If God Doesn’t Exist

[Meriweather]

Laws make for a nice society and a deity isn't necessary.

Cicero (106-43 BC) once observed, "The more laws, the less justice."

 

[buttercup]

Look at the natural world. It's a place of tooth and claw and cold-blooded murder. There is no good or bad, just brutal biological necessity. This was the garden of Eden that birthed mankind. It is man that brought purpose to existence and through the millennia has refined morality to the point that religon is no longer needed to provide social structure. If God ever did anything it was to create us into a world full of senseless brutality. it was us, not him, that turned chaos into order.

That is blatantly and demonstrably false. Read Genesis 1 and 2, in the very beginning, in the Garden of Eden, mankind AND animals were herbivores, there was peace and harmony, and everything was "VERY GOOD." (Gen 1:31) Have you never heard the Garden of Eden referred to as Paradise? THAT was God's design and intent.

Mankind screwed it all up, bringing violence and murder into the world, so your whole post is as backwards as can be. You actually have the audacity to give humans the credit for good things while simultaneously accusing God of creating us into a world of senseless brutality? lol. You are either ignorant, or blatantly dishonest. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former.

 

[buttercup]

More absurdities.

He was pointing out the absurdity. And he was absolutely correct. Without an objective standard, there is no true difference in the morality of a saint and the "morality" of Stalin.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Cicero (106-43 BC) once observed, "The more laws, the less justice."

And god's is VERY BASIC

 

[BreezeWood]

That is blatantly and demonstrably false. Read Genesis 1 and 2, in the very beginning, in the Garden of Eden, mankind AND animals were herbivores, there was peace and harmony, and everything was "VERY GOOD." (Gen 1:31) Have you never heard the Garden of Eden referred to as Paradise? THAT was God's design and intent.

Mankind screwed it all up, bringing violence and murder into the world, so your whole post is as backwards as can be. You actually have the audacity to give humans the credit for good things while simultaneously accusing God of creating us into a world of senseless brutality? lol. You are either ignorant, or blatantly dishonest. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former.

That is blatantly and demonstrably false. Read Genesis 1 and 2, in the very beginning,

.
sorry, moses is a proven liar and also committed murder ... you'd be best served by not having anything to do with such a character.

 

[occupied]

That is blatantly and demonstrably false. Read Genesis 1 and 2, in the very beginning, in the Garden of Eden, mankind AND animals were herbivores, there was peace and harmony, and everything was "VERY GOOD." (Gen 1:31) Have you never heard the Garden of Eden referred to as Paradise? THAT was God's design and intent.

Mankind screwed it all up, bringing violence and murder into the world, so your whole post is as backwards as can be. You actually have the audacity to give humans the credit for good things while simultaneously accusing God of creating us into a world of senseless brutality? lol. You are either ignorant, or blatantly dishonest. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former.

I didn't accuse God of anything other than being an absentee deadbeat dad. Like all abandoned children have a mix of adoration and contempt for a father figure that never had any interest in us.

 

[Disir]

Cicero (106-43 BC) once observed, "The more laws, the less justice."

The first legal code before the Abrahamic religions lists the equivalent of thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not kill. Because laws make for a nice society.

 

[BreezeWood]

The first legal code before the Abrahamic religions lists the equivalent of thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not kill. Because laws make for a nice society.

"The more laws, the less justice."

The first legal code before the Abrahamic religions lists the equivalent of thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not steal. Because laws make for a nice society.

.
laws are justice, not how many how they are employed - - >

meriweather justice, mob rule by the sinners.

 

[Disir]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

Of course you know better

Among the surviving laws are these:[5]

• 1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
• 2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
• 3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.[1]
• 4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household.^
• 5. If a slave marries a native (i.e. free) person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner.
• 6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.
• 7. If the wife of a man followed after another man and he slept with her, they shall slay that woman, but that male shall be set free. (§4 in some translations)
• 8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin female slave of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver. (5)
• 9. If a man divorces his first-time wife, he shall pay (her) one mina of silver. (6)
• 10. If it is a (former) widow whom he divorces, he shall pay (her) half a mina of silver. (7)
• 11. If the man had slept with the widow without there having been any marriage contract, he need not pay any silver. (8)
• 13. If a man is accused of [Translation of word disputed. some interpret as Sorcery...], he must undergo ordeal by water; if he is proven innocent, his accuser must pay 3 shekels. (10)[6]
• 14. If a man accused the wife of a man of adultery, and the river ordeal proved her innocent, then the man who had accused her must pay one-third of a mina of silver. (11)
• 15. If a prospective son-in-law enters the house of his prospective father-in-law, but his father-in-law later gives his daughter to another man, the father-in-law shall return to the rejected son-in-law twofold the amount of bridal presents he had brought. (12)
• 16. If [text destroyed...], he shall weigh and deliver to him 2 shekels of silver.
• 17. If a slave escapes from the city limits, and someone returns him, the owner shall pay two shekels to the one who returned him. (14)
• 18. If a man knocks out the eye of another man, he shall weigh out ½ a mina of silver. (15)
• 19. If a man has cut off another man's foot, he is to pay ten shekels. (16)
• 20. If a man, in the course of a scuffle, smashed the limb of another man with a club, he shall pay one mina of silver. (17)
• 21. If someone severed the nose of another man with a copper knife, he must pay two-thirds of a mina of silver. (18)
• 22. If a man knocks out a tooth of another man, he shall pay two shekels of silver. (19)
• 24. [text destroyed...] If he does not have a slave, he is to pay 10 shekels of silver. If he does not have silver, he is to give another thing that belongs to him. (21)^
• 25. If a man's slave-woman, comparing herself to her mistress, speaks insolently to her, her mouth shall be scoured with 1 quart of salt. (22)
• 26. If a slave woman strikes someone acting with the authority of her mistress, [text destroyed...]
• 28. If a man appeared as a witness, and was shown to be a perjurer, he must pay fifteen shekels of silver. (25)
• 29. If a man appears as a witness, but withdraws his oath, he must make payment, to the extent of the value in litigation of the case. (26)
• 30. If a man stealthily cultivates the field of another man and he raises a complaint, this is however to be rejected, and this man will lose his expenses. (27)
• 31. If a man flooded the field of a man with water, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field. (28)
• 32. If a man had let an arable field to a(nother) man for cultivation, but he did not cultivate it, turning it into wasteland, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field. (

Code of Ur-Nammu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People have sucked from the way back and the get go.

 

[Moonglow]

He was pointing out the absurdity. And he was absolutely correct. Without an objective standard, there is no true difference in the morality of a saint and the "morality" of Stalin.

That objective standard is responsible for the majority of humans dying, the only greater force or human death is bacteria..What was the moral justification for slaughtering the indigenous humans in the US when Europeans decided they wanted it for themselves. These "Christian" nations and people had no morality when it came to taking what is not theirs..

 

[Moonglow]

And god's is VERY BASIC

Yes, he likes to murder those that do not tow his line...

 

[JoeB131]

Morality is subjective without a God determining the basis. Stalin was just as moral as you are.

Okay, let's look at that.

If we went by "God's" morality in the old testament.

We'd execute children for talking back to their parents. -- Leviticus 20:9
We'd execute girls for not being virgins on their wedding day. Deuteronomy 22:13-22
We'd execute our neighbors for working on Sunday Exodus 31:14
We'd execute people for being gay Leviticus 20:13
We'd execute people for committing adultery. Leviticus 20:10
We'd execute rape victims for not crying out loud enough - -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

These are the laws your "God" came up with. The people who did these things thought they were righteous and moral.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Okay, let's look at that.

If we went by "God's" morality in the old testament.

We'd execute children for talking back to their parents. -- Leviticus 20:9
We'd execute girls for not being virgins on their wedding day. Deuteronomy 22:13-22
We'd execute our neighbors for working on Sunday Exodus 31:14
We'd execute people for being gay Leviticus 20:13
We'd execute people for committing adultery. Leviticus 20:10
We'd execute rape victims for not crying out loud enough - -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

These are the laws your "God" came up with. The people who did these things thought they were righteous and moral.

So? Rules of ancient days laid down that everyone understood.
Again, you're applying your version of morality. Caaninites believed putting babies on the red hot steel statue of Baal was a good and moral thing to do.

 

[Quentin111]

If God Doesn’t Exist, we should construct Them! For example by Artificial Intelligence.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

As sentient beings we know what's right and wrong, and it can differ based on religion, culture, etc. No God is required to acknowledge that hurting another human being is wrong.

And yet, the godless of many cultures, and even within our own, are perfectly fine with certain acts that seriously harm,or even destroy other human beings with no need and no just cause.

Abortion is probably the most perfect example, to be found in our own culture. You would think that even without acknowledging God, that killing an innocent and defenseless child for no better reason than that his existence is a burden or an inconvenience to someone else, should be unthinkable. But here we are.

This is where moral relativism leads. This is where denying God leads.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

People thought murder was wrong long before most of them started believing in Jehovah, who was only a regional tribal god before 1700 years ago.

God made his position on the matter quite clear, after Cain murdered Abel, long before any culture existed that would try to create a moral standard separate from what God revealed.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

This is why it is so easy for leftists to slip into communism, socialism, fascism and anarchy

Why is it so easy for pigs to wallow in mud, or for flies to eat shit?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Again, you're applying your version of morality. Caaninites believed putting babies on the red hot steel statue of Baal was a good and moral thing to do.

It's worth noting that you are pointing this out to one of the staunchest defenders of the closest modern counterpart to Baalian child sacrifice.

 

[anynameyouwish]

If God doesn’t exist, the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. In such a case, human life is no more valuable than dust, and there is no basis for saying that any life matters. Only if there is an author of life who creates and imbues us with a meaning greater than our physical parts can lives actually matter, and in an equal way.

If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong. If we’re all just the product of blind, purposeless forces, morality is just an opinion. Unless there is a higher-than-human moral authority, no one has a basis for claiming that murder is objectively wrong.

And finally, if God doesn’t exist, the concept of justice is meaningless because there can be no right or wrong in the first place to require justice. As C.S. Lewis famously said about his conversion to Christianity, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” Justice requires a standard, and there is no objective standard in a purposeless universe.

5 Ways Christians are Getting Swept into a Secular Worldview in This Cultural Moment

Culture is influencing the church's response more than the church is influencing culture.

christianmomthoughts.com

" If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong "

I see.

You admit that the only reason you don't kill people, or rape and steal is because you are afraid god will punish you.


That makes me a better person. I don't NEED to fear god in order to behave like a civilized person.

I don't kill or steal or rape because those are TERRIBLE things that NONE OF US should ever do....

YOU don't kill or steal or rape because you fear god

 

[Blues Man]

If God doesn’t exist, the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. In such a case, human life is no more valuable than dust, and there is no basis for saying that any life matters. Only if there is an author of life who creates and imbues us with a meaning greater than our physical parts can lives actually matter, and in an equal way.

If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong. If we’re all just the product of blind, purposeless forces, morality is just an opinion. Unless there is a higher-than-human moral authority, no one has a basis for claiming that murder is objectively wrong.

And finally, if God doesn’t exist, the concept of justice is meaningless because there can be no right or wrong in the first place to require justice. As C.S. Lewis famously said about his conversion to Christianity, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” Justice requires a standard, and there is no objective standard in a purposeless universe.

5 Ways Christians are Getting Swept into a Secular Worldview in This Cultural Moment

Culture is influencing the church's response more than the church is influencing culture.

christianmomthoughts.com

The only beings who think human life is valuable are human beings.

The Universe doesn't give a shit about us.

We have been in existence in less than a blink on cosmological time and will be gone in but another blink probably by our own doing.