Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

[bripat9643]

Israel is a war crime.

"The Guardian has compiled detailed evidence of alleged war crimes committed by Israel during the 23-day offensive in the Gaza Strip earlier this year, involving the use of Palestinian children as human shields and the targeting of medics and hospitals..."

Gaza war crimes investigation: Guardian uncovers evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes in Gaza | World news | guardian.co.uk

Hamas and the PLO use children as human shields, not Israel. The Guardian is an anti-Semitic pro PLO propaganda rag. It appears you are an avid reader of anti-Semitic propaganda.

Can you offer any proof of your allegations against the Guardian?
Imagine my surprise.

"Amnesty International has said Hamas should be investigated for executing at least two dozen Palestinian men in an apparent bout of score-settling with rivals and alleged collaborators while Operation Cast Lead was under way.

"Human rights groups say the vast majority of offences were committed by Israel, and that the Gaza offensive was a disproportionate response to Hamas rocket attacks.

"Since 2002, there have been 21 Israeli deaths by Hamas rockets fired from Gaza, and during Operation Cast Lead there were three Israeli civilian deaths, six Israeli soldiers killed by Palestinian fire and four killed by friendly fire.

Gaza war crimes investigation: Guardian uncovers evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes in Gaza | World news | guardian.co.uk

Israel began the killing in 1948 when a Jewish state was imposed by force of arms on a population that was two-thirds non-Jew. Deal with it.

That population attacked the nation of Israel that the United Nations agreed to. The "Palestinians" are nothing but a gang of murdering savages.

These "human rights groups" you refer to are all pro PLO and anti-Semitic, including Amnesty International. The left hates Israel because it uses military might to defend itself - something they hate. They can't stand to see a successful democracy defend itself against barbarians.

 

[Inthemiddle]

[He has spewed his hatred for Israel into this forum. For him, the Israelis are guilty of everything the bloodthirsty murdering PLO savages accuse them of, while the PLO is utterly innocent. That's exactly the position taken by every anti-Semite.

First of all, stop calling me an anti-Semite. I'm a Jew, I'm not an anti-Semite.

Second of all, I never said anything about hating Israel. I am critical of Israel, and I put blame squarely on both sides. The Irsraeli government is by no means innocent in all of this. They are just as guilty. They say they are just trying to defend themselves, but so are the Palestinians. The main difference is that Israel, from the moment it came into existence, and even the moving parts that were in place before it declared independence, have been continually encroaching upon the Palestinians lands, driving them out of their homes, and and then complain that they have to defend themselves against Palestinians, as if they'd done nothing wrong in the first place. We were the initial aggressors, and it's led to a century of conflict. I'm humble enough to admit that.

The wounds that both sides have inflicted upon the other are deep and take a very long time to heal. But the first step is recognition of the other side. Which is why I, as a Jew, understand that the most important thing that needs to happen is for Israel to humble itself as I have, stop playing the victim card, and take some responsibility for itself and its actions. Israel must stop encroaching upon Palestinian territories, must stop undermining all of Palestine's efforts to prosper, and must be willing to make territorial concessions. This, I hope for, for the sake of the Jewish people.

 

[High_Gravity]

What benefit to the rest of the world would a Palestinian state bring?

simple human dignity. They've been living in the equivalent of a Warsaw ghetto for generations. Why? They're just people. THEY didn't do anything wrong.

And if you turn that "Warsaw ghetto" into a nation. then what happens? Who runs the nation? How do they support themselves? If others leave them to their own devices, can they be self sufficient? Do they have a plan to provide for the citizens of their new nation? What kind of exports do you see coming from a nation of Palestine? Will they stop teaching their children the glory of martyrdom? I don't care at this point about attempting to fix the past. Let's concentrate on the future and see if those people that call themselves Palestinians have something to offer to the rest of the world because if the plan is for them to gain sovereignty and yet remain a ghetto that demands others provide for them, why should anyone that?
And before people start talking the money we send Israel, realize that we wouldn't have to send Israel money if it were not for having to try to repel the constant attacks from Arab neighbors.

Very good post, and I wish someone from the pro Palestinian crowd would try and tackle some of these questions.

 

[Inthemiddle]

That population attacked the nation of Israel that the United Nations agreed to.

That nation birthed itself in the midst of violence in which it was actively engaging against the nation of Palestine that the UN agreed to, an which Israel itself agreed to.

The "Palestinians" are nothing but a gang of murdering savages.

And you have the audacity to call other people racist?

 

[BlindBoo]

I wonder how the folks in Kansas, for example, would take to the UN coming and declaring Topeka and suburbs as the new American Indian homeland.

Sorry guys, you gotta move.

How do you suppose that would play out?

a more apt analogy would be.. .you live in kansas city. the land is shared by two tribes of native americans and they're told they have to live together peacefully. one tribe says... heck no, and starts war after war against the other tribe and keeps losing.

now.... carry on.

people win and lose land in war ALL the time. the U.N. divvied up a lot of countries after WWII.... most of them are run by Arabs.,,,, including Iraq, the UAR and Jordan... it's only the one little patch of land that ended up run by jews in the sea of arab countries that seems to stick in the craw of certain people..... who should really look into their own conscience and figure out why that would be.

now let's get to reality... they lost. there have to be two countries. it's really that simple. and if the pals' actual goal was a country, and not the destruction of iisrael, they'd have had one a long time ago.

Israel was not formed by the UN. It was the Allied Powers that won WWI that divvied up the Ottoman Empire. not the UN. The Allies promised Independence after WWII for help against the Germans. But the Jewish migration to Palestine started in ernest back in 1870's with the formation of the Zionist movement. Interesting to note that the European Jews were invited to become Palesinian Citizens not to create a new country for their Homeland. The conflict really got started in 1919 after word of the Balfour Declaration got out and the rumors started.

 

[amrchaos]

(This is Sarcasm)

So, Palestians are an imaginary people, huh.

Tell us again, who is trying to wipe out Israel?

But they are imaginary, right!

Have you Jews been playing games with our gentile minds so that you can reclaim your ancestral homes? Anything for the reclaiming and re-institutionalization of Israel huh?

(If you are an Israeli nationalist, you should say "Damn right!!")

 

[BlindBoo]

What benefit to the rest of the world would a Palestinian state bring?

simple human dignity. They've been living in the equivalent of a Warsaw ghetto for generations. Why? They're just people. THEY didn't do anything wrong.

They were offered everything they sought when Bill Clinton was President and turned it down. Enough with the crocodile tears and pure PROPAGANDA. To the victor go the spoils of war. Israel won her land just like any other conquering nation. They have treated the "Trans-Jordanians" with more respect than any other nation in the region. Tell me again why Egypt or Syria, or Saudi Arabia, Jordan will not take in and make a homeland for THEIR own people? I must have missed that tiny detail.

Some might say that the offer of walled enclaves separated by zones of Israeli control did not give the Palesitians the contiguous state in the West Bank they were seeking. Furthermore if you're okay with "to the victor goes the spoils" and the whole "Israel as a conquering Nation" thing, then what will you say if the Arabs get their act together and launch and unstoppable wave into Israel? Will you call on the UN to stop it. Will you call on the USA to intervine on Israels behalf? Why do the other Arab Nation need to create a homeland for the Palestinians?

 

[BlindBoo]

Jordon was created by Britain. Most of the states of the Middle East are creations of the British Empire. Including even Isreal.

Wrong, Israel was created by God for the Jews.

No it was conquered by men with guns and weapons.

 

[BlindBoo]

Imagine that So while Obama and his administration tells Israel what they have to do for the "Palestinians" and the rest of her Arab and Muslim enemie,s Newt says one thing you agree with....Crazy….Obama love that is. Vote for him with a clear conscious

I have a clear conscience. Why would I trade every issue I believe in fo one that isn't even an issue?... Well, except in the minds of the "bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" set....

And as soon as the saudi's write newt a check, he'll be talking about e poor pals *shrug*

And there is the problem, you cannot support Obama and support Israel they are oxymorons. Your belief in liberalism is stronger than your support for Israel..Yep I said it..neg me if you wish.

What a Croc!.

 

[Gadawg73]

I have worked with a few former Mossad agents over the years. Professional to the core.
And they will tell you it ain't God or beliefs that keeps Isreal free.
Guns, ammo and lots of it.

 

[BlindBoo]

huh?

"Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich said in a cable TV interview that Palestinians are an “invented” people with no apparent right to their own state, a rejection of a decade of bipartisan U.S. foreign policy.

Gingrich calls Palestinians an "invented"; people - The Washington Post

Oh lawdy lawdy lawdy...

Two points.

First, what's Newt trying to do? Inspire Palestinians to conduct terrorist attacks against Americans?

Secondly, Maybe the historian, Newt, should have someone point out to him that Americans are an invented people.

There it is... the sickass fucking mindset of a Zombie. These assholes have no problem with William Ayers being buddy buddy with their messiah because deep down they believe America deserves what it gets. This stupidass would actually blame an American who tells THE FUCKING TRUTH if the islamo terrorists blew up kids in American malls.

The style of attacks by the Weather Underground was more like the attacks carried out by the Irgun, Hagannah and Stern gangs against the Brits, rather than Hamas or Al Fatah who often attack soft civilian targets.

But then again anyone who calls the President of the United States the messiah probably isn't going to listen to reason anyway.......

 

[BlindBoo]

Hamas and the PLO use children as human shields, not Israel. The Guardian is an anti-Semitic pro PLO propaganda rag. It appears you are an avid reader of anti-Semitic propaganda.

Can you offer any proof of your allegations against the Guardian?
Imagine my surprise.

"Amnesty International has said Hamas should be investigated for executing at least two dozen Palestinian men in an apparent bout of score-settling with rivals and alleged collaborators while Operation Cast Lead was under way.

"Human rights groups say the vast majority of offences were committed by Israel, and that the Gaza offensive was a disproportionate response to Hamas rocket attacks.

"Since 2002, there have been 21 Israeli deaths by Hamas rockets fired from Gaza, and during Operation Cast Lead there were three Israeli civilian deaths, six Israeli soldiers killed by Palestinian fire and four killed by friendly fire.

Gaza war crimes investigation: Guardian uncovers evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes in Gaza | World news | guardian.co.uk

Israel began the killing in 1948 when a Jewish state was imposed by force of arms on a population that was two-thirds non-Jew. Deal with it.

That population attacked the nation of Israel that the United Nations agreed to. The "Palestinians" are nothing but a gang of murdering savages.

These "human rights groups" you refer to are all pro PLO and anti-Semitic, including Amnesty International. The left hates Israel because it uses military might to defend itself - something they hate. They can't stand to see a successful democracy defend itself against barbarians.

War was declared by the surrounding Arab nations as soon as Israel declared it's independence because they couldn't very well declare war on a state that didn't exist. The Arab leaders at the time were very clear on the matter and it came as no suprise. The fighting (and purging of Arab Villages) began months earlier after the UN General Assembly vote (which was not binding) approving the Partition Plan. The plan was to be sent to the Security Council. Had the Arab States not intervened, the Israelis would have probably taken all of Palestine.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Israel was not formed by the UN. It was the Allied Powers that won WWI that divvied up the Ottoman Empire. not the UN. The Allies promised Independence after WWII for help against the Germans. But the Jewish migration to Palestine started in ernest back in 1870's with the formation of the Zionist movement. Interesting to note that the European Jews were invited to become Palesinian Citizens not to create a new country for their Homeland. The conflict really got started in 1919 after word of the Balfour Declaration got out and the rumors started.

I wouldn't say that it started in earnest in the 19th century. The modern "movement" emerged in the late 19th century, but not all Zionists at the time were insistent on establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Some early Zionists tried to lobby the UK to help them create a Jewish state from amongst the UK's colonial possessions. But 19th century British saw Palestine as a more desirable aim, hoping that a Jewish state would become a de facto vassal of the UK and a profitable ally for exploitation, and religious Zionists were generally opposed to any Jewish state that didn't occupy the ancestral region of ancient Israel.

Immigration started, and while the natives became concerned about where it might lead, it was a generally slow and steady pace. It was with the Balfour declaration, and the Bolshevik revolution that immigration started to really pick up.

 

[Cowman]

Hamas and the PLO use children as human shields, not Israel. The Guardian is an anti-Semitic pro PLO propaganda rag. It appears you are an avid reader of anti-Semitic propaganda.

Can you offer any proof of your allegations against the Guardian?
Imagine my surprise.

"Amnesty International has said Hamas should be investigated for executing at least two dozen Palestinian men in an apparent bout of score-settling with rivals and alleged collaborators while Operation Cast Lead was under way.

"Human rights groups say the vast majority of offences were committed by Israel, and that the Gaza offensive was a disproportionate response to Hamas rocket attacks.

"Since 2002, there have been 21 Israeli deaths by Hamas rockets fired from Gaza, and during Operation Cast Lead there were three Israeli civilian deaths, six Israeli soldiers killed by Palestinian fire and four killed by friendly fire.

Gaza war crimes investigation: Guardian uncovers evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes in Gaza | World news | guardian.co.uk

Israel began the killing in 1948 when a Jewish state was imposed by force of arms on a population that was two-thirds non-Jew. Deal with it.

That population attacked the nation of Israel that the United Nations agreed to. The "Palestinians" are nothing but a gang of murdering savages.

These "human rights groups" you refer to are all pro PLO and anti-Semitic, including Amnesty International. The left hates Israel because it uses military might to defend itself - something they hate. They can't stand to see a successful democracy defend itself against barbarians.

Good to see you finally bowed in defeat and acknowledged that you were completely wrong and uneducated about Zionism... considering you're not still responding to my posts saying that Zionism is a word created by anti-semites.

How does it feel to be so humiliatingly wrong?

 

[BlindBoo]

The PLO accuses Israel of committing atrocities. While it's possible some may have occurred, they have nothing to do with official Israeli policy. On the other hand, killing innocent civilians is the deliberate policy of Hamas and the PLO.

Israel was founded on terrorism, you do realize that, right?

That's a meaningless statement. Arabs made war on Israel the day it became a nation.

The shooting war between the two sides had been raging since the UN Voted on the Partition plan. So both Israels declaration of Independence and the Arabs declarations of war are meaningless (except for propaganda purposes).

 

[BlindBoo]

Just because he's not a Zionist doesn't mean he hates himself or his people. There are many, not a majority mind you, but certainly a plurality of Jews IN Israel who do not support the barbarity of the government they live under. Kind of like I'm not a "self hating" American because I don't agree with ours much of the time.

"Zionist" is a term anti-Semites coined to disguise their hatred of Jews.

No it's not.

Zionism

 

[BlindBoo]

You cannot say palestinians are just arabs, and at the same time claim that other nations are syrians, or jordanians, or lebanese.

We seem to be confusing what a nation is and what an ethnic group is. National boundries frequently cross ethnic groups, like they do for the Kurds today for example. While the Kurds are not a nation, they are an ethnicity. Syria is what is left from the French protectorate area given them as spoils at the end of the first world war. It is not an ethnic region or ethnicity. There is no Syrian ethnicity, other than the implied 'nation of origin' which, again is different.

While Palestinians TODAY are not 'just Arabs', Newts characterization of them is valid because he was speaking of their ethnic origens not the arbitrary protectorate areas divied up from Ottoman territories.



States matter, but on some ways they dont really. For example the Sunni from the Syrian plains traverse the boundry between Iraq and Syria and have long had their interests represented by the Baathist Party which was dominant in both countries for decades after 1945. The boundry between Syria and Iraq was more than just porous to them

You dont get to pick both choices at different times because its ideologically convenient for you.

This is not about ideology, but is about who started the killing, and that was done by the Arabs in 1948, and not only in Isreal, but across the Arab world Jews were killed, imprisoned, run out or forced to convert to Islam.

So Arabs started the Killings...WHAT COMPLETE BULLSHIT......ever heard of the TERRORISTS THE ZIONISTS?

What a JOKE some on here really ARE.

So what caused the Riots of 1920 in Palestine? Then what were the consequenses of the riots?

 

[georgephillip]

Hamas and the PLO use children as human shields, not Israel. The Guardian is an anti-Semitic pro PLO propaganda rag. It appears you are an avid reader of anti-Semitic propaganda.

Can you offer any proof of your allegations against the Guardian?
Imagine my surprise.

"Amnesty International has said Hamas should be investigated for executing at least two dozen Palestinian men in an apparent bout of score-settling with rivals and alleged collaborators while Operation Cast Lead was under way.

"Human rights groups say the vast majority of offences were committed by Israel, and that the Gaza offensive was a disproportionate response to Hamas rocket attacks.

"Since 2002, there have been 21 Israeli deaths by Hamas rockets fired from Gaza, and during Operation Cast Lead there were three Israeli civilian deaths, six Israeli soldiers killed by Palestinian fire and four killed by friendly fire.

Gaza war crimes investigation: Guardian uncovers evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes in Gaza | World news | guardian.co.uk

Israel began the killing in 1948 when a Jewish state was imposed by force of arms on a population that was two-thirds non-Jew. Deal with it.

That population attacked the nation of Israel that the United Nations agreed to. The "Palestinians" are nothing but a gang of murdering savages.

These "human rights groups" you refer to are all pro PLO and anti-Semitic, including Amnesty International. The left hates Israel because it uses military might to defend itself - something they hate. They can't stand to see a successful democracy defend itself against barbarians.

What's democratic about this?

"In recent weeks, a spate of anti-democratic measures have won support from Netanyahu’s rightwing government, justified by a new security doctrine: see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil of Israel.

"If the legislative proposals pass, the Israeli courts, Israel’s human rights groups and media, and the international community will be transformed into the proverbial three monkeys..."

Jonathan Cook: Israel’s grand hypocrisy | Israeli Occupation Archive

Feel free to explain why in a 2010 international poll Israel was ranked alongside North Korea as the most disliked and feared country in the world.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Prior to 1947, "Palestinians" were known as "Jordanians".

 

[BlindBoo]

Prior to 1947, "Palestinians" were known as "Jordanians".

When did they establish the Mandate for Palestine?