If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[PredFan]

Do we not recognize the "right to life"?

Are we not capable of providing basic healthcare to all citizens?

What facts am I leaving out?

Conservatives believe that if you treat the poor badly enough, they will be 'inspired' to stop being poor. lol

And if you give them incentives to being poor, why would they try any harder in life?

What "incentive" to being poor is preferable to being rich (or at least middle class)?

The incentive to not have to have responsibility, not have to wake up early in the day, having all the free time you want, not having anyone tell you what to do.

And on and on.

Those are the incentives to being poor?

Funny, those people who work full time - and beyond - and are still poor.

So they are poor, have to get up early, have limited free time, have people who tell them what to do.

What makes them do it?

They aren't really poor. They are labeled as such by arbitrary limits selected for political purposes.

 

[PredFan]

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.....

...Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Then please stay in thst country and keep your nose out of American Society. It may be a Right in your country, but it most definitely is not here. If it ever becomes one, I'll be dead.

She claims it is a right in her country, BUT she says she wasn't born with that right. How the fuck does that happen? Well, it happens because the government gives them health care now but didn't when she was born. In other words, that colossal idiot thinks rights come from government.

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

Health care has been a right in the USA ever since Reagan signed the EMTAL Act in 1986.

Nope, not at all true.

 

[PredFan]

Do we not recognize the "right to life"?

Are we not capable of providing basic healthcare to all citizens?

What facts am I leaving out?

Conservatives believe that if you treat the poor badly enough, they will be 'inspired' to stop being poor. lol

And if you give them incentives to being poor, why would they try any harder in life?

What "incentive" to being poor is preferable to being rich (or at least middle class)?

Well, I get up every morning and go to work. I do that so I can live in the suburbs with a roof over my head and dinner on the table. The house next door to me? HUD. They don't work, they don't produce, they have kids that we taxpayers have to support, they are fatter than I am and I don't believe it's from fine dining at four start restaurants.

The more kids you have, the more food stamps, the larger the HUD house, the larger the welfare checks.

So we'll take our two households as an example. We both live the same kind of lives, but I have to work 45 hours a week plus being a landlord, and they don't have to do squat because my money that I work for goes to support them, and yes, I'm sure they get medical care which I DON"T have thanks to Commie Care.

You're like a fucking broken record. And how many vacations have they been able to take their family on? Can they buy the brand new gaming systems other families do? How many new cars do they have? How often do they get to go out to dinner at a nice restaurant? Do you think they are proud parents to their children because they can't afford to do simple things like take their kids to a movie like their kid's friend's parents can?

The sad thing in all this is, you actually think that people enjoy being poor so that they can get HUD and Food Stamps... despite the fact they can't actually get the things that others enjoy in life.

You must be one miserable son of a bitch to be around in real life sitting at your front window watching people in your neighborhood complaining about everything they do.

He is correct, and you are full of shit. It's logic, observation, and facts.

 

[Rustic]

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

BTW... I have no right to healthcare, but I do have a right to earn my healthcare. Keep your fucking socialist shit to yourselves. Lol

You already have Medicare and the VA hospitals. What you don't have is Medicare for all. It would be substantially cheaper than giving insurance companies 20% of your health care dollars.

Medicare and the VA are an absolute joke, basically criminal behavior by the federal government… LOL

 

[Rustic]

Well, other industrialized nations can afford it. Of course most of them aren't engaged in the costly wars for profit that we are. Then there's our for sale politicians in league with the health insurers. Even obama, who people call a liberal, made sure that the ACA kept them in the game.







Universal healthcare is a GREAT idea. Now. How do we afford it?

They are orders of magnitude smaller than we are, and the ones that actually are able to afford are also oil rich. Norway has a population less than that of the State of Minnesota. California has a population of 37 million give or take, and they calculated the cost of giving universal health care at 400 billion. Their current TOTAL state budget is 185 billion. So, where do you get the rest of it?

Here's a quick list of countries with universal health care below. What good is it calling ourselves great if we can't do something as basic as keeping our own citizens healthy?

View attachment 137813
Countries with universal health care include Austria,Belarus, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland,France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy,Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, the Netherlands,Norway, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain,Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

Canada's system is so great that their politicians would rather come here to the USA, and PAY for their care, than wait for their surgeries back home. Not exactly a compelling argument. Take a look at the quality of their health care, and I mean look at the problems, not the rosy tales that you are limiting yourself to. And then get back to us.

Thousands of Americans travel to foreign countries for healthcare because of the lower costs.

True, and there is nothing wrong with that. It just proves we do not need a socialist healthcare here. Fuck that

 

[Lewdog]

Conservatives believe that if you treat the poor badly enough, they will be 'inspired' to stop being poor. lol

And if you give them incentives to being poor, why would they try any harder in life?

What "incentive" to being poor is preferable to being rich (or at least middle class)?

Well, I get up every morning and go to work. I do that so I can live in the suburbs with a roof over my head and dinner on the table. The house next door to me? HUD. They don't work, they don't produce, they have kids that we taxpayers have to support, they are fatter than I am and I don't believe it's from fine dining at four start restaurants.

The more kids you have, the more food stamps, the larger the HUD house, the larger the welfare checks.

So we'll take our two households as an example. We both live the same kind of lives, but I have to work 45 hours a week plus being a landlord, and they don't have to do squat because my money that I work for goes to support them, and yes, I'm sure they get medical care which I DON"T have thanks to Commie Care.

You're like a fucking broken record. And how many vacations have they been able to take their family on? Can they buy the brand new gaming systems other families do? How many new cars do they have? How often do they get to go out to dinner at a nice restaurant? Do you think they are proud parents to their children because they can't afford to do simple things like take their kids to a movie like their kid's friend's parents can?

The sad thing in all this is, you actually think that people enjoy being poor so that they can get HUD and Food Stamps... despite the fact they can't actually get the things that others enjoy in life.

You must be one miserable son of a bitch to be around in real life sitting at your front window watching people in your neighborhood complaining about everything they do.

He is correct, and you are full of shit. It's logic, observation, and facts.

He's wrong, and even someone like Westwall will tell you that a couple of firsthand observations doesn't make something a fact.

 

[Rustic]

I am for the rule of law, not emotion.

Another excuse. The U.S. is the richest country in the world and all the countries in the world with the top life expectancy and quality of life have universal healthcare.

The country is not rich--we have people that are rich. Our country is 20 trillion in debt, and I would hardly call that rich.

So when you say we are the richest country in the world, what you really mean is that we have the richest people in the world--and that is true. However, just because we have the richest people in the world does not mean they should be footing the bill for those that are not rich.

Then you reject public education?

Which, if you think about it, is universal education, using the healthcare terminology.

I don't reject public education, I do reject how it's paid for......at least in our state.

Our schools are funded by property taxes--not if or how many children you have in the school system. In fact I filed a complaint about my property taxes and I have a hearing date setup in a few weeks. So what happened after I got the date? The Board of Education sent me a notice they are sending their sleezy lawyers to the hearing to fight me on it.

I have never had children in my life. None of my tenants ever had children in the public school system. Yet we collectively are paying three times the amount of money to the schools than the lady down the street with four kids in the system. That's unfair.

Schools should be funded mostly by the parents. There is your universal school system. Taxing me for something I'll never use is plain robbery. I decided early in life never to have children mostly because of the expense. If you have children, then you should pay for their education--not me.

So you believe the poor should go without an education - if the parents can't afford it - AND without healthcare, if the parents can't afford it.

See, AGAIN, what I mean? It's all about widening the gap between rich and poor with these RWnuts.

NOWHERE in their agenda do you see anything that contradicts that statement.

Nobody should be forced to pay for other peoples shit… this is not a village, fuck the village

 

[NYcarbineer]

Your opinion, and not based on anything factual at all.

Do we not recognize the "right to life"?

Are we not capable of providing basic healthcare to all citizens?

What facts am I leaving out?

Conservatives believe that if you treat the poor badly enough, they will be 'inspired' to stop being poor. lol

I noticed that. Because it's that simple.....

They believe that denying poor children healthcare will keep their own taxes low,

and give them more money to buy their own children better toys.

Another lie you tell yourself.

Really? You don't wish your taxes were lower? And that you didn't have to pay taxes to help low income people?

 

[Rustic]

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

See Pred, that just shows how clueless leftists really are, lol.

I heard a great example of why the healthcare system needs competition, not government interference--------->

How many Americans would like a Corvette? What do they cost? Lets say; for the sake of argument, they average 70,000 bucks!

That is NOT fair says the lefties, EVERYONE should have a Corvette if they want one. They make it a RIGHT for every American if they so desire, to have a Corvette, and because the price is soooooooo high, they demand that the evil GM lower the price to 40,000 bucks. All lefties cheer wildly in the streets!

So what is the problem says all these genius lefties!

PROBLEM---------> GM can't build the Corvette with all its content for 40,000, and make a profit. In fact, they LOSE money on every Corvette they sell at that price. Besides that, without the profit, they can no longer RESEARCH (nor would they want to) new improvements for the vehicles; and in fact, have to make the vehicle with LESS content at that price, to even come close to breaking even.

So what does the NEW GOVERNMENT MANDATED Corvette look like? Well, they all have stick shifts, 4 cylinder engines, no air, no radio, cheap tires, bad paint, awful interiors, shoddily built, and besides that........it takes 24 months to get them because GM really doesn't want to sell it to you at that price to start with. (think RATIONING)

But the lefties? The lefties! They sit their and tell you how they are brilliant because of their intervention, they just got you a Corvette for cheap, and everybody has one!

Of all the stupid arguments that leftists make, the "Right to Healthcare" is the stupidest.

I have to disagree. If we are capable of providing healthcare to all, and don't provide it, then our "right to life" is hollow.

What do you mean if we are capable? Who says we are? We are a nation of 20 trillion dollars in debt. Medicaid is responsible for putting states in the red and draining their resources.

If we are going to have any kind of government healthcare, it has to be written so government can't control our lives. It has to be paid for across the board--not foot the bill to political enemies like we do with income taxes.

You want universal healthcare, fine with me. Have our representatives fund it through a consumption tax. The more you buy, the more you pay into the healthcare system, and then I'm fine with it.

We're capable. It would be easily done with re-prioritizing.

However YOU would like it done, it should be done. How can we as a country say we respect and revere life and tell certain people they aren't worthy of healthcare?

Shit happens, nobody should be forced to be paying for other peoples shit. You're just making up fucked up excuses

 

[NYcarbineer]

Another excuse. The U.S. is the richest country in the world and all the countries in the world with the top life expectancy and quality of life have universal healthcare.

The country is not rich--we have people that are rich. Our country is 20 trillion in debt, and I would hardly call that rich.

So when you say we are the richest country in the world, what you really mean is that we have the richest people in the world--and that is true. However, just because we have the richest people in the world does not mean they should be footing the bill for those that are not rich.

Then you reject public education?

Which, if you think about it, is universal education, using the healthcare terminology.

I don't reject public education, I do reject how it's paid for......at least in our state.

Our schools are funded by property taxes--not if or how many children you have in the school system. In fact I filed a complaint about my property taxes and I have a hearing date setup in a few weeks. So what happened after I got the date? The Board of Education sent me a notice they are sending their sleezy lawyers to the hearing to fight me on it.

I have never had children in my life. None of my tenants ever had children in the public school system. Yet we collectively are paying three times the amount of money to the schools than the lady down the street with four kids in the system. That's unfair.

Schools should be funded mostly by the parents. There is your universal school system. Taxing me for something I'll never use is plain robbery. I decided early in life never to have children mostly because of the expense. If you have children, then you should pay for their education--not me.

So you believe the poor should go without an education - if the parents can't afford it - AND without healthcare, if the parents can't afford it.

See, AGAIN, what I mean? It's all about widening the gap between rich and poor with these RWnuts.

NOWHERE in their agenda do you see anything that contradicts that statement.

Nobody should be forced to pay for other peoples shit… this is not a village, fuck the village

Fine. Then exempt me from all of my taxes that go to the military. That is ALL other people's shit.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The country is not rich--we have people that are rich. Our country is 20 trillion in debt, and I would hardly call that rich.

So when you say we are the richest country in the world, what you really mean is that we have the richest people in the world--and that is true. However, just because we have the richest people in the world does not mean they should be footing the bill for those that are not rich.

Then you reject public education?

Which, if you think about it, is universal education, using the healthcare terminology.

I don't reject public education, I do reject how it's paid for......at least in our state.

Our schools are funded by property taxes--not if or how many children you have in the school system. In fact I filed a complaint about my property taxes and I have a hearing date setup in a few weeks. So what happened after I got the date? The Board of Education sent me a notice they are sending their sleezy lawyers to the hearing to fight me on it.

I have never had children in my life. None of my tenants ever had children in the public school system. Yet we collectively are paying three times the amount of money to the schools than the lady down the street with four kids in the system. That's unfair.

Schools should be funded mostly by the parents. There is your universal school system. Taxing me for something I'll never use is plain robbery. I decided early in life never to have children mostly because of the expense. If you have children, then you should pay for their education--not me.

So you believe the poor should go without an education - if the parents can't afford it - AND without healthcare, if the parents can't afford it.

See, AGAIN, what I mean? It's all about widening the gap between rich and poor with these RWnuts.

NOWHERE in their agenda do you see anything that contradicts that statement.

Nobody should be forced to pay for other peoples shit… this is not a village, fuck the village

Fine. Then exempt me from all of my taxes that go to the military. That is ALL other people's shit.

Nope. It is a Constitutionally mandated responsibility of the federal government, which can levy taxes against you in support of it.

 

[ricechickie]

See Pred, that just shows how clueless leftists really are, lol.

I heard a great example of why the healthcare system needs competition, not government interference--------->

How many Americans would like a Corvette? What do they cost? Lets say; for the sake of argument, they average 70,000 bucks!

That is NOT fair says the lefties, EVERYONE should have a Corvette if they want one. They make it a RIGHT for every American if they so desire, to have a Corvette, and because the price is soooooooo high, they demand that the evil GM lower the price to 40,000 bucks. All lefties cheer wildly in the streets!

So what is the problem says all these genius lefties!

PROBLEM---------> GM can't build the Corvette with all its content for 40,000, and make a profit. In fact, they LOSE money on every Corvette they sell at that price. Besides that, without the profit, they can no longer RESEARCH (nor would they want to) new improvements for the vehicles; and in fact, have to make the vehicle with LESS content at that price, to even come close to breaking even.

So what does the NEW GOVERNMENT MANDATED Corvette look like? Well, they all have stick shifts, 4 cylinder engines, no air, no radio, cheap tires, bad paint, awful interiors, shoddily built, and besides that........it takes 24 months to get them because GM really doesn't want to sell it to you at that price to start with. (think RATIONING)

But the lefties? The lefties! They sit their and tell you how they are brilliant because of their intervention, they just got you a Corvette for cheap, and everybody has one!

Of all the stupid arguments that leftists make, the "Right to Healthcare" is the stupidest.

I have to disagree. If we are capable of providing healthcare to all, and don't provide it, then our "right to life" is hollow.

What do you mean if we are capable? Who says we are? We are a nation of 20 trillion dollars in debt. Medicaid is responsible for putting states in the red and draining their resources.

If we are going to have any kind of government healthcare, it has to be written so government can't control our lives. It has to be paid for across the board--not foot the bill to political enemies like we do with income taxes.

You want universal healthcare, fine with me. Have our representatives fund it through a consumption tax. The more you buy, the more you pay into the healthcare system, and then I'm fine with it.

We're capable. It would be easily done with re-prioritizing.

However YOU would like it done, it should be done. How can we as a country say we respect and revere life and tell certain people they aren't worthy of healthcare?

Shit happens, nobody should be forced to be paying for other peoples shit. You're just making up fucked up excuses

Despite that well-reasoned argument, I consider it an investment in our society, much like public education.

 

[Lewdog]

The country is not rich--we have people that are rich. Our country is 20 trillion in debt, and I would hardly call that rich.

So when you say we are the richest country in the world, what you really mean is that we have the richest people in the world--and that is true. However, just because we have the richest people in the world does not mean they should be footing the bill for those that are not rich.

Then you reject public education?

Which, if you think about it, is universal education, using the healthcare terminology.

I don't reject public education, I do reject how it's paid for......at least in our state.

Our schools are funded by property taxes--not if or how many children you have in the school system. In fact I filed a complaint about my property taxes and I have a hearing date setup in a few weeks. So what happened after I got the date? The Board of Education sent me a notice they are sending their sleezy lawyers to the hearing to fight me on it.

I have never had children in my life. None of my tenants ever had children in the public school system. Yet we collectively are paying three times the amount of money to the schools than the lady down the street with four kids in the system. That's unfair.

Schools should be funded mostly by the parents. There is your universal school system. Taxing me for something I'll never use is plain robbery. I decided early in life never to have children mostly because of the expense. If you have children, then you should pay for their education--not me.

So you believe the poor should go without an education - if the parents can't afford it - AND without healthcare, if the parents can't afford it.

See, AGAIN, what I mean? It's all about widening the gap between rich and poor with these RWnuts.

NOWHERE in their agenda do you see anything that contradicts that statement.

Nobody should be forced to pay for other peoples shit… this is not a village, fuck the village

Fine. Then exempt me from all of my taxes that go to the military. That is ALL other people's shit.

Yep exempt me from paying taxes to any program I don't take part in. And then take that money and put all into programs I support. That sounds like a great plan!

 

[Rustic]

Do we not recognize the "right to life"?

Are we not capable of providing basic healthcare to all citizens?

What facts am I leaving out?

Conservatives believe that if you treat the poor badly enough, they will be 'inspired' to stop being poor. lol

I noticed that. Because it's that simple.....

They believe that denying poor children healthcare will keep their own taxes low,

and give them more money to buy their own children better toys.

Another lie you tell yourself.

Really? You don't wish your taxes were lower? And that you didn't have to pay taxes to help low income people?

The federal government is the most inefficient fucked up way to redistribute resources... because they have no moral/ethical credibility.… LOL

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Of all the stupid arguments that leftists make, the "Right to Healthcare" is the stupidest.

I have to disagree. If we are capable of providing healthcare to all, and don't provide it, then our "right to life" is hollow.

What do you mean if we are capable? Who says we are? We are a nation of 20 trillion dollars in debt. Medicaid is responsible for putting states in the red and draining their resources.

If we are going to have any kind of government healthcare, it has to be written so government can't control our lives. It has to be paid for across the board--not foot the bill to political enemies like we do with income taxes.

You want universal healthcare, fine with me. Have our representatives fund it through a consumption tax. The more you buy, the more you pay into the healthcare system, and then I'm fine with it.

We're capable. It would be easily done with re-prioritizing.

However YOU would like it done, it should be done. How can we as a country say we respect and revere life and tell certain people they aren't worthy of healthcare?

Shit happens, nobody should be forced to be paying for other peoples shit. You're just making up fucked up excuses

Despite that well-reasoned argument, I consider it an investment in our society, much like public education.

Investments are not often made at gunpoint.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Then you reject public education?

Which, if you think about it, is universal education, using the healthcare terminology.

I don't reject public education, I do reject how it's paid for......at least in our state.

Our schools are funded by property taxes--not if or how many children you have in the school system. In fact I filed a complaint about my property taxes and I have a hearing date setup in a few weeks. So what happened after I got the date? The Board of Education sent me a notice they are sending their sleezy lawyers to the hearing to fight me on it.

I have never had children in my life. None of my tenants ever had children in the public school system. Yet we collectively are paying three times the amount of money to the schools than the lady down the street with four kids in the system. That's unfair.

Schools should be funded mostly by the parents. There is your universal school system. Taxing me for something I'll never use is plain robbery. I decided early in life never to have children mostly because of the expense. If you have children, then you should pay for their education--not me.

So you believe the poor should go without an education - if the parents can't afford it - AND without healthcare, if the parents can't afford it.

See, AGAIN, what I mean? It's all about widening the gap between rich and poor with these RWnuts.

NOWHERE in their agenda do you see anything that contradicts that statement.

Nobody should be forced to pay for other peoples shit… this is not a village, fuck the village

Fine. Then exempt me from all of my taxes that go to the military. That is ALL other people's shit.

Yep exempt me from paying taxes to any program I don't take part in. And then take that money and put all into programs I support. That sounds like a great plan!

Unconstitutional.

 

[Marion Morrison]

IDGAF. I don't need healthcare insurance.

If they're fucking over the taxpayers, they should pay the price for that.

Fuck insurance, it's a scam.

 

[Anathema]

So, if you're poor, you shouldn't get healthcare.

Welcome to the "American Fuck you".

That's the Anerican Way. When my great-grandparents came here in 1900, they didn't get anything. My great-grandfather rebuilt a doctor's barn to pay for his services when my great-grandmother got pregnant in 1904. The Government didnt give them a damn thing.

 

[Lewdog]

I don't reject public education, I do reject how it's paid for......at least in our state.

Our schools are funded by property taxes--not if or how many children you have in the school system. In fact I filed a complaint about my property taxes and I have a hearing date setup in a few weeks. So what happened after I got the date? The Board of Education sent me a notice they are sending their sleezy lawyers to the hearing to fight me on it.

I have never had children in my life. None of my tenants ever had children in the public school system. Yet we collectively are paying three times the amount of money to the schools than the lady down the street with four kids in the system. That's unfair.

Schools should be funded mostly by the parents. There is your universal school system. Taxing me for something I'll never use is plain robbery. I decided early in life never to have children mostly because of the expense. If you have children, then you should pay for their education--not me.

So you believe the poor should go without an education - if the parents can't afford it - AND without healthcare, if the parents can't afford it.

See, AGAIN, what I mean? It's all about widening the gap between rich and poor with these RWnuts.

NOWHERE in their agenda do you see anything that contradicts that statement.

Nobody should be forced to pay for other peoples shit… this is not a village, fuck the village

Fine. Then exempt me from all of my taxes that go to the military. That is ALL other people's shit.

Yep exempt me from paying taxes to any program I don't take part in. And then take that money and put all into programs I support. That sounds like a great plan!

Unconstitutional.

You don't want to pay for poor people programs, well I have programs I don't want to be forced to pay for. It's a fair deal. See just how fast the homeless and poor problem gets fixed when all the Rich people of America that hate wars start putting all their money into the poor people programs and not the military.

 

[Rustic]

Of all the stupid arguments that leftists make, the "Right to Healthcare" is the stupidest.

I have to disagree. If we are capable of providing healthcare to all, and don't provide it, then our "right to life" is hollow.

What do you mean if we are capable? Who says we are? We are a nation of 20 trillion dollars in debt. Medicaid is responsible for putting states in the red and draining their resources.

If we are going to have any kind of government healthcare, it has to be written so government can't control our lives. It has to be paid for across the board--not foot the bill to political enemies like we do with income taxes.

You want universal healthcare, fine with me. Have our representatives fund it through a consumption tax. The more you buy, the more you pay into the healthcare system, and then I'm fine with it.

We're capable. It would be easily done with re-prioritizing.

However YOU would like it done, it should be done. How can we as a country say we respect and revere life and tell certain people they aren't worthy of healthcare?

Shit happens, nobody should be forced to be paying for other peoples shit. You're just making up fucked up excuses

Despite that well-reasoned argument, I consider it an investment in our society, much like public education.

The Federal government basically disregards the 10th amendment, if the 10th amendment was strengthen people could just move to state that suits them.
In that case...
They can move to California or the like if they want other people to pay for their shit, or if they wanted to be left alone like it's supposed to be they could move the flyover states... dozens of them.
Millions of people want nothing to do with the collective