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You're over analyzing and thinking too hard about this whole thing. While your busy thinking and analyzing the situation, it continues to grow out of control. The time to think has long since sailed. We're dealing in the here and now.Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS....Whatever was left of CAC for ISIS would understand the implications of continuing. Then, I would insert the 82nd Airborne in the area with a clear understanding that ANYONE with a rifle, RPG, RPK, or a pistol dies on sight - be they man, woman or child....Next, I would pick a 30-40 man team to hunt terrorists down around the world. (Something like SF or perhaps DIA second special operations) and conduct raids on terrorists wherever they be in the world, cross borders and kill them with impunity. Israel does this - and the world never hears about it....Until we begin to become as ruthless as our enemy - and show them the same "respect" they show us - this will only fester and get worse. We MUST tell liberals to sit the hell down, shut the fuck up and let MEN handle the situation.
Yes, because "letting the MEN handle the situation" has always worked out well, especially in nuanced troubles where flexibility, restraint and well timed action (or inaction), vacillating between the two as called for is concerned..
Your solution on its face is utterly logical otherwise. Except you forgot one thing: you're not fighting men per se, you are fighting an entity that is larger than its components. That entity is FEAR expressed as PROTECTIVE EXTREME ANGER in primate young males. And the fear I see coming from them that is larger and more amorphous than any clean target you could send your special forces after, comes from their collective and growing fear that the West's depravity is like a disease spreading even within the ranks of their own culture.
Plug it in. It fits. That's why they're clamping down on their own so hard too. What seems like random senseless violence outward and inward from these radicals is actually an expression of fear of preservation of a larger ideal: their culture they see as being annihilated by the West. And, to make matters worse, they are correct, because that's exactly what's happening.
What also fits like a glove is that they are promising to infiltrate and overturn our Western perversions with their own extreme form of being prude. Yes they're hypocrites too...but men caught up in the fury of their righteous indignation and fear/anger response seldom pause to examine their own hypocrisy or skewed rationalizations. And hence the reason why I offered the solutions I have. I think the West should rein itself in as a capitulation to the extreme fear it has been causing in the Islamic ranks. Perhaps the West should offer up some real tangible sacrifice of its depravity in exchange for a "chill period" where everyone takes stock of what happened and reflects on themselves.
They are killing Christians because to them, "Christians" = American Christians who are all sitting on ass while the culture they live in and are losing (or willingly forfeiting) their grasp over spirals into the spiritual septic tank, overflowing everywhere in the world through social and regular media.
The one thing escalation hates the most is a moment of quiet repose and self-reflection. Think about it. Oh, wait, that's one thing MEN never do is stop themselves when engaged in raw fury and rational objectives and THINK ABOUT IT first...
We should at rock bottom minimum ask them what their angst is. We should ask them to present a list of grievances and we should listen to them. Every single wise leader throughout ancient history to present time, when confronted with an escalating problems from the populace, has done exactly this: made capitulations to the grievances (yes, actually and humbly made personal sacrifices to those he ordinarily wouldn't from his usual habit and privilege of unchecked power) in exchange for peace in the land.
1) Give terrorists 150 billion dollars
2) Make them promise that they won't develop nuclear weapons
3) Remove all economic sanctions against them
4) Ask for very, very little in return
I hate to obliterate your retarded talking point (not really) but... Iran has shipped out 25,000 pounds of enriched uranium , deactivated a breeder reactor, and dismantled 15,000 centrifuges, setting their nuclear weapons program back by several years.
God...DAMMIT!!!
Would it really hurt to ask? Would it really hurt to listen? What's more painful, all these insane acts of violence or just setting national pride aside and saying "OK, you've got our attention". I mean it's obvious they have our attention. That cat has already been out of the bag for some time. So might as well acknowledge it.
It's either that or I'm not.You're over analyzing and thinking too hard about this whole thing. While your busy thinking and analyzing the situation, it continues to grow out of control. The time to think has long since sailed. We're dealing in the here and now.
Look, if you have a building that is in the midst of a rat infestation you don't sit back and analyze whats causing it. You eradicate the rats THEN try and fix what caused it.
Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS....Whatever was left of CAC for ISIS would understand the implications of continuing. Then, I would insert the 82nd Airborne in the area with a clear understanding that ANYONE with a rifle, RPG, RPK, or a pistol dies on sight - be they man, woman or child....Next, I would pick a 30-40 man team to hunt terrorists down around the world. (Something like SF or perhaps DIA second special operations) and conduct raids on terrorists wherever they be in the world, cross borders and kill them with impunity. Israel does this - and the world never hears about it....Until we begin to become as ruthless as our enemy - and show them the same "respect" they show us - this will only fester and get worse. We MUST tell liberals to sit the hell down, shut the fuck up and let MEN handle the situation.
Yes, because "letting the MEN handle the situation" has always worked out well, especially in nuanced troubles where flexibility, restraint and well timed action (or inaction), vacillating between the two as called for is concerned..
Your solution on its face is utterly logical otherwise. Except you forgot one thing: you're not fighting men per se, you are fighting an entity that is larger than its components. That entity is FEAR expressed as PROTECTIVE EXTREME ANGER in primate young males. And the fear I see coming from them that is larger and more amorphous than any clean target you could send your special forces after, comes from their collective and growing fear that the West's depravity is like a disease spreading even within the ranks of their own culture.
Plug it in. It fits. That's why they're clamping down on their own so hard too. What seems like random senseless violence outward and inward from these radicals is actually an expression of fear of preservation of a larger ideal: their culture they see as being annihilated by the West. And, to make matters worse, they are correct, because that's exactly what's happening.
What also fits like a glove is that they are promising to infiltrate and overturn our Western perversions with their own extreme form of being prude. Yes they're hypocrites too...but men caught up in the fury of their righteous indignation and fear/anger response seldom pause to examine their own hypocrisy or skewed rationalizations. And hence the reason why I offered the solutions I have. I think the West should rein itself in as a capitulation to the extreme fear it has been causing in the Islamic ranks. Perhaps the West should offer up some real tangible sacrifice of its depravity in exchange for a "chill period" where everyone takes stock of what happened and reflects on themselves.
They are killing Christians because to them, "Christians" = American Christians who are all sitting on ass while the culture they live in and are losing (or willingly forfeiting) their grasp over spirals into the spiritual septic tank, overflowing everywhere in the world through social and regular media.
The one thing escalation hates the most is a moment of quiet repose and self-reflection. Think about it. Oh, wait, that's one thing MEN never do is stop themselves when engaged in raw fury and rational objectives and THINK ABOUT IT first...
We should at rock bottom minimum ask them what their angst is. We should ask them to present a list of grievances and we should listen to them. Every single wise leader throughout ancient history to present time, when confronted with an escalating problems from the populace, has done exactly this: made capitulations to the grievances (yes, actually and humbly made personal sacrifices to those he ordinarily wouldn't from his usual habit and privilege of unchecked power) in exchange for peace in the land.
Burn a quran, when they come screaming to kill you, you know which ones to kill.How, exactly? When new ones are recruited every day all over the world, how would you "kill 'em all"?"KILL'EM ALL"!!
Look, I understand where you are coming from, but you sound cowardly.
You want to "talk" to these animals? Head on over there and start "talking".
Understand this - it's hard to talk when your head is separated from your body. "Peace in the land"? Tell me, if you don't mind, in your own best John Lennon style - when was the last time this world had "peace"?
Burn a quran, when they come screaming to kill you, you know which ones to kill.
Wait for a parade in Palestine where they are taking knives to their own heads and drop napalm on them....See a Demonstration, break out the machine guns...Problem solved.
Yeah Yeah I know. "We don't negotiate with terrorists". So to you I say, "Get back to me when you're exhausted playing whack-a-mole"..
Meanwhile in the real world, some of us are wondering what exactly it is these young men blowing themselves up actually want. I mean has anyone ever sat down with any of them and said "what exactly are your demands?"
Just putting it out there. Usually when people blow themselves up, they're upset about something. Say we ask them "what are you upset about?" Maybe interview one with his voice changed or just with a shroud blocking his face. "What are your demands?"
Would it really hurt to ask? Would it really hurt to listen? What's more painful, all these insane acts of violence or just setting national pride aside and saying "OK, you've got our attention". I mean it's obvious they have our attention. That cat has already been out of the bag for some time. So might as well acknowledge it.
Anyone who is familiar with "The Godfather" understands that what's going on isn't all that different from mob wars. You can hold out and act proud for only so long but when the horse's head winds up in your bed, you have to wake up and realize a truce might be the best way to go.
I know I'm going to get tons and tons of criticism for this idea but frankly I don't give a crap. You know how I am.
You've offered up nothing that will work. Surely you can see a problem with that? I'm not interested in the battle of egos you're trying to engage in as a strawman. I want only solutions that will, in the given situation, with all its parameters WORK. Gonna have to think your way out of the "I'm a courageous veteran and I know better!" box on this one...Buddy, I have fought in a war. I have killed. I KNOW what it's like and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, ever again. But if you let the "bullies on the block" continue running roughshod on the innocent - sooner or later, they come to your front door. What do YOU intend to do then? Invite them in for coffee?
the idea is to get the Islamics extremists to find out what their own goals are, specifically and to enunciate them in a forum where they feel like someone is listening to them
Here's how.No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.
It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.
It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.
You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.
Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".
People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.
How?
Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?
Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?
Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?
Carpet bomb Brussels?
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.
To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500
It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.
It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.
It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.
Dude, ISIS has killed other Muslims as well as Christians...did those Muslims bomb them? ISIS grew to power BECAUSE we allowed them to be seen as "winning" a war against the West...THAT is what they used a recruiting tool not that we bombed them!
You've offered up nothing that will work.Buddy, I have fought in a war. I have killed. I KNOW what it's like and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, ever again. But if you let the "bullies on the block" continue running roughshod on the innocent - sooner or later, they come to your front door. What do YOU intend to do then? Invite them in for coffee?
Here's how.No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.
It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.
It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.
You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.
Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".
People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.
How?
Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?
Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?
Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?
Carpet bomb Brussels?
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.
To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500
Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS..
Here's how.No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.
Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".
People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.
How?
Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?
Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?
Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?
Carpet bomb Brussels?
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.
To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500
Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS..
Says who?
What makes you an expert on Racca and the situation every single person in Racca?
IF you just want to admit that you want to ignore civilian casualties then just admit it.
But your suggestion would just drive recruits to ISIS.
Here's how.No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.
It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.
It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.
You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.
Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".
People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.
How?
Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?
Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?
Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?
Carpet bomb Brussels?
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.
To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500
LOL
- So you want to fire every Admiral and General that actually has experience managing a war.....so
- You can have 'actual war fighters'- and who are these? Some PFC? Maybe a Master Sergeant?
- You want the military to operate without any civilian control....that has turned out so well for so many countries.....
- No more 'rules of engagement'......who in the military will decide about the ROE?
- Certainly the military should have the equipment that they need- you might want to talk to Congress about that.....
- What if the military decides the best course is not to wage war in the Middle East?
You seriously haven't figured out yet what Islamic Extremists want?
They want to kill all Non-Muslims.
It's not rocket science.
