Holocaust deniers

[Coyote]

Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...

I think there are enough indirect references to make sound logical conclusions

anyway...his diary isn't the only source of gaseous behavior.

 

[Discombobulated]

Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...

I have to agree.

Schach reported to me on questions regarding the gau of Berlin. We must deal again with the Jewish problem. There are still 40,000 Jews in Berlin and despite the heavy blows dealt them they are still insolent and aggressive. It is exceedingly difficult to shove them off to the East because a large part of them are at work in the munitions industry and because the Jews are to be evacuated only by families.

I take liquidated as who cares about evacuation by families anymore, we need to get rid of them anyway we can, to where ever we can. I never get the impression of killing them.

If anything that diary does not more than to show Hitler thought the protocols of Zion were real, also that we can't leave them to the Soviets.

Speaks rather in favor of the Germans and their real concern and fear of the Jewish people.

Do you mischaracterize and distort history just for fun? Because I'm having an awfully good time laughing at your idiotic remarks. You provide plenty of cheap entertainment.

 

[Coyote]

Perhaps this was the holocaust. The Dresden bombings, the whole town ablaze, they used HIGH explosives bombs.

The soviets were coming from the east, we are told in many reports whoever survived followed the Germans for fear of the Soviets, so Churchill goes and bombs ahead of the Soviets. Germany claimed around 200,000 people died, but that was just "propaganda"

What do you think?

Bombing of Dresden in World War II Bombing of Dresden in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

of the Second World War in the European Theatre. In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 722 heavy bombers of the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city.[1] The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[2] Between 22,700 and 25,000 people were killed


A Dresden police report written shortly after the attacks reported that the old town and the inner eastern suburbs had been engulfed in a single fire that had destroyed almost 12,000 dwellings.[78] The same report said that the raids had destroyed 24 banks, 26 insurance buildings, 31 stores and retail houses, 640 shops, 64 warehouses, 2 market halls, 31 large hotels, 26 public houses, 63 administrative buildings, 3 theatres, 18 cinemas, 11 churches, 6 chapels; 5 other cultural buildings, 19 hospitals including auxiliary, overflow hospitals, and private clinics, 39 schools, 5 consulates, the zoo, the waterworks, the railways, 19 postal facilities, 4 tram facilities, and 19 ships and barges. The Wehrmacht's main command post in the Taschenbergpalais, 19 military hospitals and a number of less significant military facilities were also destroyed.[78] Almost 200 factories were damaged, 136 seriously damaged (including several of the Zeiss Ikon precision optical engineering works), 28 with medium to serious damage, and 35 with light damage.[79]An RAF assessment showed that 23 percent of the industrial buildings, and 56 percent of the non-industrial buildings, not counting residential buildings, had been seriously damaged. Around 78,000 dwellings had been completely destroyed; 27,700 were uninhabitable, and 64,500 damaged, but readily repairable

To my left I suddenly see a woman. I can see her to this day and shall never forget it. She carries a bundle in her arms. It is a baby. She runs, she falls, and the child flies in an arc into the fire.
Suddenly, I saw people again, right in front of me. They scream and gesticulate with their hands, and then—to my utter horror and amazement—I see how one after the other they simply seem to let themselves drop to the ground. (Today I know that these unfortunate people were the victims of lack of oxygen). They fainted and then burnt to cinders.
Insane fear grips me and from then on I repeat one simple sentence to myself continuously: "I don't want to burn to death". I do not know how many people I fell over. I know only one thing: that I must not burn.
— Margaret Freyer, survivor

Dresdon isn't genocide.

War involves a lot of atrocities and, if you want to discuss WW2 in a broader way outside of the Holocaust - it might be better in it's own thread - as it's a pretty complicated historical topic.

 

[Discombobulated]

Read the user name of the moron with whom you are chatting. You are better off banging your head into a concrete curb.

Try reading post #373.....that is if you are at all inclined to do any actual reading. You should take comfort in the fact that it's presented through a web site, a format you can understand.

already dragging out the insults ? How come you can't do this without the insults ?

Are you kidding? I'm humoring you people. That's about as good as Holocaust deniers should expect from normal people.

 

[Coyote]

I guess you would have to ask the folks who were in charge of record keeping.

Do you ever say anything that makes any sense?

If it did matter wouldn't the Germans have kept records ?

There were records - letters etc discussing it.

 

[dilloduck]

The so called "Holocaust" is the only historical event that people are not allowed to debate in several western countries under threat of heavy fines and imprisonment.

Which begs the question: "What are the authorities trying to hide?" .....

Your bigotry, from civilized society.

Why would they bother to do that ?

 

[dilloduck]

90% of the Jews in Poland were exterminated, and Poland was a country with a pretty significant Jewish minority.

deaths under the German occupation at 5,470,000 to 5,670,000, half of whom were Jewish.

what is the racial, religious, ethnic, etc breakdown of the OTHER half who died ?

bump

 

[Pennywise]

Hitler wanted the Jews expelled from the whole of Europe so he could build his "Thousand Year Reich", but no countries would take them, so he treated them (and millions of non Jews) like subhumans and lost no sleep over their suffering and deaths.

Where it gets murky (and highly suspect) is the issue of numbers of dead, methods of death, motivations, etc.

I watched another "holocaust" show on Netflix about an American soldiers who ended up POWs and put in a camp with European Jews and others. Some real tear-jerking stuff seeing these (still living) American Vets and their memories. I welled up more than once. But that's war. War is Hell. I saw nothing in that program any worse than what was done by Russians or Japanese in WW2. Savagery is a tool of war, it's not unique to "the holocaust".

 

[Coyote]

Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...

I have to agree.

Schach reported to me on questions regarding the gau of Berlin. We must deal again with the Jewish problem. There are still 40,000 Jews in Berlin and despite the heavy blows dealt them they are still insolent and aggressive. It is exceedingly difficult to shove them off to the East because a large part of them are at work in the munitions industry and because the Jews are to be evacuated only by families.

I take liquidated as who cares about evacuation by families anymore, we need to get rid of them anyway we can, to where ever we can. I never get the impression of killing them.

If anything that diary does not more than to show Hitler thought the protocols of Zion were real, also that we can't leave them to the Soviets.

Speaks rather in favor of the Germans and their real concern and fear of the Jewish people.

Wow....talk about a novel and creative approach to "liquidated".


"The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor."

of course....some were simply shot, and there were the well documented and described "gassing vans" that helped them evacuate families. Very caring I suppose.




liq·ui·date
[lik-wi-deyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), liq·ui·dat·ed, liq·ui·dat·ing.
1.
to settle or pay (a debt): to liquidate a claim.
2.
to reduce (accounts) to order; determine the amount of (indebtedness or damages).
3.
to convert (inventory, securities, or other assets) into cash.
4.
to get rid of, especially by killing: to liquidate the enemies of the regime.
5.
to break up or do away with: to liquidate a partnership.

 

[Discombobulated]

Do you ever say anything that makes any sense?

If it did matter wouldn't the Germans have kept records ?

There were records - letters etc discussing it.

It might be interesting if Holocaust deniers could ever come up with any actual evidence to support their idiotic theories.

 

[Coyote]

90% of the Jews in Poland were exterminated, and Poland was a country with a pretty significant Jewish minority.

deaths under the German occupation at 5,470,000 to 5,670,000, half of whom were Jewish.

what is the racial, religious, ethnic, etc breakdown of the OTHER half who died ?

bump

http://www.usmessageboard.com/9583475-post374.html

 

[dilloduck]

The conception of Jewish exclusivity in the Holocaust went unchallenged in the early years of study on the subject. It is undeniable that the Jews suffered the greatest death toll, and entire communities were obliterated in Eastern Europe and to a great extent in western countries. The notion of exclusivity however is challenged by the existence of similar forces working against different social and ethnic groups such as homosexuals and the Roma, which resulted in the victimization and systematic destruction of homosexual lives and lifestyles, as well as those of the Roma. An inclusion of social groups in a definition of genocide would further challenge the notion of the Jewish genocide as unique within the context of the Holocaust. While statistically speaking Jew suffered much more at the hands of the Nazis, Ellie Weisel’s belief that “a focus on other victims may detract from the Judaic specificity of the Holocaust”[22] fosters a misrepresentation of history and devalues the suffering of other victims of Nazi atrocities. Simon Wiesenthal argues that “the Holocaust transcended the confines of Jewish community and that there were other victims.”[22] In the mid-1970s new discourses emerged that challenged the exclusivity of the Jewish genocide within the Holocaust, though not without great resistance.

Persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Discombobulated]

Hitler wanted the Jews expelled from the whole of Europe so he could build his "Thousand Year Reich", but no countries would take them, so he treated them (and millions of non Jews) like subhumans and lost no sleep over their suffering and deaths.

Where it gets murky (and highly suspect) is the issue of numbers of dead, methods of death, motivations, etc.

I watched another "holocaust" show on Netflix about an American soldiers who ended up POWs and put in a camp with European Jews and others. Some real tear-jerking stuff seeing these (still living) American Vets and their memories. I welled up more than once. But that's war. War is Hell. I saw nothing in that program any worse than what was done by Russians or Japanese in WW2. Savagery is a tool of war, it's not unique to "the holocaust".

No, you are completely wrong. There is no controversy about the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The only question about numbers is the estimates of the total number of people killed in situ by Einsatzgruppen and other SS units; if anything those numbers are too low, extremely conservative estimates.

 

[Pennywise]

Hitler wanted the Jews expelled from the whole of Europe so he could build his "Thousand Year Reich", but no countries would take them, so he treated them (and millions of non Jews) like subhumans and lost no sleep over their suffering and deaths.

Where it gets murky (and highly suspect) is the issue of numbers of dead, methods of death, motivations, etc.

I watched another "holocaust" show on Netflix about an American soldiers who ended up POWs and put in a camp with European Jews and others. Some real tear-jerking stuff seeing these (still living) American Vets and their memories. I welled up more than once. But that's war. War is Hell. I saw nothing in that program any worse than what was done by Russians or Japanese in WW2. Savagery is a tool of war, it's not unique to "the holocaust".

No, you are completely wrong. There is no controversy about the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The only question about numbers is the estimates of the total number of people killed in situ by Einsatzgruppen and other SS units; if anything those numbers are too low, extremely conservative estimates.

Then why are the numbers being reduced as to the claims?

Israeli Historians Welcome Revision Of Auschwitz Death Toll

 

[Penelope]

Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...

I think there are enough indirect references to make sound logical conclusions

anyway...his diary isn't the only source of gaseous behavior.

I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.

since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.

I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.

 

[Discombobulated]

Hitler wanted the Jews expelled from the whole of Europe so he could build his "Thousand Year Reich", but no countries would take them, so he treated them (and millions of non Jews) like subhumans and lost no sleep over their suffering and deaths.

Where it gets murky (and highly suspect) is the issue of numbers of dead, methods of death, motivations, etc.

I watched another "holocaust" show on Netflix about an American soldiers who ended up POWs and put in a camp with European Jews and others. Some real tear-jerking stuff seeing these (still living) American Vets and their memories. I welled up more than once. But that's war. War is Hell. I saw nothing in that program any worse than what was done by Russians or Japanese in WW2. Savagery is a tool of war, it's not unique to "the holocaust".

No, you are completely wrong. There is no controversy about the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The only question about numbers is the estimates of the total number of people killed in situ by Einsatzgruppen and other SS units; if anything those numbers are too low, extremely conservative estimates.

Then why are the numbers being reduced as to the claims?

Israeli Historians Welcome Revision Of Auschwitz Death Toll

Didn't read your own link did you.

 

[Discombobulated]

Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...

I think there are enough indirect references to make sound logical conclusions

anyway...his diary isn't the only source of gaseous behavior.

I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.

since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.

I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.

Delusional.

 

[Coyote]

Goebbel's diary make no mention of gas chambers or gassing. ...

I think there are enough indirect references to make sound logical conclusions

anyway...his diary isn't the only source of gaseous behavior.

I guess if you are preconditioned to believe in the holocaust , as we all were, I mean I did for what over 40 years, then possibly . But just the fact that they also want to protect them from Soviets in case of an invasion, I don't see it. Also liquidation , does not mean kill all the time , if one liquidates a business they sell parts of it to here or there.

I'm not "preconditioned to believe" as you say - but I am able to read and think critically, and draw conclusions from available evidence and I have enough of a scientific background to understand what constitutes evidence.

When you talk about liquidating people, and you compare that to what the Nazi's actually did - there is no question about what they meant. Your argument is very very thin.

since they thought of the island, with the first letter Mandascar (sp) and wanted to keep the families together, I get the impression, we can split them up , send a few here and there and not all to one place, and even split up families if need be.

I do not see premeditation to kill them but to get rid of them, by expelling. Even harsh treatment he said couldn't make them leave.

Some may have initially wanted to expel them - I've heard that. However, they eventually determined that would not get rid of the "problem" and, over and over you can see extortions to not be soft hearted and that brutal solutions would be needed. You seem to completely overlook that.

 

[MHunterB]

Pennywise, I think if you read the article carefully, you will find the answer to your question. I've bolded some of it to help......



Israeli Historians Welcome Revision Of Auschwitz Death Toll
KARIN LAUB, Associated Press
Jul. 18, 1990 4:50 AM ET


JERUSALEM (AP) _ An Israeli historian today welcomed Poland's decision to lower the official death toll at the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp from 4 million to under 2 million and acknowledge that most of the victims were Jews.


''It's a positive change that the Poles decided not to play politics with the victims anymore,'' said Shmuel Krakowski, head of the archives at the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem.


Krakowski said that until recently Poland had clung to the higher figure of 4 million victims, including more than 1 million non-Jews, to back claims that Poles and other gentiles suffered as much as Jews at the hands of the Nazis.


Revised findings by the Auschwitz State Museum said the number of victims in the Nazi death camp in southern Poland actually was 1.1 million to 1.5 million, the Polish newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza reported Tuesday.


Of that number, at least 960,000 were Jews.


The report cited by Gazeta Wyborcza is to be published next year by the state museum and Yad Vashem memorial. The paper said plaques carrying the inflated death toll have been removed from a memorial at the camp, the largest built by the Nazis.


Krakowski said the revised figures were in line with Yad Vashem estimates that fewer than 2 million people were killed in Auschwitz-Birkenau, among them up to 90 percent Jews.

''We always knew and published the right number,'' he said. ''The Poles didn't want to correct theirs until now because of political considerations.''


Krakowski said because Yad Vashem had always stuck to the lower figure, the new death toll out of Poland did not affect the total of 6 million Jews who perished in the Nazi Holocaust.


Of the 6 million, just under 4 million were gassed to death in Nazi death camps, the largest of which were located in Nazi-occupied Poland, including Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka and Majdanek.


Krakowski said the figure of 4 million victims at Auschwitz-Birkenau alone was first mentioned by Rudolf Hoess, the death camp commander, during his trial in Poland after World War II.


The figure was also cited by a Soviet commission that came to the camp in February 1945, one week after its liberation. It later submitted its findings to the Nuremberg war crimes trials.


Based on the numbering of inmates, letters linked to transports, and statistical lists made in Jewish ghettos, the number of victims that can be documented is 1.1 million, about 90 percent of whom were Jewish, Franciszek Piper, head of the Auschwitz State Museum's history department, said in an interview with Gazeta Wyborcza.


Poland has pressed the Soviets since the 1970s to grant historians access to World War II camp records, which were packed up and taken to the Soviet Union soon after the liberation, Piper said.


The Ministry of Culture of Poland's new Solidarity-led government has appointed a committee to review the state of the Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial and museum.


The review wants not only to repair the physical deterioration of the camps, but to correct exhibits dating from the 1950s that the ministry says distort history by concealing the main reason the camps existed was to exterminate Jews.

 

[Pennywise]

holocaust death toll revised - Bing Images

Notice they added "mainly jews" to the new plaque to appease the usual suspects.

This is "history"...