Y'all must be proud. Y'all have fun at the next cross burning.

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

DON"T TELL THEM THAT...they cannot handle that truth. They're brains might explode and we will have a bloodbath on our hands.

Whenever someone mentions your fact...Trumpbots tightly-clutch Trump's picture and repeat over and over....'Electoral College, Electoral College, Electoral College...'

 

[BluesLegend]

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

Did you know HRC lost the popular vote in the other 49 states? Here let me laugh at you

Did you know that your posts read - to me anyway - like that of someone in early high school/late grade school?

(question is rhetorical)

And I guarantee you that your reply will read the same.

Not that I will read it as I try not to waste my time on trolls like you seem to be.


Ta ta.

Translation, I burst your 'popular vote' bubble and you threw a hissy fit.

 

[Auld Phart]

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

DON"T TELL THEM THAT...they cannot handle that truth. They're brains might explode and we will have a bloodbath on our hands.

Whenever someone mentions your fact...Trumpbots tightly-clutch Trump's picture and repeat over and over....'Electoral College, Electoral College, Electoral College...'

Point out where someone has been elected without winning the Electoral College.

(stating facts about the legal road to the White House does not make one a 'trumpbot')

 

[Auld Phart]

Well now haven't we just learned VOLUMES about several of the population here, including a mod. Not to be lost among which is the inability to deal with the topic in anything except ethnic slurs.

Y'all must be proud. Y'all have fun at the next cross burning.

She said something patently stupid. The racial slurs that the right wing enjoy making just underscore what disgusting slobs they are.

Liawatha triggers you?
Good.
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha
Liawatha

So what are you --- four years old? Three?

Mature enough to not get the vapors because certain words trigger.

Did you know HRC got 3,000,000 more votes than your blob?

She could have beat him with 3,000,000,000 more votes.

without the necessary EV, she still would have lost

 

[skye]

LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!