Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[2aguy]

Well, the ones that compare gun murders vs. lives saved and violent crimes stopped by guns used by law abiding civilians.....I have posted them numerous times and you seem to ignore them....

 

[bripat9643]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

 

[Saigon]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

You're a child really, aren't you?

Everything just comes down to "I won't read. I won't research. I won't learn" Learning is pinko! Reading is pinko!

 

[Saigon]

Hitler controlled the German economy...he was a socialist and socialism is a left wing economic system....to pretend otherwise is odd, because the other socialists, the communists, also controlled their economy....but the main point....the left wants to disown hitler because his crimes were public...everyone knows that he murdered at least, if not more, than 12 million people.....his death camps were liberated and his minions were put on trial for the world to see....

Not so his communist colleagues....their mass murder was hidden in vast empty places and was covered up by western fellow travelers like walter duranty and their agents in the west...who did everything they could to promote their brand of socialism and followed the orders of their socialist masters in the soviet union....the communist mass murder in China was hidden as well....and even today...you have people in obama's administration quoting mao favorably....and without shame....

So, the left has been able to hide the fact that leftism and socialism at it's worst leads to mass murder on a scale that is just hard for regular people to understand...as stalin or lenin is said to have pointed out....one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic....

Except for hitler....there is no way for them to hide his mass murder....and beside this, he didn't want socialism on an international scale...so the international socialists were against him for that....and the fact that at the outset he defeated them in Germany just really pissed them off....so they have every reason to separate his brand of socialism from theirs....

And the icing on the cake...........they can use him to smear their enemies.....that is not only a sound tactic...but they find much glee in claiming he was a capitalist....knowing that it isn't true....

The left knows one thing better than anyone else....they know how to lie, and lie big....and that is what they do with hitler....

It's like you think if you say something 100 times it will just become true.

You're trying to say he's a Socialist. You try saying he controlled the economy. And as you think that both Stalin and Hitler did this therefore they must be the same thing. It's like you're not writing in English but in simpleton.

None of what you say actually makes any sense. You've not really backed up what you've said either.

He doesn't "try to say it." It's a simple fact. We've proved it over and over again. You and your turd allies simply ignore the proof. The Nazis controlled the German economy in excruciating detail. If you deny that, you only prove that you're immune to facts.

He is still right.

Companies in Nazi Germany WERE privately owned. They issued shares, traded and eported. They paid dividends.

Small companies likewise, were privately owned. They made profits and losses. People earned salaries.

Thus, Germany was a capitalist country. Not pretty, not perfect, not pure, but capitalist without question.

Bill -

The topic here is fascism, not gun control. If you want me to look at gun stats, start a thread on the topic.

 

[Saigon]

BriPat -

If you are interested in Franco's economics - read. Research. Learn.

I am not going to cut and paste 25 pages of details on Franco's evonomic policy, because you won't read it, and everyone sensible person here knows that Franco was right-wing and a capitalist anyway.

Your policy of screaming "Show me the proof!" followed closely by "I won't read that, it might be pinko!" is childish beyond words.

You don't WANT proof. You on't want facts. You certinly don't want objectivity.

What you want is to keep your fantasy world afloat, and you know facts will sink it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

Bripat rejected all reality long ago. It's why he votes GOP.

 

[bripat9643]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

You're a child really, aren't you?

Everything just comes down to "I won't read. I won't research. I won't learn" Learning is pinko! Reading is pinko!

If you could produce actual evidence, you would. The reality is all you can produce is the totally unsupported opinions of a bunch of pinko history professors. I've researched plenty, and I've learned plenty. On thing I've learned is not to pay attention to pompous humbugs who have no actual facts at their disposal.

 

[bripat9643]

BriPat -

If you are interested in Franco's economics - read. Research. Learn.

I am not going to cut and paste 25 pages of details on Franco's evonomic policy, because you won't read it, and everyone sensible person here knows that Franco was right-wing and a capitalist anyway.

Your policy of screaming "Show me the proof!" followed closely by "I won't read that, it might be pinko!" is childish beyond words.

You don't WANT proof. You on't want facts. You certinly don't want objectivity.

What you want is to keep your fantasy world afloat, and you know facts will sink it.

Short answer: you don't know a fucking thing about Franco's economics, and you don't care.

BTW, I know people keep telling you this, but I'll do it one more time to reinforce the lesson. Telling people to "go read a book" is not proof of anything. It's an admission that you are unable to post any actual facts.

 

[Contumacious]

Hitler was anti-capitalist and a socialist. Get over it.

Hence why he privatised industry and fought against the Socialists and Communists in Spain, the USSR and supported countries like Japan huh?

He did not privatized industry - he did not nationalized it.

He was simply a fascist - fascists tend to massively regulate - they don't nationalize it.
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[westwall]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

You're a child really, aren't you?

Everything just comes down to "I won't read. I won't research. I won't learn" Learning is pinko! Reading is pinko!

Explain the differences between Stalins government and Hitlers. C'mon child. You make big statements but then can't back them up.

 

[Political Junky]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

You're a child really, aren't you?

Everything just comes down to "I won't read. I won't research. I won't learn" Learning is pinko! Reading is pinko!

Explain the differences between Stalins government and Hitlers. C'mon child. You make big statements but then can't back them up.

It takes a special kind of stupid to think they're alike.

 

[frigidweirdo]

He doesn't "try to say it." It's a simple fact. We've proved it over and over again. You and your turd allies simply ignore the proof. The Nazis controlled the German economy in excruciating detail. If you deny that, you only prove that you're immune to facts.

If you had proven it over and over again, why is this debate still going on? The reality is what you have shown is extremely weak.

Hitler said a lot of things. Hitler claimed he was a Socialist. This is like claiming that North Korea and East Germany are/were Democratic. Hitler was a National Socialist. To use the term "Socialist" doesn't mean he's thinking in the same manner are you are thinking.

In fact there is a very widely used tactic among far right groups which is to misuse words for political gain.

The BNP in the UK which has almost disappeared now said "“There's a difference between setting out your ideas and selling your ideas and the British National Party isn't about setting out its ideas, which are **** ideas too, but we are determined now to sell them, but that means basically to use the same old words, as I say, freedom, security, identity, democracy, nobody can criticise them, nobody can come at you and attack you on those ideas, they are saleable. "



Basically they use words to make people think they're different to how they are. It's about making people like them without concern of whether they're actually saying what they want to say.

"So, instead of talking about racial purity, you talk about identity.”

Changing words. Utilising words for your own audience, or using words for the other audience as and when it suits you.

" "There is no license any more, no private sphere where the individual belongs to himself. That is socialism, not such trivial matters as the possibility of privately owning the means of production. Such things mean nothing if I subject people to a kind of discipline they can't escape...What need have we to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings""

Here's what Hitler said. "Socialize human beings". Is this Socialism? Not it is not. This is "National Socialism" which is something completely different.

So yes, Hitler had control of the economy by controlling the people. However this doesn't mean that he controlled every aspect of private companies.
For example when it came to book censorship, while he had two competing offices which would control what was written, it was generally done in a way that the people controlled themselves.

Hitler didn't have much interest in economic matters. He made sure the people did what he wanted from them, if they were sensible enough to avoid his gaze or the gaze of one of the bodies that controlled them, then they could do as they liked.

You're making the claim here that this is then Socialism as we know it from a left wing point of view. Your main argument is that because Hitler had immense control and Socialism is usually about state control of the economy, that therefore Hitler was Socialist. But it's not true. Hitler controlled, not the economy directly, but the people. Therefore he was extreme.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Hitler was anti-capitalist and a socialist. Get over it.

Hence why he privatised industry and fought against the Socialists and Communists in Spain, the USSR and supported countries like Japan huh?

How many times do you have to be told that he didn't privatize a fucking thing? What Cracker Jack box did you get your knowledge of history from?

Well I guess enough times for it to actually change history. Seeing as this is what you're attempting.

Nazi privatization

"The Great Depression spurred State ownership in Western capitalist countries. Germany was no exception; the last governments of the Weimar Republic took over firms in diverse sectors. Later, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership and public services to the private sector. In doing so, they went against the mainstream trends in the Western capitalist countries, none of which systematically reprivatized firms during the 1930s. Privatization in Nazi Germany was also unique in transferring to private hands the delivery of public services previously provided by government. The firms and the services transferred to private ownership belonged to diverse sectors. Privatization was part of an intentional policy with multiple objectives and was not ideologically driven. As in many recent privatizations, particularly within the European Union, strong financial restrictions were a central motivation. In addition, privatization was used as a political tool to enhance support for the government and for the Nazi Party."

http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

Against the mainstream: Nazi privatization in 1930s Germany

"It is a fact that the government of the Nazi Party sold off public ownership in several Stateowned firms in the mid-1930s. These firms belonged to a wide range of sectors: steel, mining, banking, local public utilities, shipyards, ship-lines, railways, etc. In addition, the delivery of some public services that were produced by government prior to the 1930s, especially social and labor-related services, was transferred to the private sector, mainly to organizations within the party. "

"On the other hand, analyzing the Nazi privatization with modern tools and concepts allows us to conclude that the objectives pursued by the Nazi government were multiple. Of particular relevance were the increased political support and, especially, a combination of increased revenue and expenditure relief for the German Treasury. In short, these motives are quite similar to those that have driven privatization policies in most EU countries. "

Is there any credible evidence that the Nazis nationalized any industries

"No, there is no such evidence.

In fact, I went through Daimler-Benz and B.M.W. histories, and they were very clear their profits remained high and that they were privately owned during that period. Auto Union (Audi) likewise.
Volkswagen was a public subscription corporation, set up by the government as a publicity ploy, but it was never "nationalized" or "expropriated". And so on... "

So this is where you attempt to show any source that shows that Hitler Nationalized industries and business. Because I have not seen one piece of evidence of this so far.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Frigid is obviously totally ignorant of the basic facts of history, but he feels qualified to lecture us on them.

Apparently these basic facts are so obvious that no one bothers to actually source them.

Like Hitler Nationalizing industry, which must have been really popular as I can't find any information about this supposed Nationalization on the web. But I can find out about his privatization.

 

[frigidweirdo]

He did not privatized industry - he did not nationalized it.

He was simply a fascist - fascists tend to massively regulate - they don't nationalize it.

The point being made here is that Hitler was a Socialist. To be a Socialist he had to have Nationalized industry.

Would you say Hitler wasn't a Socialist then?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Short answer: you don't know a fucking thing about Franco's economics, and you don't care.

BTW, I know people keep telling you this, but I'll do it one more time to reinforce the lesson. Telling people to "go read a book" is not proof of anything. It's an admission that you are unable to post any actual facts.

Ah, swear and pretend you know it all, big words, nothing to back it up with.

You're writing very VERY short posts. If you were so damn confident, do you not think more than a line or two would be better to back up what you're actually saying?

 

[Meathead]

Frigid is obviously totally ignorant of the basic facts of history, but he feels qualified to lecture us on them.

Apparently these basic facts are so obvious that no one bothers to actually source them.

Like Hitler Nationalizing industry, which must have been really popular as I can't find any information about this supposed Nationalization on the web. But I can find out about his privatization.

Hitler created Volkswagen as a state-company which he turned into militarized production as the war drew closer.

On this day in 1937, the government of Germany--then under the control of Adolf Hitler of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party--forms a new state-owned automobile company, then known as Gesellschaft zur Vorbereitung des Deutschen Volkswagens mbH. Later that year, it was renamed simply Volkswagenwerk, or "The People's Car Company."... In 1960, the German government sold 60 percent of Volkswagen's stock to the public, effectively denationalizing it.

Volkswagen is founded mdash History.com This Day in History mdash 5 28 1937

You were right about obvious at least.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Frigid is obviously totally ignorant of the basic facts of history, but he feels qualified to lecture us on them.

Apparently these basic facts are so obvious that no one bothers to actually source them.

Like Hitler Nationalizing industry, which must have been really popular as I can't find any information about this supposed Nationalization on the web. But I can find out about his privatization.

Hitler created Volkswagen as a state-company which he turned into militarized production as the war drew closer.

On this day in 1937, the government of Germany--then under the control of Adolf Hitler of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party--forms a new state-owned automobile company, then known as Gesellschaft zur Vorbereitung des Deutschen Volkswagens mbH. Later that year, it was renamed simply Volkswagenwerk, or "The People's Car Company."... In 1960, the German government sold 60 percent of Volkswagen's stock to the public, effectively denationalizing it.

Volkswagen is founded mdash History.com This Day in History mdash 5 28 1937

You were right about obvious at least.

One company makes Socialism huh?

What about all the other companies that simply weren't state owned. Messerschmidt, Junkers, Heinkel and many, many more?

 

[Saigon]

Short answer: you don't know a fucking thing about Franco's economics, and you don't care.

BTW, I know people keep telling you this, but I'll do it one more time to reinforce the lesson. Telling people to "go read a book" is not proof of anything. It's an admission that you are unable to post any actual facts.

Actually I've read quite a lot about Fascist economics in a variety of countries - again, this is covered in the Ian Kerhshaw book I've cited a few times. Spain is quite a classic example of extreme right-wing eonomics. I'm not an expert, but I know enough to see the obvious.

Put it this way - does THIS sound like socialism to you?

As these developments steadily converted Spain's economic structure into one more closely resembling a free-market economy, the country entered the greatest cycle of industrialization and prosperity it had ever known. Foreign aid took the form of US$75 million in drawing rights from the IMF, US$100 million in OEEC credits, US$70 million in commercial credits from the Chase Manhattan Bank and the First National City Bank, US$30 million from the Export-Import Bank of the United States, and funds from United States aid programs. Total foreign backing amounted to US$420 million. The principal lubricants of the economic expansion, however, were the hard currency remittances of one million Spanish workers abroad, which are estimated to have offset 17.9% of the total trade deficit from 1962 to 1971; the gigantic increase in tourism that drew more than 20 million visitors per year by the end of the 1960s, accounting by then for 9% of GNP; a car industry that grew at a staggering compound rate of 21.7% per year from 1958 to 1972; and direct foreign investment, which between 1960 and 1974 amounted to an impressive US$7.6 billion. More than 40% of this investment came from the United States, almost 17% came from Switzerland, and the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) and France each accounted for slightly more than 10%. By 1975 foreign capital represented 12.4% of the total invested in Spain's 500 largest industrial firms. More important than the actual size of the foreign investment was the access it gave Spanish companies to up to date technology. An additional billion dollars came from foreign sources through a variety of loans and credit devices.

Economic history of Spain - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

So according to you - no one has proven that this is right-wing. And you wonder why I suggest that it might be common knowledge that something resembling free-market economy would be right wing?

Again - I would recommend that you get over your fear of books and get up to speed.

 

[Discombobulated]

So we have proven that fascist and para-fascist leaders can definitely be right.wing, no?

No, you haven proven shit. As always, all you have done is quote some pinko history professor spewing his totally unsupported opinion that Franco was right-wing.

Bripat rejected all reality long ago. It's why he votes GOP.

He does seem very proud of his stupidity.