Holocaust deniers

[irosie91]

Hitler wanted the Jews expelled from the whole of Europe so he could build his "Thousand Year Reich", but no countries would take them, so he treated them (and millions of non Jews) like subhumans and lost no sleep over their suffering and deaths.

Where it gets murky (and highly suspect) is the issue of numbers of dead, methods of death, motivations, etc.

I watched another "holocaust" show on Netflix about an American soldiers who ended up POWs and put in a camp with European Jews and others. Some real tear-jerking stuff seeing these (still living) American Vets and their memories. I welled up more than once. But that's war. War is Hell. I saw nothing in that program any worse than what was done by Russians or Japanese in WW2. Savagery is a tool of war, it's not unique to "the holocaust".

so? I am fascinated with people who are FASCINATED with being annoyed about
being "EXPOSED" to the fact that jews are interested in the fact that jews
were murdered in the millions-------AFTERALL-----"there were lots of other genocides"---
they whine YUP there were. Is someone FORCING you to take part in
this discussion? I am a jew-----Lots of my family died over there----it interests
me that lots of my family died over there---------you need not be interested at all.
I did not arrive in the USA on the MAYFLOWER----nor any of my relatives------I never
complained about learning about PLYMOUTH ROCK in school------but -----I could have
and I would not blame anyone who complains "I AM NOT INTERESTED IN
PLYMOUTH ROCK" As a kid----I hated baseball-----ie on TV and Radio----
I could not avoid it------I had four brothers. I tolerated it and rarely actually
complained

 

[Ropey]

The reason I'm so pissed off lately is because of all the death & destruction there.

Now there's not so much in Israel and the Hamas are setting their own up for death. So, why am I so angry?

Because Hamas are setting up their innocents to be used as canon fodder and these deaths hurt enough to piss me right the fuck off.

I see the moral dilemma. I feel it. I separate from it, but it's there.

Then I see people arguing about why Israel should be allowed to be so good at defending themselves from a consistent bombardment.

 

[irosie91]

Ask Dr Kevin MacDonald.

what is his specialty?-------is he a potential target of destruction? I do not know
Kevin------but his name does seem a bit familiar-------is the DESTRUCTION thing
so complex that you cannot explain it -------try a whole paragraph

 

[MHunterB]

"Looks like you're wasting your time, she can't be taught because she's too stupid to learn."

@ Discombobulated: No, I don't think that 'Penelope' is too stupid to learn. I do question why she as a Christian apparently feels OK describing other human beings made in the Image of GOD as 'an infestation'. That doesn't match at all with anything I've heard while attending service or Mass at RC or Episcopal or Methodist churches with family members: in fact, it's an extreme contradiction to the Christianity I was taught : ((

 

[LiberalMedia]

The so called "Holocaust" is the only historical event that people are not allowed to debate in several western countries under threat of heavy fines and imprisonment.

Which begs the question: "What are the authorities trying to hide?" .....

Your bigotry, from civilized society.

Why would they bother to do that ?

Because words have meaning, conservatard, and left unchecked, hate speech can turn into hate crimes, which turns into yet another Holocaust. Is that what you want--another six million dead Jews?

 

[irosie91]

oh HIM!!!

 

[dilloduck]

Your bigotry, from civilized society.

Why would they bother to do that ?

Because words have meaning, conservatard, and left unchecked, hate speech can turn into hate crimes, which turns into yet another Holocaust. Is that what you want--another six million dead Jews?

ahh the old magical talking argument. Let's all say "money" at the same time and we will all get rich !!!!

 

[irosie91]

I know history. I pay attention to current events. It is almost as if Germans have a hate and bloodlust gene that they can't shut off. We need to pay attention to Germany or there will be another holocaust type event. You can see the mood brewing in Germany, you should pay attention.

Yes I do as well, every day, and no I know people stationed in Germany from the states and they love it there. Germany has been a good country. If there is a problem with it its probably due to Zionist infestation.

"infestation"? creepy. Where is this infestation occurring?

I take SERIOUS exception to that "hate and bloodlust gene" you theorize----bendog. The "ethos"
of all nations-------is passed on ---generation to generation by MOM (and grandma---read Fromm and
Erik Erikson-----uhm 'childhood and society' <<< the standards of soc 101 classes) I do have a sense that Germans and those people UP NORTH---developed societies dominated by a need to DOMINATE lots of them were hit and run-----raiders. The lifestyle made them value
a MILITANT approach and----highly structured approach-----BUT IT IS NOT A GENE-----it is
mothers' milk----ethos.

Zionist infestation? whatsdat? the phrase reminds me of the Nazi propaganda I read
as a child -------before 1960 (little child----I was reading superman comics back then too---
the superman comics seemed a lot more realistic----and logical---in fact as an adult I have come
to appreciate their LITERARY VALUE)

 

[Coyote]

Ok...so getting back to the Holocaust - no one seems to have actually disproved all the testimonies of people who witnessed people being killed (as opposed to "dying"). Not to mention the existence - not implicit but directly addressed - of Gas Wagons, which were the precursor to Gas Chambers.

 

[SAYIT]

90% of the Jews in Poland were exterminated, and Poland was a country with a pretty significant Jewish minority.

deaths under the German occupation at 5,470,000 to 5,670,000, half of whom were Jewish.

what is the racial, religious, ethnic, etc breakdown of the OTHER half who died ?

I'm not disputing that and all the deaths should be remembered. But I think it's important to also think in terms of percentages of populations as well when you are talking about genocide. It brings meaning to scale: Was the Holocaust Only Against Jews?

A far higher percentage of Jews were lost than that of their non-Jewish counterparts in all other groups. While 90% of Poland's Jewish population was decimated, 94% of Polish Christians survived. Close to 60% of Europe's total Jewish population was murdered, while the millions of Russians deaths represented 15% of their population. A large number of Poles and Russians were killed during the German Army's invasion and occupation of their lands, and many Russian soldiers died in captivity in violation of international conventions. It would seem inaccurate to classify these dead as Holocaust victims, although racism was undeniably a factor in the treatment they received.

But, I agree - the others are frequently overlooked (from the same source)

2 million ethnic Poles
6 million Soviet citizens
2 million Soviet POW's
1.5 million Gypsies
200,000 handicapped and mentally retarded Germans
5,000 – 15,000 homosexuals

The bottom line: The Nazis were barbaric clods and Holocaust Deniers here are even lower.

 

[Nutz]

deaths under the German occupation at 5,470,000 to 5,670,000, half of whom were Jewish.

what is the racial, religious, ethnic, etc breakdown of the OTHER half who died ?

I'm not disputing that and all the deaths should be remembered. But I think it's important to also think in terms of percentages of populations as well when you are talking about genocide. It brings meaning to scale: Was the Holocaust Only Against Jews?

A far higher percentage of Jews were lost than that of their non-Jewish counterparts in all other groups. While 90% of Poland's Jewish population was decimated, 94% of Polish Christians survived. Close to 60% of Europe's total Jewish population was murdered, while the millions of Russians deaths represented 15% of their population. A large number of Poles and Russians were killed during the German Army's invasion and occupation of their lands, and many Russian soldiers died in captivity in violation of international conventions. It would seem inaccurate to classify these dead as Holocaust victims, although racism was undeniably a factor in the treatment they received.

But, I agree - the others are frequently overlooked (from the same source)

2 million ethnic Poles
6 million Soviet citizens
2 million Soviet POW's
1.5 million Gypsies
200,000 handicapped and mentally retarded Germans
5,000 &#8211; 15,000 homosexuals

The bottom line: The Nazis were barbaric clods and Holocaust Deniers here are even lower.

Again with the removal of Germany from the atrocities they committed. The deniers have already won...you don't blame Germans and Germany for their bloodlust...you blame the mystical Nazi that only existed for a brief moment in history and are forever gone.

Holocaust deniers win! Germany has been taken out of the equation.

 

[Pennywise]

I'm not disputing that and all the deaths should be remembered. But I think it's important to also think in terms of percentages of populations as well when you are talking about genocide. It brings meaning to scale: Was the Holocaust Only Against Jews?




But, I agree - the others are frequently overlooked (from the same source)

2 million ethnic Poles
6 million Soviet citizens
2 million Soviet POW's
1.5 million Gypsies
200,000 handicapped and mentally retarded Germans
5,000 – 15,000 homosexuals

The bottom line: The Nazis were barbaric clods and Holocaust Deniers here are even lower.

Again with the removal of Germany from the atrocities they committed. The deniers have already one...you don't blame Germans and Germany for their bloodlust...you blame the mystical Nazi that only existed for a brief moment in history and are forever gone.

Holocaust deniers win! Germany has been taken out of the equation.

So you define all Cambodians as accomplices to the crimes of Pol Pot?

 

[Nutz]

The bottom line: The Nazis were barbaric clods and Holocaust Deniers here are even lower.

Again with the removal of Germany from the atrocities they committed. The deniers have already one...you don't blame Germans and Germany for their bloodlust...you blame the mystical Nazi that only existed for a brief moment in history and are forever gone.

Holocaust deniers win! Germany has been taken out of the equation.

So you define all Cambodians as accomplices to the crimes of Pol Pot?

They had their moment in history. Nonetheless, it no way compares to the history of hate and bloodlust brought about by German heathens.

 

[Pennywise]

Again with the removal of Germany from the atrocities they committed. The deniers have already one...you don't blame Germans and Germany for their bloodlust...you blame the mystical Nazi that only existed for a brief moment in history and are forever gone.

Holocaust deniers win! Germany has been taken out of the equation.

So you define all Cambodians as accomplices to the crimes of Pol Pot?

They had their moment in history. Nonetheless, it no way compares to the history of hate and bloodlust brought about by German heathens.

So you define all Russians based on the actions of Stalin and his army?

 

[Nutz]

So you define all Cambodians as accomplices to the crimes of Pol Pot?

They had their moment in history. Nonetheless, it no way compares to the history of hate and bloodlust brought about by German heathens.

So you define all Russians based on the actions of Stalin and his army?

Unlike the average Teaper...I am no fan of Russia and Putin. But, as I continually state...there is no comparison to the pure hell Germany has created on this earth throughout history. There is no comparison. They have a mutant hate and violence gene or something - their history of hate and bloodlust is astonishing. Nope, again, no comparison.

 

[Penelope]

Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)

"

The US forces found hundreds of dead in Mauthausen.


On August 8 1938, Himmler ordered a couple of hundred prisoners from the Dachau camp to be transported to the little town of Mauthausen just outside Linz. The plan was to build a new camp in order to supply slave labor for the Wiener Graben stone quarry. Until 1939, most of the prisoners were put to work building the camp and the living quarters for the SS. The main camp of Mauthausen consisted of 32 barracks surrounded by electrified barbed wire, high stone walls, and watch towers. Due to the immense number of prisoners that poured into the camp, Commandant Ziereis ordered that the fields to the north and west were to be ringed with wire. Here, Hungarian Jews and Russian soldiers, mostly, were kept in the open, all year around......"


Penelope, if you believe this account is NOT factual, you need to give us the reasons for your claim that it is in error. What facts are not being reported accurately?

How do you presume to know that this eyewitness' account is not accurate?

"An eyewitness report from Olga Wormser can perhaps give a hint of the life in the quarries: " Eighty-seven Dutch Jews were sent to the quarries separated from all the other prisoners. There they encountered the effeminate SS men known as "Hans" and "The blond Damsel". These two with pick handles in hand flailed into this pathetic group who were digging in the mountainside. By eleven-thirty, 47 of the 87 lay dead on the ground. They were butchered, one after another, before the eyes of fellow prisoners helpless to do anything. That afternoon, four more were killed. They were taken to the cliff top and told to fight. When two dropped to the rocks below, the victors would go free. Two dropped, but the victors were immediately pushed to join them."

How do you explain these accounts?

"Another killing method, favored by the SS during the winter season, was to gather a group of prisoners in the garage yard and order them to undress. A guard then sprayed water over the group which was left to freeze to death. This was quite effective in a region where the winter temperature usually was around minus 10 degrees Celsius.

If possible, the Gusen complex was considered as even a worse fate than Mauthausen. Here the death toll was so high that each barrack was divided in an "A" and "B" part ("Stube A, Stube B"). The sick, wounded or those too weak to work were hurled in the Stube B. Here, covered in their own excrement and those of others, they lay on the ground or upon others, wherever they were flung, and left to die. No food or water reached the Stube B."

I take it Olga is a woman, how would she know what went on up there, was she working in the quarry?

Also Franz Ziereis, sure could remember an awful lot of his death bed.

I believe many were worked to death, I believe many died to starvation and work, and I do wonder why this is a trial for Guido Schmidt who was acquitted ? Why was the trial for him?

I will say I'm sure some of the guards were ruthless, as some of the American ones were as well.

The numbers are made up I feel, and no I have to wonder how Olga knew all this stuff by number. Did she just sit there and watch all this stuff, and why did she survive. Was she in a man's camp?

Olga Wormser was a French historian and teacher who was sent in 1944 by the Vichy government to lead their investigation of the concentration camps - she worked for the Ministry of Prisoners, Deportees and Refugees. So she was neither 'inmate' nor 'staff' bnut an observer.

Wormser was one of the first historians in France to study the actions of the Nazi regime and their concentration camp system. She did her thesis (PhD in History) on the topic.


Now, Penelope: I keep asking you for FACTS, and you keep replying in terms of 'feeling' and 'belief'. A person's "feeeeeeewings" have no truth value whatsoever. In order to assess the truthfulness of some conclusion - which 'beliefs' and 'feelings' represent - there need to be facts involved.

I've given you plenty you don't read them. So the Nazi's let her in to observe this inhuman treatment. I see.

 

[MHunterB]

I take it Olga is a woman, how would she know what went on up there, was she working in the quarry?

Also Franz Ziereis, sure could remember an awful lot of his death bed.

I believe many were worked to death, I believe many died to starvation and work, and I do wonder why this is a trial for Guido Schmidt who was acquitted ? Why was the trial for him?

I will say I'm sure some of the guards were ruthless, as some of the American ones were as well.

The numbers are made up I feel, and no I have to wonder how Olga knew all this stuff by number. Did she just sit there and watch all this stuff, and why did she survive. Was she in a man's camp?

Olga Wormser was a French historian and teacher who was sent in 1944 by the Vichy government to lead their investigation of the concentration camps - she worked for the Ministry of Prisoners, Deportees and Refugees. So she was neither 'inmate' nor 'staff' bnut an observer.

Wormser was one of the first historians in France to study the actions of the Nazi regime and their concentration camp system. She did her thesis (PhD in History) on the topic.


Now, Penelope: I keep asking you for FACTS, and you keep replying in terms of 'feeling' and 'belief'. A person's "feeeeeeewings" have no truth value whatsoever. In order to assess the truthfulness of some conclusion - which 'beliefs' and 'feelings' represent - there need to be facts involved.

I've given you plenty you don't read them. So the Nazi's let her in to observe this inhuman treatment. I see.

She was a representative of the Vichy government, which the Nazis considered an ally. It's not all that unusual. And of course the official Nazi government had removed from Jews in any land it controlled ANY protections of civil laws, any 'civil rights'. The Jews of course were reclassified as 'nonpersons, their citizenship revoked.

 

[MHunterB]

Why would they bother to do that ?

Because words have meaning, conservatard, and left unchecked, hate speech can turn into hate crimes, which turns into yet another Holocaust. Is that what you want--another six million dead Jews?

ahh the old magical talking argument. Let's all say "money" at the same time and we will all get rich !!!!

[MENTION=1324]dilloduck[/MENTION] - Have you actually missed the posts on this very thread where one poster has spoken in support of Hitler's treatment of the Jews, and suggested that the US should do the very same?

 

[Discombobulated]

I take it Olga is a woman, how would she know what went on up there, was she working in the quarry?

Also Franz Ziereis, sure could remember an awful lot of his death bed.

I believe many were worked to death, I believe many died to starvation and work, and I do wonder why this is a trial for Guido Schmidt who was acquitted ? Why was the trial for him?

I will say I'm sure some of the guards were ruthless, as some of the American ones were as well.

The numbers are made up I feel, and no I have to wonder how Olga knew all this stuff by number. Did she just sit there and watch all this stuff, and why did she survive. Was she in a man's camp?

Olga Wormser was a French historian and teacher who was sent in 1944 by the Vichy government to lead their investigation of the concentration camps - she worked for the Ministry of Prisoners, Deportees and Refugees. So she was neither 'inmate' nor 'staff' bnut an observer.

Wormser was one of the first historians in France to study the actions of the Nazi regime and their concentration camp system. She did her thesis (PhD in History) on the topic.


Now, Penelope: I keep asking you for FACTS, and you keep replying in terms of 'feeling' and 'belief'. A person's "feeeeeeewings" have no truth value whatsoever. In order to assess the truthfulness of some conclusion - which 'beliefs' and 'feelings' represent - there need to be facts involved.

I've given you plenty you don't read them. So the Nazi's let her in to observe this inhuman treatment. I see.

You apparently don't even begin to know what an actual fact looks like. Try reading some historians who write books instead of just blogs.

 

[Discombobulated]

Why would they bother to do that ?

Because words have meaning, conservatard, and left unchecked, hate speech can turn into hate crimes, which turns into yet another Holocaust. Is that what you want--another six million dead Jews?

ahh the old magical talking argument. Let's all say "money" at the same time and we will all get rich !!!!

And maybe if we all say that you're smart it will come true.