If an EV is in your future, keep this issue in mind

[Toddsterpatriot]

For those fighting me over stopping using Batteries to power cars and use the best path, Hydrogen gas, tanks are no problem. This problem has been solved. Distribution is a problem. But this too can be solved and not at a staggering expense. China loves our use of Batteries. Why not, it supports their economy. Why lug around a ton to two tons of batteries when you can lug a small weight in hydrogen? Gosh, I dunno. Who favors carrying up to a ton of batteries that you must spend not moments, but a lot of time recharging? Who thinks batteries in below freezing temperatures is a special excellent idea? What happens to apartment dwellers? Do they have to rewire the buildings? What if your home is old and all you have is a 60 amp service or maybe a 100 amps? Sure there are fast chargers. Say how much do you pay to use a fast charger?
Hydrogen can be a permanent fix. Batteries do store electric dc current. I know all about that. I have encountered on this thread some supposedly smart posters. But why do they ask me questions if they actually are smart? One might think they would want to be part of the solution than part of the problem. All my goal here is to get posters to truly think things though. It does not mean I have all the answers.

Why lug around a ton to two tons of batteries when you can lug a small weight in hydrogen?

Because a small weight of hydrogen takes up a lot of space and doesn't get you very far.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

But there have been no failures of those tanks, though there aren't a lot of Mirais on the road.

I just don't believe that if this sort of configuration becomes common, that you won't see occasional failures. And at ten thousand pounds per square inch, when failures do occur, they are going to be spectacular and devastating. What we've seen with EV batteries catching fire is nothing compared to what we will be seeing with hydrogen tank failures.

I also have to wonder what the expected useful life a a Mirai fuel tank is. Between the extreme pressure, and the hydrogen molecules working their way into and damaging the materials from which the tank is made, I have to think that the tank will need to be replaced on a regular basis, with negligence in having ithem replaced leading to increasing numbers of catastrophic tank failures.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I envision a system where we do not wait hours to recharge your battery but just exchange your depleted battery with a charged one and get credits for whatever charge is still in the battery.

We get the practical equivalent now, with real cars. We do not wait for hours for a real car to be refueled with gasoline.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Why lug around a ton to two tons of batteries when you can lug a small weight in hydrogen?

Because a small weight of hydrogen takes up a lot of space and doesn't get you very far.

Or much better yet, lug around a dozen or two dozen gallons of gasoline. Far safer, and far more effective as far as carrying around a reasonable amount of available energy in a reasonable weight and volume, that neither batteries nor hydrogen can come anywhere close to matching.

 

[Robert W]

Why lug around a ton to two tons of batteries when you can lug a small weight in hydrogen?

Because a small weight of hydrogen takes up a lot of space and doesn't get you very far.

Incorrect. But why would you want a large space to store Hydrogen gas when it can be easily compressed? Modern tanks are small enough that Toyota fits them into ordinary cars.

Folks, this is what I mean about those who are not problem solvers. They seem to especially know smart ass statements.

Two tons of batteries can carry the car for hundreds of miles. But take plenty of time to recharge. What if you arrive at the destination and the family you visit has no charging capability? What if they live in a 20 story apartment building?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Incorrect. But why would you want a large space to store Hydrogen gas when it can be easily compressed? Modern tanks are small enough that Toyota fits them into ordinary cars.

Excellent. So, you want hydrogen, because it's lighter than a battery?
Is it lighter than gasoline?

 

[Robert W]

Or much better yet, lug around a dozen or two dozen gallons of gasoline. Far safer, and far more effective as far as carrying around a reasonable amount of available energy in a reasonable weight and volume, that neither batteries nor hydrogen can come anywhere close to matching.

Bob, what I am envisioning is the day into the future when liquid fuels like Gasoline are not readily available. I know it does not look like it but I have since 1957 saw the day of the electric vehicle being common. But then I was favoring the electricity coming from using hydrogen. Hydrogen may never run out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But then I was favoring the electricity coming from using hydrogen. Hydrogen may never run out.

Huh? Hydrogen has to be manufactured from scratch.
Useful H2 on Earth ran out a long time ago.

 

[Robert W]

Excellent. So, you want hydrogen, because it's lighter than a battery?
Is it lighter than gasoline?

A typical fuel cell electric vehicle or hydrogen car tank capacity is around 4-6 kg of hydrogen and the weight of the hydrogen tank is around 100 kg.Jan 15, 2023

Hydrogen Tank - Type I-IV | Suppliers, Products & Know-how​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A typical fuel cell electric vehicle or hydrogen car tank capacity is around 4-6 kg of hydrogen and the weight of the hydrogen tank is around 100 kg.Jan 15, 2023

Hydrogen Tank - Type I-IV | Suppliers, Products & Know-how​

Ok, how far will you travel with 6 kg of hydrogen?

 

[Robert W]

Huh? Hydrogen has to be manufactured from scratch.
Useful H2 on Earth ran out a long time ago.

Here on earth, vast numbers of hydrogen atoms are contained in water, plants, animals and, of course, humans. But while it's present in nearly all molecules in living things, it's very scarce as a gas – less than one part per million by volume.Feb 23, 2023

What is hydrogen? | Hydrogen energy explained - National Grid​

 

[Robert W]

Ok, how far will you travel with 6 kg of hydrogen?

What is the range of hydrogen car per kg?


The car takes about 4 kg to 5 kg of hydrogen and can offer up to 650 kilometres of range. That's almost a similar range offered by a petrol/diesel car. Such a range from just 4-5 kg of hydrogen may seem unbelievable, but it's true. In comparison, a CNG car on a full tank of 8 kg can run only about 230-250 km.Mar 22, 2022

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here on earth, vast numbers of hydrogen atoms are contained in water, plants, animals and, of course, humans. But while it's present in nearly all molecules in living things, it's very scarce as a gas – less than one part per million by volume.Feb 23, 2023

What is hydrogen? | Hydrogen energy explained - National Grid​

Yes, that's why calling it an energy source is silly.

 

[Robert W]

Yes, that's why calling it an energy source is silly.

Here on earth, vast numbers of hydrogen atoms are contained in water, plants, animals and, of course, humans.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here on earth, vast numbers of hydrogen atoms are contained in water, plants, animals and, of course, humans.

Yes, and none of them are H2.

 

[Robert W]

Yes, and none of them are H2.

My golly molly, so there is no H2 on this planet???? Nice of you to inform us.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

My golly molly, so there is no H2 on this planet???? Nice of you to inform us.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

No, there is basically no free H2 available on Earth.
We have to manufacture it.

 

[Robert W]

No, there is basically no free H2 available on Earth.
We have to manufacture it.

We also manufacture toothbrushes and automobiles. So why do you act as if one can't manufacture a lot of hydrogen?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We also manufacture toothbrushes and automobiles. So why do you act as if one can't manufacture a lot of hydrogen?

Yes, we can. So why should we do it?
Is it cheaper? No.
Does it save energy? No.
Does it reduce CO2? Maybe.

So, what's the purpose?

 

[Robert W]

Yes, we can. So why should we do it?
Is it cheaper? No.
Does it save energy? No.
Does it reduce CO2? Maybe.

So, what's the purpose?

Homepage | Hydrogen Council

There’s no climate solution without clean hydrogen. And there’s no clean hydrogen without action. Hydrogen Council is the global voice of clean hydrogen action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Ghkql132M Hydrogen is the missing piece of the clean energy puzzle The race to decarbonize our planet...

hydrogencouncil.com

Hydrogen can...​

Store more clean energy without weighing us down.

Save more clean energy without going to waste.

And decarbonize where we never thought possible.