I'm right about World Trade Centers and have an idea how they fell

[Carla_Danger]

I nominate Skylar to be the new forum psychiatrist.

 

[Carla_Danger]

More accurately, we're unwilling to accept your version of events because they don't match the evidence, are overwhelmingly contradicted by the evidence and are ludicrously complicated and fantastically elaborate. Which fails a test of logic known as Occam's Razor.

Pro-official story – American Airlines Flight 77, hijacked by Islamic terrorists, hits the Pentagon, killing 125 employees along with 64 people on the plane.


Anti-official story – A complicated conspiracy involving dozens if not hundreds of government people was employed to create the illusion that a passenger plane hit the Pentagon when in fact it did not. Explosions were set off inside the building and a passenger plane flew past the Pentagon as the outer wall exploded.


Using Occam’s Razor, the first one must be true, right? It’s clearly simpler. But let’s take a closer look at the inevitability of the official story when a few more details are included:


A group of Islamic terrorists slipped through airport security with knives and box cutters, which they then used to take control of Flight 77, even though the Flight Data Recorder indicated that the cockpit door never opened during the flight. With just these crude weapons, the hijackers herded everyone, including the crew, into the back of the plane. The pilots were somehow prevented from dialing a four-digit code indicating to air traffic controllers that a hijack was in progress.


One of the hijackers, a failed flight student who had been refused rental of a Cessna a month earlier because of his poor piloting skills, took over. He flew several hundred miles west without being detected by radar, pulled a 180-degree turn and headed back to Washington. No fighters were able to intercept this or any of the other three hijacked planes that day.


Then, instead of simply flying straight into the Pentagon and doing maximum damage, he initiated an incredibly difficult 330-degree spiral to hit the building on the one side that would result in very few casualties. The plane hit the building, making a small hole, and then completely disappeared into the building. There was minimal damage to the building’s facade, including where the plane’s engines and tail section would have hit. The plane hit the first floor of the building but caused no damage to the lawn.


The plane travelled at 530 mph even though professional pilots will tell you that it is physically impossible to fly at that speed just a few feet above the ground. No airplane part that could positively be tied to Flight 77 was found. Photos of the damaged section of the building show that columns that would have to have been destroyed for the plane to completely enter the building are still intact.


Suddenly the official story isn’t so simple after all. True, the “inside job” theory is extremely complex and would involve many things going according to plan, but it doesn’t break the laws of physics several times the way the official account does.


The other thing to keep in mind through all of this is that when one story (the official one) is unquestioningly accepted by the media, all the onus is on those who disagree with the government account to prove it to be false. All contrary versions have to be measured against the official story, which itself doesn’t have to be proved; it is taken for granted.
How Occam’s Razor can be twisted to serve “the official story”

The conspiracy version of events is wildly more complex, involving hundreds if not thousands of people in a perfect conspiracy that has never been broken, ever. The Pentagon had to be involved, the FBI would have to be in on it, Congrss would have to be in on it, explosives had to be planted, all the people on the plane who were lost, their families, the FAA, the local fire departments, the folks who died in the pentagon and their families, the radar records would have to be faked, the black boxes, all the evidence would have to be planted, reports faked...both inside the US government and outside it. As the ASCE did its own study of the impact and found it was perfectly consistent with a plane impact.

And then there all the people who saw the plane. This didn't happen in some remote location, but in broad daylight with Flight 77 flying over I-395 in the middle of a traffic jam. ALL of those witnesses would have to be faked as well.

All of them, tens of thousands of people, would have to be in the conspiracy, all with perfect secrecy for nearly 15 years and counting. And of course, without evidence of any of your conspiracy actually happening.

That's ludicrously complicated. Contradicted by overwhelming evidence. And without any credible factual basis. While a plane crashed into the building is far, far simpler and matches the evidence.

That's why folks don't buy the truther conspiracy. Its just a stupidly awful explanation of events.

I love how you decide what the conspiracy is, and how it worked for those who don't believe the official story. What a complete and total hoot.

Laughing.....wait, you *haven't* told us 'what the conspiracy is'?

Can I take it from that little blunder that your ilk don't handle criticism well? Because you ignored virtually every point made, pretending none of it existed. Yet it did. For your conspiracy to work, ALL of these people had to be in on it:

The FBI.
The first reponders. Both cops and fire fighters.
The US Military.
The Pentagon.
All the witnesses on I-395
The FAA.
The American Society of Civil Engineers.
All of the air traffic controllers at both Reagan and Dulles airports.
The NIST
American Airlines.
The people who died in the plane crash.
The families of those who died in the plane crash.
The people who died in the Pentagon.
The families of those who died in the Pentagon.
All the folks who planted the bombs in the Pentagon.

Thousands upon thousands of people just joining together spontaneously in the most stupidly complicated, wildly elaborate conspiracy in the history of mankind. Which they've maintained with perfect secrecy for almost 15 years.

OR....

........the plane just crashed into the Pentagon.

Occam's Razor and the evidence definitely picks a side. And its not yours. Your explanation is a piss poor, half assed account that makes no sense, is insanely complicated, is contradicted by overwhelming evidence, and supported by virtually nothing.

That. That right there, is why folks don't believe the silly Truther conspiracy. Its just stupidly awful at explaining what happened.

You ignored my last post, so I'll ignore this one.

I had no idea you were a twoofer.

 

[Dale Smith]

Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick.
North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) is responsible for monitoring our skies.The Continental NORAD Region (CONR) is the component of NORAD that provides airspace surveillance and control and directs air sovereignty activities for the Contiguous United States (CONUS).

And the activities that you insist NORAD was 'outsmarted' in was intercepting the hijacked planes. Yet EVERY Air Defense Intercept Zone on 911....was *outside* the United States. NORAD didn't monitor the location of planes in domestic airspace. NORAD's radar network is focused outward, toward incoming foreign warplanes. The only way NORAD knew that there was a hijacking is when the the FAA picked up a phone and told them. The FAA didn't notify NORAD of hijackings until AFTER the first tower had already been hit. And only a minute before the second tower was hit.

Making your 'outwitted NORAD' account nonsense. NORAD doesn't track domestic flights within the US. Nor would they have anyway of telling one plane from another if their transponders were turned off.

Which was the case in every plane used in the 911 attacks.

So why would NORAD have intercepted hijackings they didn't know about, planes they weren't tracking in airspace outside their Air Defense Intercept Zones? Your entire basis of assumption is nonsense.

No bodies of those on the plane were recovered....claimed that it only took them a couple of months to identify the alleged remains they recovered using DNA testing which is ludicrous to say the least. 184 out of 187 identified at a military base no less ...allegedly.

Says you. But when pressed to show us any source other than yourself that says this....you've got jack shit. Your entire argument is circular. Where you insist that there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon....because you insist there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon.

Why would a rational person ignore the ACSE report which shows the location of the bodies, ignore the autospies, ignore the identification of the bodies? Especially when you've got *jack shit* to back up any portion of your account. You have no rational reason to ignore the evidence. You simply do.

And this is why the Truthers aren't taken seriously. Their *entire* argument is to ignore the evidence. And even they can't give you a rational reason why.

As far as Dr. Steve Piecneznik is concerned, he worked in intelligence and counter-intelligence with many, many reliable contacts. When I have heard him interviewed, whichever host is doing the interviewing always attaches his name to the CIA. His resume is more impressive than just being CIA and he has more credibility and knows more than you or I.

That's not what you said before. This was:

Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

And NO WHERE in your entire bio does it even mention the CIA. Let alone Dr. Steve working in the CIA for 30 years. You fucking lied.

Nor can Dr. Steve even *name* the 'top general' he claims 'told him how 911 was pulled off'. Let alone back any of it with evidence. There is no part of your account above that checks out. As for 'knowing more than the rest of us', Steve Pieczenik hadn't worked for the State department since the late 1980s. He has no direct access to any of the sources he claims to cite, nor can he show us any evidence backing any portion of his account.

Once again, when we fact check your claims, they don't check out.

Shocker.

Keep reading what I post and perhaps you will eventually stop being a sheeple...one can only hope.

Dale....even you don't buy your bullshit. As when I specifically question you about the evidence, you try and change the topic. You lie about your sources. And your sources can't back a damn thing they say.

You're simply not prepared to deal with the evidence. You prefer your stupidly elaborate conspiracy fantasy to reality. And nothing can convince you. How do we know? You told us. You're mind is closed and you've committed to ignoring anything that contradicts your conspiracy fantasy.

I can show you the evidence, Dale. But I can't make you think.

Dude, I was just like you for over a 11 years......I demonized and marginalized anyone that dared to question our beloved "gubermint" concerning 9/11/01. I would Google and search for any piece of propaganda that I could use in a lame attempt to refute evidence and questions that I never bothered to look at because I didn't want my neat little neocon world turned upside down....so spare me the bullshit, m'kay? I took the blinders off and I went through some really bad times personally where I went from being outgoing and personable to being a total recluse and not wanting to interact with anyone. I became obsessed with finding the truth not only about 9/11 but other events that have shaped this corporation's hold over us and I have a very good grasp on how dire our situation is...... and it doesn't bode well for any of us as it currently stands. I no longer believe in political affiliations because it only serves to divide us and trust me, the ones that really pull the strings have created a number of ways to keep us divided and bickering among each other. You can throw out all the little diversions to your heart's content in hopes that I will stop posting about 9/11/01 but it's not gonna happen....read, learn, evolve. Things are not what you think they are and there is some really bad shit on the horizon unless there is a mass awakening.

"Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination."

I wish that it were so and that I was just having a bad dream, but that is not the case. I have no "willful ignorance of the events" thing going on....I did at one time and was a co-sponsor of pushing the official story of this corporate "gubermint" because America is not a country, it is a corporation due to the Act of 1871. You are an indentured debt slave, a surety on the debt due to the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of USA.INC in March of 1933...we have all been duped. We toil three to four months a year for free to pay interest on a fiat currency that is created from credit on a computer screen...try coming to that realization that you have worked 1/3 of your life for free.....

"Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control"

I was very sure that we were being attacked by what I called "muslim sandniggers" and I used every prior attack of the muslims against the U.S on foreign shores to demonize them but I learned that they were false flag events as well. The first WTC bombing in 1993 was a false flag event and they tried to use an Egyptian muslim as a patsy but he outsmarted them and wore a wire. The OKC bombing in 1995 was a total orchestrated event by our "gubermint" trying to pin the blame on the militia movement. McVeigh had been "chipped' and was part of the special ops program and he was set up as the fall guy. They had charges set up on the 3rd and 6th floor columns. Seismic charts from Norman, Oklahoma show two distinct blasts 4.2 seconds apart. An ANFO bomb, especially using the type of ammonium nitrate could have not gutted the Murrah building...this was a false flag event to demonize gun owners and it led to the passage of a scaled down version of the Patriot Act that had been languishing in congress until OKC and it passed.

"Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists."

I don't fear shit but my eyes are wide open and I know that we have a corporate entity trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body that simply passes thousands of acts, statutes and codes...because corporations cannot pass laws.. That is w3hat we have the "Patriot Act", Healthcare Act, etc, etc.....they are not laws....get it now?

"Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting"

I beg to differ....when things are compartmentalized, people can be involved without even realizing that they were...and even if they figured out that they had played a part in a false flag event, who would believe them or print the story since 90 percent of our media is owned by 6 mega corporations that all have ties to the global elites that run our fiat currency system? Here is a tidbit of something I researched. Fox News gave some journalists "carte blanche " to do some hard hitting journalism and make a weekly segment out of it. Their first story was how Monsanto was behind the hormones being injected into cows in order for them to produce more milk, only problem was that it contained harmful chemical agents that would affect children. The story was killed because Fox said that it would affect their bottom line and would have to fend off the high priced lawyers that Monsanto had hired to keep the story under wraps. We do not have a free press anymore and anyone that speaks out will never be given a platform from which to speak and if they are able to get their story out there by the alternative media, they can count on being attacked by the bought and paid for corporate media in an attempt to discredit them. I will address the of your poorly written rebuttal later....got to get some rest so I can get some rest so I can get up and toil for the Fed bankers tht confiscate a third of my earnings...here is a healthy and hearty "FUCK YOU, YA CLUELESS ASSWIPE" sign off for now...I will be back later to further kick your "gubermint" loving ass...... (snicker)

We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public.

The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception.

Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination.

Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control.

As at least *someone* would be in control of everything. Even if you have to make them up.

Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists.

Or......maybe someone had a Big Mac.

Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting.

We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public.

The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception.

 

[SAYIT]

Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.

The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.

Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.

The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.

According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)

Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.

It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.

According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.

There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.

The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.

While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.

More Conspiracy Whack-a-mole!

Instead of answer any of my questions about the ADIZ, explain how NORAD could have been 'outwitted' by the hijackers when the area that NORAD monitors is OUTSIDE the United States.....you switch topics again. How did I know that was coming?

I'm going to go through this thread and make a list of all the claims you've made....and then abandoned, Dale. But since your rout is at least remotely relevant to the
David Griffith, professional conspiracy theorist, insists that cell phone calls can't be made from planes. The FBI, AT&T, Airfone, the company that ran the phones on the planes, and the actual phone records demonstrate that calls could be made.

Here's the Freedom of Information request for FBI interviews with AT&T, where the company contacted the FBI to report that they were getting calls from a woman claiming to be hijacked and transfering them to Ted Olson's number at the woman's request.

Teresa Gonzalez, operator for AT&T Services AT&T, telephonically contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation FBI to report an emergency phone call received by AT&T. After being advised of the identity of the interviewing agent and the nature of the interview, she provided the following information:

Mercy Lorenzo, also an operator with AT&T, received a call from a female passenger on flight 77 requesting to be transferred to telephone number 202514-2201. The female passenger advised the plane was being hi-jacked. Hi-jackers were ordering passengers to move to the back of the plane and were armed with guns and knives. Lorenzo indicated the pilot might not yet be aware of the take over of the plane.

Additionally, the number provided was the number of the passenger's husband. He is a Sergeant and resides in Washington, D.C.

http://911myths.com/images/9/95/265A-NY-280350-302-22170-Unredacted.pdf

Here's the interview with her husband's secretary at the Solicitor Generals office:

Lori Lynn Keyton, Secretary, Department of Justice (DOJ), Washington, D.C., telephone number (202) [redacted, date of birth [redacted] was contacted telephonically at her residence through the DOJ Command Center at (202) 514-5000. After being advised of the identity of the interviewing agent and the nature of the interview, Keyton provided the following information:

Keyton was working in Ted Olson's Office this morning. She is regularly called there to cover the telephones. At approximately 9:00am, she received a series of approximately six (6) to eight (8) collect telephone calls. Each of the calls was an automated collect call. There was a recording advising of the collect call and requesting she hold for an operator. A short time later another recording stated that all operators were busy, please hang up and try your call later.

Keyton then received a collect call from a live operator. The operator advised that there was an emergency collect call from Barbara Olsen for Ted Olsen. Keyton advised that she would accept the call. Barbara Olsen was put through and sounded hysterical. Barbara Olsen said, "Can you tell Ted.." Keyton cut her off and said, "I'll put him on the line."
There was a second telephone call a few to five (5) minutes later. This time Barbara Olsen was on the line when she answered. She called direct. It was not a collect call. Barbara Olsen said, "It's Barbara." Keyton said, "he's on the phone with the command center, I'll put you through."

http://911myths.com/images/7/74/Team7-Box13-Flight-Call-Notes-and-302s.pdf

With Ted Olsen also confirming that the person on the line was his wife.

Here's the Airfone records from Flight 77 with 4 outgoing calls. Call you insist could never be made. Calls Airfone affirms were. Here's the first attempt, that didn't connect.

Call #2. This one did connect. Note that per Airfone, the customer dialed the operator. Matching the account of AT&T exactly.

With 3 other calls after that. All contradicting your account. Here's the FBI's records on *all* calls from Flight 77:

http://911myths.com/images/7/78/FBI_compilation_re_Flight_77_calls.pdf

See how I did that? I made a claim and I offered the source.

Oh, and Dale....if you're just going to cut and paste articles that you've never read nor fact checked, at least give us the courtesy of citing your sources. As here's your argument, verbatim. Written by someone else.

Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"

Which you already know. But really hope we never found out.

So what we clearly have in Dale is a lying, dime-a-dozen anti-America slug who not only posts and repeats his lies - in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary - but also the lies of others without due credit to the actual author.

That is called plagiarism and is practiced by the laziest and most dishonest among us ... Dale Smith.

I suspect he is only here because he can post things like "gubermint" with precious little ridicule and that only because there is so much more from him deserving of ridicule.

 

[SAYIT]

I nominate Skylar to be the new forum psychiatrist.

Sky has certainly (and relentlessly) nailed poor Dale to the wall of CTBS he has posted and pathetically tried to defend.

Interestingly even his comrades on this thread have seen the damage their "Movement" has suffered and have abandoned both Dale and the thread.

Skylar has been on a killer whale kinda roll.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

still ANOTHER fart from USMB'S resident troll agent say it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick.
North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) is responsible for monitoring our skies.The Continental NORAD Region (CONR) is the component of NORAD that provides airspace surveillance and control and directs air sovereignty activities for the Contiguous United States (CONUS).

And the activities that you insist NORAD was 'outsmarted' in was intercepting the hijacked planes. Yet EVERY Air Defense Intercept Zone on 911....was *outside* the United States. NORAD didn't monitor the location of planes in domestic airspace. NORAD's radar network is focused outward, toward incoming foreign warplanes. The only way NORAD knew that there was a hijacking is when the the FAA picked up a phone and told them. The FAA didn't notify NORAD of hijackings until AFTER the first tower had already been hit. And only a minute before the second tower was hit.

Making your 'outwitted NORAD' account nonsense. NORAD doesn't track domestic flights within the US. Nor would they have anyway of telling one plane from another if their transponders were turned off.

Which was the case in every plane used in the 911 attacks.

So why would NORAD have intercepted hijackings they didn't know about, planes they weren't tracking in airspace outside their Air Defense Intercept Zones? Your entire basis of assumption is nonsense.

No bodies of those on the plane were recovered....claimed that it only took them a couple of months to identify the alleged remains they recovered using DNA testing which is ludicrous to say the least. 184 out of 187 identified at a military base no less ...allegedly.

Says you. But when pressed to show us any source other than yourself that says this....you've got jack shit. Your entire argument is circular. Where you insist that there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon....because you insist there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon.

Why would a rational person ignore the ACSE report which shows the location of the bodies, ignore the autospies, ignore the identification of the bodies? Especially when you've got *jack shit* to back up any portion of your account. You have no rational reason to ignore the evidence. You simply do.

And this is why the Truthers aren't taken seriously. Their *entire* argument is to ignore the evidence. And even they can't give you a rational reason why.

As far as Dr. Steve Piecneznik is concerned, he worked in intelligence and counter-intelligence with many, many reliable contacts. When I have heard him interviewed, whichever host is doing the interviewing always attaches his name to the CIA. His resume is more impressive than just being CIA and he has more credibility and knows more than you or I.

That's not what you said before. This was:

Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

And NO WHERE in your entire bio does it even mention the CIA. Let alone Dr. Steve working in the CIA for 30 years. You fucking lied.

Nor can Dr. Steve even *name* the 'top general' he claims 'told him how 911 was pulled off'. Let alone back any of it with evidence. There is no part of your account above that checks out. As for 'knowing more than the rest of us', Steve Pieczenik hadn't worked for the State department since the late 1980s. He has no direct access to any of the sources he claims to cite, nor can he show us any evidence backing any portion of his account.

Once again, when we fact check your claims, they don't check out.

Shocker.

Keep reading what I post and perhaps you will eventually stop being a sheeple...one can only hope.

Dale....even you don't buy your bullshit. As when I specifically question you about the evidence, you try and change the topic. You lie about your sources. And your sources can't back a damn thing they say.

You're simply not prepared to deal with the evidence. You prefer your stupidly elaborate conspiracy fantasy to reality. And nothing can convince you. How do we know? You told us. You're mind is closed and you've committed to ignoring anything that contradicts your conspiracy fantasy.

I can show you the evidence, Dale. But I can't make you think.

Dude, I was just like you for over a 11 years......I demonized and marginalized anyone that dared to question our beloved "gubermint" concerning 9/11/01. I would Google and search for any piece of propaganda that I could use in a lame attempt to refute evidence and questions that I never bothered to look at because I didn't want my neat little neocon world turned upside down....so spare me the bullshit, m'kay? I took the blinders off and I went through some really bad times personally where I went from being outgoing and personable to being a total recluse and not wanting to interact with anyone. I became obsessed with finding the truth not only about 9/11 but other events that have shaped this corporation's hold over us and I have a very good grasp on how dire our situation is...... and it doesn't bode well for any of us as it currently stands. I no longer believe in political affiliations because it only serves to divide us and trust me, the ones that really pull the strings have created a number of ways to keep us divided and bickering among each other. You can throw out all the little diversions to your heart's content in hopes that I will stop posting about 9/11/01 but it's not gonna happen....read, learn, evolve. Things are not what you think they are and there is some really bad shit on the horizon unless there is a mass awakening.

ever notice how trolls like carla in denial can only post a funny when they cant counter facts?

 

[MisterBeale]

Pro-official story – American Airlines Flight 77, hijacked by Islamic terrorists, hits the Pentagon, killing 125 employees along with 64 people on the plane.


Anti-official story – A complicated conspiracy involving dozens if not hundreds of government people was employed to create the illusion that a passenger plane hit the Pentagon when in fact it did not. Explosions were set off inside the building and a passenger plane flew past the Pentagon as the outer wall exploded.


Using Occam’s Razor, the first one must be true, right? It’s clearly simpler. But let’s take a closer look at the inevitability of the official story when a few more details are included:


A group of Islamic terrorists slipped through airport security with knives and box cutters, which they then used to take control of Flight 77, even though the Flight Data Recorder indicated that the cockpit door never opened during the flight. With just these crude weapons, the hijackers herded everyone, including the crew, into the back of the plane. The pilots were somehow prevented from dialing a four-digit code indicating to air traffic controllers that a hijack was in progress.


One of the hijackers, a failed flight student who had been refused rental of a Cessna a month earlier because of his poor piloting skills, took over. He flew several hundred miles west without being detected by radar, pulled a 180-degree turn and headed back to Washington. No fighters were able to intercept this or any of the other three hijacked planes that day.


Then, instead of simply flying straight into the Pentagon and doing maximum damage, he initiated an incredibly difficult 330-degree spiral to hit the building on the one side that would result in very few casualties. The plane hit the building, making a small hole, and then completely disappeared into the building. There was minimal damage to the building’s facade, including where the plane’s engines and tail section would have hit. The plane hit the first floor of the building but caused no damage to the lawn.


The plane travelled at 530 mph even though professional pilots will tell you that it is physically impossible to fly at that speed just a few feet above the ground. No airplane part that could positively be tied to Flight 77 was found. Photos of the damaged section of the building show that columns that would have to have been destroyed for the plane to completely enter the building are still intact.


Suddenly the official story isn’t so simple after all. True, the “inside job” theory is extremely complex and would involve many things going according to plan, but it doesn’t break the laws of physics several times the way the official account does.


The other thing to keep in mind through all of this is that when one story (the official one) is unquestioningly accepted by the media, all the onus is on those who disagree with the government account to prove it to be false. All contrary versions have to be measured against the official story, which itself doesn’t have to be proved; it is taken for granted.
How Occam’s Razor can be twisted to serve “the official story”

The conspiracy version of events is wildly more complex, involving hundreds if not thousands of people in a perfect conspiracy that has never been broken, ever. The Pentagon had to be involved, the FBI would have to be in on it, Congrss would have to be in on it, explosives had to be planted, all the people on the plane who were lost, their families, the FAA, the local fire departments, the folks who died in the pentagon and their families, the radar records would have to be faked, the black boxes, all the evidence would have to be planted, reports faked...both inside the US government and outside it. As the ASCE did its own study of the impact and found it was perfectly consistent with a plane impact.

And then there all the people who saw the plane. This didn't happen in some remote location, but in broad daylight with Flight 77 flying over I-395 in the middle of a traffic jam. ALL of those witnesses would have to be faked as well.

All of them, tens of thousands of people, would have to be in the conspiracy, all with perfect secrecy for nearly 15 years and counting. And of course, without evidence of any of your conspiracy actually happening.

That's ludicrously complicated. Contradicted by overwhelming evidence. And without any credible factual basis. While a plane crashed into the building is far, far simpler and matches the evidence.

That's why folks don't buy the truther conspiracy. Its just a stupidly awful explanation of events.

I love how you decide what the conspiracy is, and how it worked for those who don't believe the official story. What a complete and total hoot.

Laughing.....wait, you *haven't* told us 'what the conspiracy is'?

Can I take it from that little blunder that your ilk don't handle criticism well? Because you ignored virtually every point made, pretending none of it existed. Yet it did. For your conspiracy to work, ALL of these people had to be in on it:

The FBI.
The first reponders. Both cops and fire fighters.
The US Military.
The Pentagon.
All the witnesses on I-395
The FAA.
The American Society of Civil Engineers.
All of the air traffic controllers at both Reagan and Dulles airports.
The NIST
American Airlines.
The people who died in the plane crash.
The families of those who died in the plane crash.
The people who died in the Pentagon.
The families of those who died in the Pentagon.
All the folks who planted the bombs in the Pentagon.

Thousands upon thousands of people just joining together spontaneously in the most stupidly complicated, wildly elaborate conspiracy in the history of mankind. Which they've maintained with perfect secrecy for almost 15 years.

OR....

........the plane just crashed into the Pentagon.

Occam's Razor and the evidence definitely picks a side. And its not yours. Your explanation is a piss poor, half assed account that makes no sense, is insanely complicated, is contradicted by overwhelming evidence, and supported by virtually nothing.

That. That right there, is why folks don't believe the silly Truther conspiracy. Its just stupidly awful at explaining what happened.

You ignored my last post, so I'll ignore this one.

I had no idea you were a twoofer.

If really comes down to a simple equation that has never really been sorted out.

Means, motive, and opportunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For me, the "terrorists" never really had much of these except for motive.

The folks that really did it though? They had all three. It's just that simple.

 

[MisterBeale]

What it comes down to Carla, is you have four planes hijacked, it supposedly took up to an half hour for some of the alleged terrorist to get into those cock pits, and not a single one of those eight pilots squaked the code?

On top of that, TV reports tell me all I need to know. . . .





When scientists themselves could not predict something that has never happened in the history of humanity and can still not explain how it happened w/o the use of explosives, yet the media predicts it before it happens, then you know something is rotten in the STATE.

 

[MisterBeale]

That's the smoking gun for any intelligent person.

 

[Carla_Danger]

What it comes down to Carla, is you have four planes hijacked, it supposedly took up to an half hour for some of the alleged terrorist to get into those cock pits, and not a single one of those eight pilots squaked the code?

On top of that, TV reports tell me all I need to know. . . .





When scientists themselves could not predict something that has never happened in the history of humanity and can still not explain how it happened w/o the use of explosives, yet the media predicts it before it happens, then you know something is rotten in the STATE.

Didn't you want to ask me about Naomi Wolf?

 

[Carla_Danger]

Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick.
North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) is responsible for monitoring our skies.The Continental NORAD Region (CONR) is the component of NORAD that provides airspace surveillance and control and directs air sovereignty activities for the Contiguous United States (CONUS).

And the activities that you insist NORAD was 'outsmarted' in was intercepting the hijacked planes. Yet EVERY Air Defense Intercept Zone on 911....was *outside* the United States. NORAD didn't monitor the location of planes in domestic airspace. NORAD's radar network is focused outward, toward incoming foreign warplanes. The only way NORAD knew that there was a hijacking is when the the FAA picked up a phone and told them. The FAA didn't notify NORAD of hijackings until AFTER the first tower had already been hit. And only a minute before the second tower was hit.

Making your 'outwitted NORAD' account nonsense. NORAD doesn't track domestic flights within the US. Nor would they have anyway of telling one plane from another if their transponders were turned off.

Which was the case in every plane used in the 911 attacks.

So why would NORAD have intercepted hijackings they didn't know about, planes they weren't tracking in airspace outside their Air Defense Intercept Zones? Your entire basis of assumption is nonsense.

No bodies of those on the plane were recovered....claimed that it only took them a couple of months to identify the alleged remains they recovered using DNA testing which is ludicrous to say the least. 184 out of 187 identified at a military base no less ...allegedly.

Says you. But when pressed to show us any source other than yourself that says this....you've got jack shit. Your entire argument is circular. Where you insist that there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon....because you insist there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon.

Why would a rational person ignore the ACSE report which shows the location of the bodies, ignore the autospies, ignore the identification of the bodies? Especially when you've got *jack shit* to back up any portion of your account. You have no rational reason to ignore the evidence. You simply do.

And this is why the Truthers aren't taken seriously. Their *entire* argument is to ignore the evidence. And even they can't give you a rational reason why.

As far as Dr. Steve Piecneznik is concerned, he worked in intelligence and counter-intelligence with many, many reliable contacts. When I have heard him interviewed, whichever host is doing the interviewing always attaches his name to the CIA. His resume is more impressive than just being CIA and he has more credibility and knows more than you or I.

That's not what you said before. This was:

Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

And NO WHERE in your entire bio does it even mention the CIA. Let alone Dr. Steve working in the CIA for 30 years. You fucking lied.

Nor can Dr. Steve even *name* the 'top general' he claims 'told him how 911 was pulled off'. Let alone back any of it with evidence. There is no part of your account above that checks out. As for 'knowing more than the rest of us', Steve Pieczenik hadn't worked for the State department since the late 1980s. He has no direct access to any of the sources he claims to cite, nor can he show us any evidence backing any portion of his account.

Once again, when we fact check your claims, they don't check out.

Shocker.

Keep reading what I post and perhaps you will eventually stop being a sheeple...one can only hope.

Dale....even you don't buy your bullshit. As when I specifically question you about the evidence, you try and change the topic. You lie about your sources. And your sources can't back a damn thing they say.

You're simply not prepared to deal with the evidence. You prefer your stupidly elaborate conspiracy fantasy to reality. And nothing can convince you. How do we know? You told us. You're mind is closed and you've committed to ignoring anything that contradicts your conspiracy fantasy.

I can show you the evidence, Dale. But I can't make you think.

Dude, I was just like you for over a 11 years......I demonized and marginalized anyone that dared to question our beloved "gubermint" concerning 9/11/01. I would Google and search for any piece of propaganda that I could use in a lame attempt to refute evidence and questions that I never bothered to look at because I didn't want my neat little neocon world turned upside down....so spare me the bullshit, m'kay? I took the blinders off and I went through some really bad times personally where I went from being outgoing and personable to being a total recluse and not wanting to interact with anyone. I became obsessed with finding the truth not only about 9/11 but other events that have shaped this corporation's hold over us and I have a very good grasp on how dire our situation is...... and it doesn't bode well for any of us as it currently stands. I no longer believe in political affiliations because it only serves to divide us and trust me, the ones that really pull the strings have created a number of ways to keep us divided and bickering among each other. You can throw out all the little diversions to your heart's content in hopes that I will stop posting about 9/11/01 but it's not gonna happen....read, learn, evolve. Things are not what you think they are and there is some really bad shit on the horizon unless there is a mass awakening.

ever notice how trolls like carla in denial can only post a funny when they cant counter facts?

That's because I'm busy right now, finding out whether Bob the Builder is demonic. What do you think?

 

[Carla_Danger]

The conspiracy version of events is wildly more complex, involving hundreds if not thousands of people in a perfect conspiracy that has never been broken, ever. The Pentagon had to be involved, the FBI would have to be in on it, Congrss would have to be in on it, explosives had to be planted, all the people on the plane who were lost, their families, the FAA, the local fire departments, the folks who died in the pentagon and their families, the radar records would have to be faked, the black boxes, all the evidence would have to be planted, reports faked...both inside the US government and outside it. As the ASCE did its own study of the impact and found it was perfectly consistent with a plane impact.

And then there all the people who saw the plane. This didn't happen in some remote location, but in broad daylight with Flight 77 flying over I-395 in the middle of a traffic jam. ALL of those witnesses would have to be faked as well.

All of them, tens of thousands of people, would have to be in the conspiracy, all with perfect secrecy for nearly 15 years and counting. And of course, without evidence of any of your conspiracy actually happening.

That's ludicrously complicated. Contradicted by overwhelming evidence. And without any credible factual basis. While a plane crashed into the building is far, far simpler and matches the evidence.

That's why folks don't buy the truther conspiracy. Its just a stupidly awful explanation of events.

I love how you decide what the conspiracy is, and how it worked for those who don't believe the official story. What a complete and total hoot.

Laughing.....wait, you *haven't* told us 'what the conspiracy is'?

Can I take it from that little blunder that your ilk don't handle criticism well? Because you ignored virtually every point made, pretending none of it existed. Yet it did. For your conspiracy to work, ALL of these people had to be in on it:

The FBI.
The first reponders. Both cops and fire fighters.
The US Military.
The Pentagon.
All the witnesses on I-395
The FAA.
The American Society of Civil Engineers.
All of the air traffic controllers at both Reagan and Dulles airports.
The NIST
American Airlines.
The people who died in the plane crash.
The families of those who died in the plane crash.
The people who died in the Pentagon.
The families of those who died in the Pentagon.
All the folks who planted the bombs in the Pentagon.

Thousands upon thousands of people just joining together spontaneously in the most stupidly complicated, wildly elaborate conspiracy in the history of mankind. Which they've maintained with perfect secrecy for almost 15 years.

OR....

........the plane just crashed into the Pentagon.

Occam's Razor and the evidence definitely picks a side. And its not yours. Your explanation is a piss poor, half assed account that makes no sense, is insanely complicated, is contradicted by overwhelming evidence, and supported by virtually nothing.

That. That right there, is why folks don't believe the silly Truther conspiracy. Its just stupidly awful at explaining what happened.

You ignored my last post, so I'll ignore this one.

I had no idea you were a twoofer.

If really comes down to a simple equation that has never really been sorted out.

Means, motive, and opportunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For me, the "terrorists" never really had much of these except for motive.

The folks that really did it though? They had all three. It's just that simple.

The folks that really did it.....rofl.

 

[Gamolon]

I noticed that you are silent about the cockpit door never being opened.
(PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled “FLT DECK DOOR”, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

Dale,

Do you ever look at ALL the available information regarding a claim? I looks to me like you research a given claim until you find something that supports your beliefs and then you stop there. Here is more information that I have found.

The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active and recorded on this model B757. Flight 77 was a B757-2 with "N" numbers, " of N644AA" indicating that it was built in late 1991, when this model was manufactured at Boeing. On this model the FDR did not record the state of this parameter in the FDR data, even though they left room for it and recorded this data later in the newer B757-3.

There is no indication that this model had ever been upgraded to a B757-3

The last 42 hours on the FDR data shows in fact no record of this function becoming active, meaning the door switch parameter had never been recorded as open on any of these flights even though this data covered 12 separate flights, again confirming that this FDR parameter was inoperative on this model of B757-2.

Democratic Underground - The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active - Democratic Underground

This was brought up to Rob Balsamo and he never addressed the issue as far as I can tell.

 

[Dale Smith]

Obviously they did outwit NORAD or NORAD stood down...take your pick.
North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) is responsible for monitoring our skies.The Continental NORAD Region (CONR) is the component of NORAD that provides airspace surveillance and control and directs air sovereignty activities for the Contiguous United States (CONUS).

And the activities that you insist NORAD was 'outsmarted' in was intercepting the hijacked planes. Yet EVERY Air Defense Intercept Zone on 911....was *outside* the United States. NORAD didn't monitor the location of planes in domestic airspace. NORAD's radar network is focused outward, toward incoming foreign warplanes. The only way NORAD knew that there was a hijacking is when the the FAA picked up a phone and told them. The FAA didn't notify NORAD of hijackings until AFTER the first tower had already been hit. And only a minute before the second tower was hit.

Making your 'outwitted NORAD' account nonsense. NORAD doesn't track domestic flights within the US. Nor would they have anyway of telling one plane from another if their transponders were turned off.

Which was the case in every plane used in the 911 attacks.

So why would NORAD have intercepted hijackings they didn't know about, planes they weren't tracking in airspace outside their Air Defense Intercept Zones? Your entire basis of assumption is nonsense.

No bodies of those on the plane were recovered....claimed that it only took them a couple of months to identify the alleged remains they recovered using DNA testing which is ludicrous to say the least. 184 out of 187 identified at a military base no less ...allegedly.

Says you. But when pressed to show us any source other than yourself that says this....you've got jack shit. Your entire argument is circular. Where you insist that there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon....because you insist there were no bodies pulled from the Pentagon.

Why would a rational person ignore the ACSE report which shows the location of the bodies, ignore the autospies, ignore the identification of the bodies? Especially when you've got *jack shit* to back up any portion of your account. You have no rational reason to ignore the evidence. You simply do.

And this is why the Truthers aren't taken seriously. Their *entire* argument is to ignore the evidence. And even they can't give you a rational reason why.

As far as Dr. Steve Piecneznik is concerned, he worked in intelligence and counter-intelligence with many, many reliable contacts. When I have heard him interviewed, whichever host is doing the interviewing always attaches his name to the CIA. His resume is more impressive than just being CIA and he has more credibility and knows more than you or I.

That's not what you said before. This was:

Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

And NO WHERE in your entire bio does it even mention the CIA. Let alone Dr. Steve working in the CIA for 30 years. You fucking lied.

Nor can Dr. Steve even *name* the 'top general' he claims 'told him how 911 was pulled off'. Let alone back any of it with evidence. There is no part of your account above that checks out. As for 'knowing more than the rest of us', Steve Pieczenik hadn't worked for the State department since the late 1980s. He has no direct access to any of the sources he claims to cite, nor can he show us any evidence backing any portion of his account.

Once again, when we fact check your claims, they don't check out.

Shocker.

Keep reading what I post and perhaps you will eventually stop being a sheeple...one can only hope.

Dale....even you don't buy your bullshit. As when I specifically question you about the evidence, you try and change the topic. You lie about your sources. And your sources can't back a damn thing they say.

You're simply not prepared to deal with the evidence. You prefer your stupidly elaborate conspiracy fantasy to reality. And nothing can convince you. How do we know? You told us. You're mind is closed and you've committed to ignoring anything that contradicts your conspiracy fantasy.

I can show you the evidence, Dale. But I can't make you think.

Dude, I was just like you for over a 11 years......I demonized and marginalized anyone that dared to question our beloved "gubermint" concerning 9/11/01. I would Google and search for any piece of propaganda that I could use in a lame attempt to refute evidence and questions that I never bothered to look at because I didn't want my neat little neocon world turned upside down....so spare me the bullshit, m'kay? I took the blinders off and I went through some really bad times personally where I went from being outgoing and personable to being a total recluse and not wanting to interact with anyone. I became obsessed with finding the truth not only about 9/11 but other events that have shaped this corporation's hold over us and I have a very good grasp on how dire our situation is...... and it doesn't bode well for any of us as it currently stands. I no longer believe in political affiliations because it only serves to divide us and trust me, the ones that really pull the strings have created a number of ways to keep us divided and bickering among each other. You can throw out all the little diversions to your heart's content in hopes that I will stop posting about 9/11/01 but it's not gonna happen....read, learn, evolve. Things are not what you think they are and there is some really bad shit on the horizon unless there is a mass awakening.

"Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination."

I wish that it were so and that I was just having a bad dream, but that is not the case. I have no "willful ignorance of the events" thing going on....I did at one time and was a co-sponsor of pushing the official story of this corporate "gubermint" because America is not a country, it is a corporation due to the Act of 1871. You are an indentured debt slave, a surety on the debt due to the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of USA.INC in March of 1933...we have all been duped. We toil three to four months a year for free to pay interest on a fiat currency that is created from credit on a computer screen...try coming to that realization that you have worked 1/3 of your life for free.....

"Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control"

I was very sure that we were being attacked by what I called "muslim sandniggers" and I used every prior attack of the muslims against the U.S on foreign shores to demonize them but I learned that they were false flag events as well. The first WTC bombing in 1993 was a false flag event and they tried to use an Egyptian muslim as a patsy but he outsmarted them and wore a wire. The OKC bombing in 1995 was a total orchestrated event by our "gubermint" trying to pin the blame on the militia movement. McVeigh had been "chipped' and was part of the special ops program and he was set up as the fall guy. They had charges set up on the 3rd and 6th floor columns. Seismic charts from Norman, Oklahoma show two distinct blasts 4.2 seconds apart. An ANFO bomb, especially using the type of ammonium nitrate could have not gutted the Murrah building...this was a false flag event to demonize gun owners and it led to the passage of a scaled down version of the Patriot Act that had been languishing in congress until OKC and it passed.

"Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists."

I don't fear shit but my eyes are wide open and I know that we have a corporate entity trying to pass it's self off as a legitimate governmental body that simply passes thousands of acts, statutes and codes...because corporations cannot pass laws.. That is w3hat we have the "Patriot Act", Healthcare Act, etc, etc.....they are not laws....get it now?

"Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting"

I beg to differ....when things are compartmentalized, people can be involved without even realizing that they were...and even if they figured out that they had played a part in a false flag event, who would believe them or print the story since 90 percent of our media is owned by 6 mega corporations that all have ties to the global elites that run our fiat currency system? Here is a tidbit of something I researched. Fox News gave some journalists "carte blanche " to do some hard hitting journalism and make a weekly segment out of it. Their first story was how Monsanto was behind the hormones being injected into cows in order for them to produce more milk, only problem was that it contained harmful chemical agents that would affect children. The story was killed because Fox said that it would affect their bottom line and would have to fend off the high priced lawyers that Monsanto had hired to keep the story under wraps. We do not have a free press anymore and anyone that speaks out will never be given a platform from which to speak and if they are able to get their story out there by the alternative media, they can count on being attacked by the bought and paid for corporate media in an attempt to discredit them. I will address the of your poorly written rebuttal later....got to get some rest so I can get some rest so I can get up and toil for the Fed bankers tht confiscate a third of my earnings...here is a healthy and hearty "FUCK YOU, YA CLUELESS ASSWIPE" sign off for now...I will be back later to further kick your "gubermint" loving ass...... (snicker)

We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public.

The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception.

Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination.

Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control.

As at least *someone* would be in control of everything. Even if you have to make them up.

Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists.

Or......maybe someone had a Big Mac.

Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting.

We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public.

The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception.

"Dude, you haven't evolved. You've adopted a fantasy that is based on desperate, willful ignorance of the events. You can't handle reality. You can't handle the evidence. So you concoct an elaborate fantasy populated by characters that you can control. As they're products of your imagination"

Au contraire, I just woke up as to what is really going on instead of spewing the official story for 11 years like I did. There wasn't a bigger denier than me. You are the one that seems to have the problem that reality isn't what you think it is. 9/11/01 is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all things this corporate government has down to it's human resources (us). I have seen more than enough evidence to convince me that I spewed ignorant insults at those that were trying to wake people up. Tonight I listened to an hour and a half long video of those that were there that day (and that includes fire fighters and civilians that heard numerous explosions. You can even see squibs as much as 10 floors below where the collapse is. Watch this video...I dare you.

"Dale, its not an uncommon thing for folks do. For some people, its hard to deal with the uncertainty and chaos of the real world. The idea that 19 guys could cause that much harm can be terrifying. And rather than acknowledge that vulnerability, rather than recognize that seeming randomness........folks like you would prefer that everything is actually under control. So they convince themselves of some elaborate conspiracies, where these events were all part of a ludicrously complicated plan by.....someone. Where every aspect of it was part of it was carefully calculated rather than out of our control."

No, I would actually feel better that 19 guys were able to sneak under the radar and commit those acts if the scenario was actually plausible and made sense but seven of these alleged "high-jackers" are still alive. Two 110 story buildings and a 47 story tall building fall due to fire but yet a passport of one of the alleged terrorists flutters to the ground and someone just happens to find it, finds someone in authority to give it to amid the chaos.....and YOU believe that shit? Do you believe in leprechauns as well?

"Dale.......you've emotionally invented in this fantasy for so long that now you're as committed to the fantasy as you were commited to running away from the fear. But rationally, objectively......you fantasy is an awful explanation of the events. Its like seeing a fast food wrapper in the garbage....and concluding that the only possible explanation for it is vastly advanced alien civilization that traveled to earth to place it there, using mind control technology to plant false memories to convince the entire planet that 'McDonands' actually exists."

That's pretty damn laughable because I was one just like you. I said that your beloved corporate "gubermint" would not need to cause such carnage if it wanted to cause a war in Iraq and Afghanistan so the heroin would flow back into the country. But like any good gubermint psy-op, there are a multitude of reasons as to how the global elites took advantage of this and it was definitely for monetary gain with the ability to water down our rights and privacy that we gave up with nary a whimper.

"Your explanation is stupidly awful. As bad as mind controlling aliens placing a McDonald's wrapper in the garbage. Worse, actually. As your conspiracy requires the spontaneous complicity of 10s of thousands of people working in perfect secrecy and maintaining that secrecy for 15 years and counting"

Nope, not at all as everything within this corporate structure is very compartmentalized. Those that are complicit are monitored because the NSA's power has expanded because of this attack...and whom would they contact within the lamestream media since the news is filtered and owned by 6 mega corporations??????? Think about it....

"We couldn't keep the secret of the nuclear bomb under wraps for that long. The US government is stupidly porous. We've seen from leak after leak, Snowdens and Mannings and Wikileaks, that we can't keep secrets that long. That our government lacks the competence to pull off the insanely complicated plot....let alone plan it and keep it secret for a decade and a half. Especially considering that most of it happened in open view of the public."

The Manhattan Project was kept under wraps long enough to allow the bombings of two cities in Japan to happen even though it wasn't even necessary to make them surrender.....fact.

"The evidence contradicting you is enormous. The holes in your logic, truck sized. And your claims don't make the slightest sense. Yet 'nothing can convince you', as you've already told us. Ignoring evidence and closing your mind isn't 'evolution, Dale. Its self deception"

You mean the official story sold to you by the bought and paid for mainstream media that pushed this false narrative....duly noted. Bring it own...........or surrender the thread because I am not going anywhere. Feel free to cast your aspersions and insults but at the end of the day? I know more than you....fact.

 

[Dale Smith]

I nominate Skylar to be the new forum psychiatrist.

Sky has certainly (and relentlessly) nailed poor Dale to the wall of CTBS he has posted and pathetically tried to defend.

Interestingly even his comrades on this thread have seen the damage their "Movement" has suffered and have abandoned both Dale and the thread.

Skylar has been on a killer whale kinda roll.

Coming from a "me too" troll that is nothing but a bug on the windshield of life" in my world that has a big ol bag of nothin'? I laugh loud and long at you....hope you enjoy the cyber pat on the head. (snicker)

 

[KissMy]

Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?

Yes I don't care about explaining if the steel were weakened, that can't explain how 18 floors would damage the rest of the building, do you have any idea how well desgined the WTC were? They could hold up the weight of 4 WTCs...Got that? The heat was only effecting floors 93 through 98.

So are you saying 18 floors became 440 floors worth of momentum in just 2 or so floors worth of falling?

If so, why didn't those 18 floors just break into pieces and fall to the side of the obviously MUCH STRONGER 92 floors beneath them that weren't weakened by jet fuel burning?

A sledge hammer hits with a force of 1,000 times it's weight.

 

[Dale Smith]

I noticed that you are silent about the cockpit door never being opened.
(PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled “FLT DECK DOOR”, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

Dale,

Do you ever look at ALL the available information regarding a claim? I looks to me like you research a given claim until you find something that supports your beliefs and then you stop there. Here is more information that I have found.

The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active and recorded on this model B757. Flight 77 was a B757-2 with "N" numbers, " of N644AA" indicating that it was built in late 1991, when this model was manufactured at Boeing. On this model the FDR did not record the state of this parameter in the FDR data, even though they left room for it and recorded this data later in the newer B757-3.

There is no indication that this model had ever been upgraded to a B757-3

The last 42 hours on the FDR data shows in fact no record of this function becoming active, meaning the door switch parameter had never been recorded as open on any of these flights even though this data covered 12 separate flights, again confirming that this FDR parameter was inoperative on this model of B757-2.

Democratic Underground - The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active - Democratic Underground

This was brought up to Rob Balsamo and he never addressed the issue as far as I can tell.

I used every piece of ammo , real or not to smack "truthers" around with great glee....I would pull up websites complete with "cut and paste" in an attempt to debunk their anti-Neo-con/PNAC theory so spare me....I was the master on busting on "truthers" and I had a huge following of people on the internet that looked to me to show them how to fend off the leftard clown posse of sniveling fools. I was a frigging "ICON"....no one could flame posters like I could. If planes actually hit the WTC 1 and 2, they were controlled by the drone control. The plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon was hit by a moron that couldn't even master the controls of a single engine Cessna....go sell your bullshit somewhere else....I have enough to deal with here.

 

[Dale Smith]

Did you read that the HEAT from all that jet fuel burning actually fatigued drastically the steel in the WTC?

Yes I don't care about explaining if the steel were weakened, that can't explain how 18 floors would damage the rest of the building, do you have any idea how well desgined the WTC were? They could hold up the weight of 4 WTCs...Got that? The heat was only effecting floors 93 through 98.

So are you saying 18 floors became 440 floors worth of momentum in just 2 or so floors worth of falling?

If so, why didn't those 18 floors just break into pieces and fall to the side of the obviously MUCH STRONGER 92 floors beneath them that weren't weakened by jet fuel burning?

A sledge hammer hits with a force of 1,000 times it's weight.

This alleged plane didn't "hammer down"......want to try again?

 

[MisterBeale]

What it comes down to Carla, is you have four planes hijacked, it supposedly took up to an half hour for some of the alleged terrorist to get into those cock pits, and not a single one of those eight pilots squaked the code?

On top of that, TV reports tell me all I need to know. . . .





When scientists themselves could not predict something that has never happened in the history of humanity and can still not explain how it happened w/o the use of explosives, yet the media predicts it before it happens, then you know something is rotten in the STATE.

Didn't you want to ask me about Naomi Wolf?

Yeah, I was going to, but then thought better of it. That line of reasoning would have gone no where. In progressive circles she is highly regarded, but if you do regard her very highly, it would be a pointless tangent, so I thought better of it. It's best to stick with the facts rather than an appeal to authority fallacy.