How You Can Be Saved Forever and Know It

[irosie91]

Jake----you do understand that the EXECUTION of Jesus involves a jew executed in Judea about 2000 years ago. Ram has posted ---sorta---- the he thinks the "thieves" were executed for a violation of the ten commandments (in this case --do not steal) The HISTORIC FACT is that jewish law does not prescribe the death
penalty for stealing--------nor does roman law----usually. Roman law at that time and place prescribed CRUCIFIXION FOR SEDITION AGAINST ROME---by non romans. If you want to conclude that some guys (I seem to remember that there
was more than one other person being crucified specifically described as "thieves")
-----there is a question-----WHAT HAD THE THIEVES DONE to make THEM believe
that they DESERVED to be crucified. They were not being crucified for violating a
JEWISH LAW ------so according to their religion----they actually did not DESERVE
to be crucified--------so what had they DONE? (ps I am a jew) For stealing---at
that time----Jewish law prescribed mostly COMPENSATION IN MULTIPLES----sorta
like a TORT suit today

 

[irosie91]

There was a man hanging on the cross with Christ that was a criminal, was never baptized, not a follower, and broke the Commandments. He believed that Christ was who He said He was. That was enough to secure the thief's eternity in Paradise.

Hi Jakey.

what had the other "criminal" done that got him crucified? I have a burning desire to know. When you say he had broken THE COMMANDMENTS-----it seems to me that you mean one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS-------why would the romans have cared?

---------------------------------------------- I think that he was condemned by the Jewish scholars and lawmakers wasn't he ?? Sentence of death may have been a chore that they gave to the Romans to do . ------------ just a guess !!

very bad guess------in fact utterly ridiculous. Jews did not sentence "thieves" to death. You are discussing a situation that existed a mere 2000 years ago----not five million years ago. The romans had no interest at all in jewish civil law.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jillian, you do understand that believers here know you are Jewish and probably agnostic.

I'm not agnostic. but that has nothing to do with what I said your rendition was only partially true and intentionally skewed. reality: jeshua, the person called jesus by the romans, was trying to get people to rise up against rome. that made life dangerous for jews who were occupied. was he turned over... yes, for violating rome's laws.

My answer correct without skewing. We have differing accounts of thieves in the Gospels, and Biblical scholarship argues over that to this day.Your answer is skewed in picturing Jesus solely as a revolutionary, which he was not. He was neither Essene nor Zealot.

Are you an atheist, jillian?

no and of course he was a revolutionary. again, what he wasn't was the messiah and in responding to this thread, understand I don't care what you believe if it brings you comfort and you don't hurt anyone. but some self-satisfied religious zealot with a superiority complex isn't going to pretend his beliefs are superior to mine and talk about "saving" me

everyone believes their own beliefs are superior or they wouldn't hold to them.

Yes. And you are wrong. He was not a "Barabbas" by any means. And your willingness to state Jesus was not "Messiah" means either you don't understand the word or you do but won't admit that if he was not "Messiah" in your sense, he was not a revolutionary.

If your denials make you feel better, that's fine, but I don't care what you think about the subject.

 

[JakeStarkey]

irosie, I don't think anything about the thieves and their crimes. I am not going to quarrel with you or jillian over your deliberate misconstructions of the Gospels and the social and political situations. What Jews think today about Jesus back then means nothing to me. If your denials make me you feel good, far out.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Christ was tried 6 times that night. Against the rules. He was allowed no witnesses in his defense. They judged on the eve of a Sabbath... They broke all kind of rules to kill Jesus.

pismoe, they stoned Stephen to death without conferring with Rome first.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Guys, I would recommend that you put this in the CDZ if you want a clean and polite discussion.

 

[Eaglewings]

Jake----you do understand that the EXECUTION of Jesus involves a jew executed in Judea about 2000 years ago. Ram has posted ---sorta---- the he thinks the "thieves" were executed for a violation of the ten commandments (in this case --do not steal) The HISTORIC FACT is that jewish law does not prescribe the death
penalty for stealing--------nor does roman law----usually. Roman law at that time and place prescribed CRUCIFIXION FOR SEDITION AGAINST ROME---by non romans. If you want to conclude that some guys (I seem to remember that there
was more than one other person being crucified specifically described as "thieves")
-----there is a question-----WHAT HAD THE THIEVES DONE to make THEM believe
that they DESERVED to be crucified. They were not being crucified for violating a
JEWISH LAW ------so according to their religion----they actually did not DESERVE
to be crucified--------so what had they DONE? (ps I am a jew) For stealing---at
that time----Jewish law prescribed mostly COMPENSATION IN MULTIPLES----sorta
like a TORT suit today

Makes it too confusing..for me..The parable is why a man of sin was able to go to heaven because of his belief not his works..

Luke 23:32-43

9 One of the criminals who had been hanged [on a cross beside Him] kept hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us [from death]!”40 But the other one rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?41 We are suffering justly, because we are getting what we deserve for what we have done; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”42 And he was saying, “Jesus, [please] remember me when You come into Your kingdom!”43 Jesus said to him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”


.

 

[irosie91]

Jillian, you do understand that believers here know you are Jewish and probably agnostic.

I'm not agnostic. but that has nothing to do with what I said your rendition was only partially true and intentionally skewed. reality: jeshua, the person called jesus by the romans, was trying to get people to rise up against rome. that made life dangerous for jews who were occupied. was he turned over... yes, for violating rome's laws.

My answer correct without skewing. We have differing accounts of thieves in the Gospels, and Biblical scholarship argues over that to this day.Your answer is skewed in picturing Jesus solely as a revolutionary, which he was not. He was neither Essene nor Zealot.

Are you an atheist, jillian?

no and of course he was a revolutionary. again, what he wasn't was the messiah and in responding to this thread, understand I don't care what you believe if it brings you comfort and you don't hurt anyone. but some self-satisfied religious zealot with a superiority complex isn't going to pretend his beliefs are superior to mine and talk about "saving" me

everyone believes their own beliefs are superior or they wouldn't hold to them.

Yes. And you are wrong. He was not a "Barabbas" by any means. And your willingness to state Jesus was not "Messiah" means either you don't understand the word or you do but won't admit that if he was not "Messiah" in your sense, he was not a revolutionary.

If your denials make you feel better, that's fine, but I don't care what you think about the subject.

It is not clear what BARABBAS was but sunday school teachers seem to like
to say that he was a common lousy criminal. ------whom-----"jews preferred over
Jesus"----Another theory is that Barrabbas was a POPULAR seditionist against Rome--------and jews liked him over Jesus who was a general GOOD GUY who
accomplished cures of the lame and blind. The books is very short on details as
to why any of them were convicted-----It is clear that Jesus was acquitted by the
Sanhedrin, The afterthought is that jews recognize as messiah only some person who SLAUGHTERS ROMANS LEFT AND RIGHT ----------and good guys as BAD

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't think the bible lists their crimes...but the penitent criminal says to Christ that they deserve their fates, but that Christ has done nothing.

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?

Jillian, you do understand that believers here know you are Jewish and probably agnostic.

I'm not agnostic.

but that has nothing to do with what I said

your rendition was only partially true and intentionally skewed.

reality: jeshua, the person called jesus by the romans, was trying to get people to rise up against rome. that made life dangerous for jews who were occupied. was he turned over... yes, for violating rome's laws.

Pontius Pilot didn't want to crucify Jesus, because he was blameless.
Pontius Pilate

Jews for Jesus

your "link" was blocked as a "dubious link"

they can call themselves jews for jesus all they want, btw.... by definition there's no such thing as someone who thinks jeshua was messiah is a ...wait for it....

Christian.

not a jew.

but thanks for linking to religious dogma to try to validate religious dogma.

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Jews who believe that Christ is the Messiah, are Jews, who believe that Christ is the Messiah.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't worry about what Jews have to say about Jesus or the Scriptures.

We fight about that enough ourselves to last hundreds of lifetimes.

 

[irosie91]

Jake----you do understand that the EXECUTION of Jesus involves a jew executed in Judea about 2000 years ago. Ram has posted ---sorta---- the he thinks the "thieves" were executed for a violation of the ten commandments (in this case --do not steal) The HISTORIC FACT is that jewish law does not prescribe the death
penalty for stealing--------nor does roman law----usually. Roman law at that time and place prescribed CRUCIFIXION FOR SEDITION AGAINST ROME---by non romans. If you want to conclude that some guys (I seem to remember that there
was more than one other person being crucified specifically described as "thieves")
-----there is a question-----WHAT HAD THE THIEVES DONE to make THEM believe
that they DESERVED to be crucified. They were not being crucified for violating a
JEWISH LAW ------so according to their religion----they actually did not DESERVE
to be crucified--------so what had they DONE? (ps I am a jew) For stealing---at
that time----Jewish law prescribed mostly COMPENSATION IN MULTIPLES----sorta
like a TORT suit today

Makes it too confusing..for me..The parable is why a man of sin was able to go to heaven because of his belief not his works..

Luke 23:32-43

9 One of the criminals who had been hanged [on a cross beside Him] kept hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us [from death]!”40 But the other one rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?41 We are suffering justly, because we are getting what we deserve for what we have done; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”42 And he was saying, “Jesus, [please] remember me when You come into Your kingdom!”43 Jesus said to him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”


.

I got the parable-----it is the history that does not make sense for the time and place, Even if Luke has been there------he would not have known what the people were saying------he spoke greek and no Aramaic. The parable is a parable-----
I got that. It is something like the parable of the adultress-----not consistent
with history

 

[irosie91]

I don't think the bible lists their crimes...but the penitent criminal says to Christ that they deserve their fates, but that Christ has done nothing.

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?

Jillian, you do understand that believers here know you are Jewish and probably agnostic.

I'm not agnostic.

but that has nothing to do with what I said

your rendition was only partially true and intentionally skewed.

reality: jeshua, the person called jesus by the romans, was trying to get people to rise up against rome. that made life dangerous for jews who were occupied. was he turned over... yes, for violating rome's laws.

Pontius Pilot didn't want to crucify Jesus, because he was blameless.
Pontius Pilate

Jews for Jesus

your "link" was blocked as a "dubious link"

they can call themselves jews for jesus all they want, btw.... by definition there's no such thing as someone who thinks jeshua was messiah is a ...wait for it....

Christian.

not a jew.

but thanks for linking to religious dogma to try to validate religious dogma.

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Jews who believe that Christ is the Messiah, are Jews, who believe that Christ is the Messiah.

depends on which "gospel of Christ"------Luke creates a libel responsible for the
murder of millions. I would never accuse Jesus of creating it. Jews, historically, have "believed" 'in' a few dozen messiahs. Jesus is CERTAINLY as fair a candidate as ALL the rest. Luke is a bit off. As for PONTIUS PILATE not wanting to crucify Jesus----he crucified THOUSANDS of innocent jews----before and after------when did he decide to grow a conscience?

 

[pismoe]

There was a man hanging on the cross with Christ that was a criminal, was never baptized, not a follower, and broke the Commandments. He believed that Christ was who He said He was. That was enough to secure the thief's eternity in Paradise.

Hi Jakey.

what had the other "criminal" done that got him crucified? I have a burning desire to know. When you say he had broken THE COMMANDMENTS-----it seems to me that you mean one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS-------why would the romans have cared?

---------------------------------------------- I think that he was condemned by the Jewish scholars and lawmakers wasn't he ?? Sentence of death may have been a chore that they gave to the Romans to do . ------------ just a guess !!

very bad guess------in fact utterly ridiculous. Jews did not sentence "thieves" to death. You are discussing a situation that existed a mere 2000 years ago----not five million years ago. The romans had no interest at all in jewish civil law.

---------------------------------------------------- I said that the thief on the cross was condemned to death by the Pharisees or Jewish holy men . Maybe he was a repeat offender and the Pharisees Jewish religion was pretty harsh even a mere 2000 years ago . Heck , didn't the Jews stone adultress women 2000 years ago ?? The Romans carried out the sentence of death alongside Jesus is all it may be . ------------ I said that it was a guess Rosie !!

 

[jillian]

I don't think the bible lists their crimes...but the penitent criminal says to Christ that they deserve their fates, but that Christ has done nothing.

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?

Jillian, you do understand that believers here know you are Jewish and probably agnostic.

I'm not agnostic.

but that has nothing to do with what I said

your rendition was only partially true and intentionally skewed.

reality: jeshua, the person called jesus by the romans, was trying to get people to rise up against rome. that made life dangerous for jews who were occupied. was he turned over... yes, for violating rome's laws.

Pontius Pilot didn't want to crucify Jesus, because he was blameless.
Pontius Pilate

Jews for Jesus

your "link" was blocked as a "dubious link"

they can call themselves jews for jesus all they want, btw.... by definition there's no such thing as someone who thinks jeshua was messiah is a ...wait for it....

Christian.

not a jew.

but thanks for linking to religious dogma to try to validate religious dogma.

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Jews who believe that Christ is the Messiah, are Jews, who believe that Christ is the Messiah.

depends on which "gospel of Christ"------Luke creates a libel responsible for the
murder of millions. I would never accuse Jesus of creating it. Jews, historically, have "believed" 'in' a few dozen messiahs. Jesus is CERTAINLY as fair a candidate as ALL the rest. Luke is a bit off. As for PONTIUS PILATE not wanting to crucify Jesus----he crucified THOUSANDS of innocent jews----before and after------when did he decide to grow a conscience?

jews hoped for many messiahs. none turned out to be one. had the messiah been here, the prophesies required that certain things happen. they have not happened.

that should be sufficient.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I do respect jillian and irosie's opinion on a number of issues very highly.

Just not on this OP, so I will skip over their comments.

 

[Penelope]

Christ was tried 6 times that night. Against the rules. He was allowed no witnesses in his defense. They judged on the eve of a Sabbath... They broke all kind of rules to kill Jesus.

pismoe, they stoned Stephen to death without conferring with Rome first.

that was against the law, but capital punishment was taken away from the jews in 30AD.

 

[Meriweather]

How You Can Be Saved Forever and Know It
"What must I do to be saved?" you ask. Here is God's answer given in Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." Many are deceived, yet they should not be. It is not hard to be saved if one sincerely wishes to come God's way. To do the will of the Father means simply to trust Jesus Christ His Son who died to save you. He paid for all your sins. God is satisfied with the price Jesus paid, and offers free pardon to all who depend upon the Lord Jesus Christ for mercy. All through the Bible that blessed truth is given. Claim these blessed promises today:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16.
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:18
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." - John 5:24.

What do you mean, "Saved"? A heavenly afterlife? That doesn't provide me much help with daily living in this life. What does provide me help in daily life is this:

Jesus said to repent (turn away from sin) and to discern the will of God and be obedient to it. Scripture tells us sin is slavery and death, while ironically enough, obedience is freedom and life. Jesus told us Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And, to forgive others in the same manner we wished to be forgiven. When people challenged his right to convey any such message or covenant as from God, Jesus gave his life, his blood, and by his resurrection laid out the credentials of his right and authority to present his teaching as valid and authoritative. By Jesus life and teaching, by his death and resurrection, he redeemed life here on earth for those who believe in him. He called this life in the Kingdom and promised life in the Kingdom would be eternal. Remember our prayer: Your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Why wait until death? Begin your eternal life now. Repent, forgive, discern God's will and be obedient to it.

 

[irosie91]

There was a man hanging on the cross with Christ that was a criminal, was never baptized, not a follower, and broke the Commandments. He believed that Christ was who He said He was. That was enough to secure the thief's eternity in Paradise.

Hi Jakey.

what had the other "criminal" done that got him crucified? I have a burning desire to know. When you say he had broken THE COMMANDMENTS-----it seems to me that you mean one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS-------why would the romans have cared?

---------------------------------------------- I think that he was condemned by the Jewish scholars and lawmakers wasn't he ?? Sentence of death may have been a chore that they gave to the Romans to do . ------------ just a guess !!

very bad guess------in fact utterly ridiculous. Jews did not sentence "thieves" to death. You are discussing a situation that existed a mere 2000 years ago----not five million years ago. The romans had no interest at all in jewish civil law.

---------------------------------------------------- I said that the thief on the cross was condemned to death by the Pharisees or Jewish holy men . Maybe he was a repeat offender and the Pharisees Jewish religion was pretty harsh even a mere 2000 years ago . Heck , didn't the Jews stone adultress women 2000 years ago ?? The Romans carried out the sentence of death alongside Jesus is all it may be . ------------ I said that it was a guess Rosie !!

very baseless guess------in fact PHARISEES never used the death penalty at all and still don't and CERTAINLY not for theft. The most serious crimes for PHARISEES were------murder, kidnapping (which at that time meant stealing kids and selling them into slavery) and adultery. AND in fact------there is no history at all of the death penalty actually imposed for adultery during that time. Try to focus----there is a reason why Israel does not impose the death penalty------current
jewish law is of the PHARISEE type. This is real stuff they do not teach in
sunday school. Tell me the truth-----as a kid did you think that the "money changers in the tample court yard" were 'pharisees' Keep in mind----as a kid
I was in sunday school a lot more than in any synagogue. No question in my mind
that the "money changers" MUST HAVE BEEN PHARISEES when I was 8
years old. PS----adultery was not just defined as something women do------the MEN involved were just as guilty (if not more so) and there is no history of any men being "stoned" for that crime. Strictly speaking ADULTERY is sex between a married woman and any man not her husband. SHEEEESH your sunday school teacher would be proud. The romans never acted as POLICE for the imposition
of Jewish law (or british law for the brits when they fought the blue people)

 

[irosie91]

Christ was tried 6 times that night. Against the rules. He was allowed no witnesses in his defense. They judged on the eve of a Sabbath... They broke all kind of rules to kill Jesus.

pismoe, they stoned Stephen to death without conferring with Rome first.

that was against the law, but capital punishment was taken away from the jews in 30AD.

just in time for jesus? I am fascinated how they got that so CLOSE. I had learned in sunday school that jews had no power for capital punishment when the ROMANS SHOWED UP-------long before 30 AD. AGAINST what law? Jews managed to kill other jews -----thruout the time of roman rule -------try to cope-----that crucifixtion story was FIXED ------reported mostly be people who were not there and did not know the languages spoken. It is not parable-----it is PARABOLIC-----
nothing wrong with literary license, however. This is the first time I ever heard a claim that the putative ban on execution by jews first came about in 30 AD-----

who said that they judged on the eve of a SABBATH?----who "judged" on the eve of a Sabbath? As I recall------they interrupted a Passover supper------Jesus was crucified on a "Thursday"?? maybe not

 

[irosie91]

I don't think the bible lists their crimes...but the penitent criminal says to Christ that they deserve their fates, but that Christ has done nothing.

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?

I'm not agnostic.

but that has nothing to do with what I said

your rendition was only partially true and intentionally skewed.

reality: jeshua, the person called jesus by the romans, was trying to get people to rise up against rome. that made life dangerous for jews who were occupied. was he turned over... yes, for violating rome's laws.

Pontius Pilot didn't want to crucify Jesus, because he was blameless.
Pontius Pilate

Jews for Jesus

your "link" was blocked as a "dubious link"

they can call themselves jews for jesus all they want, btw.... by definition there's no such thing as someone who thinks jeshua was messiah is a ...wait for it....

Christian.

not a jew.

but thanks for linking to religious dogma to try to validate religious dogma.

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Jews who believe that Christ is the Messiah, are Jews, who believe that Christ is the Messiah.

depends on which "gospel of Christ"------Luke creates a libel responsible for the
murder of millions. I would never accuse Jesus of creating it. Jews, historically, have "believed" 'in' a few dozen messiahs. Jesus is CERTAINLY as fair a candidate as ALL the rest. Luke is a bit off. As for PONTIUS PILATE not wanting to crucify Jesus----he crucified THOUSANDS of innocent jews----before and after------when did he decide to grow a conscience?

jews hoped for many messiahs. none turned out to be one. had the messiah been here, the prophesies required that certain things happen. they have not happened.

that should be sufficient.

the libel is that jesus is ENTIRELY SPIRITUAL and what DA JOOOOS really wanted is an atomic bomb to kill all the romans-------try to keep up