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Hitler wanted the Jews expelled from the whole of Europe so he could build his "Thousand Year Reich", but no countries would take them, so he treated them (and millions of non Jews) like subhumans and lost no sleep over their suffering and deaths.
Where it gets murky (and highly suspect) is the issue of numbers of dead, methods of death, motivations, etc.
I watched another "holocaust" show on Netflix about an American soldiers who ended up POWs and put in a camp with European Jews and others. Some real tear-jerking stuff seeing these (still living) American Vets and their memories. I welled up more than once. But that's war. War is Hell. I saw nothing in that program any worse than what was done by Russians or Japanese in WW2. Savagery is a tool of war, it's not unique to "the holocaust".
No, you are completely wrong. There is no controversy about the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The only question about numbers is the estimates of the total number of people killed in situ by Einsatzgruppen and other SS units; if anything those numbers are too low, extremely conservative estimates.
Then why are the numbers being reduced as to the claims?
Israeli Historians Welcome Revision Of Auschwitz Death Toll
Krakowski said the revised figures were in line with Yad Vashem estimates that fewer than 2 million people were killed in Auschwitz-Birkenau, among them up to 90 percent Jews.
holocaust death toll revised - Bing Images
Notice they added "mainly jews" to the new plaque to appease the usual suspects.
This is "history"...
holocaust death toll revised - Bing Images
Notice they added "mainly jews" to the new plaque to appease the usual suspects.
This is "history"...
PW, kindly explain how 90% or so is not 'mainly'.
And then explain what you're trying to claim by your words which I've bolded?
Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...
I think there are enough indirect references to make sound logical conclusions
anyway...his diary isn't the only source of gaseous behavior.
I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.
since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.
I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.
holocaust death toll revised - Bing Images
Notice they added "mainly jews" to the new plaque to appease the usual suspects.
This is "history"...
PW, kindly explain how 90% or so is not 'mainly'.
And then explain what you're trying to claim by your words which I've bolded?
It goes to SHOAH, which is a purposeful downplaying of all "the others" besides Jews who died....
I think there are enough indirect references to make sound logical conclusions
anyway...his diary isn't the only source of gaseous behavior.
I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.
since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.
I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.
Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)
"
The US forces found hundreds of dead in Mauthausen.
On August 8 1938, Himmler ordered a couple of hundred prisoners from the Dachau camp to be transported to the little town of Mauthausen just outside Linz. The plan was to build a new camp in order to supply slave labor for the Wiener Graben stone quarry. Until 1939, most of the prisoners were put to work building the camp and the living quarters for the SS. The main camp of Mauthausen consisted of 32 barracks surrounded by electrified barbed wire, high stone walls, and watch towers. Due to the immense number of prisoners that poured into the camp, Commandant Ziereis ordered that the fields to the north and west were to be ringed with wire. Here, Hungarian Jews and Russian soldiers, mostly, were kept in the open, all year around......"
Penelope, if you believe this account is NOT factual, you need to give us the reasons for your claim that it is in error. What facts are not being reported accurately?
How do you presume to know that this eyewitness' account is not accurate?
"An eyewitness report from Olga Wormser can perhaps give a hint of the life in the quarries: " Eighty-seven Dutch Jews were sent to the quarries separated from all the other prisoners. There they encountered the effeminate SS men known as "Hans" and "The blond Damsel". These two with pick handles in hand flailed into this pathetic group who were digging in the mountainside. By eleven-thirty, 47 of the 87 lay dead on the ground. They were butchered, one after another, before the eyes of fellow prisoners helpless to do anything. That afternoon, four more were killed. They were taken to the cliff top and told to fight. When two dropped to the rocks below, the victors would go free. Two dropped, but the victors were immediately pushed to join them."
How do you explain these accounts?
"Another killing method, favored by the SS during the winter season, was to gather a group of prisoners in the garage yard and order them to undress. A guard then sprayed water over the group which was left to freeze to death. This was quite effective in a region where the winter temperature usually was around minus 10 degrees Celsius.
If possible, the Gusen complex was considered as even a worse fate than Mauthausen. Here the death toll was so high that each barrack was divided in an "A" and "B" part ("Stube A, Stube B"). The sick, wounded or those too weak to work were hurled in the Stube B. Here, covered in their own excrement and those of others, they lay on the ground or upon others, wherever they were flung, and left to die. No food or water reached the Stube B."
I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.
since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.
I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.
Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)
"
The US forces found hundreds of dead in Mauthausen.
On August 8 1938, Himmler ordered a couple of hundred prisoners from the Dachau camp to be transported to the little town of Mauthausen just outside Linz. The plan was to build a new camp in order to supply slave labor for the Wiener Graben stone quarry. Until 1939, most of the prisoners were put to work building the camp and the living quarters for the SS. The main camp of Mauthausen consisted of 32 barracks surrounded by electrified barbed wire, high stone walls, and watch towers. Due to the immense number of prisoners that poured into the camp, Commandant Ziereis ordered that the fields to the north and west were to be ringed with wire. Here, Hungarian Jews and Russian soldiers, mostly, were kept in the open, all year around......"
Penelope, if you believe this account is NOT factual, you need to give us the reasons for your claim that it is in error. What facts are not being reported accurately?
How do you presume to know that this eyewitness' account is not accurate?
"An eyewitness report from Olga Wormser can perhaps give a hint of the life in the quarries: " Eighty-seven Dutch Jews were sent to the quarries separated from all the other prisoners. There they encountered the effeminate SS men known as "Hans" and "The blond Damsel". These two with pick handles in hand flailed into this pathetic group who were digging in the mountainside. By eleven-thirty, 47 of the 87 lay dead on the ground. They were butchered, one after another, before the eyes of fellow prisoners helpless to do anything. That afternoon, four more were killed. They were taken to the cliff top and told to fight. When two dropped to the rocks below, the victors would go free. Two dropped, but the victors were immediately pushed to join them."
How do you explain these accounts?
"Another killing method, favored by the SS during the winter season, was to gather a group of prisoners in the garage yard and order them to undress. A guard then sprayed water over the group which was left to freeze to death. This was quite effective in a region where the winter temperature usually was around minus 10 degrees Celsius.
If possible, the Gusen complex was considered as even a worse fate than Mauthausen. Here the death toll was so high that each barrack was divided in an "A" and "B" part ("Stube A, Stube B"). The sick, wounded or those too weak to work were hurled in the Stube B. Here, covered in their own excrement and those of others, they lay on the ground or upon others, wherever they were flung, and left to die. No food or water reached the Stube B."
I take it Olga is a woman, how would she know what went on up there, was she working in the quarry?
Also Franz Ziereis, sure could remember an awful lot of his death bed.
I believe many were worked to death, I believe many died to starvation and work, and I do wonder why this is a trial for Guido Schmidt who was acquitted ? Why was the trial for him?
I will say I'm sure some of the guards were ruthless, as some of the American ones were as well.
The numbers are made up I feel, and no I have to wonder how Olga knew all this stuff by number. Did she just sit there and watch all this stuff, and why did she survive. Was she in a man's camp?
How does a human address them? Is ignoring them immoral? Shouldn't they be confronted?
People who deny that Israel is massacring more Palestinians than they need to including civilians. How do you address them? Is ignoring them immoral? Shouldn't they be confronted?
Well they did target UN schools, despite having had GPS coordinates. If that doesn't tell you the IDF was trying to send a message of "you target our civilians, we'll do the same." And Israel has a history of using "collective punishment," by destroying houses of entire families who had the misfortune to be related to a suicide bomber.
But just because the current Likud party and "settlers" violate international law with collective punishment and "appropriating" land in the west bank, is not logically or morally a reason to lie about the holocaust. Rather, I'd think the points about the current actions of Israel can be better illuminated by comparing them to exactly what the Nazis did in appropriated Jewish property.
Prove to me you exist. I dare you, we can question anything brought up here, which begs the point. This isn't purely an intellectual exercise. The internet isn't reality, you guys know that, right? Life transcends this ugly digital cesspit. The Holocaust happened in real time. It's been branded and made into a cause now, let alone been trivialized and questioned. But, excuse me, Nazis did mechanize a huge death machine to slaughter Jews. I know this because it happened. That's HOW. Any more questions?
Just one----Why do you only mention the Jews ? Millions of others were slaughtered
Yes, millions other died, but do we ever hear people denying their deaths?
The thread topic is the Holocaust and the reason why it is focused in more than other is because the Jewish Population was almost extinct.
Does that mean that their lives were more valuable than the others? No it doesn't. But like I said, the Jews were almost genocided (yes, I just made up that word).
Well they did target UN schools, despite having had GPS coordinates. If that doesn't tell you the IDF was trying to send a message of "you target our civilians, we'll do the same." And Israel has a history of using "collective punishment," by destroying houses of entire families who had the misfortune to be related to a suicide bomber.
But just because the current Likud party and "settlers" violate international law with collective punishment and "appropriating" land in the west bank, is not logically or morally a reason to lie about the holocaust. Rather, I'd think the points about the current actions of Israel can be better illuminated by comparing them to exactly what the Nazis did in appropriated Jewish property.
no---the fact that UN schools were hit does not "tell" me that they were targeting
civilians----it tells me that they had information that the schools contained terrorists
and munitions or were being used as fortresses. Destroying houses or expropriating
houses used in crime----is also possible under law in the USA----despite its effect on
innocent parties. Land appropriated in the west bank is done so with a legal proceeding.
The fact is that the jewish land trust does OWN land by purchase on the west bank and
never sold it. In order to claim that they simply APPROPRIATE land ----OWNED by
arabs----you need to find some evidence thereof. There is no comparison to that which
your fellow Nazis did in Germany. can you define "CIVILIAN" as it pertains to the
residents of Gaza?. I might remind you that those girls who tied bombs on their asses---were
not "active duty" navy---or army---or marine---or even coast guard
Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)
"
The US forces found hundreds of dead in Mauthausen.
On August 8 1938, Himmler ordered a couple of hundred prisoners from the Dachau camp to be transported to the little town of Mauthausen just outside Linz. The plan was to build a new camp in order to supply slave labor for the Wiener Graben stone quarry. Until 1939, most of the prisoners were put to work building the camp and the living quarters for the SS. The main camp of Mauthausen consisted of 32 barracks surrounded by electrified barbed wire, high stone walls, and watch towers. Due to the immense number of prisoners that poured into the camp, Commandant Ziereis ordered that the fields to the north and west were to be ringed with wire. Here, Hungarian Jews and Russian soldiers, mostly, were kept in the open, all year around......"
Penelope, if you believe this account is NOT factual, you need to give us the reasons for your claim that it is in error. What facts are not being reported accurately?
How do you presume to know that this eyewitness' account is not accurate?
"An eyewitness report from Olga Wormser can perhaps give a hint of the life in the quarries: " Eighty-seven Dutch Jews were sent to the quarries separated from all the other prisoners. There they encountered the effeminate SS men known as "Hans" and "The blond Damsel". These two with pick handles in hand flailed into this pathetic group who were digging in the mountainside. By eleven-thirty, 47 of the 87 lay dead on the ground. They were butchered, one after another, before the eyes of fellow prisoners helpless to do anything. That afternoon, four more were killed. They were taken to the cliff top and told to fight. When two dropped to the rocks below, the victors would go free. Two dropped, but the victors were immediately pushed to join them."
How do you explain these accounts?
"Another killing method, favored by the SS during the winter season, was to gather a group of prisoners in the garage yard and order them to undress. A guard then sprayed water over the group which was left to freeze to death. This was quite effective in a region where the winter temperature usually was around minus 10 degrees Celsius.
If possible, the Gusen complex was considered as even a worse fate than Mauthausen. Here the death toll was so high that each barrack was divided in an "A" and "B" part ("Stube A, Stube B"). The sick, wounded or those too weak to work were hurled in the Stube B. Here, covered in their own excrement and those of others, they lay on the ground or upon others, wherever they were flung, and left to die. No food or water reached the Stube B."
I take it Olga is a woman, how would she know what went on up there, was she working in the quarry?
Also Franz Ziereis, sure could remember an awful lot of his death bed.
I believe many were worked to death, I believe many died to starvation and work, and I do wonder why this is a trial for Guido Schmidt who was acquitted ? Why was the trial for him?
I will say I'm sure some of the guards were ruthless, as some of the American ones were as well.
The numbers are made up I feel, and no I have to wonder how Olga knew all this stuff by number. Did she just sit there and watch all this stuff, and why did she survive. Was she in a man's camp?
There are literally hundreds of accounts including testimony in courts - none ever recanted, none complained of coercion, many testified mutliple times. Are you going to say they all were false?
Once you sold it as SHOAH, you made it a strictly Jewish experience, minimizing purposefully, the deaths of the non Jews.
Why does it bother you so much? I really don't understand.
Nobody is forcing you to read and believe nothing. Nobody is forcing you to accept any figure. But the fact is there was a Holocaust, and millions of Jews did perish.
One thing I notice about Holocaust deniers is that they are also Jew haters. Coincidence?
Ask yourself this Pennywise: if the Holocaust was something that happened to Christians instead of Jews, do you think there would be all of this hassle of 'the 6 million figure is a lie!' And all these other conspiracy theories about it?
You know why , it diminishes the suffering of everyone else and their families who were involved in WWII. It was a "World War" not a jew and Nazi war.
That is why. Life does not evolve around the jews or Israel. How about what they did to the German people and country, not once but twice and they are still paying for it. Horrible
There were many millions of Christians who died in WWII, and well we never hear about them. Over 65 mil people died.
Well they did target UN schools, despite having had GPS coordinates. If that doesn't tell you the IDF was trying to send a message of "you target our civilians, we'll do the same." And Israel has a history of using "collective punishment," by destroying houses of entire families who had the misfortune to be related to a suicide bomber.
But just because the current Likud party and "settlers" violate international law with collective punishment and "appropriating" land in the west bank, is not logically or morally a reason to lie about the holocaust. Rather, I'd think the points about the current actions of Israel can be better illuminated by comparing them to exactly what the Nazis did in appropriated Jewish property.
no---the fact that UN schools were hit does not "tell" me that they were targeting
civilians----it tells me that they had information that the schools contained terrorists
and munitions or were being used as fortresses. Destroying houses or expropriating
houses used in crime----is also possible under law in the USA----despite its effect on
innocent parties. Land appropriated in the west bank is done so with a legal proceeding.
The fact is that the jewish land trust does OWN land by purchase on the west bank and
never sold it. In order to claim that they simply APPROPRIATE land ----OWNED by
arabs----you need to find some evidence thereof. There is no comparison to that which
your fellow Nazis did in Germany. can you define "CIVILIAN" as it pertains to the
residents of Gaza?. I might remind you that those girls who tied bombs on their asses---were
not "active duty" navy---or army---or marine---or even coast guard
Israelis can buy it, but that ain't all that's happening. And intl law is not violated because you say so when the western world disagrees.
I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.
since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.
I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.
Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)
"
The US forces found hundreds of dead in Mauthausen.
On August 8 1938, Himmler ordered a couple of hundred prisoners from the Dachau camp to be transported to the little town of Mauthausen just outside Linz. The plan was to build a new camp in order to supply slave labor for the Wiener Graben stone quarry. Until 1939, most of the prisoners were put to work building the camp and the living quarters for the SS. The main camp of Mauthausen consisted of 32 barracks surrounded by electrified barbed wire, high stone walls, and watch towers. Due to the immense number of prisoners that poured into the camp, Commandant Ziereis ordered that the fields to the north and west were to be ringed with wire. Here, Hungarian Jews and Russian soldiers, mostly, were kept in the open, all year around......"
Penelope, if you believe this account is NOT factual, you need to give us the reasons for your claim that it is in error. What facts are not being reported accurately?
How do you presume to know that this eyewitness' account is not accurate?
"An eyewitness report from Olga Wormser can perhaps give a hint of the life in the quarries: " Eighty-seven Dutch Jews were sent to the quarries separated from all the other prisoners. There they encountered the effeminate SS men known as "Hans" and "The blond Damsel". These two with pick handles in hand flailed into this pathetic group who were digging in the mountainside. By eleven-thirty, 47 of the 87 lay dead on the ground. They were butchered, one after another, before the eyes of fellow prisoners helpless to do anything. That afternoon, four more were killed. They were taken to the cliff top and told to fight. When two dropped to the rocks below, the victors would go free. Two dropped, but the victors were immediately pushed to join them."
How do you explain these accounts?
"Another killing method, favored by the SS during the winter season, was to gather a group of prisoners in the garage yard and order them to undress. A guard then sprayed water over the group which was left to freeze to death. This was quite effective in a region where the winter temperature usually was around minus 10 degrees Celsius.
If possible, the Gusen complex was considered as even a worse fate than Mauthausen. Here the death toll was so high that each barrack was divided in an "A" and "B" part ("Stube A, Stube B"). The sick, wounded or those too weak to work were hurled in the Stube B. Here, covered in their own excrement and those of others, they lay on the ground or upon others, wherever they were flung, and left to die. No food or water reached the Stube B."
I take it Olga is a woman, how would she know what went on up there, was she working in the quarry?
Also Franz Ziereis, sure could remember an awful lot of his death bed.
I believe many were worked to death, I believe many died to starvation and work, and I do wonder why this is a trial for Guido Schmidt who was acquitted ? Why was the trial for him?
I will say I'm sure some of the guards were ruthless, as some of the American ones were as well.
The numbers are made up I feel, and no I have to wonder how Olga knew all this stuff by number. Did she just sit there and watch all this stuff, and why did she survive. Was she in a man's camp?
The number for Auschwitz has been revised downward, by a huge amount. I don't whether or not the author used a pen name, but if that is the case, it doesn't take threat of prison to ruin a man's life, and the only group more vindictive against anyone THEY perceive as an enemy other than homosexuals, is Jews. the ADL and SPLC will seek to destroy anyone who does not tow the line.
I am fascinated----how do the jews go about "destroying" people? can you provide
examples of this singular ability to DESTROY? Long ago I lived in a place -----
where a nearby river, now and then, gave up body parts. On investigation----they
turned out to be the fragments of persons shot, weighted and and dumped in the nearby
river. ---MAFIA . How do the jews go about it?
they point a finger and death ray comes out?
