good ideas don't require government force

[bripat9643]

Social Security is government by force, yet most Americans are comfortable with it. The same could be said for Medicare.

I disagree. Both SS and Medicare were ideas debated and passed by our Representatives, and signed into law by the then POTUS. They are not forced on anyone, anymore than any other law promulgated by our representatives.

Of course they are forced on you. When did I consent to SS?

You have tacitly accepted it. You have every right to leave the United States and live somewhere where you can be totally free, if you can find one.

Sorry, dumbass, but that doesn't constitute consent according to any legal definition of the term or otherwise. If Guido the leg breaker says he's going to provide "protection" to my business for $1000/month, and tells me he'll break my legs if I don't pay him, I haven't consented to it, and that's exactly the way SS works.

Social security was a solution to a problem, one those who have studied history, and in particular US history, understand. In fact it is a regressive tax, since more than half of all working Americans pay a percentage of every dollar they earn to payroll taxes, and yet the wealthy are excused from paying more after earning $128,700; that should be raised to keep SS funded well into the future.

The only problem is solved is getting old people to vote Democrat. You complaint that it doesn't loot us thorghly enough is a fucking joke.

Your ignorance on issues is well known, as is your piss poor attitude. I get it, people like you went into the joint as a tight end, and ended up a wide receiver. Now you want to fuck over everyone else. Grow up and stop being a petulant child.

ROFL! You failed to dispute a thing I said. Calling people who criticize your lame Stalinist ideas "immature" is a classic snowflake tactic. Only the gullible are fooled.

 

[danielpalos]

...let's end our, "required government force" for our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror.

 

[Wry Catcher]

...let's end our, "required government force" for our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror.

Agreed. Let's let chaos ring! Hell, the White House has lead the way, of course the road to chaos was the product of McConnell with the aiding and abetting of Ryan.

 

[dblack]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

 

[dblack]

I cannot agree with the title of the thread.

It is a good idea for companies not to dump toxic chemical into our water supply, but it took government force to stop it from happening.

It is a good idea not to rob a bank, but what outside of government force stops anyone from doing so?

I suspect the OP is talking about the various "social engineering" goals that people are so eager to assign to government. Some people seem to think that if their goals for society are "good" then anything - including government force - is acceptable in pursing them.

With that I can agree 100%. I hate that our tax code is used for social engineering.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

If you mean, "the use of centralized planning in an attempt to manage social change and regulate the future development and behavior of a society" I can agree.

In terms of the use of deception to manipulate individuals into believing tax reform recently passed will benefit all American Taxpayers equally, I agree 100%.

I was referring to tax breaks and credits for things like children, being married, owning a house, going to college and all the things we use taxes as a punishment (smoking, drinking etc)


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And I support targeted tax credits, not as a social engineering experiment, but as a pragmatic use to stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens..

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

 

[danielpalos]

...let's end our, "required government force" for our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror.

Agreed. Let's let chaos ring! Hell, the White House has lead the way, of course the road to chaos was the product of McConnell with the aiding and abetting of Ryan.

lol. We have a Second Amendment.

 

[Doc1]

the smallest minority in the world is the individual. those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

Those who feel that individuals aren't equal, can't claim to be defenders of the people, like the US elections where people in Wyoming get a vote 3 times as powerful as those in California or Texas.

In the House each state has the number the number of representatives is corresponding with the population of that state.

So, Wyoming voters' votes are not any more powerful than votes of those in California or New York.

If number of senators were allocated the same way, there would be no need for the Senate.

And America would not be a Republic.

I think they were referring to the Electoral College. A vote in Wyoming is worth 3 times the vote of a person in Cali or Ny


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So, are you saying that Wyoming abuses the fact that they are a state with small population, i.e. minority?

The Electoral College assures that even 'minority' states have a voice.

Kind of like affirmative action.

Very much unlike AA. In practical terms the money and time spent in small states impacts elections, there is much talk that Trump's election was an accident since he lost the popular vote - nationwide - by millions, and won three states by less than 2% of the entire vote.

The same case can be made for Congressional Districts; when gerrymandering created one party dominance as money was poured into these enclaves to make a safe harbor for a parties incumbent and limit the ability of the other party to win.

We need to reform our elections so we can never again be dominated by one party, one ideology and lead by an inept, incompetent and mendacious President.

"We need to reform our elections so we can never again be dominated by one party, one ideology and lead by an inept, incompetent and mendacious President"

Translation: " I'm still butt hurt that Hillary couldn't win the election Constitutionally so we need to fix it so that Cali and New York can decide everything. "

Not the way it works Willy.

 

[danielpalos]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

Providing for the general welfare means providing for the general Goodness not the general Badness.

 

[danielpalos]

I suspect the OP is talking about the various "social engineering" goals that people are so eager to assign to government. Some people seem to think that if their goals for society are "good" then anything - including government force - is acceptable in pursing them.

With that I can agree 100%. I hate that our tax code is used for social engineering.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

If you mean, "the use of centralized planning in an attempt to manage social change and regulate the future development and behavior of a society" I can agree.

In terms of the use of deception to manipulate individuals into believing tax reform recently passed will benefit all American Taxpayers equally, I agree 100%.

I was referring to tax breaks and credits for things like children, being married, owning a house, going to college and all the things we use taxes as a punishment (smoking, drinking etc)


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And I support targeted tax credits, not as a social engineering experiment, but as a pragmatic use to stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens..

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

 

[dblack]

With that I can agree 100%. I hate that our tax code is used for social engineering.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

If you mean, "the use of centralized planning in an attempt to manage social change and regulate the future development and behavior of a society" I can agree.

In terms of the use of deception to manipulate individuals into believing tax reform recently passed will benefit all American Taxpayers equally, I agree 100%.

I was referring to tax breaks and credits for things like children, being married, owning a house, going to college and all the things we use taxes as a punishment (smoking, drinking etc)


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And I support targeted tax credits, not as a social engineering experiment, but as a pragmatic use to stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens..

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

OffiCial oBscurity!

 

[Doc1]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

Providing for the general welfare means providing for the general Goodness not the general Badness.

To the "Left" "Provide for the General Welfare" means having the Government pay for everything they want.

 

[danielpalos]

If you mean, "the use of centralized planning in an attempt to manage social change and regulate the future development and behavior of a society" I can agree.

In terms of the use of deception to manipulate individuals into believing tax reform recently passed will benefit all American Taxpayers equally, I agree 100%.

I was referring to tax breaks and credits for things like children, being married, owning a house, going to college and all the things we use taxes as a punishment (smoking, drinking etc)


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And I support targeted tax credits, not as a social engineering experiment, but as a pragmatic use to stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens..

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

OffiCial oBscurity!

Providing for the common defense and general welfare, means to defend and stabilize our economy to meet any current exigency.

 

[danielpalos]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

Providing for the general welfare means providing for the general Goodness not the general Badness.

To the "Left" "Provide for the General Welfare" means having the Government pay for everything they want.

unlike the right wing; who also ask for a tax break.

providing for the general welfare engenders a positive multiplier effect and helps us achieve a potential, Commune of Heaven on Earth.

providing for the general warfare, only engenders Hellish conditions on Earth, and helps the rich get richer faster.

Is it wrong to Tax the Rich, into Heaven?

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the People, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the People. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

 

[rightwinger]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

Requiring seatbelts saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
We would not have done it of our own free will

Thanks government

 

[rightwinger]

I was referring to tax breaks and credits for things like children, being married, owning a house, going to college and all the things we use taxes as a punishment (smoking, drinking etc)


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And I support targeted tax credits, not as a social engineering experiment, but as a pragmatic use to stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens..

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

OffiCial oBscurity!

Providing for the common defense and general welfare, means to defend and stabilize our economy to meet any current exigency.

No it doesn’t

 

[Doc1]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

Providing for the general welfare means providing for the general Goodness not the general Badness.

To the "Left" "Provide for the General Welfare" means having the Government pay for everything they want.

unlike the right wing; who also ask for a tax break.

providing for the general welfare engenders a positive multiplier effect and helps us achieve a potential, Commune of Heaven on Earth.

providing for the general warfare, only engenders Hellish conditions on Earth, and helps the rich get richer faster.

Is it wrong to Tax the Rich, into Heaven?

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the People, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the People. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

I know, it's a CRIME that so many want to keep more of their own money. Selfish bastards.

 

[danielpalos]

And I support targeted tax credits, not as a social engineering experiment, but as a pragmatic use to stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens..

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

OffiCial oBscurity!

Providing for the common defense and general welfare, means to defend and stabilize our economy to meet any current exigency.

No it doesn’t

Yes, it does. There are no excuses in the federal doctrine; only in the republican doctrine.

 

[danielpalos]

Seat belts are a good idea

The government forced us to use them

I know you're just trolling, but that actually gets right to the core of the debate. Is it the job of government to promote "good" ideas? I say no, because good is in the eye of the beholder. In fact, we need government to protect us from bullies who think their "good" ideas justify forcing others to play along.

Providing for the general welfare means providing for the general Goodness not the general Badness.

To the "Left" "Provide for the General Welfare" means having the Government pay for everything they want.

unlike the right wing; who also ask for a tax break.

providing for the general welfare engenders a positive multiplier effect and helps us achieve a potential, Commune of Heaven on Earth.

providing for the general warfare, only engenders Hellish conditions on Earth, and helps the rich get richer faster.

Is it wrong to Tax the Rich, into Heaven?

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the People, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the People. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

I know, it's a CRIME that so many want to keep more of their own money. Selfish bastards.

The crime is spending money on allegedly, really really important Things, and then refusing to pay for it.

Only Vandals, do that.

 

[dblack]

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

OffiCial oBscurity!

Providing for the common defense and general welfare, means to defend and stabilize our economy to meet any current exigency.

No it doesn’t

Yes, it does. There are no excuses in the federal doctrine; only in the republican doctrine.

You seem to think your quips are provocative enigmas, proving some subtle point.

 

[rightwinger]

That IS social engineering. It's not the job of government to "stabilize our economy and the needs of our citizens".

Post canals and post roads!

OffiCial oBscurity!

Providing for the common defense and general welfare, means to defend and stabilize our economy to meet any current exigency.

No it doesn’t

Yes, it does. There are no excuses in the federal doctrine; only in the republican doctrine.

Different subjects