How close the real Confederacy came to the alt-left

[occupied]

Although the Alt-Right were quick to deny they existed and also quick to jump on the bandwagon attacking the Alt-Left, this Professor Guelzo's article wasn't the first time I've seen a learned person or the media use the term. It's just not as common as the Alt-Right.....maybe when the Alt-Left gets someone in the WH, we'll see it more often.

Meanwhile:
The Alt-Left Media: One More Sign People Are Looking For Echo Chambers
Today's divisive, partisan politics aren't simply weighted to one side. While the alt-right got a lot of attention in 2016, critics say the alt-left media also continues to peddle conspiracy theories and fake stories. But some experts say the existence of the alt-left is merely the symptom, not the illness as consumers look for stories that affirm their political beliefs....

I have studied the politics surrounding the civil war all my life. I was born and raised very near Montgomery Alabama and grew up immersed in the history. I have stood on the battlefields, read the books, and stood by the graves of my ancestors who died on both sides. You are totally screwing up trying to make direct comparisons between the politics of the day and what we have now. It's apples and oranges. If you just wanted to beat-up on liberals there are much less spurious methods than trying to make them like the confederates. The whole thing is silly. You should abandon this thread and forget you ever made it.

 

[Divine Wind]

Although the Alt-Right were quick to deny they existed and also quick to jump on the bandwagon attacking the Alt-Left, this Professor Guelzo's article wasn't the first time I've seen a learned person or the media use the term. It's just not as common as the Alt-Right.....maybe when the Alt-Left gets someone in the WH, we'll see it more often.

Meanwhile:
The Alt-Left Media: One More Sign People Are Looking For Echo Chambers
Today's divisive, partisan politics aren't simply weighted to one side. While the alt-right got a lot of attention in 2016, critics say the alt-left media also continues to peddle conspiracy theories and fake stories. But some experts say the existence of the alt-left is merely the symptom, not the illness as consumers look for stories that affirm their political beliefs....

I have studied the politics surrounding the civil war all my life. I was born and raised very near Montgomery Alabama and grew up immersed in the history. I have stood on the battlefields, read the books, and stood by the graves of my ancestors who died on both sides. You are totally screwing up trying to make direct comparisons between the politics of the day and what we have now. It's apples and oranges. If you just wanted to beat-up on liberals there are much less spurious methods than trying to make them like the confederates. The whole , thing is silly. You should abandon this thread and forget you ever made it.

TL;DR File a complaint with Professor Guelzo at the email address I posted earlier.

 

[occupied]

Although the Alt-Right were quick to deny they existed and also quick to jump on the bandwagon attacking the Alt-Left, this Professor Guelzo's article wasn't the first time I've seen a learned person or the media use the term. It's just not as common as the Alt-Right.....maybe when the Alt-Left gets someone in the WH, we'll see it more often.

Meanwhile:
The Alt-Left Media: One More Sign People Are Looking For Echo Chambers
Today's divisive, partisan politics aren't simply weighted to one side. While the alt-right got a lot of attention in 2016, critics say the alt-left media also continues to peddle conspiracy theories and fake stories. But some experts say the existence of the alt-left is merely the symptom, not the illness as consumers look for stories that affirm their political beliefs....

I have studied the politics surrounding the civil war all my life. I was born and raised very near Montgomery Alabama and grew up immersed in the history. I have stood on the battlefields, read the books, and stood by the graves of my ancestors who died on both sides. You are totally screwing up trying to make direct comparisons between the politics of the day and what we have now. It's apples and oranges. If you just wanted to beat-up on liberals there are much less spurious methods than trying to make them like the confederates. The whole , thing is silly. You should abandon this thread and forget you ever made it.

TL;DR File a complaint with Professor Guelzo at the email address I posted earlier.

I knew from the beginning you simply did not have the knowledge to defend this stupidity. He is not drawing a direct comparison to modern liberals, you are, and you don't seem to have the means to defend this notion.

 

[Dale Smith]

Although the Alt-Right were quick to deny they existed and also quick to jump on the bandwagon attacking the Alt-Left, this Professor Guelzo's article wasn't the first time I've seen a learned person or the media use the term. It's just not as common as the Alt-Right.....maybe when the Alt-Left gets someone in the WH, we'll see it more often.

Meanwhile:
The Alt-Left Media: One More Sign People Are Looking For Echo Chambers
Today's divisive, partisan politics aren't simply weighted to one side. While the alt-right got a lot of attention in 2016, critics say the alt-left media also continues to peddle conspiracy theories and fake stories. But some experts say the existence of the alt-left is merely the symptom, not the illness as consumers look for stories that affirm their political beliefs....

I have studied the politics surrounding the civil war all my life. I was born and raised very near Montgomery Alabama and grew up immersed in the history. I have stood on the battlefields, read the books, and stood by the graves of my ancestors who died on both sides. You are totally screwing up trying to make direct comparisons between the politics of the day and what we have now. It's apples and oranges. If you just wanted to beat-up on liberals there are much less spurious methods than trying to make them like the confederates. The whole , thing is silly. You should abandon this thread and forget you ever made it.

TL;DR File a complaint with Professor Guelzo at the email address I posted earlier.

I knew from the beginning you simply did not have the knowledge to defend this stupidity. He is not drawing a direct comparison to modern liberals, you are, and you don't seem to have the means to defend this notion.

Eugenicists like Margret Sanger (that met with the KKK) was a democrat....most eugenicists were far leftists.....fact.

 

[Dale Smith]

Trust me, those same Alt Right people that do Nazi salutes to honor Donald Trump ARE the confederates.

They would be insulted you ever suggested otherwise.

This thing is kind of bizarre and I was really hoping OP would do some explaining but it seems he posted it and then went to bed.

I took a shower. Something you should do.

OK I get it now, you are just a history retard who found an article you thought was smart (it's retarded).

No, but so far all you've done is troll.

If you have a problem with a Civil War Professor, try trolling him at Gettysburg

TL;DR The question of what would have happened if the South had successfully seceded is meaningless fantasy. HBO is making a show that is provocative for the sake of being provocative. That's all. Why this supposedly esteemed professor engaged in such a cheap flight of fancy is beyond me. The confederacy was doomed to fail, there is no realistic scenario that has the South win the war and remain stable through to the modern day.

You are wrong in one way and correct in another. The English had put an army on the border of Canada, France had put an army in Mexico. They were going to intervene on behalf of the south and once the north was defeated? France got back their lands due to the Louisiana Purchase and England would re-take the 13 original colonies. The Tsar of Russia intervened on Lincoln's behalf because of his desire to end slavery and brought in their navy and stationed them on the east and west coasts to keep England and France at bay. The Jesuits role in this? Here are Lincoln's own words.


"This war would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits. We owe it to Popery that we now see our land reddened with the blood of her noblest sons. Though there were great differences of opinion between the South and the North, on the question of slavery, neither Jeff Davis nor any one of the leading men of the Confederacy would have dared to attack the North, had they not relied on the promises of the Jesuits, that under the mask of Democracy, the money and the arms of the Roman Catholic, even the arms of France, were at their disposal, if they would attack us. I pity the priests, the bishops and the monks of Rome in the United States, when the people realize that they are, in great part, responsible for the tears and the blood shed in this war; the later the more terrible will the retribution be.

I conceal what I know, on that subject, from the knowledge of the nation; for if the people knew the whole truth, this war would turn into a religious war, and it would, at once, take a tenfold more savage and bloody character, it would become merciless as all religious wars are. It would become a war of extermination on both sides. The Protestants of both the North and the South would surely unite to exterminate the priests and the Jesuits, if they could hear what Professor Morse has said to me of the plots made in the very city of Rome to destroy this Republic, and if they could learn how the priests, the nuns, and the monks, which daily land on our shores, under the pretext of preaching their religion, instructing the people in their schools, taking care of the sick in the hospitals, are nothing else but the emissaries of the Pope, of Napoleon, and the other despots of Europe, to undermine our institutions, alienate the hearts of our people from our constitution, and our laws, destroy our schools, and prepare a reign of anarchy here as they have done in Ireland, in Mexico, in Spain, and wherever there are any people who want to be free, ect."

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

 

[Billy000]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

What a bunch of useless nonsense. Why would anyone care about this crap?

 

[Divine Wind]

Although the Alt-Right were quick to deny they existed and also quick to jump on the bandwagon attacking the Alt-Left, this Professor Guelzo's article wasn't the first time I've seen a learned person or the media use the term. It's just not as common as the Alt-Right.....maybe when the Alt-Left gets someone in the WH, we'll see it more often.

Meanwhile:
The Alt-Left Media: One More Sign People Are Looking For Echo Chambers
Today's divisive, partisan politics aren't simply weighted to one side. While the alt-right got a lot of attention in 2016, critics say the alt-left media also continues to peddle conspiracy theories and fake stories. But some experts say the existence of the alt-left is merely the symptom, not the illness as consumers look for stories that affirm their political beliefs....

I have studied the politics surrounding the civil war all my life. I was born and raised very near Montgomery Alabama and grew up immersed in the history. I have stood on the battlefields, read the books, and stood by the graves of my ancestors who died on both sides. You are totally screwing up trying to make direct comparisons between the politics of the day and what we have now. It's apples and oranges. If you just wanted to beat-up on liberals there are much less spurious methods than trying to make them like the confederates. The whole , thing is silly. You should abandon this thread and forget you ever made it.

TL;DR File a complaint with Professor Guelzo at the email address I posted earlier.

I knew from the beginning you simply did not have the knowledge to defend this stupidity. He is not drawing a direct comparison to modern liberals, you are, and you don't seem to have the means to defend this notion.

1) Name-calling. Check.
2) Trolling. Check.
3) Straw man argument. Check

Yep, you're a modern liberal!

First you pooh-poohed the entire idea. When it was pointed out to you that it wasn't my idea, but a Civil War College Professor, you focused on name-calling and straw man arguments. He's drawing a comparison between the CSA and the Alt-Left. Unfortunately, what passes for "modern liberalism" these days is Alt-Left. Yes, IMO. OTOH, what passes for "modern conservatism" these days is too often Alt-Right. We're in an era of political extremes. I'm hope this phase passes before I do. In the meantime, Professor Guelzo's article has caused me to rethink my past views on the CSA as a government.

 

[Divine Wind]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

What a bunch of useless nonsense. Why would anyone care about this crap?

It's much more intelligent and thoughtful than your trolling, Billy. Also, if it's so bad, why do you care to post here? Why throw gasoline on a fire you think shouldn't exist?

 

[Divine Wind]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

That's not what Professor Guelzo said, but thanks for the usual LW twist!

 

[The Original Tree]

Do you want to actually have a discussion about what might have been or do you just want a bunch of people to just swallow your assumptions whole? I like discussing the civil war but only if I am not wasting time with someone who really does not know anything about it.

No. I want a discussion on the similarities of the Old South structure of government and the idealistic structure of government of "modern Liberals". Frankly, I was a bit taken aback by the article since it revealed or explored areas I've never considered before.

Nowadays, myself included, think of the Confederacy as an expression of "State's Rights", but as the Professor's article points out, the CSA trampled all over state's rights just like the modern left. The elitism, the lacking of a strong Middle Class, something "modern Liberals" have been chipping away since the 1970s. Democrats used to be supportive of blue collar workers, the backbone of America, but nowadays, like the CSA, they only back the elite and throw just enough breadcrumbs to others to shut up opposition.

The Left practices Benevolent Paternalism, and there is no greater confirmation of "THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!" than the existence and pervasiveness of Liberals and Liberal Ideology in our society and government.

Whether they are owning slaves in THE US, Importing Illegal Slaves to work in their sweat shops and fields, or paying Slaves in other Countries to make products for them, or Creating a Politically Obedient and Unaware Leftist Slave Class through Entitlement Dependency, The Left NEVER STOPPED BEING SLAVE MASTERS.

"We endeavor to create a compliant and unaware citizenry"
Hillary Clinton

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

That's not what Professor Guelzo said, but thanks for the usual LW twist!

"The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner."

 

[gipper]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

WTF? Socialism is slavery, by another name. Of course, the elites do every well under socialism. Everyone else becomes a slave.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

WTF? Socialism is slavery, by another name. Of course, the elites do every well under socialism. Everyone else becomes a slave.

That's idiocy.

 

[gipper]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

WTF? Socialism is slavery, by another name. Of course, the elites do every well under socialism. Everyone else becomes a slave.

That's idiocy.

Clearly you do not understand what socialism in practice, looks like.

You might do some research on those nations that practice full blown socialism. Have you ever heard of the nation of Cuba? Start there....dummy.

 

[kwc57]

Trust me, those same Alt Right people that do Nazi salutes to honor Donald Trump ARE the confederates.

They would be insulted you ever suggested otherwise.

This thing is kind of bizarre and I was really hoping OP would do some explaining but it seems he posted it and then went to bed.

I took a shower. Something you should do.

OK I get it now, you are just a history retard who found an article you thought was smart (it's retarded).

It's ok to say it went over your head. You're the only one here who is impressed with your "superior intellect".

 

[The Original Tree]

The Left's Entire Philosophy is based on 3 things.

Globalism
Collectivism
Benevolent Paternalism

Everything they advocate, their every agenda, is to move us towards Global Socialism and a Borderless New World Order, where Individuals DO NOT HAVE Individual Rights, they only have privileges bestowed upon them by Their Government.

It is benevolent paternalism that is the vehicle that drives their agenda. It is the carrot they use to acquire THE STICK of Tyrannical Globalist Government.

Paternalism
Paternalism is behavior by an organization or state that limits some person or group's liberty or autonomy for what is presumed to be that person's or group's own good. Paternalism can also imply that the behavior is against or regardless of the will of a person, or also that the behavior expresses an attitude of superiority. Paternalism, paternalistic and paternalist have all been used as a pejorative.

Paternalism - Wikipedia


Benevolent Paternalism

The Outrage of Benevolent Paternalism | News | The Harvard Crimson

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

WTF? Socialism is slavery, by another name. Of course, the elites do every well under socialism. Everyone else becomes a slave.

That's idiocy.

Clearly you do not understand what socialism in practice, looks like.

You might do some research on those nations that practice full blown socialism. Have you ever heard of the nation of Cuba? Start there....dummy.

Socialism looks like the public school system. Or Medicaid. Or my town's highway department.

 

[Divine Wind]

There are a lot of places this thread could have been placed, but the quote below places it squarely in political current events :

"how close the real Confederacy also came to the fantasies of the alt-left"

As Professor Guelzo's article points out, the social structure of the Confederacy was highly stratified and more closely resembles the elitism and socialism of the Left Wing. Maybe it's a good thing Lincoln
did invade the South in the War of Northern Aggression!


What if the South had won the Civil War? 4 sci-fi scenarios for HBO's 'Confederate'
A successful Confederacy would be a zero-sum economy. In the world of Confederate, the economy would be a hierarchy, with no social mobility, since mobility among economic classes would open the door to economic mobility across racial lines. At the top would be the elite slave-owning families, which owned not only assets but labor, and at the bottom, legally-enslaved African Americans, holding down most of the working-class jobs. There would be no middle class, apart from a thin stratum of professionals: doctors, clergy and lawyers. Beyond that would be only a vast reservoir of restless and unemployable whites, free but bribed into cooperation by Confederate government subsidies and racist propaganda.

Social media progressives are probably right to draw back in horror from the prospect offered by Confederate, although not always for the reasons they presume. The Confederate economy, like the modern Chinese economy, was in the capitalist world but not of it. The Confederate elite of 1861 did not mind making money, but it was aggressively hostile to entrepreneurship and contemptuous of middle-class culture. The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner.

The Confederate government centralized political authority in ways that made a hash of states’ rights, nationalized industries in ways historians have compared to “state socialism,” and imposed the first compulsory national draft in American history. If Benioff and Weiss are successful in creating an alternative world in Confederate, it will shock us fully as much as Game of Thrones has — not for how much of the Confederate future we avoided, but how little.

Slavery was socialism?

lol, that's a new one.

That's not what Professor Guelzo said, but thanks for the usual LW twist!

"The most famous advocate of the slave system, George Fitzhugh, frankly described slavery as “traditional socialism” and bitterly contrasted the cruelty of free-market “cannibalism” with the cradle-to-grave welfare provided by the slave owner."

George Fitzhugh died in 1881. Seriously, dude. Try reading the article and other links with an open mind. Most of this is documented history.

George Fitzhugh, 1806-1881
Fitzhugh, George, 1806-1881. Slavery advocate.Fitzhugh, from Port Royal, Va., was the descendant of an old southern family that had fallen on hard times. He practiced law and struggled as a small planter but made a reputation with two books, Sociology for the South (1854) and Cannibals All! (1857) which alarmed northerners like Abraham Lincoln and roused southerners to take new and higher ground in defense of slavery.

Fitzhugh insisted that all labor, not merely black, had to be enslaved and that the world must become all slave or all free. He defined "slavery" broadly to include all systems of servile labor. These views had become commonplace in the South by the 1850s. His originality lay in the insight that slavery could only survive and prevail if the capitalist world market were destroyed. He understood that organic social relations and attendant values could not survive in a world dominated by capitalist competition and bourgeois individualism.

His call for war against the modern world, expressed in a harsh polemical style, made him a solitary figure. Numerous others agreed that free labor spelled class war and invited anarchy. They also agreed that slavery overcame the "social question" by establishing a master class that combined interest with sentiment to offer the masses security. But, having no confidence in his utopian vision of a reversal of history, they generally tried, however illogically, to convince the European and northern bourgeoisie to restore some form of slavery in a corporatist order.

Fitzhugh opposed secession until the last minute, arguing that a slaveholding Confederacy could not survive until the advanced capitalist countries had themselves converted. After the war, which once begun he loyally and enthusiastically supported, Fitzhugh sank into obscurity, becoming increasingly negrophobic and idiosyncratic. To all intents and purposes, he died at Appomattox.

 

[The Original Tree]

Although the Alt-Right were quick to deny they existed and also quick to jump on the bandwagon attacking the Alt-Left, this Professor Guelzo's article wasn't the first time I've seen a learned person or the media use the term. It's just not as common as the Alt-Right.....maybe when the Alt-Left gets someone in the WH, we'll see it more often.

Meanwhile:
The Alt-Left Media: One More Sign People Are Looking For Echo Chambers
Today's divisive, partisan politics aren't simply weighted to one side. While the alt-right got a lot of attention in 2016, critics say the alt-left media also continues to peddle conspiracy theories and fake stories. But some experts say the existence of the alt-left is merely the symptom, not the illness as consumers look for stories that affirm their political beliefs....

I have studied the politics surrounding the civil war all my life. I was born and raised very near Montgomery Alabama and grew up immersed in the history. I have stood on the battlefields, read the books, and stood by the graves of my ancestors who died on both sides. You are totally screwing up trying to make direct comparisons between the politics of the day and what we have now. It's apples and oranges. If you just wanted to beat-up on liberals there are much less spurious methods than trying to make them like the confederates. The whole thing is silly. You should abandon this thread and forget you ever made it.

You apparently failed at the subject you studied. I hold a degree in history, and two degrees in science, and I can tell you that Liberalism today mirrors post Civil War politics of the late 17th Century.

A simple study of Benevolent Paternalism would teach you that in about 5 minutes.
I can guess by your statement, that your "so called studies" began with a preconceived Bias, and an attempt to prove that THE LEFT was not Authoritarian, did not view themselves as Morally Superior, and did not treat minorities and the poor as Children and Wards of The State.

Here, let me educate you a little, and simply post this link again so you can have a background in the Left's Plantation mentality.

Paternalism - Wikipedia

Here is a good book on Leftist Philosophy and what Minority Cultures Must Do TO BREAK AWAY FROM THEIR KINDLY SLAVE MASTERS!

https://www.amazon.com/Battling-Plantation-Mentality-Struggle-Franklin/dp/0807858021&tag=ff0d01-20

Many African Americans are still Enslaved by The Left Philosophically, Emotionally, and Financially, and it is only by rejecting Benevolent Paternalism and embracing Manifest Destiny, and Rugged Individualism, and Exerting Their FREE WILL to make themselves an Independent and Free Thinking Man or Woman can they fully throw off The Shackles of Social and Economic Slavery imposed on them by Elitists.