Ethics: Is Abortion Taking A Life?

[Chuz Life]

Do we get to make our own definitions now?

Yes. We don't get to choose our own facts but we do get to choose our own values and the definition of a "human being" is one of those value judgments. Is there a universal definition of when a child is old enough to drink alcohol? No, so we all have to choose our own.

Wow. .

Who can argue with logic like that?

I am almost certain that if I were to kill enough brain cells of my own. . . I might even see the connection you have made between the variations in our drinking laws and the objective criteria for being recognized as a "human being." Amazing!

How did I ever miss that connection before?

 

[alang1216]

Do we get to make our own definitions now?

Yes. We don't get to choose our own facts but we do get to choose our own values and the definition of a "human being" is one of those value judgments. Is there a universal definition of when a child is old enough to drink alcohol? No, so we all have to choose our own.

Wow. .

Who can argue with logic like that?

I am almost certain that if I were to kill enough brain cells of my own. . . I might even see the connection you have made between the variations in our drinking laws and the objective criteria for being recognized as a "human being." Amazing!

How did I ever miss that connection before?

What you're missing is that what you call your "objective" criteria is really your subjective selection of what definitions to use to define human being and what you can't comprehend is that others might have a different set of values that are equally valid. Maybe there is the Fascism you're looking for.

 

[Chuz Life]

Is a human being in the zygote stage of their life...

Since when is the Human STATUS something that you have the power or authority to "grant?"

Sheesh, and you guys scoff at the comparison of your mindset to fascism?

That's exactly what it is.

You seem to have assumed that authority.

You can not support that allegation.

Unlike you, I have not assumed an authoritative role and audaciously invented my own definitions to suit my own world views.

I provided definitions that are recognized EVEN by my opponents - like planned parenthood.

 

[alang1216]

Is a human being in the zygote stage of their life...

Since when is the Human STATUS something that you have the power or authority to "grant?"

Sheesh, and you guys scoff at the comparison of your mindset to fascism?

That's exactly what it is.

You seem to have assumed that authority.

You can not support that allegation.

Unlike you, I have not assumed an authoritative role and audaciously invented my own definitions to suit my own world views.

I provided definitions that are recognized EVEN by my opponents - like planned parenthood.

You used the definitions, legal and biological that you felt supported your values and dismissed others:

human being

Pronunciation:
noun
distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.


hu′man be′ing
n.
2. a person, esp. as distinguished from other animals or as representing the human species


Human being, culture-bearing primate classified in the genus Homo, especially the species H. sapiens. Human beings are anatomically similar and related to the great apes but are distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning. In addition, human beings display a marked erectness of body carriage that frees the hands for use as manipulative members.

 

[ChrisL]

A fertilized egg or an embryo is not a human being.

 

[peach174]

I oppose the Feds paying for it.

The feds pay for birth control? Link?

They are now with Obama Care

No, they aren't. The insurance companies are, and some still don't cover BC.

Where do you think that the taxes collected for it are going?

Taxes collected for what? The insurance companies are providing you with insurance, unless you are getting Medicare or Medicaid.

The new health care Chris.
These taxes are going to help pay for it.
The young get taxed for not having health ins.
Brand name drugs are taxed.
Pay to play tax
Medicare tax hike
Cadillac tax. Just wait for the outrage when this one goes into effect.
If you don't think that these taxes are going to help subsidize the birth control pills under the expanded Medicaid then you really should read more about it.
Obamacare’s Funding: Where the money comes from and where it goes? | Align America

 

[peach174]

A fertilized egg or an embryo is not a human being.

It has human DNA so yes that is a human being.

 

[alang1216]

A fertilized egg or an embryo is not a human being.

It has human DNA so yes that is a human being.

Every cell in my body has DNA, am I a trillion human beings?

 

[ChrisL]

The feds pay for birth control? Link?

They are now with Obama Care

No, they aren't. The insurance companies are, and some still don't cover BC.

Where do you think that the taxes collected for it are going?

Taxes collected for what? The insurance companies are providing you with insurance, unless you are getting Medicare or Medicaid.

The new health care Chris.
These taxes are going to help pay for it.
The young get taxed for not having health ins.
Brand name drugs are taxed.
Pay to play tax
Medicare tax hike
Cadillac tax. Just wait for the outrage when this one goes into effect.
If you don't think that these taxes are going to help subsidize the birth control pills under the expanded Medicaid then you really should read more about it.
Obamacare’s Funding: Where the money comes from and where it goes? | Align America

I don't have a problem with that at all.

 

[ChrisL]

The feds pay for birth control? Link?

They are now with Obama Care

No, they aren't. The insurance companies are, and some still don't cover BC.

Where do you think that the taxes collected for it are going?

Taxes collected for what? The insurance companies are providing you with insurance, unless you are getting Medicare or Medicaid.

The new health care Chris.
These taxes are going to help pay for it.
The young get taxed for not having health ins.
Brand name drugs are taxed.
Pay to play tax
Medicare tax hike
Cadillac tax. Just wait for the outrage when this one goes into effect.
If you don't think that these taxes are going to help subsidize the birth control pills under the expanded Medicaid then you really should read more about it.
Obamacare’s Funding: Where the money comes from and where it goes? | Align America

Yes, so you care about some strange woman's unborn embryo, yet once that child is born, you care so MUCH that you would want to deny them affordable healthcare. Conservatives don't make any sense.

 

[peach174]

They are now with Obama Care

No, they aren't. The insurance companies are, and some still don't cover BC.

Where do you think that the taxes collected for it are going?

Taxes collected for what? The insurance companies are providing you with insurance, unless you are getting Medicare or Medicaid.

The new health care Chris.
These taxes are going to help pay for it.
The young get taxed for not having health ins.
Brand name drugs are taxed.
Pay to play tax
Medicare tax hike
Cadillac tax. Just wait for the outrage when this one goes into effect.
If you don't think that these taxes are going to help subsidize the birth control pills under the expanded Medicaid then you really should read more about it.
Obamacare’s Funding: Where the money comes from and where it goes? | Align America

Yes, so you care about some strange woman's unborn embryo, yet once that child is born, you care so MUCH that you would want to deny them affordable healthcare. Conservatives don't make any sense.

We all do want that Chris.
The right has another way of wanting to do it is all.

 

[Chuz Life]

A fertilized egg or an embryo is not a human being.

It has human DNA so yes that is a human being.

Every cell in my body has DNA, am I a trillion human beings?

Can you make the case that each on of those cells is a separate Organism? Can you make the case for how each one of those cells is the product of human sexual reproduction?

Do you have existing laws that already regard those cells as human beings as we do with fetal homicide laws?

No?

I didn't think so.

 

[alang1216]

Can you make the case that each on of those cells is a separate Organism?

Sure can. If I take one of my cells and treat it with the proper mix of chemicals and hormones and then implant it in a women's uterus it might just grow to maturity.

Can you make the case for how each one of those cells is the product of human sexual reproduction?

No need unless you think the product of invitro fertilization is not a human being

Do you have existing laws that already regard those cells as human beings as we do with fetal homicide laws?

If one on my treated cells (see above) was implanted I suspect it would be covered.

 

[Chuz Life]

Can you make the case that each on of those cells is a separate Organism?

Sure can. If I take one of my cells and treat it with the proper mix of chemicals and hormones and then implant it in a women's uterus it might just grow to maturity.

Can you make the case for how each one of those cells is the product of human sexual reproduction?

No need unless you think the product of invitro fertilization is not a human being

Do you have existing laws that already regard those cells as human beings as we do with fetal homicide laws?

If one on my treated cells (see above) was implanted I suspect it would be covered.

You are making the point for me.

Thanks.

"If" and "when" are not the same as "already IS."

To claim the cells in your body are human beings TOO. . . You would have to manipulate them to mimic that which a human being in the zygote stage of their life "already IS"

 

[BreezeWood]

a human being in the zygote stage of their life "already IS"

and it is only as long as you enslave an unwilling parent to nourish it against their will, Hitler or when set on its own will assume its own fate as the same prescribed by the Almighty were it not.

its fate is not yours to render Chuz.

.

 

[Yarddog]

It's a "potential" life, up to the mother whether or not she wants to carry it to term.

Its an oddity to me, hard to understand the legal aspects of it. If a man was to murder a pregnant woman he will be charged with double homicide, but at what point of the pregnancy would he be charged with double homicide? If the woman was on her way to the abortion clinic to abort the child right before she was murdered, would the guy still be charged with double homicide? or should he? I know pretty abstract there, but just something I had thought about

 

[Chuz Life]

a human being in the zygote stage of their life "already IS"

and it is only as long as you enslave an unwilling parent to nourish it against their will, Hitler or when set on its own will assume its own fate as the same prescribed by the Almighty were it not.

its fate is not yours to render Chuz.

.

When Roe v Wade was being argued, It was Supreme Court Justice "Potter Stewart" who said - "once a State establishes that a human fetus is a person. . . the case FOR abortion becomes near IMPOSSIBLE to make"

In response, the pro-abortion attorney for Norma McCorvey (Jane Roe) Sarah Weddington agreed and added - she would have a TERRIBLY difficult case if that were to happen.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

 

[BreezeWood]

a human being in the zygote stage of their life "already IS"

and it is only as long as you enslave an unwilling parent to nourish it against their will, Hitler or when set on its own will assume its own fate as the same prescribed by the Almighty were it not.

its fate is not yours to render Chuz.

.

When Roe v Wade was being argued, It was Supreme Court Justice "Potter Stewart" who said - "once a State establishes that a human fetus is a person. . . the case FOR abortion becomes near IMPOSSIBLE to make"

In response, the pro-abortion attorney for Norma McCorvey (Jane Roe) Sarah Weddington agreed and added - she would have a TERRIBLY difficult case if that were to happen.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

then why is your moniker, chuz life ... when in all your deliberations it is the opposite but a commandment from you everyone must abide your will than their own.

.

 

[Chuz Life]

a human being in the zygote stage of their life "already IS"

and it is only as long as you enslave an unwilling parent to nourish it against their will, Hitler or when set on its own will assume its own fate as the same prescribed by the Almighty were it not.

its fate is not yours to render Chuz.

.

When Roe v Wade was being argued, It was Supreme Court Justice "Potter Stewart" who said - "once a State establishes that a human fetus is a person. . . the case FOR abortion becomes near IMPOSSIBLE to make"

In response, the pro-abortion attorney for Norma McCorvey (Jane Roe) Sarah Weddington agreed and added - she would have a TERRIBLY difficult case if that were to happen.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

then why is your moniker, chuz life ... when in all your deliberations it is the opposite but a commandment from you everyone must abide your will than their own.

.

Are you somehow under the impression that banning abortions will mean that people will no longer be free to make choices?

Rape is a crime (as well it should be) . . . but guess what, rapists still make choices and they are free to make choices.

Just because I support consequences for the choices people make that violate the rights of others. . . You shouldn't take that to mean that I don't support people's right to make choices.

We are all free to make choices. Even BAD choices.

So, my position is not about whether or not people are free to make choices. EVERYONE is free to make choices.

You and I are free to choose to break the law on any given day at any given time. No-one is there to keep us from making that choice.

So, the freedom to make choices is not in question.

The question is "what should the consequences be" for making choices that violate the rights of others.

And the question is about whose rights (if any) are being violated by the choices which are being made.

 

[Mudda]

a human being in the zygote stage of their life "already IS"

and it is only as long as you enslave an unwilling parent to nourish it against their will, Hitler or when set on its own will assume its own fate as the same prescribed by the Almighty were it not.

its fate is not yours to render Chuz.

.

When Roe v Wade was being argued, It was Supreme Court Justice "Potter Stewart" who said - "once a State establishes that a human fetus is a person. . . the case FOR abortion becomes near IMPOSSIBLE to make"

In response, the pro-abortion attorney for Norma McCorvey (Jane Roe) Sarah Weddington agreed and added - she would have a TERRIBLY difficult case if that were to happen.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

.

Their words did not fall on deaf ears.

then why is your moniker, chuz life ... when in all your deliberations it is the opposite but a commandment from you everyone must abide your will than their own.

.

Are you somehow under the impression that banning abortions will mean that people will no longer be free to make choices?

Rape is a crime (as well it should be) . . . but guess what, rapists still make choices and they are free to make choices.

Just because I support consequences for the choices people make that violate the rights of others. . . You shouldn't take that to mean that I don't support people's right to make choices.

We are all free to make choices. Even BAD choices.

So, my position is not about whether or not people are free to make choices. EVERYONE is free to make choices.

You and I are free to choose to break the law on any given day at any given time. No-one is there to keep us from making that choice.

So, the freedom to make choices is not in question.

The question is "what should the consequences be" for making choices that violate the rights of others.

And the question is about whose rights (if any) are being violated by the choices which are being made.

Just like you made a bad choice to defend a moronic position.