Erasing Southern Pride: U.S. Army War College Removing Confederate Generals Portraits

[JakeStarkey]

It was not until early Spring 1865 that Davis said "arm those dark fellers, we whites are gettin' are asses whipped!" But it was too late. Or words something like that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Confederate Veteran, June 1915 - “If there were any such troops [black Confederates] enlisted, there is no official record of same”

a) “The whole Black Confederate soldier thing is bogus” - Ludwell Johnson of the Museum of the Confederacy

b) “It’s B.S., wishful thinking.” - Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus, NPS

c) “They were never mustered into the Confederate Army,” – James Hollandsworth, Associate Provost at the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg.

d) “It’s mostly moonshine They’ve taken a core of true information and ballooned it all out of proportion.” - James McPherson, Princeton professor emeritus and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War history Battle Cry of Freedom. -

g) “Of course If I documented 12 [black Confederates out of 150,000 CSA soldiers researched] someone would start adding zeros,” - Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy

h) Ervin Jordan Jr. - a black archivist and assistant professor from the University of Virginia. In Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia, were he proved there were black confederates, he admits that he hasn’t uncovered tens of thousands of black Confederates in wartime Virginia - in fact, he’s found barely a fraction of that.

i) “There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile, it was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side.” - Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. - Mobile Register, August 23, 1998

j) “Many thousands of Jews did slave labor in military production factories in Nazi Germany - but that certainly didn’t make them “thousands of Jewish soldiers fighting for Germany.”” Truman R. Clark, professor of history, Tomball College. - The Houston Chronicle, Aug 29, 1999

Once again I'll ask you why were captured black confederates treated as POWS and not contraband, like slaves were treated as?
If they were what the union identified them as cooks teamsters fifes drummers servants non combative. Why didn't they free them?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Confederate Veteran, June 1915 - “If there were any such troops [black Confederates] enlisted, there is no official record of same”

a) “The whole Black Confederate soldier thing is bogus” - Ludwell Johnson of the Museum of the Confederacy

b) “It’s B.S., wishful thinking.” - Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus, NPS

c) “They were never mustered into the Confederate Army,” – James Hollandsworth, Associate Provost at the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg.

d) “It’s mostly moonshine They’ve taken a core of true information and ballooned it all out of proportion.” - James McPherson, Princeton professor emeritus and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War history Battle Cry of Freedom. -

g) “Of course If I documented 12 [black Confederates out of 150,000 CSA soldiers researched] someone would start adding zeros,” - Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy

h) Ervin Jordan Jr. - a black archivist and assistant professor from the University of Virginia. In Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia, were he proved there were black confederates, he admits that he hasn’t uncovered tens of thousands of black Confederates in wartime Virginia - in fact, he’s found barely a fraction of that.

i) “There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile, it was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side.” - Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. - Mobile Register, August 23, 1998

j) “Many thousands of Jews did slave labor in military production factories in Nazi Germany - but that certainly didn’t make them “thousands of Jewish soldiers fighting for Germany.”” Truman R. Clark, professor of history, Tomball College. - The Houston Chronicle, Aug 29, 1999

Another historian like you.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Dont get stressed out and start typing in all caps. Use intellect not your emotions. You used a hacked photo to say the Louisiana Guard were Black. You got busted then tried to say the uniforms were because they didnt care which uniform they wore. You still did not get the point that the people in the photo were Union soldiers and the photo was taken in Philly and was not the Louisiana Guard. Then you posted another photo trying to prove your point and got busted again. How many times do you have to be called out before admitting you got fooled?

I didn't use a hack photo? who said it was? Someone like paperclip? And before you go stone cold stupid I did not say paperclip said it but someone like her who says they are a historian but would misinform people.

The link I provided earlier clearly proves it was a hacked photo. No wonder you seemed incredibly dense. You never read it did you?

Were you there or was the link provided by someone like paperclip that has already lied about no blacks having guns in the south. Careful about those who claim to be an historian with papers they'll lie.

 

[paperview]

Confederate Veteran, June 1915 - “If there were any such troops [black Confederates] enlisted, there is no official record of same”

a) “The whole Black Confederate soldier thing is bogus” - Ludwell Johnson of the Museum of the Confederacy

b) “It’s B.S., wishful thinking.” - Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus, NPS

c) “They were never mustered into the Confederate Army,” – James Hollandsworth, Associate Provost at the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg.

d) “It’s mostly moonshine They’ve taken a core of true information and ballooned it all out of proportion.” - James McPherson, Princeton professor emeritus and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War history Battle Cry of Freedom. -

g) “Of course If I documented 12 [black Confederates out of 150,000 CSA soldiers researched] someone would start adding zeros,” - Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy

h) Ervin Jordan Jr. - a black archivist and assistant professor from the University of Virginia. In Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia, were he proved there were black confederates, he admits that he hasn’t uncovered tens of thousands of black Confederates in wartime Virginia - in fact, he’s found barely a fraction of that.

i) “There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile, it was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side.” - Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. - Mobile Register, August 23, 1998

j) “Many thousands of Jews did slave labor in military production factories in Nazi Germany - but that certainly didn’t make them “thousands of Jewish soldiers fighting for Germany.”” Truman R. Clark, professor of history, Tomball College. - The Houston Chronicle, Aug 29, 1999

Once again I'll ask you why were captured black confederates treated as POWS and not contraband, like slaves were treated as?
If they were what the union identified them as cooks teamsters fifes drummers servants non combative. Why didn't they free them?

Was that before or after the Union started letting them fight as soldiers against the con-feds?

Bonus question: What is Lincoln's General Order No. 252

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Confederate Veteran, June 1915 - “If there were any such troops [black Confederates] enlisted, there is no official record of same”

a) “The whole Black Confederate soldier thing is bogus” - Ludwell Johnson of the Museum of the Confederacy

b) “It’s B.S., wishful thinking.” - Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus, NPS

c) “They were never mustered into the Confederate Army,” – James Hollandsworth, Associate Provost at the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg.

d) “It’s mostly moonshine They’ve taken a core of true information and ballooned it all out of proportion.” - James McPherson, Princeton professor emeritus and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War history Battle Cry of Freedom. -

g) “Of course If I documented 12 [black Confederates out of 150,000 CSA soldiers researched] someone would start adding zeros,” - Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy

h) Ervin Jordan Jr. - a black archivist and assistant professor from the University of Virginia. In Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia, were he proved there were black confederates, he admits that he hasn’t uncovered tens of thousands of black Confederates in wartime Virginia - in fact, he’s found barely a fraction of that.

i) “There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile, it was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side.” - Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. - Mobile Register, August 23, 1998

j) “Many thousands of Jews did slave labor in military production factories in Nazi Germany - but that certainly didn’t make them “thousands of Jewish soldiers fighting for Germany.”” Truman R. Clark, professor of history, Tomball College. - The Houston Chronicle, Aug 29, 1999

Once again I'll ask you why were captured black confederates treated as POWS and not contraband, like slaves were treated as?
If they were what the union identified them as cooks teamsters fifes drummers servants non combative. Why didn't they free them?

Was that before or after the Union started letting them fight as soldiers against the con-feds?

Bonus question: What is Lincoln's General Order No. 252

That's from the end of war records.

 

[paperview]

The name is paperview -- and the reason is because I deal in historical letters and documents.

Get it right.

 

[paperview]

Once again I'll ask you why were captured black confederates treated as POWS and not contraband, like slaves were treated as?
If they were what the union identified them as cooks teamsters fifes drummers servants non combative. Why didn't they free them?

Was that before or after the Union started letting them fight as soldiers against the con-feds?

Bonus question: What is Lincoln's General Order No. 252

That's from the end of war records.

Wrong-O

Dumbo.

 

[paperview]

“The President’s Order No. 252”

August 15, 1863

July 30, 1863, President Lincoln issued General Order No. 252:

"It is the duty of every Government to give protection to its citizens, of whatever class, color or condition, and especially to those who are duly organized as soldiers in the public service. The law of nations, and the usages and customs of war, as carried on by civilized powers, permit no distinction as to color in the treatment of prisoners of war as public enemies. To sell or enslave any captured person on account of his color, and for no offense against the laws of war, is a relapse into barbarism, and a crime against the civilization of the age."


"The Government of the United States will give the same protection to all its soldiers, and if the enemy shall sell or enslave any one because of his color, the offense shall be punished by retaliation upon the enemy's prisoners in our possession. It is therefore ordered, that for every soldier of the United States killed in violation of the law, a Rebel soldier shall be executed, and for every one enslaved by the enemy or sold into slavery, a Rebel soldier shall be placed at hard labor on the public works, and continued at such labor until the other shall be released and receive the treatment due to a prisoner of war."


Lincoln's retaliatory order was difficult to put into practice. After a massacre of black soldiers at Fort Pillow (April 12, 1864), the president and his military advisors decided to punish the Confederates directly responsible, should they be captured, rather than to randomly execute a corresponding number of Confederate prisoners of war. Field commanders near Richmond, Virginia, and Charleston, South Carolina carried out the Union’s only official retaliations. When Confederates forced captured black soldiers to build fortifications in the line of fire, the Union officers made an equal number of Confederate prisoners perform similar work. Thereafter, the Confederates stopped the practice.


The Confederacy’s refusal to acknowledge captured black servicemen as legitimate prisoners of war halted prisoner-of-war exchanges in the summer of 1863. By the end of the year, the Confederacy was willing to discuss returning black soldiers who upon enlistment had been legally free as the Confederacy defined it (i.e., not under the Emancipation Proclamation)

More at the link: HarpWeek: Cartoon of the Day

 

[Asclepias]

I didn't use a hack photo? who said it was? Someone like paperclip? And before you go stone cold stupid I did not say paperclip said it but someone like her who says they are a historian but would misinform people.

The link I provided earlier clearly proves it was a hacked photo. No wonder you seemed incredibly dense. You never read it did you?

Were you there or was the link provided by someone like paperclip that has already lied about no blacks having guns in the south. Careful about those who claim to be an historian with papers they'll lie.

I know. You are lying right now. I'll take a researched conclusion over someone posting a proven hacked photo everyday of the week. You have to change my mind with some evidence it was not hacked. if you cant do that then you are the one lying or was fooled.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The link I provided earlier clearly proves it was a hacked photo. No wonder you seemed incredibly dense. You never read it did you?

Were you there or was the link provided by someone like paperclip that has already lied about no blacks having guns in the south. Careful about those who claim to be an historian with papers they'll lie.

I know. You are lying right now. I'll take a researched conclusion over someone posting a proven hacked photo everyday of the week.

You call me a liar but not paperclip who has already been shown to have lied about no blacks being allowed guns in the south.
I also notice that you lied about what I said in that other pic, you knew why I posted the pic but claim I said it was for showing black confederates. Time for your lyin ass to leave now isn't it?

 

[Unkotare]

It should also be remembered that many southerners living in rebel-held territory remained loyal to the Union. Some left their native region when the war began, but others stayed and found ways to support the Union. With the exception of South Carolina, entire regiments were formed in every Confederate state to fight for the Union. In all, more than 100,000 men from southern states fought against the Confederacy during the war.

Many of these were Irish and German immigrants who had little use for slavery and less use for the arrogant, entitled plantation-owner class.

OH the Irish? If you had any concept of the Irish disdain for blacks you wouldn't have mentioned them. They hated blacks.
Look up the New York riots of 1863.

No need to look it up, thanks.

That's not what I was talking about. Any other unrelated trivia to offer so you can feel like an "historian," LARPer?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Was that before or after the Union started letting them fight as soldiers against the con-feds?

Bonus question: What is Lincoln's General Order No. 252

That's from the end of war records.

Wrong-O

Dumbo.

pension records dumb ass would be end of war records.

 

[paperview]

More on the matter, for those that are interested:

Black Union soldiers faced harsh consequences when captured as POWs, with Confederate policy initially holding that they could be tried as criminal insurrectionists in state courts, and executed as such. The Confederate Congress also threatened to enslave black POWs—even those who had lived as free men in the North before the war.

Often, however, threats to black soldiers were more immediate. Black POWs were abused, forced to labor in the line of fire, and shot after surrendering or while “trying to escape.”


While the concept of eye-for-an-eye punishment might seem medieval, during the Civil War the practice of retaliatory killing was not uncommon. Historian Lonnie Speer has argued that black and white POWs throughout the Civil War were punished or killed to even a score—and this occurred with the knowledge and involvement of military leaders.

Despite this precedent, and continuing unequal treatment of black POWs, Lincoln found it politically and logistically impossible to follow his own orders to the letter.

In some instances, however, he was able to stand by his position that black prisoners be treated the same as white ones. For example, he insisted that black soldiers should be considered equal to whites in POW exchanges—a policy the Confederates finally agreed to in January 1865.

Abraham Lincoln: The president's general order to protect black POWs from Confederate punishment.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Many of these were Irish and German immigrants who had little use for slavery and less use for the arrogant, entitled plantation-owner class.

OH the Irish? If you had any concept of the Irish disdain for blacks you wouldn't have mentioned them. They hated blacks.
Look up the New York riots of 1863.

No need to look it up, thanks.

That's not what I was talking about. Any other unrelated trivia to offer so you can feel like an "historian," LARPer?

You can't talk about Irish feelings towards slavery and leave out their hatred of blacks and the 1863 new york riots.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

More on the matter, for those that are interested:

Black Union soldiers faced harsh consequences when captured as POWs, with Confederate policy initially holding that they could be tried as criminal insurrectionists in state courts, and executed as such. The Confederate Congress also threatened to enslave black POWs—even those who had lived as free men in the North before the war.

Often, however, threats to black soldiers were more immediate. Black POWs were abused, forced to labor in the line of fire, and shot after surrendering or while “trying to escape.”


While the concept of eye-for-an-eye punishment might seem medieval, during the Civil War the practice of retaliatory killing was not uncommon. Historian Lonnie Speer has argued that black and white POWs throughout the Civil War were punished or killed to even a score—and this occurred with the knowledge and involvement of military leaders.

Despite this precedent, and continuing unequal treatment of black POWs, Lincoln found it politically and logistically impossible to follow his own orders to the letter.

In some instances, however, he was able to stand by his position that black prisoners be treated the same as white ones. For example, he insisted that black soldiers should be considered equal to whites in POW exchanges—a policy the Confederates finally agreed to in January 1865.

Abraham Lincoln: The president's general order to protect black POWs from Confederate punishment.

Once again why did the north keep black confederate s as POWS and not free them like other slaves? After all people identified as teamsters cooks musicians etc, after all those are non combatants and would not be taking up arms to fight for the south?
Unless they were actual soldiers.

 

[paperview]

Were you there or was the link provided by someone like paperclip that has already lied about no blacks having guns in the south. Careful about those who claim to be an historian with papers they'll lie.

I know. You are lying right now. I'll take a researched conclusion over someone posting a proven hacked photo everyday of the week.

You call me a liar but not paperclip who has already been shown to have lied about no blacks being allowed guns in the south.
I also notice that you lied about what I said in that other pic, you knew why I posted the pic but claim I said it was for showing black confederates. Time for your lyin ass to leave now isn't it?

You are more than a liar, you are a fraud, a twisted heap of refuse that shows not the slightest bit of lucidity, an incorrigible dupe who displays illogic to the level where one wonders if brain damage has occurred.

You are also one of the most boring, insipid crutchnuts I have come across on the internet. Even JimCrowie outshines you here, and that's saying a lot.

 

[Kondor3]

Traitors, so proud of family history.

"...With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

A. Lincoln, March 4, 1865 - Second Inaugural Address, The Capital Building, Washington, D.C.

==============================

Binding up the nations wounds, and establishing a just and lasting peace amongst ourselves, includes a rendering of honors to Southern troops and military leaders, and allowing an honorable and defeated South to preserve and honor that heritage, as evidenced by the collective behaviors of the North throughout much of the past 148 years since the Civil War ended in 1965.

 

[Unkotare]

OH the Irish? If you had any concept of the Irish disdain for blacks you wouldn't have mentioned them. They hated blacks.
Look up the New York riots of 1863.

No need to look it up, thanks.

That's not what I was talking about. Any other unrelated trivia to offer so you can feel like an "historian," LARPer?

You can't talk about Irish feelings towards slavery and leave out their hatred of blacks and the 1863 new york riots.

I gave you two reasons for the wide-spread support for the Union from within the Confederate states, neither of which had to do with 'love' of blacks or a lack of racism. And the riots in New York were draft riots, you LARPer idiot.

You're trying too hard.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Another attack on White History as well as American history. Fox News is reporting the US Army War College is considering removing portraits of Confederate Generals. An unidentified administrator is wondering why we honor these Americans.

Please, call or write to the US Army War College to voice why these portraits are a part of American History and should be preserved (be kind and considerate and just voice your concern).

US Army War College considers removing prints depicting Robert E. Lee, Confederate generals | Fox News

Military brilliance is as objective as it gets. If anything, General Lee and Jackson is an inspiration to all who study military history and tactics. Together, they broke every rule in the book of military conventional wisdom. Especially with the laws of attrition in mind, they are among the top Generals ever to have walked the face of the earth. To take their portraits down would be a disgrace to the military profession.

That is quite true. Both were brilliant tacticians and leaders.

So was Rommel. Should we hang his portrait there as well?

Ummmm, noooooo, but maybe the Germans would consider hanging his picture in one of their institutions.