If God Doesn’t Exist

[TNHarley]

Which god do you speak of?

 

[Blackrook]

As sentient beings we know what's right and wrong, and it can differ based on religion, culture, etc. No God is required to acknowledge that hurting another human being is wrong.

Explain abortion.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

As sentient beings we know what's right and wrong, and it can differ based on religion, culture, etc. No God is required to acknowledge that hurting another human being is wrong.

Explain abortion.

It's easy to justify hurting, or even killing another human being, if you can convince yourself that your victim isn't really a human being.

That's how early Americans justified our treatment of Blacks and Indians. That's how Nazis justified their treatment of Jews and other untermenschen. That's how abortion supporters justify abortion.

 

[Bruce Daniels]

If God doesn’t exist, the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. In such a case, human life is no more valuable than dust, and there is no basis for saying that any life matters. Only if there is an author of life who creates and imbues us with a meaning greater than our physical parts can lives actually matter, and in an equal way.

If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong. If we’re all just the product of blind, purposeless forces, morality is just an opinion. Unless there is a higher-than-human moral authority, no one has a basis for claiming that murder is objectively wrong.

And finally, if God doesn’t exist, the concept of justice is meaningless because there can be no right or wrong in the first place to require justice. As C.S. Lewis famously said about his conversion to Christianity, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” Justice requires a standard, and there is no objective standard in a purposeless universe.

5 Ways Christians are Getting Swept into a Secular Worldview in This Cultural Moment

Culture is influencing the church's response more than the church is influencing culture.

christianmomthoughts.com

Your postulate is flawed. Yes, God doesn't exist, and the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. But it doesn't follow that this renders a human life no more valuable than dust. Why would it? A human being can think; dust cannot. You don't need a Creator to imbue you with meaning. YOU give your life meaning.

I also disagree that there are no objective standards if God doesn't exist. Morality is not just an opinion. It's a rational way to organize society. The universe may indeed be purposeless, but human civilization doesn't have to be that way. WE can make the society that we want, and we can certainly make a society that has the values that we choose.

 

[JoeB131]

As sentient beings we know what's right and wrong, and it can differ based on religion, culture, etc. No God is required to acknowledge that hurting another human being is wrong.

Explain abortion.

Fetuses aren't people.
Abortion was seen throughout history as just another form of birth control. Even when it was "illegal" they never arrested anyone for murder for having or performing one.
Nowhere in the bible does it say abortion is bad.

 

[JoeB131]

That's how early Americans justified our treatment of Blacks and Indians

Says the guy who belongs to a cult that preaches that Blacks and Indians have dark skin because God Cursed them.

That's how Nazis justified their treatment of Jews and other untermenschen.

Well, that and the Bible says straight up the Jews killed Jesus. Martin Luther, the founder of German Protestantism, wrote a book called, "The Jews and their lies" But, no, the Christians had nothing to do with the holocaust. It's not like they were wearing belt buckles that said, "God's With Us" on them.

Oh,shit.

It's easy to justify hurting, or even killing another human being, if you can convince yourself that your victim isn't really a human being.

That's how abortion supporters justify abortion.

Here's your problem, Mormon Bob. Even when abortion was illegal in most states, before Roe v. Wade, they did not treat the killing of a fetus like "Murder". Women were never charged with a crime for having an abortion, and doctors who performed them were only charged if they messed up and injured the woman.

When Abortion Was a Crime

An excerpt from Leslie J. Reagan's book on abortion

www.theatlantic.com

Through most of history, abortion was seen as just another form of contraception, and all contraception was seen as bad because most Christian cultures saw a woman's primary function in life was to make babies. Almost no one sane today would see contraception as a bad thing.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If God doesn’t exist, the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. In such a case, human life is no more valuable than dust, and there is no basis for saying that any life matters. Only if there is an author of life who creates and imbues us with a meaning greater than our physical parts can lives actually matter, and in an equal way.

If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong. If we’re all just the product of blind, purposeless forces, morality is just an opinion. Unless there is a higher-than-human moral authority, no one has a basis for claiming that murder is objectively wrong.

And finally, if God doesn’t exist, the concept of justice is meaningless because there can be no right or wrong in the first place to require justice. As C.S. Lewis famously said about his conversion to Christianity, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” Justice requires a standard, and there is no objective standard in a purposeless universe.

5 Ways Christians are Getting Swept into a Secular Worldview in This Cultural Moment

Culture is influencing the church's response more than the church is influencing culture.

christianmomthoughts.com

Your postulate is flawed. Yes, God doesn't exist, and the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. But it doesn't follow that this renders a human life no more valuable than dust. Why would it? A human being can think; dust cannot. You don't need a Creator to imbue you with meaning. YOU give your life meaning.

I also disagree that there are no objective standards if God doesn't exist. Morality is not just an opinion. It's a rational way to organize society. The universe may indeed be purposeless, but human civilization doesn't have to be that way. WE can make the society that we want, and we can certainly make a society that has the values that we choose.

What is thought?
Mere electrical impulses of energy.

Your point is moot.

 

[Weatherman2020]

That's how early Americans justified our treatment of Blacks and Indians

Says the guy who belongs to a cult that preaches that Blacks and Indians have dark skin because God Cursed them.

That's how Nazis justified their treatment of Jews and other untermenschen.

Well, that and the Bible says straight up the Jews killed Jesus. Martin Luther, the founder of German Protestantism, wrote a book called, "The Jews and their lies" But, no, the Christians had nothing to do with the holocaust. It's not like they were wearing belt buckles that said, "God's With Us" on them.

View attachment 354366
Oh,shit.

It's easy to justify hurting, or even killing another human being, if you can convince yourself that your victim isn't really a human being.

That's how abortion supporters justify abortion.

Here's your problem, Mormon Bob. Even when abortion was illegal in most states, before Roe v. Wade, they did not treat the killing of a fetus like "Murder". Women were never charged with a crime for having an abortion, and doctors who performed them were only charged if they messed up and injured the woman.

When Abortion Was a Crime

An excerpt from Leslie J. Reagan's book on abortion

www.theatlantic.com

Through most of history, abortion was seen as just another form of contraception, and all contraception was seen as bad because most Christian cultures saw a woman's primary function in life was to make babies. Almost no one sane today would see contraception as a bad thing.

Man, you are one ignoramus on all topics.
A. The Jewish leadership wanted Jesus dead because he was a threat to their power. The Romans crucified Jesus. Who willingly let it happen.

B. The use of the Christian faith by the NAZI’s to control the masses is no different how the American Left uses accusations of racism to control the masses. It’s all about fear and manipulation. Not one NAZI leader was a devout Christian.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If God doesn’t exist, the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. In such a case, human life is no more valuable than dust, and there is no basis for saying that any life matters. Only if there is an author of life who creates and imbues us with a meaning greater than our physical parts can lives actually matter, and in an equal way.

If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong. If we’re all just the product of blind, purposeless forces, morality is just an opinion. Unless there is a higher-than-human moral authority, no one has a basis for claiming that murder is objectively wrong.

And finally, if God doesn’t exist, the concept of justice is meaningless because there can be no right or wrong in the first place to require justice. As C.S. Lewis famously said about his conversion to Christianity, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” Justice requires a standard, and there is no objective standard in a purposeless universe.

5 Ways Christians are Getting Swept into a Secular Worldview in This Cultural Moment

Culture is influencing the church's response more than the church is influencing culture.

christianmomthoughts.com

The only ones who believe all that nonsense are christians.

There's nothing "by chance" about the universe, evolution is not "undirected" [sic],

" blind, purposeless forces" is probably true and its opposiot of what christians believe.

"morality IS an opinion" and "the concept of justice IS meaningless." I would add that there's no such thing as "sin". All are human constructs.

Another one I see from the thumpers is that non-theists believe 'the universe was formed out of nothing. In fact, that's what christians believe.

In any event, you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want but you do not have the right to constantly try to force it on others. And that is not an opinion.

I agree that the universe is not by mere chance. So who do you credit the existence of the universe to?

 

[JoeB131]

Man, you are one ignoramus on all topics.
A. The Jewish leadership wanted Jesus dead because he was a threat to their power. The Romans crucified Jesus. Who willingly let it happen.

Jesus never existed, and the Gospels are Roman- approved propaganda. A real tell, the Gospels- especially John's - make Pontius Pilate seem like a good guy... but every other history indicates he was kind of a bastard who Tiberius had to recall because he almost lost control of the province.

B. The use of the Christian faith by the NAZI’s to control the masses is no different how the American Left uses accusations of racism to control the masses. It’s all about fear and manipulation. Not one NAZI leader was a devout Christian.

Here's the problem with that. Not one Christian Leader got up on a pulpit and said, "The Nazis are totally not what Jesus was about!!!" The Pope never denounced Hitler.

Just like way too many "Christians" look at Trump throwing kids into concentration camps and think he's right with Jesus.

Nice thing about having an Imaginary Friend in the sky, he'll always agree with you.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Man, you are one ignoramus on all topics.
A. The Jewish leadership wanted Jesus dead because he was a threat to their power. The Romans crucified Jesus. Who willingly let it happen.

Jesus never existed, and the Gospels are Roman- approved propaganda. A real tell, the Gospels- especially John's - make Pontius Pilate seem like a good guy... but every other history indicates he was kind of a bastard who Tiberius had to recall because he almost lost control of the province.

B. The use of the Christian faith by the NAZI’s to control the masses is no different how the American Left uses accusations of racism to control the masses. It’s all about fear and manipulation. Not one NAZI leader was a devout Christian.

Here's the problem with that. Not one Christian Leader got up on a pulpit and said, "The Nazis are totally not what Jesus was about!!!" The Pope never denounced Hitler.

Just like way too many "Christians" look at Trump throwing kids into concentration camps and think he's right with Jesus.

Nice thing about having an Imaginary Friend in the sky, he'll always agree with you.

Good one! Historian Josephus just made up stuff and Mohammed wrote about the existence of Jesus because he was a closet Christian!

Your desperation is hilarious.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Man, you are one ignoramus on all topics.
A. The Jewish leadership wanted Jesus dead because he was a threat to their power. The Romans crucified Jesus. Who willingly let it happen.

Jesus never existed, and the Gospels are Roman- approved propaganda. A real tell, the Gospels- especially John's - make Pontius Pilate seem like a good guy... but every other history indicates he was kind of a bastard who Tiberius had to recall because he almost lost control of the province.

B. The use of the Christian faith by the NAZI’s to control the masses is no different how the American Left uses accusations of racism to control the masses. It’s all about fear and manipulation. Not one NAZI leader was a devout Christian.

Here's the problem with that. Not one Christian Leader got up on a pulpit and said, "The Nazis are totally not what Jesus was about!!!" The Pope never denounced Hitler.

Just like way too many "Christians" look at Trump throwing kids into concentration camps and think he's right with Jesus.

Nice thing about having an Imaginary Friend in the sky, he'll always agree with you.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Pastor, Spy, Martyr.
Educate yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Good one! Historian Josephus just made up stuff and Mohammed wrote about the existence of Jesus because he was a closet Christian!

Mentions of Jesus in Josephus were added later by Medieval Transcribers.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 18, states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate. It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum.[1][3][4] Almost all modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while the majority of scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to Christian interpolation and/or alteration.

Mohammed wrote a time when Christianity had been established for centuries.

The same can be said of other references to Jesus. Either they were written centuries later or they were altered by Christian transcribers.

 

[JoeB131]

Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Pastor, Spy, Martyr.
Educate yourself.

Who? Who cares? Was he a Bishop or Cardinal or Pope? Nope. He was the leader of a splinter group within Lutheranism... one that maybe had a few dozen members before the Nazis took them all out.

Hitler only became "Bad" when he lost...

 

[Weatherman2020]

Good one! Historian Josephus just made up stuff and Mohammed wrote about the existence of Jesus because he was a closet Christian!

Mentions of Jesus in Josephus were added later by Medieval Transcribers.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 18, states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate. It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum.[1][3][4] Almost all modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while the majority of scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to Christian interpolation and/or alteration.

Mohammed wrote a time when Christianity had been established for centuries.

The same can be said of other references to Jesus. Either they were written centuries later or they were altered by Christian transcribers.

No linky?
Of course not. You know it’s BS.
Tell us why they fabricated Jesus just so they could all be tortured to death.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Pastor, Spy, Martyr.
Educate yourself.

Who? Who cares? Was he a Bishop or Cardinal or Pope? Nope. He was the leader of a splinter group within Lutheranism... one that maybe had a few dozen members before the Nazis took them all out.

Hitler only became "Bad" when he lost...

Like the Left stand up to fascism by promoting it and their leadership?

How many wreaths have you placed at the Lenin statue?

 

[JoeB131]

No linky?
Of course not. You know it’s BS.
Tell us why they fabricated Jesus just so they could all be tortured to death.

There was a link.

They fabricated Jesus from multiple sources, but when they made it the "official" religion in the fourth century, they had to get their story straight. So 200 or so Gospels were rejected, and only the four that told the Story Constantine wanted to tell were kept.

Also- the stories about Christians getting thrown to lions. All myths. There's just nothing sporting about watching a person getting eaten by a lion.

 

[JoeB131]

Like the Left stand up to fascism by promoting it and their leadership?

How many wreaths have you placed at the Lenin statue?

quit trying to change the subject, buddy. The fact is, most Christians in Germany were just fine with what Hitler was doing. Most of the countries in Europe were happy to turn over their Jews... The Pope and all the clergy said nothing until AFTER the war was over.

The Nazis said, "Gott Mit Uns" and the Christian Churches didn't contradict them. Neither did God. I mean, a good thing that the Godless Red Army defeated them, otherwise we'd all be speaking German today. Ugh. Ever try to learn German?

 

[Weatherman2020]

No linky?
Of course not. You know it’s BS.
Tell us why they fabricated Jesus just so they could all be tortured to death.

There was a link.

They fabricated Jesus from multiple sources, but when they made it the "official" religion in the fourth century, they had to get their story straight. So 200 or so Gospels were rejected, and only the four that told the Story Constantine wanted to tell were kept.

Also- the stories about Christians getting thrown to lions. All myths. There's just nothing sporting about watching a person getting eaten by a lion.

Your link:
while the majority of scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the execution of Jesus by Pilate

But if you like I can go change the Wiki entry.
BTW: Pilot was also said to be a fictional character.
Until they recently found direct evidence he did exist....

 

[Weatherman2020]

Like the Left stand up to fascism by promoting it and their leadership?

How many wreaths have you placed at the Lenin statue?

quit trying to change the subject, buddy. The fact is, most Christians in Germany were just fine with what Hitler was doing. Most of the countries in Europe were happy to turn over their Jews... The Pope and all the clergy said nothing until AFTER the war was over.

The Nazis said, "Gott Mit Uns" and the Christian Churches didn't contradict them. Neither did God. I mean, a good thing that the Godless Red Army defeated them, otherwise we'd all be speaking German today. Ugh. Ever try to learn German?

Hilarious. You’re blathering about people and NAZIs. Topic is the existence of God.