If your daughter was at that San Bernadino Christmas party, would you want her to have a gun?

[charwin95]

[QUOTE="charwin95, post: 12955106, member:
How about we stop NRA's helping terrorists buy guns?

nope...I am saying she hears shooting...she u holsters her weapon and waits in the bathroom until the police come and clear the building...try to engage your brain before you post....

and guns are on of the most regulated products in the country...and with 320 million guns in private hands we only had 505 accidental gun deaths....in 2013

accidental death in cars 2013....34,000...

Accidental car death...... are accidental..... ....Gun deaths most or all are intentional. That's the difference.

No..actual gun accidents are 505 for 2013….accidental car deaths are 34,000

Criminal use of guns to commit murder in 2014…..8,124….that means people who by law cannot own or carry guns….steal or illegally acquire guns…breaking several laws to do it…and then break the law against murder…..

Not normal people who simply own guns….

Intentional law breaking is the difference…….and you want to focus on the people who do not break the law.

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.[/QUOTE]

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.[/QUOTE]

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

 

[jasonnfree]

Why stop at guns? The opposition might come to the party with much more powerful weapons. Next time she goes to a party in san berdoo she'll be having at least an uzi and a couple grenades.

 

[upholdbelieves]

then make sure that bad guy has no gun first before your no gun dream, can u ?

Would I want her to have a gun? No, I'd want no one to have a gun. Well, that was easy.

 

[aris2chat]

wouldn't any parent want their child to have a chance and not be killed like a sitting duck?

First you look to run, but if there is nowhere to run, you fight.

 

[2aguy]

[QUOTE="charwin95, post: 12955106, member:
How about we stop NRA's helping terrorists buy guns?

nope...I am saying she hears shooting...she u holsters her weapon and waits in the bathroom until the police come and clear the building...try to engage your brain before you post....

and guns are on of the most regulated products in the country...and with 320 million guns in private hands we only had 505 accidental gun deaths....in 2013

accidental death in cars 2013....34,000...

Accidental car death...... are accidental..... ....Gun deaths most or all are intentional. That's the difference.

No..actual gun accidents are 505 for 2013….accidental car deaths are 34,000

Criminal use of guns to commit murder in 2014…..8,124….that means people who by law cannot own or carry guns….steal or illegally acquire guns…breaking several laws to do it…and then break the law against murder…..

Not normal people who simply own guns….

Intentional law breaking is the difference…….and you want to focus on the people who do not break the law.

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.[/QUOTE]

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.[/QUOTE]


No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

 

[2aguy]

Here you go....when Virginia allowed normal people to carry their guns into bars...and restaurants that served alcohol....there violent crime rate in those places went down, not up...

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants


Virginia's bars and restaurants did not turn into shooting galleries as some had feared during the first year of a new state law that allows patrons with permits to carry concealed guns into alcohol-serving businesses, a Richmond Times-Dispatch analysis found.

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

And overall, the crimes that occurred during the law's first year were relatively minor, and few of the incidents appeared to involve gun owners with concealed-carry permits, the analysis found.

A total of 145 reported crimes with guns occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11, or eight fewer than the 153 incidents in fiscal 2009-10. State police track all murders, non-negligent manslaughters, aggravated assaults, forcible sex crimes and robberies in more than two dozen categories, including "bars/nightclubs" and "restaurants."

"The numbers basically just confirm what we've said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law," said Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, which strongly lobbied for the law's change that made Virginia one of 43 states to allow concealed guns in restaurants that serve alcohol. "It's sort of a big yawn. So from my point of view, none of this is surprising."

"Keep in mind," Van Cleave added, "what the other side was saying — that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on."

State Sen. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who was a strong opponent of the law, said it's not clear what conclusions can be drawn from just a year's worth of data.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

So, uh, are you saying a woman survivor said she had time to leave where she was visiting with friends at the xmas party, unlock her locker, get her purse out of her locker, get her gun out of her purse, put her purse back, lock the locker, return to the party and take down the shooters?

Amazing.

How about we stop NRA's helping terrorists buy guns?

conceal /carry means she has it on under her jacket - it's not in a purse.

 

[charwin95]

Accidental car death...... are accidental..... ....Gun deaths most or all are intentional. That's the difference.

No..actual gun accidents are 505 for 2013….accidental car deaths are 34,000

Criminal use of guns to commit murder in 2014…..8,124….that means people who by law cannot own or carry guns….steal or illegally acquire guns…breaking several laws to do it…and then break the law against murder…..

Not normal people who simply own guns….

Intentional law breaking is the difference…….and you want to focus on the people who do not break the law.

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.[/QUOTE]


No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....[/QUOTE]

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Remember, boys, don't "protect" yourself until you see the whites of their eyes...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on fucking panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on fucking panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on fucking panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

The only thing most Americans know about guns is what they see in the movies. Bruce Willis at that party would have been dead like the rest of them, who never saw it coming if they were lucky that is.

 

[Ava]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

The roving security guard for the complex didn't even have a gun.

Unarmed security guard was on duty during San Bernardino mass shooting

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

The roving security guard for the complex didn't even have a gun.

Unarmed security guard was on duty during San Bernardino mass shooting

To have a shot, pun intended, he would have had to have been prepared like this:

And in exactly the right place at exactly the right time. And there were probably well north of a 1,000 people there then.

 

[charwin95]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on fucking panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

The only thing most Americans know about guns is what they see in the movies. Bruce Willis at that party would have been dead like the rest of them, who never saw it coming if they were lucky that is.

But behind the key board tough gun owners it's easy to play the role of John McClane.

 

[2aguy]

No..actual gun accidents are 505 for 2013….accidental car deaths are 34,000

Criminal use of guns to commit murder in 2014…..8,124….that means people who by law cannot own or carry guns….steal or illegally acquire guns…breaking several laws to do it…and then break the law against murder…..

Not normal people who simply own guns….

Intentional law breaking is the difference…….and you want to focus on the people who do not break the law.

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....[/QUOTE]

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.[/QUOTE]


1. I never said ignore the criminals committing crimes and murders with guns ...I keep telliing you the way to reduce them is to actually target the criminals....and the way you do that is with long prison sentences for criminals caught in possession of guns......you guys only care about normal people who own guns...and that doesn't do anyting to reduce gun violence....

2. No......never said that either....but as a right, any American who is not a felon should be able to won and crry a gun for self defense....and who cares what the NRA does....they are not criminals.

3. We do not have a gun epidemic in the country....we have over 320 million guns in private hands...and only 8,124 gun murders in the entire country...of over 320 million people.........

The majority of those gun murders take place in tiny....tiny multi block areas of our democrat controlled inner cities...as Milwaukee shows......they don't have a gun problem in Wisconsin...just democrat controlled Milwaukee...and in Milwaukkee the shootings take place in a tiny area....

And another thing....13 million Americans now carry guns for selfdefense and our gun murder rate is going down, not up.

4. The Wild West wasn't wild......and normal people carrying guns are not the ones shooting people...again...13 million people carrying guns and our gun murder rate is going down. And on of the most dangerous places is a gun free zone........as we keep seeing. And of 5 church shootings....fewer lives were lost when normal gun owners were carrying guns......more died in the churches that were gun free zones....


Funny....I bet those Leos you know...will carry a gun when they want to ...right......they just don't want other people carrying a gun.....but for them it is okay....even though sworn police officers commit more crimes than citizens who carry concealed gun permits.....

 

[2aguy]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on fucking panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

The only thing most Americans know about guns is what they see in the movies. Bruce Willis at that party would have been dead like the rest of them, who never saw it coming if they were lucky that is.

the only thing most gun grabbers know about gun owners is what they dream up from their dislike of people in general...and then add to that with their basic fear of guns...

because not one thing they believe about guns and gun owners is accurate.....not from what the anti gunners here post....

 

[2aguy]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on fucking panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

Look....in the cases,where a mass shooter stupidly attacks a place where there is a concealed carry permit holder, the gun owner stopped the attack and saved lives...you guys all think you know what other people would be capable of and you just don't.....

in most situations people will do what you say...get out......but in those actual cases where a shooter has run into a concealed carrier...they have either shot the killer or capture them for police.....

you should do some research into the actual events....your idea is not based on reality

 

[2aguy]

No..actual gun accidents are 505 for 2013….accidental car deaths are 34,000

Criminal use of guns to commit murder in 2014…..8,124….that means people who by law cannot own or carry guns….steal or illegally acquire guns…breaking several laws to do it…and then break the law against murder…..

Not normal people who simply own guns….

Intentional law breaking is the difference…….and you want to focus on the people who do not break the law.

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....[/QUOTE]

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.[/QUOTE]


and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....