I come forward, and lay on mee sword.

[LordBrownTrout]

I must admit, (and it was mostly for fun, mind you), that I often argued in favor of Obamacare because I thought that the fear-mongering was mostly nonsense.

Well, most of it is nonsense.


BUTTTT (big butttt, like Suzanne Boyle butttt) -

My wife's Boss, a Dentist (she's a hygienist) pays a (bigger) bulk of our Health Insurance than normal bosses do, which is why we're insured under my wife's office instead of mine.

About three years ago, he stopped paying 100% (which was fuggin awesome) and started making employees contribute some.

That's okay, we're juuUUuust about upper middle class, but not quite. So we're middle class a little higher mebbe.

AAAAaanyhoo - THIS YEAR, the cost is SKYROCKETING. And this is coming from me - the guy who thought this thing would likely work itself out. $85/week MORE. That's per WEEK. And employees are eating the entire cost. Do the math, that's $340 more a month. In perspective, that's 3 more cable/internet bills. That's ANOTHER car payment.

We are not RICH. We do not qualify for subsidies. This HURTS US. This HURTS our spending power, this LESSENS our consumerism. This DECREASES the value of life for my DAUGHTER.





So, ALWAYS devil's advocate what I did was - I assumed the HR/Office Manager was retarded and I hopped onto the exchange to see if she was missing a small-business subsidy or some such thing. NOPE. Any small business where the Average Salary is $55k or higher DOES NOT QUALIFY. Mind you, the DENTISTS working there highly skew the Average, but who's worrying about details.

So, I tried to see how costly it would be to get our OWN insurance, NON employer based. We are not under 4x the poverty level, and so we do not qualify for subsidies either. And the prices?

I-N-S-A-N-E.


So, as soon as you can tell me why it's GOOD thing that A NOT RICH family has their insurance go up an ENTIRE CAR PAYMENT, all at once and WITHOUT RECOURSE, you can defend this law to userhandle GT.

Until then, you are DEAD TO ME, Gangster.

Wait...you're employer provided plan is raising rates and somehow that's the fault of the Affordable Care Act? How exactly?

My rates were raised specifically because of aca....27 percent. It has affected my family also.

 

[Pennywise]

You mean you don't feel all warm and fuzzy because your extra $340 a month is "doing your part"?

I don't know why all the sideswipes.

I was never an obamabot. I'm just not into politics like that.

But yea, Obama always says he's for stopping the SQUEEZE on the middle class.

Not sure how this doesn't squeeze us. I feel like I'm getting a bear hug from The Undertaker or Hulk Hogan.

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bought insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

 

[Edgetho]

I bet by the time it's over I will say this 100 times, the driving factor behind the monthly premium is what the policy covers. No one reads their policies, and who wants to? They are purposefully structured and written in a way so as to obscure the fact that the insurer is trying to reduce their liability and costs to the lowest number.

So a cheap policy covers the initial catastrophic aspect of a diagnosis but leaves the patient high and dry for after-care, therapy, tests and follow up procedures. People don't know these things are being left out of their policies because they don't know they exist until the doc prescribes them. That's when you learn that you get what you pay for. And so YOU get the bill for the procedure because the insurer GLADLY sends a form letter telling you that your policy doesn't cover X, Y, Z. They GLEEFULLY tell you that that one is ON YOU.

The ACA law requires that insurance companies can no longer fuck their policy holders over like they used to. They have to pay for PET scans, MRIs, preventative tests, Rx drugs etc. But the biggest reason costs are up is because they can no longer deny coverage for someone with a pre-existing condition.

The insurance companies are not going to lose money on all these millions of people they used to deny and rescind policies to. So prices go up. But the bigger the pool, the lower the cost for everyone.

I think it all sucks of course because I am in favor of single payer. Insurance companies have no business being in health care.

After 25 (twenty-five) years in the Insurance Industry, with almost as many letters after my name on my Business Card than are in the alphabet.... With over 400 Classroom hours of education (not counting CE) and over 2,500 customers on my 'Book' when I retired....

I want to tell the good people of this Board that...

You don't know what the FUCK you're talking about.

And you're an idiot. A complete and utter idiot

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I bet by the time it's over I will say this 100 times, the driving factor behind the monthly premium is what the policy covers. No one reads their policies, and who wants to? They are purposefully structured and written in a way so as to obscure the fact that the insurer is trying to reduce their liability and costs to the lowest number.

So a cheap policy covers the initial catastrophic aspect of a diagnosis but leaves the patient high and dry for after-care, therapy, tests and follow up procedures. People don't know these things are being left out of their policies because they don't know they exist until the doc prescribes them. That's when you learn that you get what you pay for. And so YOU get the bill for the procedure because the insurer GLADLY sends a form letter telling you that your policy doesn't cover X, Y, Z. They GLEEFULLY tell you that that one is ON YOU.

The ACA law requires that insurance companies can no longer fuck their policy holders over like they used to. They have to pay for PET scans, MRIs, preventative tests, Rx drugs etc. But the biggest reason costs are up is because they can no longer deny coverage for someone with a pre-existing condition.

The insurance companies are not going to lose money on all these millions of people they used to deny and rescind policies to. So prices go up. But the bigger the pool, the lower the cost for everyone.

I think it all sucks of course because I am in favor of single payer. Insurance companies have no business being in health care.

Wait a second....O said costs would go down.

 

[G.T.]

You mean you don't feel all warm and fuzzy because your extra $340 a month is "doing your part"?

I don't know why all the sideswipes.

I was never an obamabot. I'm just not into politics like that.

But yea, Obama always says he's for stopping the SQUEEZE on the middle class.

Not sure how this doesn't squeeze us. I feel like I'm getting a bear hug from The Undertaker or Hulk Hogan.

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

 

[Edgetho]

I bet by the time it's over I will say this 100 times, the driving factor behind the monthly premium is what the policy covers. No one reads their policies, and who wants to? They are purposefully structured and written in a way so as to obscure the fact that the insurer is trying to reduce their liability and costs to the lowest number.

So a cheap policy covers the initial catastrophic aspect of a diagnosis but leaves the patient high and dry for after-care, therapy, tests and follow up procedures. People don't know these things are being left out of their policies because they don't know they exist until the doc prescribes them. That's when you learn that you get what you pay for. And so YOU get the bill for the procedure because the insurer GLADLY sends a form letter telling you that your policy doesn't cover X, Y, Z. They GLEEFULLY tell you that that one is ON YOU.

The ACA law requires that insurance companies can no longer fuck their policy holders over like they used to. They have to pay for PET scans, MRIs, preventative tests, Rx drugs etc. But the biggest reason costs are up is because they can no longer deny coverage for someone with a pre-existing condition.

The insurance companies are not going to lose money on all these millions of people they used to deny and rescind policies to. So prices go up. But the bigger the pool, the lower the cost for everyone.

I think it all sucks of course because I am in favor of single payer. Insurance companies have no business being in health care.

Wait a second....O said costs would go down.

He lied. Get over it.

It is now the law. Whatcha gonna do about it?

 

[dblack]

...The ACA law requires that insurance companies can no longer fuck their policy holders over like they used to....

No, ACA pins them down so they can't escape.

 

[editec]

I must admit, (and it was mostly for fun, mind you), that I often argued in favor of Obamacare because I thought that the fear-mongering was mostly nonsense.

Well, most of it is nonsense.


BUTTTT (big butttt, like Suzanne Boyle butttt) -

My wife's Boss, a Dentist (she's a hygienist) pays a (bigger) bulk of our Health Insurance than normal bosses do, which is why we're insured under my wife's office instead of mine.

About three years ago, he stopped paying 100% (which was fuggin awesome) and started making employees contribute some.

That's okay, we're juuUUuust about upper middle class, but not quite. So we're middle class a little higher mebbe.

AAAAaanyhoo - THIS YEAR, the cost is SKYROCKETING. And this is coming from me - the guy who thought this thing would likely work itself out. $85/week MORE. That's per WEEK. And employees are eating the entire cost. Do the math, that's $340 more a month. In perspective, that's 3 more cable/internet bills. That's ANOTHER car payment.

We are not RICH. We do not qualify for subsidies. This HURTS US. This HURTS our spending power, this LESSENS our consumerism. This DECREASES the value of life for my DAUGHTER.





So, ALWAYS devil's advocate what I did was - I assumed the HR/Office Manager was retarded and I hopped onto the exchange to see if she was missing a small-business subsidy or some such thing. NOPE. Any small business where the Average Salary is $55k or higher DOES NOT QUALIFY. Mind you, the DENTISTS working there highly skew the Average, but who's worrying about details.

So, I tried to see how costly it would be to get our OWN insurance, NON employer based. We are not under 4x the poverty level, and so we do not qualify for subsidies either. And the prices?

I-N-S-A-N-E.


So, as soon as you can tell me why it's GOOD thing that A NOT RICH family has their insurance go up an ENTIRE CAR PAYMENT, all at once and WITHOUT RECOURSE, you can defend this law to userhandle GT.

Until then, you are DEAD TO ME, Gangster.

ACA has NO mechanisms that I am aware of to reduce or keep the costs of HC (therefore insurance premiums) down.

This is why the LEFTIES WHO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION have been bitching about ACA all along.

Now the idiots on the right truly believe that the insurance companies are distruaght over ACA.

they could not be more wrong.

ACA is the best thing that every happened to the HC insurance industry.

Now YOU know why.

 

[Edgetho]

I don't know why all the sideswipes.

I was never an obamabot. I'm just not into politics like that.

But yea, Obama always says he's for stopping the SQUEEZE on the middle class.

Not sure how this doesn't squeeze us. I feel like I'm getting a bear hug from The Undertaker or Hulk Hogan.

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

 

[dblack]

I don't know why all the sideswipes.

I was never an obamabot. I'm just not into politics like that.

But yea, Obama always says he's for stopping the SQUEEZE on the middle class.

Not sure how this doesn't squeeze us. I feel like I'm getting a bear hug from The Undertaker or Hulk Hogan.

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

Thanks for the candid reply. The law turns an already corrupt business into a rigged game, that we're now legally required to play. Google Liz Fowler.

 

[Pennywise]

I don't know why all the sideswipes.

I was never an obamabot. I'm just not into politics like that.

But yea, Obama always says he's for stopping the SQUEEZE on the middle class.

Not sure how this doesn't squeeze us. I feel like I'm getting a bear hug from The Undertaker or Hulk Hogan.

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

Did you also buy into the mantra that the GOP was against it simply because they hate Barrack, or because they don't give a shit about ill people? Did that argument ring true to you? And conversely, did you believe that the Dems had your best interest at heart?

 

[Zoom-boing]

You mean you don't feel all warm and fuzzy because your extra $340 a month is "doing your part"?

It's his "shared responsibility payment", it's for the greater good, his individual situation matters not. It's all gooood. Ommmm.

 

[G.T.]

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

Thanks for the candid reply. The law turns an already corrupt business into a rigged game, that we're now legally required to play. Google Liz Fowler.

It's such a mess.

I'm anxious now for the next economic crash so that the people too blind to see the massive wealth redistribution can put their hat in their hands.

 

[Newby]

The ACA effects the rates of ALL health insurance.

What provision of the ACA required YOUR employer provided insurance to raise rates. Did you have a substandard plan that did not meet the minimum requirements of the ACA?

As I stated before, the increase in high risk people in the companies portfolio will require said risk to be mitigated across the board.

Mitigated, as in increased rates for all.

Now, now... it's not for 'all'... only those 'rich' people out there, i.e. the middle class will have their rates raised, after all they're the ones with the money to pay for it.. for the welfare types and low income types it's "FREE"!!!!

 

[G.T.]

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

Did you also buy into the mantra that the GOP was against it simply because they hate Barrack, or because they don't give a shit about ill people? Did that argument ring true to you? And conversely, did you believe that the Dems had your best interest at heart?

I am still of the FIRM belief that much of the anti-Obamacare rhetoric is/was crap, and much of it WAS because of a hatred of Obama.

How do I know?

Because they say so many things that ARENT TRUE.

So, this isn't a vindication FOR the GOP coming from me. They were against the Law in not just HONEST, but ALSO many many nefarious ways. I don't appreciate the hatred and the child-like tactics.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I bet by the time it's over I will say this 100 times, the driving factor behind the monthly premium is what the policy covers. No one reads their policies, and who wants to? They are purposefully structured and written in a way so as to obscure the fact that the insurer is trying to reduce their liability and costs to the lowest number.

So a cheap policy covers the initial catastrophic aspect of a diagnosis but leaves the patient high and dry for after-care, therapy, tests and follow up procedures. People don't know these things are being left out of their policies because they don't know they exist until the doc prescribes them. That's when you learn that you get what you pay for. And so YOU get the bill for the procedure because the insurer GLADLY sends a form letter telling you that your policy doesn't cover X, Y, Z. They GLEEFULLY tell you that that one is ON YOU.

The ACA law requires that insurance companies can no longer fuck their policy holders over like they used to. They have to pay for PET scans, MRIs, preventative tests, Rx drugs etc. But the biggest reason costs are up is because they can no longer deny coverage for someone with a pre-existing condition.

The insurance companies are not going to lose money on all these millions of people they used to deny and rescind policies to. So prices go up. But the bigger the pool, the lower the cost for everyone.

I think it all sucks of course because I am in favor of single payer. Insurance companies have no business being in health care.

Wait a second....O said costs would go down.

He lied. Get over it.

It is now the law. Whatcha gonna do about it?

Of course, the informed knew prices were going up. O just lied to push it through. He knew if he told the truth about what was going to transpire that the bill would have been fully rejected. Then, he continued to lie about it before election. If the people would have known this before Nov election last year, he wouldn't be president today.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Can you tell us how an otherwise intelligent person did not understand that by forcing everyone to purchase total medical coverage and forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, and forcing them to cover anyone at any time, even if they never bough insurance before getting cancer, that taxing ALL MEDICAL DEVICES (including Band Aids), that somehow insurance rates would go down?

This is a serious question and I'm not out for "gotchas" or to hurl insults. We need to know how such a cognitive disconnect can exist across such a broad spectrum of citizens if we are going to figure out how to make people understand these things before they become the abomination of law that we now have.

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

Did you also buy into the mantra that the GOP was against it simply because they hate Barrack, or because they don't give a shit about ill people? Did that argument ring true to you? And conversely, did you believe that the Dems had your best interest at heart?

Did the fucking Republicans EVER offer an alternative plan? Does that answer your stupid questions?

 

[Edgetho]

...The ACA law requires that insurance companies can no longer fuck their policy holders over like they used to....

No, ACA pins them down so they can't escape.

You're both wrong.

I had a newly hired Assistant State Attorney come into my Office one time to buy Insurance and the questioning got around to occupation.

He said, "Attorney, I bet you hate us, huh?"

I said, "Why would you think that? Every time Attorneys force the cost of Insurance up, I get a raise. Every time the cost of Insurance goes up 10%, I get a 10% raise."

Same with Insurance Companies. They're allowed to make 'X' percent of dollars under the ACA.

10% (or 5% or 3%) of $1,500 a Month in premium dollars is better than the same percent of $300.

You idiots think the gubmint has them roped in? That's laughable.

The day a Bureaucrat with a degree from a Party School outsmarts a PhD in economics from a Switzerland School....

It ain't gonna happen.

And neither is single payer. That boat just sank in the Potomac.

After this clusterfuck? No way that's gonna happen.

 

[G.T.]

I'll still be eating steaks at the finest local restaurants : )

Mind you.

But - my lifestyle will definitely have to change a little bit.

 

[Edgetho]

Sure, it was a good faith question unlike the others' side-swipes and so I'll oblige you.

I was under the impression that the COMPETITION (we now have more choices, due to the exchange) would drive insurers to give their bottom-dollar prices in order to attract business - and was also under the impression that the expanded customer base would mitigate some of the cost and that subsidies would take care of any big hit to C.O.L. for the Average-sized American Family, since the subsidies are paid for by tax-dollars already collected but just reallocated.

That's where my impression was, and it doesn't look like it's coming true at all.

Did you also buy into the mantra that the GOP was against it simply because they hate Barrack, or because they don't give a shit about ill people? Did that argument ring true to you? And conversely, did you believe that the Dems had your best interest at heart?

Did the fucking Republicans EVER offer an alternative plan? Does that answer your stupid questions?

Yes.

Since 1947, we've offered several different plans and dimocrap scum fought them all.

And you're an idiot