If an EV is in your future, keep this issue in mind

[Toddsterpatriot]

Dec 2023 Toyota Physical and Chemical Research Institute, Aichi, Japan

Understanding the reaction mechanism and kinetics of photocatalytic oxygen evolution on CoOx-loaded bismuth vanadate - PubMed

Photocatalytic water splitting for green hydrogen production is hindered by the sluggish kinetics of oxygen evolution reaction (OER). Loading a co-catalyst is essential for accelerating the kinetics, but the detailed reaction mechanism and role of the co-catalyst are still obscure. Here, we...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Using sunlight to generate hydrogen.
Probably won't be good enough for a moving vehicle.

 

[Robert W]

You can just admit you don't understand physics, but you posted it because it sounded cool.

Then I'll stop getting frustrated at your ignorance of physics.

Let me know if you need me to give you the middle-school level physics run through
of why this is a silly idea.

I have passed physics with A grades both in high school and in College. What is your aim here? Also on energy I have a super good book by a Professor Mullins that I have also studied. Also from MIT I have the excellent book covering this by Professor Charles Taylor whom Professor Richard Lindzen informs me he knew when Taylor was still living.

By the way In College I also took Chemistry courses.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I have passed physics with A grades both in high school and in College. What is your aim here? Also on energy I have a super good book by a Professor Mullins that I have also studied. Also from MIT I have the excellent book covering this by Professor Charles Taylor whom Professor Richard Lindzen informs me he knew when Taylor was still living.

By the way In College I also took Chemistry courses.

I have passed physics with A grades both in high school and in College.

I'm sorry that you've forgotten everything you learned about entropy.

Also on energy I have a super good book by a Professor Mullins that I have also studied.

Does it tell you that we have no source of free hydrogen?

By the way In College I also took Chemistry courses

And you're posting about cars that generate electricity to create their own hydrogen?
You don't see any possible issue with that?

 

[Robert W]

I have passed physics with A grades both in high school and in College.

I'm sorry that you've forgotten everything you learned about entropy.

Also on energy I have a super good book by a Professor Mullins that I have also studied.

Does it tell you that we have no source of free hydrogen?

By the way In College I also took Chemistry courses

And you're posting about cars that generate electricity to create their own hydrogen?
You don't see any possible issue with that?

Actually when you get to be 85, you may not still live. Who told you I forgot about entropy?

Since you do not believe you can rely on me, simply rely on the sources I have already posted for you to read.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Actually when you get to be 85, you may not still live. Who told you I forgot about entropy?

Since you do not believe you can rely on me, simply rely on the sources I have already posted for you to read.

Who told you I forgot about entropy?

Nearly every one of your posts.

 

[Robert W]

Also on energy I have a super good book by a Professor Mullins that I have also studied.

Does it tell you that we have no source of free hydrogen?

Well, I have to look at my book again to be sure I can give a correct reply.

How are you doing in contacting Toyota who have experts who surely know how to reply to your questions?

 

[Robert W]

Who told you I forgot about entropy?

Nearly every one of your posts.

But you refuse to look at the video I posted. This means you simply do not want to know.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, I have to look at my book again to be sure I can give a correct reply.

How are you doing in contacting Toyota who have experts who surely know how to reply to your questions?

Wasted taxpayer dollars in the form of green subsidies may hide energy losses
but they don't stop them.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But you refuse to look at the video I posted. This means you simply do not want to know.

Does the video violate the laws of physics? Then I'm not interested.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I will submit another video showing how water can solve our problems.

Let's get smarter every day.

There is no energy in water to run a car on.

 

[Robert W]

There is no energy in water to run a car on.

Inform Toyota.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Inform Toyota.

They already know.

 

[Crick]

There are a few hydrogen fueling stations in and around Sacramento. Quite a few more, in and around Than Fwanthithco.

But once you go south from there, how far short of the next hydrogen fueling station along any route to Los Angeles will you be, when you run out of fuel? And how much will it cost you to have your hydrogen power car towed to the nearest place to refuel it?

This is probably the primary reason all the car makers went with EVs over fuel cells. We may not have charging stations on every corner, but by god we do have electricity. Hydrogen, not so much. Like, really not so much.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

This is probably the primary reason all the car makers went with EVs over fuel cells. We may not have charging stations on every corner, but by god we do have electricity. Hydrogen, not so much. Like, really not so much.

To some degree, there's the chicken/egg problem.

It's not worth putting in hydrogen fuel stations, unless there are enough customers with hydrogen-fueled cars; and for most people, it's not worth buying a hydrogen-fueled car, if there aren't enough places to fuel it.

There are some other, very serious technical issues with hydrogen. For one thing, it's very difficult, and rather dangerous to store very much of it. I think that the Toyota Mirai's fuel tank is at ten thousand pounds per square inch. That's a damn lot of pressure, a damn lot of force to go very badly wrong.

And because hydrogen molecules are so small, and especially at the extreme pressures under which it is stored in such applications, the molecules tend to squeeze into the spaces between the molecules of whatever other material is in contact with it, eventually damaging that material.

The Saturn V rockets, used to send men to the Moon, used hydrogen as a fuel, but with them, it was pumped in in liquid form, at extremely low temperatures. Surely, you've seen the footage of these rockets taking off, a big plume of fire below, and ice falling off the sides. Once fueled, these rockets had to be launched almost immediately, because the hydrogen could not be kept liquid, could not be kept contained, for very long at all.

Hydrogen has a very high density of energy to mass, which is what made it such a good fuel for the Saturn rockets. But by volume, not so much.. It's very difficult, and dangerous, to try to contain very much hydrogen by mass, in relatively small volumes.

 

[Crick]

To some degree, there's the chicken/egg problem.

It's not worth putting in hydrogen fuel stations, unless there are enough customers with hydrogen-fueled cars; and for most people, it's not worth buying a hydrogen-fueled car, if there aren't enough places to fuel it.

There are some other, very serious technical issues with hydrogen. For one thing, it's very difficult, and rather dangerous to store very much of it. I think that the Toyota Mirai's fuel tank is at ten thousand pounds per square inch. That's a damn lot of pressure, a damn lot of force to go very badly wrong.

But there have been no failures of those tanks, though there aren't a lot of Mirais on the road. There has been substantial effort at finding a good way to store it. I read an article about borax that looked promising. It contains an enormous amount of hydrogen and is quite benign.

And because hydrogen molecules are so small, and especially at the extreme pressures under which it is stored in such applications, the molecules tend to squeeze into the spaces between the molecules of whatever other material is in contact with it, eventually damaging that material.

Hydrogen embrittlement kills stainless. And, of course, it leaks. Helium's the same.

The Saturn V rockets, used to send men to the Moon, used hydrogen as a fuel, but with them, it was pumped in in liquid form, at extremely low temperatures. Surely, you've seen the footage of these rockets taking off, a big plume of fire below, and ice falling off the sides. Once fueled, these rockets had to be launched almost immediately, because the hydrogen could not be kept liquid, could not be kept contained, for very long at all.

I saw some of them live and yes, you're correct.

Hydrogen has a very high density of energy to mass, which is what made it such a good fuel for the Saturn rockets. But by volume, not so much.. It's very difficult, and dangerous, to try to contain very much hydrogen by mass, in relatively small volumes.

It is the choice to keep it at pressure that causes the danger. If we were all willing to drive around with dirigibles floating behind our cars... ; - )

 

[watchingfromafar]

My car, the entire car, weights a bit more than a ton and a half.

When the gas pumps go try I suggest you buy a bicycle.

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[watchingfromafar]

In my case, my complaint is not the EV, it is the batteries used in EVs. We rushed into batteries when the truth is Hydrogen is a superior path to EVs.

I agree, hydrogen is a better path, our space station is powered by hydrogen fuel cells. Having said that, other alternatives can be used as well.

I envision a system where we do not wait hours to recharge your battery but just exchange your depleted battery with a charged one and get credits for whatever charge is still in the battery.

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[Robert W]

I agree, hydrogen is a better path, our space station is powered by hydrogen fuel cells. Having said that, other alternatives can be used as well.

I envision a system where we do not wait hours to recharge your battery but just exchange your depleted battery with a charged one and get credits for whatever charge is still in the battery.
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So, a highway littered with places donating us batteries? How can a business operate?

 

[Robert W]

Hydrogen embrittlement kills stainless. And, of course, it leaks. Helium's the same.

I am surprised that I am not reading this about storing hydrogen gas.

Compressed hydrogen fuel tanks are now made of carbon fiber composites or carbon fiber and metal alloys and composites. The inner line of the tank is a high-molecular weight polymer that serves as a hydrogen gas permeation barrier. The outer shell is placed on the tank for impact and damage resistance.

Hydrogen as fuel for fuel cell electric vehicles​

 

[Robert W]

For those fighting me over stopping using Batteries to power cars and use the best path, Hydrogen gas, tanks are no problem. This problem has been solved. Distribution is a problem. But this too can be solved and not at a staggering expense. China loves our use of Batteries. Why not, it supports their economy. Why lug around a ton to two tons of batteries when you can lug a small weight in hydrogen? Gosh, I dunno. Who favors carrying up to a ton of batteries that you must spend not moments, but a lot of time recharging? Who thinks batteries in below freezing temperatures is a special excellent idea? What happens to apartment dwellers? Do they have to rewire the buildings? What if your home is old and all you have is a 60 amp service or maybe a 100 amps? Sure there are fast chargers. Say how much do you pay to use a fast charger?
Hydrogen can be a permanent fix. Batteries do store electric dc current. I know all about that. I have encountered on this thread some supposedly smart posters. But why do they ask me questions if they actually are smart? One might think they would want to be part of the solution than part of the problem. All my goal here is to get posters to truly think things though. It does not mean I have all the answers.