"Good guy" with gun shoots car jacking victim, then flees.

[2aguy]

If someone is that paranoid maybe it's best they don't own, let alone carry a firearm. The victim had already been carjacked and the suspects were driving away when the shots were fired. I don't think self defense of himself or the victim could be applied here. He clearly realized his actions weren't lawful. This turd makes the rest of us (gun owners) look bad. Exercising your right "to keep and bear arms" also comes with great responsibilities.

I believe what happens to some who simply obtain a handgun, strap it on and go out in public is their thoughts are filled with fanciful notions about their armed status and its responsibilities. So when something stressful takes place they have no substantive reference to manage their response and they do the wrong thing, which probably accounts for this fellow's precipitous action. I'm sure if he had been properly instructed he would have been more restrained.

Except reality proves you wrong....Americans with little to no training use guns effectively and accurately to stop crime every single day....and they do so in the midst of violent attack and do so responsibly, in most cases never firing a shot, or just capturing the criminal and waiting for the police to show up....

You are wrong and have a false belief about how guns are used in this country.

 

[2aguy]

If someone is that paranoid maybe it's best they don't own, let alone carry a firearm. The victim had already been carjacked and the suspects were driving away when the shots were fired. I don't think self defense of himself or the victim could be applied here. He clearly realized his actions weren't lawful. This turd makes the rest of us (gun owners) look bad. Exercising your right "to keep and bear arms" also comes with great responsibilities.

I believe what happens to some who simply obtain a handgun, strap it on and go out in public is their thoughts are filled with fanciful notions about their armed status and its responsibilities. So when something stressful takes place they have no substantive reference to manage their response and they do the wrong thing, which probably accounts for this fellow's precipitous action. I'm sure if he had been properly instructed he would have been more restrained.

Yes...tell that to the people shot accidentally by the police......

 

[The Great Goose]

Looks like amatuers with guns can cause more damage than good. A trained person would know not to shoot in that circumstance.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Talk to yourself a lot, 2aGuy?

That's a bad sign.....

 

[Brain357]

The 2.5 million crimes prevented figure by fire arms include the police.

And no....2 million if you just use the studies that do not include police or military shootings......I pointed that out in my list....

Please show that 2 million is even mathematically possible using crime rates and gun ownership. Hint: it is not possible, we only have 1.5 million violent crimes a year... A minority can't defend more crimes than occur.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The 2.5 million crimes prevented figure by fire arms include the police.

And no....2 million if you just use the studies that do not include police or military shootings......I pointed that out in my list....

No, that is wrong. The 2.5 million police use of weapons is correct, always has been.

 

[Brain357]

You are the one lying and making things up.

So what is your number?

I already told you. A lot more than you think.

I see so you want to lie and avoid answering questions. Let me know when you grow up.

Hey, I haven't seen you post credible numbers on how many defensive gun uses there are a year.

The largest study was done by the NCVS and arrived at about 108k per year.

It isn't a gun study dipshit......it doesn't even use the word "gun" in it.......

It is a crime study and you need a crime for a lawful dgu. It clearly asks what happened during the crime.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes: "Owning a gun is a Right"

False: "...and any fee or education requirement that makes it impossible to exercise the Right is un constitutional.."

False: "Americans with little to no training use guns effectively and accurately to stop crime every single day"

 

[Brain357]

And he clearly should be prosecuted.

Ironic is the idea guns make us safer and the only person shot was the innocent victim of a car jacking. How was he made safer?

Not really. YOu have millions of crimes and millions of defensive uses of guns in such crimes, you will have some that don't have happy endings.

THis guy? Was likely NOT made safer as he was accidentally shot.

Well we know who gets shot and killed by guns, and by far it is the owner of the gun(accidently and intentionally). That hardly makes it a safety device.

Studies show many defenses are not lawful btw.

It is pretty obvious that to be able to HONESTLY state that guns are not "a safety device" you would have to consider all the defensive gun uses, that do not result in anyone getting shot.

Why do you hold a position that you know you can't HONESTLY defend?

Well most defensive gun uses are a myth. We do however know who gets shot and killed, by far the owner.

Defensive gun use....the truth...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

The la times is the most wrong on your list. Please link to it so we can look at what they did. How many were surveyed?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The 2.5 million crimes prevented figure by fire arms include the police.

And no....2 million if you just use the studies that do not include police or military shootings......I pointed that out in my list....

Please show that 2 million is even mathematically possible using crime rates and gun ownership. Hint: it is not possible, we only have 1.5 million violent crimes a year... A minority can't defend more crimes than occur.

Then your facts are nonsense by your own logic. Snap: the trap closes.

 

[2aguy]

Yes: "Owning a gun is a Right"

False: "...and any fee or education requirement that makes it impossible to exercise the Right is un constitutional.."

False: "Americans with little to no training use guns effectively and accurately to stop crime every single day"

Just because you say something is false doesn't make it false….and when they are actually true…then you are just being stupid, and wrong.

Any fee that was necessary to vote was unConstitutional, the democrats tried it to keep blacks from voting and they were told to stop. And yes, Americans with little to no training use guns every day to stop violent attacks. Guns are not complicated and do not require Navy Seal combat training to use effectively….that is why they are such great tools for self defense…..with little to no training, small, old, handicapped or people outnumbered by stronger, more aggressive attackers can defend themselves effectively.

You anti gun extremists want to create the image that guns require massive training in order to prevent normal people from owning and carrying guns. We know what you want and what your tactics are ….so no….mandatory training is unConstitutional, and unnecessary…..

 

[2aguy]

The 2.5 million crimes prevented figure by fire arms include the police.

And no....2 million if you just use the studies that do not include police or military shootings......I pointed that out in my list....

No, that is wrong. The 2.5 million police use of weapons is correct, always has been.

except you are wrong…..there are 10 studies that do not include military or police use….and if you average them they come out to about 2 million civilian defensive gun uses a year……..

 

[2aguy]

Looks like amatuers with guns can cause more damage than good. A trained person would know not to shoot in that circumstance.

actually, most defensive gun uses by normal people show remarkable restraint and effectiveness in using the weapon. You just see the bad cases because they make the news more often…and their is an anti gun bias in the press who love to highlight the bad cases…...

 

[Brain357]

The 2.5 million crimes prevented figure by fire arms include the police.

And no....2 million if you just use the studies that do not include police or military shootings......I pointed that out in my list....

No, that is wrong. The 2.5 million police use of weapons is correct, always has been.

except you are wrong…..there are 10 studies that do not include military or police use….and if you average them they come out to about 2 million civilian defensive gun uses a year……..

Course some of these studies aren't even national, and at least one you can't prove exists, and 2 million isn't even mathematically possible...

 

[2aguy]

The 2.5 million crimes prevented figure by fire arms include the police.

And no....2 million if you just use the studies that do not include police or military shootings......I pointed that out in my list....

No, that is wrong. The 2.5 million police use of weapons is correct, always has been.

except you are wrong…..there are 10 studies that do not include military or police use….and if you average them they come out to about 2 million civilian defensive gun uses a year……..

Course some of these studies aren't even national, and at least one you can't prove exists, and 2 million isn't even mathematically possible...

asswipe…it was listed in a peer reviewed paper…..and was created in the 90s so it is very likely not internet accessible…..you know this, and you yourself admitted you never even looked for it…..moron.


And of course since it is from the liberal L.A. Times and shows the defensive gun use at 3 million a year, you hate it…...

 

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy always admits he loses when he goes personal.

 

[2aguy]

Yes: "Owning a gun is a Right"

False: "...and any fee or education requirement that makes it impossible to exercise the Right is un constitutional.."

False: "Americans with little to no training use guns effectively and accurately to stop crime every single day"

Here…..this book by CATO based on their research has the stories of gun self defense culled from actual news sources…..5,000 stories….so go through those and you will see normal people with little to no training dealing with violent criminals effectively and responsibly….

From the book, or White Paper from CATO...."Tough Targets"


And they say because of this.......

"clearly, the FBI justifiable homicide data is not particularly meaningful for understanding defensive gun uses that result in death-and is useless for understanding the vastly larger number of defensive gun uses that do not result in death."

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf

The Data Set


Since the survey data has severe limita- tions with respect to defensive gun uses, collecting accounts of self-defense as they are reported in news outlets may be a better method of assessing the frequency and na- ture of self-defense with firearms. The data set supporting this paper is derived from a collection of news stories published between October 2003 and November 2011.12[
There is a selection bias problem with the method of gathering news stories. Many defensive gun uses never make the news. Sometimes that is because the person us- ing a gun in self-defense saw no need to call the police—he or she scared off the bad guy. In some cases, the victim might not want to explain to the police that he has a gun, perhaps because he is a felon, or perhaps because he lives in a jurisdiction with very restrictive gun control laws. Sometimes the police do get called, but the officers do not find the circumstances sufficiently impor- tant to issue a press release. After all, “Man Scares away Burglar, No Shots Fired” is not particularly newsworthy, unless you live in a very small town.

In spite of the selection bias problem, there is one enormous advantage to this model of gathering data: it provides a rich set of information about motives, circum- stances, victims, and criminals. It also pro- vides a sufficiently large database (almost 5,000 incidents), randomly selected, so that some conclusions about the nature of armed self-defense in America can be drawn. Best of all, whatever the deficiencies of news reporting, the model is not completely de- pendent on the honesty or accuracy of the respondent—unlike some of the questions raised with respect to defensive gun use sur- veys.

As to wether they included criminals using guns defensively........


In a few instances, we have includ- ed cases where the initial news reports were clearly of legitimate defensive gun uses, but where law enforcement or a prosecutor chose to charge a gun owner.
Those are relatively rare; when there was any doubt as to whether a use of a gun might be criminal, it was not included in our list of news accounts until such time as there was confirmation that the defensive gun use was deemed lawful. In only a handful of cases did later investiga- tion turn an initial defensive gun use into a criminalcharge.Themostcommonscenario is that law enforcement officers chose not to prosecute based on the evidence at the scene and testimony of witnesses, but referred the case to a grand jury for review

 

[2aguy]

2aguy always admits he loses when he goes personal.

I call brain an asswipe when he continues to lie about the information posted……that he always has to lie to push his anti gun agenda reveals that he is a vile human being…..

 

[2aguy]

2aguy always admits he loses when he goes personal.

And I'll go personal on you…moron, as I show you are wrong….

See…here are the studies that are easily accessible and located in one spot…..and they are also designated as to wether the police and military were counted…….the L.A. Times study is the one Brain hates because it is a liberal, anti gun paper, and it puts the number at 3,609,680 defensive gun uses by civilians…..

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

Yes: "Owning a gun is a Right"

False: "...and any fee or education requirement that makes it impossible to exercise the Right is un constitutional.."

False: "Americans with little to no training use guns effectively and accurately to stop crime every single day"

And let me go personal with you again, moron….as I show you are wrong….here is "The Armed Citizen" another place that collects defensive gun use stories found in the local and national press and they reveal, again, that normal Americans use guns incredibly responsibly in some of the worst moments of their lives…when they are under violent criminal attack….

NRA-ILA | Armed Citizen®

some examples……

GUN LAWS


MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 2015

Liquor store employee shoots armed robber, WLKY, Louisville, Ky. 09/28/15
An armed criminal entered Liquor World in Louisville, Ky. and attempted to rob the store. An employee on duty responded to the threat by retrieving a gun and shooting the criminal. The would-be thief died ...

KPTV, PORTLAND, ORE. 9/22/15


FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2015

Elderly man fights off intruder, KPTV, Portland, Ore. 9/22/15
A 72-year-old man was at home in Gold Beach, Ore. when two women broke into his home, tied him up and stole his property. Later on, one of the women left the scene, but the ...

GUN LAWS


WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2015

Elderly husband saves wife from armed robber, The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, Ind. 09/22/15
A 27-year-old man armed with a gun entered a rental office in the Eastside section of Indianapolis, Ind. and attempted to rob the 75-year-old woman inside. The woman’s 73-year-old husband was in another part of ...

GUN LAWS


TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2015

Bank robber foiled by Right-to-Carry permit holder, The Detroit Free Press, Detroit, Mich. 09/21/15
An armed criminal entered a Citizens Bank branch in Warren, Mich. and proceeded to rob the bank. According to a report, as the thief was leaving with the cash, he threatened a 63-year-old Right-to-Carry permit ...

GUN LAWS


WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 2015

Gas station clerk scares off robber, The Times Picayune, New Orleans, La. 09/02/15
A man entered a Shell station in New Orleans, La. and attempted to rob the cashier, by claiming he was carrying a gun. The cashier responded by retrieving a gun and leveling it at the ...

GUN LAWS


MONDAY, AUGUST 24, 2015

Teen uses father's rifle to protect siblings from home invaders, KSNV, Las Vegas, Nev. 08/21/15
A 14-year-old was at home with his younger siblings when a pair of home invaders entered the house. The 14-year-old responded by rounding up his siblings and moving to a closet, where he armed himself ...

GUN LAWS


WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 19, 2015

Armed elderly woman fights off attackers, Bay City News Service, San Francisco, Calif. 08/10/15
An elderly woman was at home in Big Sur, Calif. when a pair of men armed with knives broke into her house and attempted to rape her. During the incident the woman was able to ...

GUN LAWS


WEDNESDAY, JULY 29, 2015

Store owner uses semi-automatic rifle to repel armed robbers, WISN, Milwaukee, Wis. 07/27/15, WITI, Milwaukee, Wis. 07/27/15
Rami Murrar, owner of Bouchard’s clothing store in Milwaukee, Wisc., was tending to his establishment when at around 4 a.m. a van smashed into the security doors and concrete posts protecting his store. A daring ...

GUN LAWS


FRIDAY, JULY 24, 2015

Veteran halts gas station robbery, WALB, Albany, Ga. 07/17/15
Army veteran Don Rogers was inside a gas station in Sycamore, Ga. when a robber armed with a gun entered the store and demanded money from the clerk. Rogers responded to the threat by drawing ...

GUN LAWS


MONDAY, JULY 20, 2015

Kansas' new permitless carry law helps citizen thwart robbers, WIBW, Topeka, Kans. 07/13/15
Joe Tapley was inside the Academy Sports and Outdoors store in Topeka, Kans. when three robbers started stealing firearms and cash from the behind the gun counter. As they made their way outside the store, …


I would say that these people are not Delta Force members…...