How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[deannalw]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

I wouldn't use a crook like BG to illustrate how someone becomes wealthy.

Bill

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

I wouldn't use a crook like BG to illustrate how someone becomes wealthy.

Gates was born of a rabid jackal and the devil's ass pimples.

 

[BlueGin]

See, that right there is a big part of why people refer to taxes as though they're theft: the idea that because you personally disapprove of how someone else uses the money they have earned justifies you taking it from them to "better use" it for what you want.

Your thread title pretended to start from the premise of "what do they owe for what they get", but it's pretty obvious early on that you're really starting from the premise of "What do we want that we can rationalize taking".

If a bunch of poor people can get educated and go to the doctor more easily by taxing a billionaire more I'm really not going to feel bad about it.

That’s not where the money the government takes goes. And it never will. It goes to line the pockets of their special interest groups.

 

[Anomalism]

what are your views??

I just want us to work towards helping more Americans get educated so we can stay competitive internationally. I want us to stop wasting our treasure overseas and instead use it to empower Americans. If we can do that I won't complain much about the details.

 

[HappyJoy]

I dont think people should be punished because they are more successful. IE much higher tax burden. They already pay most of the taxes anyway.
They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

They'll still be the richest Americans if they are taxed more. They live in goofy amounts of excess that's only possible because the U.S kicks ass.

Sure but that doesnt mean they should be punished.
A person making 163,301 pays 8% more in taxes than someone that made 163,300. Thats bullshit.

They do? on the entire amount?

 

[Anomalism]

That’s not where the money the government takes goes. And it never will. It goes to line the pockets of their special interest groups.

Public schools aren't perfect but we'd be in big trouble without them. Not everything the government does is bad or useless.

 

[Indeependent]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

I wouldn't use a crook like BG to illustrate how someone becomes wealthy.

Bill

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

I wouldn't use a crook like BG to illustrate how someone becomes wealthy.

Gates was born of a rabid jackal and the devil's ass pimples.

His father told him to steal everything in site and worry about the lawsuits later on.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Exactly how did they allow the super rich to prosper?

By creating the environment that allowed them to grow so well. Do you think Bill Gates would be where he is today if he had been born in some isolated African tribe where he didn't have the opportunity to learn how to read?

I don't disagree that wealthy Americans are fortunate to live in this country. I'm sure they don't, either. But I think you're vastly over-valuing that component of their success and ignoring other factors entirely.

There are 300 million+ people in the United States. They all have the same advantage of being in a society with an environment that allows for achievement and financial success. The vast majority of them don't get anywhere near where Bill Gates is. It's almost like location isn't the biggest factor in play, or something. I also don't hear you gabbling about what all those other people "owe for this wonderful environment" which they share, even though the majority of them pay little to no taxes at all.

I also think you might consider asking, "What does our society owe to the wealthy?" The benefits of our society are certainly not a one-way street. Their success gives back to society as well, and I don't just mean tax revenues. It is a common and glib statement: "I never got a job from a poor person". It's also true. Nor is that the only benefit the rest of society derives from the financial success of those who become wealthy. Another commonly-heard cliche is also true: A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[progressive hunter]

what are your views??

I just want us to work towards helping more Americans get educated so we can stay competitive internationally. I want us to stop wasting our treasure overseas and instead use it to power Americans. If we can do that I won't complain much about the details.

I suggest you read the constitution then you will realize the feds have very little authority to do most of what you want,, while the states have far more power to do things that help the people of their state,,,

 

[dblack]

How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much

No more than the rest of us. If extremely wealthy people succeeded via voluntary trade, then it was society that made them rich, not government. If they made their money via collusion with government (and that definitely goes on), then they need to be prosecuted, along with the government officials who aided them.

edit: re-reading it seems you are equating society with government. Does "How much do extremely wealthy people owe society?" mean "how much do they owe government?"

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The military is paid for by the federal government taxes. Police are paid by state and local governments taxes.

Taxes are taxes. What are your views of state vs federal taxes?

My state taxes are much lower than my federal taxes, and I can see where it actually goes.

 

[deannalw]

Less is more.

The government is very inefficient due to no competitive pressures.

How much should taxes be cut?

Well, how much is the government spending that is wasteful and inappropriate?

They handed out buckets of money for studying cow farts.

Really.

Does anyone need to say more?

If they'd of asked me first, about spending my tax money on wondering about cow farts, I'd of punched them in the throat and snatched my money back.

 

[Mac1958]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

Damn fair question. Some people are simply built to function better within any given economic system than others, and will naturally prosper more.

The key is in finding a point on the spectrum at which (a) the size and cost of the social safety net is appropriate for the richest country on Earth while not dis-incentivizing those who benefit from it, and (b) the costs (taxes) involved are not too much of a drag on the dynamics of capitalism, such as the profit motive.

Unfortunately, we no longer have the ability to communicate and collaborate to effectively identify that point. Communication is frowned upon. So we just scream at each other.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

That's a matter of perspective and what those tax dollars are being used for.

 

[Anomalism]

"What does our society owe to the wealthy?"

Are you serious? They get to live a life us and everybody in the history of humanity can only dream of. They are extremely wealthy in the information age. They can meet anybody, go anywhere, do anything (mostly). What more could the extremely wealthy want?

 

[Anomalism]

That's a matter of perspective and what those tax dollars are being used for.

I think we can all agree that a lot of tax money gets squandered on bullshit.

 

[HappyJoy]

"What does our society owe to the wealthy?"

Are you serious? They get to live a life us and everybody in the history of humanity can only dream of. They are extremely wealthy in the information age. They can meet anybody, go anywhere, do anything (mostly). What more could the extremely wealthy want?

More

 

[Blues Man]

Surely something, right? I see a lot of people talk like taxes are theft. Is it not just our obligation?

Let me give you an example.

If a person builds a business over several decades and then sells it for 1 million dollars so he can retire with some security and the government takes Joe Biden's 39.6% plus the Obama 3.8% surtax plus the .8% Pease tax for a total of 44.2% of the sales of that business to the feds and let's not forget the state tax bite so we're really looking at 50%.

Does anyone owe 50% of the value of their business to the government because they made that business prosperous?

 

[Anomalism]

Why should a person who earns more pay a higher percentage in taxes than anyone else?

Because they benefit a lot more from this society thing we're doing.

 

[Blues Man]

Why should a person who earns more pay a higher percentage in taxes than anyone else?

Because they benefit a lot more from this society thing we're doing.

why because they earn more money?

BEcause they have skills that demand a higher salary?

Because they might have risked everything to build a business?

Why should I pay a higher percentage than the guy who's life ambition is to put hamburgers in a bag all day ?

 

[deannalw]

Gates would have gotten rich there too. He'd of been selling rocks and tree bark to the masses.

He wouldn't be worth 80 billion dollars.

He'd be worth the equivalent. And so what? It's not illegal to be obscenely rich. And thank God because I plan on winning the lottery sometime soon.

Speaking of... if some guy's been dirt poor and doing the hard scrabble his whole life wins the lottery and becomes filthy rich, does he more than the half the gubbmint already takes?