For Those Who Don't Understand What Occupy is REALLY About (Obviously LOTS of you)

[Oldstyle]

I guess a lot of people here just believe what the MSM and Right Wing E-media
tell them. This would be the only explanation for some of the posts I've seen.
So I thought I'd help! Here is a C&P from a great OWS site. It will give you
guys a better idea of why you should support us! Here ya go:

"1. We don't want to End Capitalism, We Want to End Corporatacracy.

First, let's make it clear, This is a political movement, not an economic
revolt. We want to end the control of our government by Multi-National
Corporations. This is Issue Number One for everyone I've spoken to in Occupy
Wall Street.

Not one Occupier I know of, wants to turn us into the former Soviet Union (although just like the TP, every movement has it's fringe and the MSM loves to find them). We
don't want to end the economic system which allows people to buy the goods of
their choice. But we do want to end a corrupt political system which allows
Multi-National Corporations to buy the politicians of their choice. So the
single most important theme is Taking control of our government away from
Corporations and putting it back into the hands of We the People.

2. We won't tolerate a government that rewards corporate incompetence, greed and
fraud. No More Bank Bailouts.

The banks bought our government and then, after they lined their pockets with
the wealth of our nation, they blackmailed the government into giving them even
MORE money "In order to keep the economy from collapsing". Right. Then, instead
of making or refinancing home loans, Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo and
others spent our money on business mergers & acquisitions to benefit the 1%. Oh,
and of course, they paid themselves million dollar bonuses with our money.

We want to set a deadline for payback of existing bailouts. Any company that has
not fully repaid all monies by the deadline, should be broken up so that they
are no longer "too big to fail".

3. We want the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed immediately.
For those of you unfamiliar with it: After the Great Depression, congress passed
the Glass-Steagal act to make sure that banks would never take stupid risks or
use corrupt practices to send the country into another Depression. Then 60 years
later, the banks and companies that bought and paid for Republican Senators Bill
Gramm, Jim Leach and Tom Bliley told them that Glass-Steagal was interfering
with their ability to swindle the American Public. Their masters told these
senators to pass a bill that would NOT ONLY allow them to gamble foolishly again
with American Tax-Payer money - they wanted complete control of our Financial
System by being able OWN both stock brokerages and Insurance Companies too.
Then, once their cohorts completed the creation of what's called a "FIRE
Economy" (an economy based on Finance, Insurance & Real Estate) in America, they
would control everything.

Of course the Senators bowed to their masters and Gramm-Leach-Bliley was passed
with a super-majority that was veto-proof. If it had not been passed, NOT ONE
BANK would have needed bailout money because they would have been prohibited
from investing in the Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities Market.

Some people say we should let "The Market" regulate itself. Are the Banksters
worthy of the trust that was given to them under this law? Here's an example:
Citibank is on trial right now.
While they were selling over $500 MILLION dollars worth of those
toxic mortgage securities to the 99% as a good investment, they were betting the
securities would fail by "Short-Selling" at the same time. In other words, while
they sold your parents these securities for their retirement, they made a bet
the securities would fail - and earned over $140M dollars by doing so. Citibank
is currently offering to pay back about half the money they defrauded out of
regular people as long as no one from the bank goes to jail or even loses their
job. Guess what? The government is going for it. Why? Because the 1% doesn't
have to pay for their crimes. We do. In this case, WE'RE paying their $285M fee
with the bailout money they were given. And people wonder why we're mad."

That's just a small part of the REAL message of OWS. it's a little bit different
than what the SpinDoctors of the MSM and Right Wing media talk about or allow
you to see, isn't it?

The Whole World is watching and listening to our message. Foreign stations give more accurate coverage than FOX - who still spews BS about wanting Socialism and anarchy.

Here is an example of the more accurate foreign coverage of our message:

Occupy Wall Street Exposes Enormous Corruption Between Government and Corporations - YouTube

Ok so let me get this Straight.

With the Tea Party, we are suppose to believe what Liberals tell us about them. That they are Racists, and Haters. Despite what we see with our eyes. Which is just a Bunch of Normal People upset about How Government spends money, and ignores what the People want.

With OWS, Liberals wants us to Ignore the Actions of OWS. The Violence, The Anti-Capitalism Signs, the Communist Party signs, the Nazis, and anarchists, and believe what Liberals tell us the Movement stands for?

Sorry, Actions speak louder than words. I am sure there are more level Headed people involved, But the Forces Behind it, and the Core group of the Protesters are indeed Capitalist hating, Communists, and Anarchists, and Nazis.

Obama made this Happen. With the Help of the Lefts Money Bags Soros. Obama as been Crying on the road for Weeks now that people should get mad, get involved. He want's this Distraction. This Move of the Blame from Government to Wall Street, Because he can not win if Americans are Honest and hold him to the Fire along with everyone else.

You can bitch about Wall street all you want, but wall street is not part of our Government. Their Job is to make money, not look out for us. It's the Governments job to over see them. It was government that Encouraged the Practices that Lead to the Housing Crisis. It's always Been Government. Cooperation's have always been Greedy fucks, It's Government that has allowed the Income Gap to Grow. With poor Policies, Corruption, and Ineptitude.

See here's where you, Oddball and those like you are well, basically full of sh1t. What have I, a full fledged Occupier, posted about the Tea Party in this very thread? Instead of being a coward like you or Oddball - instead of projecting what you claim I project and doing the "No, No! Although I'm not a member, I speak for the members of the group I'm obviously clueless about! And that's not what they want!"
Nah. I'm not weak or afraid of the issues, or even afriad to acknowledge valid points like you and Oddball are. I have said this about the Tea Party: They have a lot of valid points. Although there are whackjobs who give the organization a bad name, that doesn't mean all of them are like that. I agree with many of their views.
Whereas weak little pusses avoid the issues brought up by me, an Occupier in the flesh. Instead they simply parrot the bullsh1t their Mind Masters have told them to believe. It's okay. Weakness of character is everywhere. Obviously this weakness is more evident in posters like oddball and yourself, who are simply scared to death to even address issues brought up. So be it.
Another poster said "So what about the three points that were actually made in the OP?" Cowards will never address those.
So Avoid the issues. Run away. It's all you have. Because if you ever had the balls to even try to address the actual issues discussed, you might find you agree with many of them. See signature for your easily predible next steps...

Not for nothing, Independent...but do you not realize that you yourself have done in this string EXACTLY what you're accusing others of doing? You ignored my replies to the issues you brought up while you posted insults to your opposition...all the while repeating your "mantra" that the opposition ignores arguments and posts insults. I don't know you well enough to know whether you're just goofing on people...but if you're NOT...then you're rather amusing.

 

[Liability]

OWS stands for NOTHING that most Americans stand for.

They only CLAIM to speak on behalf of the alleged 99%.

But they don't, really.

OWS goobers protest greed. Ho hum. Few rational people applaud greed.

But recognizing that some corporations behave in an irresponsible and greedy fashion on some matters does not mean that they are -- overall -- "greedy" regardless of how poorly defined that word is when used by the OWS kids.

Some of what the OWS would TRY to label as "greed" isn't even greed. So opposing "greed" is easy, cheesy and meaningless.

Until and unless they explicitly DEFINE their terms, it's a fool's errand to try to "discuss" with them anything of what they pretend to be "saying."

If you combine a bunch of communist-inclined backers with lots of useful communist-inclined idiots and sprinkle in a goodly measure of anarchists and latter-day hippie wannabes, you end up with a bunch of OWS "occupiers." And, by and large, that bedraggled cadre of meandering, pointless, illogical kids couldn't articulate ONE single solitary coherent "position" on any meaningful complaint about the system.

Parsing out the main "problem" they seem most unified in "expressing," it is evident that what they REALLY dislike is capitalism. And this is why MOST Americans do not -- in reality -- share the OWS "occupiers'" pointless, petty, childish point of view.

 

[driveby]

I guess a lot of people here just believe what the MSM and Right Wing E-media
tell them. This would be the only explanation for some of the posts I've seen.
So I thought I'd help! Here is a C&P from a great OWS site. It will give you
guys a better idea of why you should support us! Here ya go:

"1. We don't want to End Capitalism, We Want to End Corporatacracy.

First, let's make it clear, This is a political movement, not an economic
revolt. We want to end the control of our government by Multi-National
Corporations. This is Issue Number One for everyone I've spoken to in Occupy
Wall Street.

Not one Occupier I know of, wants to turn us into the former Soviet Union (although just like the TP, every movement has it's fringe and the MSM loves to find them). We
don't want to end the economic system which allows people to buy the goods of
their choice. But we do want to end a corrupt political system which allows
Multi-National Corporations to buy the politicians of their choice. So the
single most important theme is Taking control of our government away from
Corporations and putting it back into the hands of We the People.

2. We won't tolerate a government that rewards corporate incompetence, greed and
fraud. No More Bank Bailouts.

The banks bought our government and then, after they lined their pockets with
the wealth of our nation, they blackmailed the government into giving them even
MORE money "In order to keep the economy from collapsing". Right. Then, instead
of making or refinancing home loans, Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo and
others spent our money on business mergers & acquisitions to benefit the 1%. Oh,
and of course, they paid themselves million dollar bonuses with our money.

We want to set a deadline for payback of existing bailouts. Any company that has
not fully repaid all monies by the deadline, should be broken up so that they
are no longer "too big to fail".

3. We want the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed immediately.
For those of you unfamiliar with it: After the Great Depression, congress passed
the Glass-Steagal act to make sure that banks would never take stupid risks or
use corrupt practices to send the country into another Depression. Then 60 years
later, the banks and companies that bought and paid for Republican Senators Bill
Gramm, Jim Leach and Tom Bliley told them that Glass-Steagal was interfering
with their ability to swindle the American Public. Their masters told these
senators to pass a bill that would NOT ONLY allow them to gamble foolishly again
with American Tax-Payer money - they wanted complete control of our Financial
System by being able OWN both stock brokerages and Insurance Companies too.
Then, once their cohorts completed the creation of what's called a "FIRE
Economy" (an economy based on Finance, Insurance & Real Estate) in America, they
would control everything.

Of course the Senators bowed to their masters and Gramm-Leach-Bliley was passed
with a super-majority that was veto-proof. If it had not been passed, NOT ONE
BANK would have needed bailout money because they would have been prohibited
from investing in the Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities Market.

Some people say we should let "The Market" regulate itself. Are the Banksters
worthy of the trust that was given to them under this law? Here's an example:
Citibank is on trial right now.
While they were selling over $500 MILLION dollars worth of those
toxic mortgage securities to the 99% as a good investment, they were betting the
securities would fail by "Short-Selling" at the same time. In other words, while
they sold your parents these securities for their retirement, they made a bet
the securities would fail - and earned over $140M dollars by doing so. Citibank
is currently offering to pay back about half the money they defrauded out of
regular people as long as no one from the bank goes to jail or even loses their
job. Guess what? The government is going for it. Why? Because the 1% doesn't
have to pay for their crimes. We do. In this case, WE'RE paying their $285M fee
with the bailout money they were given. And people wonder why we're mad."

That's just a small part of the REAL message of OWS. it's a little bit different
than what the SpinDoctors of the MSM and Right Wing media talk about or allow
you to see, isn't it?

The Whole World is watching and listening to our message. Foreign stations give more accurate coverage than FOX - who still spews BS about wanting Socialism and anarchy.

Here is an example of the more accurate foreign coverage of our message:

Occupy Wall Street Exposes Enormous Corruption Between Government and Corporations - YouTube

In no portion of this post does it mention " gimme gimme gimme", so at the minimum, it's partially incorrect. Please use some "IndependntLogic" and try again, thanks......

 

[dnsmith35]

Not for nothing, Independent...but do you not realize that you yourself have done in this string EXACTLY what you're accusing others of doing? You ignored my replies to the issues you brought up while you posted insults to your opposition...all the while repeating your "mantra" that the opposition ignores arguments and posts insults. I don't know you well enough to know whether you're just goofing on people...but if you're NOT...then you're rather amusing.

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

 

[PredFan]

"I guess" my questions won't be answered. "I guess."

Unions buying Democratic politicians wasn't mentioned because Democrats, like Republicans, are bought by corporations, not unions.

100% Bull shit.

Fannie and Freddy are trivial compared to the corruption of our elected and supposedly democratic government by corporate money.

That isn't what he was talking about. there is more than one point in the OP. Read it again.

 

[PredFan]

Funny how the list of demands that the OWS idiots put out has very little at all to do with the points in the OP.

 

[Full-Auto]

Funny how the list of demands that the OWS idiots put out has very little at all to do with the points in the OP.

Which Park was that list from? It certainly is not uniform by location.

 

[Chris]

Not for nothing, Independent...but do you not realize that you yourself have done in this string EXACTLY what you're accusing others of doing? You ignored my replies to the issues you brought up while you posted insults to your opposition...all the while repeating your "mantra" that the opposition ignores arguments and posts insults. I don't know you well enough to know whether you're just goofing on people...but if you're NOT...then you're rather amusing.

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

 

[dnsmith35]

Not for nothing, Independent...but do you not realize that you yourself have done in this string EXACTLY what you're accusing others of doing? You ignored my replies to the issues you brought up while you posted insults to your opposition...all the while repeating your "mantra" that the opposition ignores arguments and posts insults. I don't know you well enough to know whether you're just goofing on people...but if you're NOT...then you're rather amusing.

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

No one said there should not be some regulation. But the Socialist government experiments all failed decades before capitalist, even unregulated, free market states.Regardless, you missed the real point. OWS is not a movement which has any real idea how to solve the problem. You liberals read into their actions as following the liberal train wreck, but you are wrong, they have no idea who they are following. They are a nothing but, you got it, I want it, gimme.

 

[Chris]

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

No one said there should not be some regulation. But the Socialist government experiments all failed decades before capitalist, even unregulated, free market states.Regardless, you missed the real point. OWS is not a movement which has any real idea how to solve the problem. You liberals read into their actions as following the liberal train wreck, but you are wrong, they have no idea who they are following. They are a nothing but, you got it, I want it, gimme.

Socialism works really well. Why? Because investing in education, healthcare, research, technology, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland etc....

Do a little research.

 

[dnsmith35]

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

No one said there should not be some regulation. But the Socialist government experiments all failed decades before capitalist, even unregulated, free market states.Regardless, you missed the real point. OWS is not a movement which has any real idea how to solve the problem. You liberals read into their actions as following the liberal train wreck, but you are wrong, they have no idea who they are following. They are a nothing but, you got it, I want it, gimme.

Socialism works really well. Why? Because investing in education, healthcare, research, technology, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland etc....

Do a little research.

The countries you named are not socialist. They have some ideas which are socialist in nature, but they are also elected democracies. And they also have a much less diverse citizenry and smaller economies. And some are already experiencing financial break down with too many give aways. In addition, the European mindset accepts regimentation which will never happen in the US. I agree with some of the European concept of education; put the bright kids on university tracks, and the not so bright into trade tracks. But basically the lack of research is your problem. I have lived in Europe for 16 years, Asia 6 years, under democratic, under socialist, and under the eclectic mixture of economic systems. Sure, under the socialist systems there is more financial equality - but at the middle class and the equality is at a lower over all standard, as opposed to the upper middle class here; and the UBER RICH exist there too in about the same proportion as here in the US.

It appears that everyone wants to live like the rich man, but isn't prepared to do what it takes to get there. Like the old cliche, "they stopped working for their 1st million, and are now working on their 2nd million."

Having lived in Germany, Spain and France, and having observed the common man in those countries, I can assure you even our lower middle class citizen lives better than the majority in Europe. Talk about statistical evaluations all you want, the only thing that drags the overall US stats down is on big brother not giving as much hand out to the lower 10%. I believe we should, but until the left wing nutters in government lose control there will be the status quo.

The rich and big business must be very successful (as in the countries you listed) to give to the little guy anything like a dignified living standard. For example: look at housing in Europe. The majority live in smaller spaces than in the US and Canada. Most live in apartments as opposed to single family dwellings. We like space, we will always like space, and our larger spaces tend to cost less than the cracker box size of most European living spaces. My wife and I live in a modest middle class neighborhood, in a 2,300 sq ft single family brick veneer home, with 4 bedrooms and 3 bath rooms. One BR is used as an office and one BR is like a small efficiency type apartment in which my mother in law lived until her death and we now use as a guest room. When any one of our 6 children visit we have space for them and since we have such a big family it stays occupied on a semi-regular basis. We live on a military pension and social security, one I earned in work and blood, the other I earned by paying FICA premiums for 40 years.

 

[Oldstyle]

Not for nothing, Independent...but do you not realize that you yourself have done in this string EXACTLY what you're accusing others of doing? You ignored my replies to the issues you brought up while you posted insults to your opposition...all the while repeating your "mantra" that the opposition ignores arguments and posts insults. I don't know you well enough to know whether you're just goofing on people...but if you're NOT...then you're rather amusing.

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

You might have a point, Chris except for the fact that the underlying reason that derivatives failed was that government intervened in the housing market and decided that banks asking for 20% down and for creditors to have a verifiable income sufficient to maintain a mortgage was unfair to lower income people. Government changed the rules, forcing banks to make loans they would never have made prior to that intervention.

A true free market would have prevented the flood of sub prime loans that caused the derivatives melt down...but we didn't have that.

 

[dnsmith35]

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

You might have a point, Chris except for the fact that the underlying reason that derivatives failed was that government intervened in the housing market and decided that banks asking for 20% down and for creditors to have a verifiable income sufficient to maintain a mortgage was unfair to lower income people. Government changed the rules, forcing banks to make loans they would never have made prior to that intervention.

A true free market would have prevented the flood of sub prime loans that caused the derivatives melt down...but we didn't have that.

The simplistic solution put forth by left leaning people is GOVERNMENT CONTROL. Sure, there must be laws which prevent fraud, which control illegal activities. But over regulating business tends to generate unintended consequences. As you pointed out, the government "suggesting" that lenders give more credit to those who were not credit worthy created part of the problem which caused the housing bubble to burst. But what caused the bubble to begin with, other than the over evaluation caused by too many people seeking too few homes? Speculators buying up anything the lenders would finance drove prices up will above actual values. That in turn made it more difficult for people to buy single family owner occupied dwellings. Additionally, too many people used ARMs with the low starting interest to buy more house than they could ordinarily afford and got sucked in when interest went up and they could no longer afford the payments.

All and all, greed at the consumer level, bad policy at the government level and the extension of consumer greed to the investment banker side of the house caused the housing collapse and brought on the recession. The free market was usurped by too many factors and the whole thing blew up in our faces; the few, as a percentage of the whole, caused the recession which then hurt the the many forcing even more foreclosures and completed the vicious cycle. From that point on, a poor business climate caused by poor administration policies exacerbated the recession.

 

[Chris]

I think the real issue is more easily explained. The liberals on the forum, who may have more of an idea about what should be done to produce a stable progressive society, have used a typical psychological pathology called transference. They believe, right or wrong, that the OWS are logically following the progressive lock step philosophy. In fact, most of the OWS know only that they, each and every one of them, somehow feel like our system has left them behind. Most don't even know how. And few, if any, have even the slightest idea how to solve the problems society faces. Conservatives and liberals alike believe their economic philosophies would best elevate the have nots to a higher status in a less painful manner.

Each to his own and in the eyes of the beholder will describe the OWS according to his/her own concepts of revolt against economic elitism. Recognize that conservatives as individual are no more sheep following some great conservative in the sky than liberals are sheep following the great liberal in the sky. They are simply people who have different ideas about what is best for society.

Personally I believe the OWS is biting the hands that feed them. Without the rich, to include the obscenely rich, fewer people would have jobs than we have now. Would it be great if there was more equity? Sure it would, but not if it is accomplished by fiat. 1% of the people, the ones who are being protested, pay a significant portion of the taxes that fincance or government, pays the welfare, funds the military and all the other goodies the OWS claims it wants more of.

I think they are squeezing the turnip about as far as that turnip can withstand the pressure. If reforms occur, and if they negatively effect the rich, guess where the rich will go with their money? We are already experiencing outsourcing about which the liberals and OWS are complaining. If you think the bottom 99% is facing austerity now, just watch how it plays out of the OWS and the leftwingnutters who are clamoring to support it get their way.

I am 76, and I won't be around to watch the catastrophe they will cause. It is our capitalist relative free market which made us the richest country in the world, and chipping away at what free market we have left has already started to depress our relative wealth. We can only take so much of this "great reformation."


BTW independent logic, most of the MSM available to the masses all lean left, so when you talk about sheep following lock step with the propaganda, it is much more likely to be the liberal listening instead of thinking.

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

You might have a point, Chris except for the fact that the underlying reason that derivatives failed was that government intervened in the housing market and decided that banks asking for 20% down and for creditors to have a verifiable income sufficient to maintain a mortgage was unfair to lower income people. Government changed the rules, forcing banks to make loans they would never have made prior to that intervention.

A true free market would have prevented the flood of sub prime loans that caused the derivatives melt down...but we didn't have that.

More bullshit.

When the financial markets collapsed only a small percentage of mortgages were in foreclosue.

The destruction of the world economy was caused by a derivatives Ponzi scheme.

The sub prime bullshit is a smoke screen run by the corporate media to fool gullible rank and file Republicans.

 

[PredFan]

Funny how the list of demands that the OWS idiots put out has very little at all to do with the points in the OP.

Which Park was that list from? It certainly is not uniform by location.

I was from back when they were actually on Wall Street in New York.

 

[dnsmith35]

God, this bullshit never ends.

It was the "free market" that destroyed the world economy.

Wall Street ran a $516 trillion dollar derivatives Ponzi scheme.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

You might have a point, Chris except for the fact that the underlying reason that derivatives failed was that government intervened in the housing market and decided that banks asking for 20% down and for creditors to have a verifiable income sufficient to maintain a mortgage was unfair to lower income people. Government changed the rules, forcing banks to make loans they would never have made prior to that intervention.

A true free market would have prevented the flood of sub prime loans that caused the derivatives melt down...but we didn't have that.

More bullshit.

When the financial markets collapsed only a small percentage of mortgages were in foreclosue.

The destruction of the world economy was caused by a derivatives Ponzi scheme.

The sub prime bullshit is a smoke screen run by the corporate media to fool gullible rank and file Republicans.

Wow, you really do echo the leftwingnutter talking point sites very well. The financial collapse was part of the housing collapse. Until too many lenders got in too deep and their reserves were too small, and too many people could not pay their loans and the packages of toxic loans caused investments to go sour and on and on and on.

Leftists like to put the cart before the horse. First came the government, then came the bad loans, then came inflation of real estate prices, then came underwater mortgages, then came foreclosures etc, etc, etc.

Grow up and learn a little about cause and effect and put the horse in front of the carriage. This whole thing started slowly starting with CRA years ago, lax control of CRA, intimidation (not orders) by government making lenders go too far with too little credit requirements, over pricing, a bunch of little things making the real estate market to collapse bringing the investment industry to simultaneously collapse.

 

[Chris]

You might have a point, Chris except for the fact that the underlying reason that derivatives failed was that government intervened in the housing market and decided that banks asking for 20% down and for creditors to have a verifiable income sufficient to maintain a mortgage was unfair to lower income people. Government changed the rules, forcing banks to make loans they would never have made prior to that intervention.

A true free market would have prevented the flood of sub prime loans that caused the derivatives melt down...but we didn't have that.

More bullshit.

When the financial markets collapsed only a small percentage of mortgages were in foreclosue.

The destruction of the world economy was caused by a derivatives Ponzi scheme.

The sub prime bullshit is a smoke screen run by the corporate media to fool gullible rank and file Republicans.

Wow, you really do echo the leftwingnutter talking point sites very well. The financial collapse was part of the housing collapse. Until too many lenders got in too deep and their reserves were too small, and too many people could not pay their loans and the packages of toxic loans caused investments to go sour and on and on and on.

Leftists like to put the cart before the horse. First came the government, then came the bad loans, then came inflation of real estate prices, then came underwater mortgages, then came foreclosures etc, etc, etc.

Grow up and learn a little about cause and effect and put the horse in front of the carriage. This whole thing started slowly starting with CRA years ago, lax control of CRA, intimidation (not orders) by government making lenders go too far with too little credit requirements, over pricing, a bunch of little things making the real estate market to collapse bringing the investment industry to simultaneously collapse.

How did 6% of American mortgages being in foreclosure cause the collapse of the world financial market?

 

[dnsmith35]

More bullshit.

When the financial markets collapsed only a small percentage of mortgages were in foreclosue.

The destruction of the world economy was caused by a derivatives Ponzi scheme.

The sub prime bullshit is a smoke screen run by the corporate media to fool gullible rank and file Republicans.

Wow, you really do echo the leftwingnutter talking point sites very well. The financial collapse was part of the housing collapse. Until too many lenders got in too deep and their reserves were too small, and too many people could not pay their loans and the packages of toxic loans caused investments to go sour and on and on and on.

Leftists like to put the cart before the horse. First came the government, then came the bad loans, then came inflation of real estate prices, then came underwater mortgages, then came foreclosures etc, etc, etc.

Grow up and learn a little about cause and effect and put the horse in front of the carriage. This whole thing started slowly starting with CRA years ago, lax control of CRA, intimidation (not orders) by government making lenders go too far with too little credit requirements, over pricing, a bunch of little things making the real estate market to collapse bringing the investment industry to simultaneously collapse.

How did 6% of American mortgages being in foreclosure cause the collapse of the world financial market?

6% of how many millions? Did I say it was the only issue? How many mortgage companies went tits up? How much money did the government have to give to save Freddie and Fannie because of defaults? Have you any idea how many homes are in default which have not been foreclosed?

In other words Chris, pull in your claws and look at the big picture. All of the combined issues CAUSED the financial collapse. Chicken and egg Chris, poor government policies encouraging loans without all of the credit safeguards let to the collapse. Read the facts, not the left wing talking points. Stop expecting the quick and easy one point caused the mess. It was a combination of many things but it started with government encouragement and lack of proper oversight. And beware of that liberal talking point site to give you the "information" you think you need. It is propaganda.

 

[Chris]

Wow, you really do echo the leftwingnutter talking point sites very well. The financial collapse was part of the housing collapse. Until too many lenders got in too deep and their reserves were too small, and too many people could not pay their loans and the packages of toxic loans caused investments to go sour and on and on and on.

Leftists like to put the cart before the horse. First came the government, then came the bad loans, then came inflation of real estate prices, then came underwater mortgages, then came foreclosures etc, etc, etc.

Grow up and learn a little about cause and effect and put the horse in front of the carriage. This whole thing started slowly starting with CRA years ago, lax control of CRA, intimidation (not orders) by government making lenders go too far with too little credit requirements, over pricing, a bunch of little things making the real estate market to collapse bringing the investment industry to simultaneously collapse.

How did 6% of American mortgages being in foreclosure cause the collapse of the world financial market?

6% of how many millions? Did I say it was the only issue? How many mortgage companies went tits up? How much money did the government have to give to save Freddie and Fannie because of defaults? Have you any idea how many homes are in default which have not been foreclosed?

In other words Chris, pull in your claws and look at the big picture. All of the combined issues CAUSED the financial collapse. Chicken and egg Chris, poor government policies encouraging loans without all of the credit safeguards let to the collapse. Read the facts, not the left wing talking points. Stop expecting the quick and easy one point caused the mess. It was a combination of many things but it started with government encouragement and lack of proper oversight. And beware of that liberal talking point site to give you the "information" you think you need. It is propaganda.

You did not answer the question.

How did 6% of American mortgages being in foreclosure cause the collapse of the world financial market?

 

[freedombecki]

How did 6% of American mortgages being in foreclosure cause the collapse of the world financial market?

By the civil war it has made manifest.